Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


Television

2,351 to 2,400 of 3,036 << first < prev | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | next > last >>
Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Varys was castrated by Red Priests, if I remember right. And his bits used in a fire spells? The ASOI&F wiki is a bit unclear if it was a Red Priest who lopped it off, but it fits with Mel's blood magic depictions with Eldric/Gendry and the Leeches.

The books are pretty clear, and the show has telegraphed it some, that Randyll Tarly is THE military power in the Reach. In the books it is mentioned a time or two that his forces sat out the War of the Five Kings, to guard the Reach, and is why after the War that the Tyrell's have such a large force leftover. As we saw last season with Randyll's bigotry toward Gilly and the Wildlings, defending against barbarian invaders is the only way he would move forward, banner allegiances be damned. With Tarly, and presumably other Tyrell bannermen who thought better, riding alongside the Kingslayer, they put themselves firmly in the defend the 7 Kingdoms from the Dothraki invaders camp.

Bronn was just there riding next to Randyll and Dickon behind Jaime in the assault. No lines, just some smirking from Ser Bronn of the Blackwater.


I think I would consider Cersei's death by seasons end as confirmed at this point. Consider a normal story arc for one season and there's always one or more identifiable "villain" who dominates a storyline through the mid-season episodes. Last year it was Ramsay in the north and the High Sparrow in King's Landing. Both of them were chalking up victories in numerous episodes and looked set to win out by season's end. Based on that pattern, Cersei is the dominant villain for this season. For a time she could be considered something of a protagonist, but not anymore.

Pan wrote:
Didnt Highgarden have a large army? Feels like the writers have been clearing the board hastily which helps lead to a finish but isnt very satisfying IMHO.

Name one character in Highgarden who had been introduced, but who's death scene you didn't get to see.

I agree it was a touch abrupt, but there really wasn't anything special going on there. There wasn't much at stake, and nothing notable to make it particularly "cool". The only point of the battle was for Olena to have a death scene.


archmagi1 wrote:


Bronn was just there riding next to Randyll and Dickon behind Jaime in the assault. No lines, just some smirking from Ser Bronn of the Blackwater.

I wouldn't have wanted it any other way. I'm still gonna rewatch.

Sovereign Court

Irontruth wrote:


Name one character in Highgarden who had been introduced, but who's death scene you didn't get to see.

I agree it was a touch abrupt, but there really wasn't anything special going on there. There wasn't much at stake, and nothing notable to make it particularly "cool". The only point of the battle was for Olena to have a death scene.

How about a narration by Jamie that explains step by step how Highgarden would fall over a couple of battle scenes to pair nicely with Casterly Rock sequence? Seemed like a missed opportunity to me.

Irontruth wrote:


I think I would consider Cersei's death by seasons end as confirmed at this point. Consider a normal story arc for one season and there's always one or more identifiable "villain" who dominates a storyline through the mid-season episodes. Last year it was Ramsay in the north and the High Sparrow in King's Landing. Both of them were chalking up victories in numerous episodes and looked set to win out by season's end. Based on that pattern, Cersei is the dominant villain for this season. For a time she could be considered something of a protagonist, but not anymore.

You may be right, but I hope you are not. The ol lady and I were talking about how disappointing it would be if the 7 kingdoms conflict is resolved this season and then all next season is night king.


GM Niles wrote:


I'd like to know what's up between Varys and Mel...somethings up.

Melisandre worships the lord of light

Vary's had some rather important parts of him sacrificed to a god (most likely the lord of light) when he was a child as part of a ritual. He hates all magic and her god in particular. It's why he turned against stannis.


I get what you guys are saying. But that scene seemed more...personal.

I enjoyed the performance by both actors in that scene. IMHO it was a highlight of the ep.

Sovereign Court

I imagine Varys has some type of respect for Mel allowing her to leave, but he clearly threatens her life upon return. Not surprising since she was pretty disruptive to the 7 kingdoms Varys is trying to put back together. He seems taken aback when MEl indicates she plans to return and expects to die. A religious person without fear can be very problematic.


Varys has little birds everywhere, presumably including the North. He often asks people questions when he already knows the answer and wants to hear them spin it, gaining insights into their thinking (and thus, how they might react). It's entirely possible he knows about Mel's sacrifices to the Lord of Light, and at least some of the details on how Stannis failed.

And yes, considering the trouble the High Sparrow and Faith Militant caused in King's Landing, Varys would be stupid to not be wary of Mel and other priests of R'hllor.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

So, the preview for episode 4 had someone unsheathing the valyrian steel dagger that promo pic Arya has as her offhand. What are the going odds that LF tries to gank somebody only for that somebody to be nobody and loses his face and dagger?


Quote:
Didn't Highgarden have a large army? Feels like the writers have been clearing the board hastily which helps lead to a finish but isnt very satisfying IMHO.

I think the scene in Episode 1 where Jaime "woos" Randyll Tarly and several other Reach lords was meant to suggest that a significant number of Tyrell bannermen went over to the Lannisters, who then took Highgarden by surprise before the loyalists could muster.

The TV show also has some wriggle room: Renly says that his army of 100,000 men is drawn from the Stormlands and Reach together, so with the Stormlands going over to Joffrey/Tommen/Cersei after the Blackwater, they can kind of say that the Tyrells no longer have the largest army and the Stormland forces are much larger than they are in the books (where they make up a pretty small part of Renly's force).

For anyone who's read the books and knows the size and disposition of the Tyrell armies compared to the (now massively inferior) Lannister forces, it feels a bit annoying and it's very simplistic, but that's the benefit of novels with a lot of thought put into them written over a long period of time (too long, in fact) versus a TV show written and made quickly on a budget.

My problem isn't that the situation isn't the same as the books, but internal consistency isn't followed (Renly's line from Season 2 about having 100,000 men has been ignored) and some fairly easy line fixes aren't used to avoid the problem. A lot of the Reach lords hating the Dornish and refusing to ally with them could have been brought up. Others having a fear of the Dothraki - the Reach being the kind of open, rich countryside the Dothraki would love to despoil - could also have worked as an excuse.

Finally, they could have had the Tyrell army linking up with the Martell one to besiege King's Landing and will now have to react to their leaders being offed.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
archmagi1 wrote:
So, the preview for episode 4 had someone unsheathing the valyrian steel dagger that promo pic Arya has as her offhand. What are the going odds that LF tries to gank somebody only for that somebody to be nobody and loses his face and dagger?

Arya still seems headed to Winterfell. Despite evidence to the contrary, Littlefinger still thinks he is always the smartest person in the room. It'd be funny delicious if he still thinks he can manipulate Sansa while Jon is away, and it turns out Arya (possibly with an assist from Bran's sight) shanks him for it.

Doubly so if acting QueenODaNorf! Sansa orders it done.

Triply so if it's with that dagger, which Littlefinger loaned out for the attempted assassination of Bran back in season 1.


Werthead wrote:
Quote:
Didn't Highgarden have a large army? Feels like the writers have been clearing the board hastily which helps lead to a finish but isnt very satisfying IMHO.

I think the scene in Episode 1 where Jaime "woos" Randyll Tarly and several other Reach lords was meant to suggest that a significant number of Tyrell bannermen went over to the Lannisters, who then took Highgarden by surprise before the loyalists could muster.

The TV show also has some wriggle room: Renly says that his army of 100,000 men is drawn from the Stormlands and Reach together, so with the Stormlands going over to Joffrey/Tommen/Cersei after the Blackwater, they can kind of say that the Tyrells no longer have the largest army and the Stormland forces are much larger than they are in the books (where they make up a pretty small part of Renly's force).

For anyone who's read the books and knows the size and disposition of the Tyrell armies compared to the (now massively inferior) Lannister forces, it feels a bit annoying and it's very simplistic, but that's the benefit of novels with a lot of thought put into them written over a long period of time (too long, in fact) versus a TV show written and made quickly on a budget.

My problem isn't that the situation isn't the same as the books, but internal consistency isn't followed (Renly's line from Season 2 about having 100,000 men has been ignored) and some fairly easy line fixes aren't used to avoid the problem. A lot of the Reach lords hating the Dornish and refusing to ally with them could have been brought up. Others having a fear of the Dothraki - the Reach being the kind of open, rich countryside the Dothraki would love to despoil - could also have worked as an excuse.

Finally, they could have had the Tyrell army linking up with the Martell one to besiege King's Landing and will now have to react to their leaders being offed.

All of that takes up screen time. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but you're going to need several lines before and after to build context and link ideas together. The episode as it was was incredibly tight. The only scenes you could have taken from were Dany/Jon scenes, and those really needed the time they had to play out and deliver. Almost everything else was short and to the point, even something as momentous as Bran returning to Winterfell was just a couple of moments.

Messing with runtime is a big deal. They're going to do it a few times, but it can throw their entire scheduling synchronicity off when re-airing episodes, which is still a thing. I don't know if it's purely out of habit, or if they want shows to be able to be broadcast, but even netflix shows hit consistent runtimes.

I also wouldn't take anything Renly said as gospel. The man wasn't exactly prone to being cautious with his statements. If you have 80,000 men, you might as well say 100,000, because the extra digit sounds more impressive. Not like your opponent is going to take the time to count.

Just like everyone seems to have a fleet of 1,000 ships, but we only ever see like 100.


Pan wrote:


You may be right, but I hope you are not. The ol lady and I were talking about how disappointing it would be if the 7 kingdoms conflict is resolved this season and then all next season is night king.

I think the Night King will actually be fairly interesting. I suspect we'll actually get to see a lot of flashbacks with Bran. Plus, while the war is being lost to the Night King, you get the long retreat south and all sorts of shenanigans happening with a mass exodus of people.

I haven't found Cersei interesting for a while, though now that she's full Romulan, I'm entertained again. That said, right now the interesting thing is her methods of revenge to those who have wronged her. That's going to get boring as the misdeeds she's punishing get smaller and smaller. "You overcooked my food last week, now I will overcook you!"

Honestly, the list of people for Cersei to kill meaningfully is pretty small at this point, and several of them seem unlikely.
Tyrion
Sansa
Dany
Euron
Jon
Arya
Varys
Littlefinger

Tyrion would be a ballsy move on the writer's part. I wouldn't rule it out as it would remind people that no one has plot immunity, and once the politics is done, he has less to contribute to the story except for witty remarks (which would still be nice for the show).

Sansa seems a little out of reach right now. Not impossible, but unlikely.

Dany would also be a massive thing to do. I think she does have plot immunity, but you never know. As far as deaths go, this would certainly cause a lot of rage from viewers temporarily, but everyone would be glued to the next episode to see what happens. Plus for someone this important, death no longer needs to be the end (Melisandre returns and gives up her life to bring Dany back?).

Euron will get his at some point. Cersei could certainly betray him to avoid having to deal with him as a husband. Wouldn't be the first time.

Jon, basically the same paragraph as Dany.

Arya, possible, but there's nothing that Cersei is avenging right now. Unless Arya's role in killing the Frey's or someone else important is revealed to Cersei, it's not revenge, it's just finishing the job she started several years ago.

Jaime is possible if he tries to oppose her and fails. Something I haven't actually considered until this moment. What if he tries to kill Cersei but fails? She gives him a sad look, then orders Ser Gregor to kill him. This is actually going on my list of things that could very conceivably happen. It also clears the way for someone else to kill Cersei.

Varys would be revenge for him aiding the dwarf and abandoning the kingdom. I guess the audience impact from him dying could be enough to arrange it, but it's not like she has even mentioned him in several seasons.

Littlefinger, he might return to King's Landing, but with the scene last episode it seems unlikely that he's going to leave Sansa's side unless forced to. If she did kill him, she'll call him an unimportant man and have him killed brutally, quickly and tossed aside like garbage.

After that we get to someone like Theon, Davos, Melisandre, Gendry, Bronn, Samwell, etc. People that are important to the story, but have no direct connection, circuitous indirect connections, or are just too minor of a character for Cersei to care about killing them.

If a character all of a sudden starts appearing in Cersei's conversations, I'd pencil them in for a possible death, but I don't see a lot of good revenge scenes left for her outside of these possibilities.

Cersei's going to kill a dragon in battle (or rather have it killed), then the biggest thing she can do is die. Stretching her rule as queen out to a second season doesn't seem likely to me.

Dark Archive

Cersei killing Jamie would make Tyrell's last words that 'she'll be the death of you' somewhat prophetic.

Hey, how about Rikon? Is he still alive, somewhere? Possibly with Gendry, hiding out on the island of ****** and beer?

I'd pay good money for Sansa to be the one who kills Littlefinger. It's about the only thing that would redeem her, in my eyes. I hold a grudge with both hands, and I still haven't forgiven her for siding with Geoffrey's version of events back in season one. :)

I've also totally lost track of the dire wolves. I know Sansa's wolf Lady is dead, and Arya's wolf Nymeria is leading her own pack, and Robb's wolf was discombobulated, but I have no idea what happened to Bran's wolf, Rikon's 'Shaggydog' or Jon's 'Ghost.'

As is hardly surprisingly for me, I'm more concerned with what's happening to the dire wolves, giants and dragons.

Paizo Employee Developer

Set wrote:

Cersei killing Jamie would make Tyrell's last words that 'she'll be the death of you' somewhat prophetic.

Hey, how about Rikon? Is he still alive, somewhere? Possibly with Gendry, hiding out on the island of ****** and beer?

I've also totally lost track of the dire wolves. I know Sansa's wolf Lady is dead, and Arya's wolf Nymeria is leading her own pack, and Robb's wolf was discombobulated, but I have no idea what happened to Bran's wolf, Rikon's 'Shaggydog' or Jon's 'Ghost.'

The prophecy given to Cersei as a child was that her brother would kill her, so I think it might be the other way around. Would Jamie kill Cersei in self-defense? I'm starting to think more and more that he would. Their bond has certainly been strained.

As for Rickon, he got a Ramsay arrow (well, several) through him at the start of the Battle of the Bastards.

Lady, Gray Wind, Shaggydog, and Summer are all dead, and died on-screen (or their corpses were seen on screen). Nymeria and Ghost are the only ones left, and Ghost is the only one still with his human (at Winterfell, so not actually with him as of the current episode).


I really wouldn't miss Dany. She is doing the same 'I am duh Qweuun!' thing when she was across the sea and still is doign the crazy be nice/be crazy thing. Burning KL to the ground would have been the best move since Jaime said it himself 'When people look at the peace built, do you think they will really care how it was done'?

Sovereign Court

Irontruth wrote:

Littlefinger, he might return to King's Landing, but with the scene last episode it seems unlikely that he's going to leave Sansa's side unless forced to. If she did kill him, she'll call him an unimportant man and have him killed brutally, quickly and tossed aside like garbage.

Might as well the writers been treating littlefinger like garbage for seasons now.


Pan wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

Littlefinger, he might return to King's Landing, but with the scene last episode it seems unlikely that he's going to leave Sansa's side unless forced to. If she did kill him, she'll call him an unimportant man and have him killed brutally, quickly and tossed aside like garbage.

Might as well the writers been treating littlefinger like garbage for seasons now.

He'll have something up his sleeve for this season. He'd make a good human villain for season 8, after Cersei's departure too.


Pan wrote:


Might as well the writers been treating littlefinger like garbage for seasons now.

How do you figure?


Happy to see this episode that Cersei hasn't lost her touch for creative eeeevil. What worse punishment could be inflicted on a mother?


After the Frey Thumb Pie (didn't brown the butter though) Serving Wench last season, I feel like Change the Sheets Chambermaid might look a little like Arya wearing a false face. At the door to Cersei's bedchamber.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Moreland wrote:
Set wrote:

Cersei killing Jamie would make Tyrell's last words that 'she'll be the death of you' somewhat prophetic.

The prophecy given to Cersei as a child was that her brother would kill her, so I think it might be the other way around. Would Jamie kill Cersei in self-defense? I'm starting to think more and more that he would. Their bond has certainly been strained.

.

Lately, Cersei has certainly been acting more evil with little concern for Jaime:
  • blowing up the Great Sept and everyone in it, innocents included, with wildfire,
  • telling Jaime that now-dead Tommen betrayed her,
  • openly courting Euron who freely mocks Jaime without any rebuke from Cersei,
  • torturing Ellaria and Tyene not unlike how Mad King Aerys tortured Brandon and Rickard Stark,
  • disregarding that word of their relationship is becoming increasingly public.
Now Jaime also knows the truth of Joffrey's poisoning, and Tyrion's (and Sansa's) innocence... and Cersei will likely regret none of her hateful actions against Tyrion.

It certainly seems Jaime is being positioned to again live up to his Kingslayer (Queenslayer) title and fulfill the valonqar prophecy, but what's his breaking point? If King's Landing had proof of the Night King's army and The Wall had fallen (or was circumvented), I suspect Cersei would happily let hundreds of thousands of the kingdom's innocents die if it meant some of her enemies died too. Even then, I'm not sure Jaime would kill her, but merely abandon her.

Maggy, in A Feast for Crows wrote:
And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar ("little brother") shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

Speculation:

Could it be a double-fake, and Tyrion actually be the prophesied one the kills her after all?

Could it be another "little brother"? The prophecy doesn't specify it will be Cersei's little brother?

Valonqar is from High Valyrian; could it be a gender-neutral term, like the "the prince that was promised", and thus possibly a younger sister?

Before this season started, I was hoping for a long shot: that Bran would warg into Ser Strong and choke Cersei. But now I'm hoping Jaime doesn't redeem himself, he's killed, and Arya kills Cersei wearing Jaime's face.


Ambrosia Slaad wrote:


It certainly seems Jaime is being positioned to again live up to his Kingslayer (Queenslayer) title

Jamie Lannister: Queen S/Layer (tm)


Oh, and technically, the valonqar can basically be anyone. Nearly zero of the surviving important characters are a) firstborn children or b) only children. A few people we don't know (like Melisandre, Varys, Bronn, Edd Tollett are examples) if they have siblings and what their birth order might be.

The list of people ruled out by the prophecy is shorter than those who are eligible. Jon Snow, Brienne, and Ser Gregor are ruled out, probably Jorah Mormont as well (not certain he's eldest child, certainly eldest son).

Of course, no one said the prophecy HAS to come true either. They've already introduced the idea of doubting prophecy in season 6.


I suspect that the Dorathaki are next on the chopping block. The Dorathaki are raiders who sweep in to get slaves and plunder and so are no doubt going to fair poorly against Lannister pikemen and archers. I suspect the Flying Dorathaki are going to try to vault over the lines and get cut down by a second rank of swordsmen. This will no doubt have Dany release a dragon and after some flambe'd soldiers the ballista will be used and kill a dragon. This will be the episode cliffhanger.


I stubbornly maintain that Cersei isn't as smart as she thinks she is, but I have to concede she's apparently smarter than I (or her father) thought she was.

Even so, I'm not sure how everything is suddenly going her way. Euron's fleet comes out of nowhere, takes Yara's fleet entirely by surprise and wipes out 99% of her forces in a single clash; Jamie takes the Tyrell forces -- which IIRC include the largest army in Westeros? -- without breaking a sweat.

The one part of their success I do get is Jamie outmaneuvering Tyrion at Casterly Rock. The Battle of Blackwater Bay notwithstanding, Tyrion's undeniable intelligence was never much bent to military strategy. Jaime would have lived military strategy in the field.

Meanwhile, Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, the Unburnt, and Mother of Dragons has accomplished only the capture of an under defended keep already emptied of anything useful.

Why is this contest proving to be so uneven? If Cersei comes out on top, it'll feel like Trump winning all over again. (True, there are all those rumors that Daenerys had her private male servants release classified information via ravens...)

To be clear, I see no chance of a happy ending for Cersei. But her downfall could come after preventing Dany from claiming the Iron Throne.


I suspect a sudden save like Dario coming in with a fleet he gathered after disobeying Dany and attackign with his troops.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Damon Griffin wrote:

I stubbornly maintain that Cersei isn't as smart as she thinks she is, but I have to concede she's apparently smarter than I (or her father) thought she was.

Even so, I'm not sure how everything is suddenly going her way.

At least some of this is reading like fanfic written by Cersei herself (or her reverential handmaiden).

I'm particularly annoyed by Ellaria, or whatever her name is. She killed her brother-in-law (and ruler of her entire country) because he wasn't properly Dornish enough, and by 'Dornish' she meant ruthless and vindictive and mean as a wasp, and then she loses and ends up sobbing in Cersei's clutches, instead of being defiant to the end. I know that it's realistic that someone facing the death of their last child in front of their eyes would react the way she did, but not *this woman.* It's totally out of character for her, and she's reacting exactly like *Cersei would want her to.* (Which is were feeling like it's fanfic written by Cersei comes in.)

That bugged me.

Ellaria knew from the start that this vendetta of hers would end with either herself or Cersei losing everything to the machinations of the other and she did it anyway.

I'm reminded of the restrained fury in Cersei's eyes when she was shame-walked through the citadel. Every step, she was plotting her revenge. Not only did she not break, she got harder and stronger and more resolved. Cersei's proven herself to actually *be* the sort of ruthlessly (irrationally...) vindictive person Ellaria Sand *claimed* to be (and was willing to hypocritically kill her own lord for not being!). Blah, blah, blah, goes Ellaria about being Dornish, and what it means to be Dornish, and, at the end of the 'Game,' Cersei's more 'Dornish' than she ever was.

At least Olenna Tyrell seemed to understand how the game worked. She glugged her poison with determination, and then delivered a last poison barb of her own. It's all terribly wasteful, and none of these are admirable people, in general, but Olenna did not disappoint me on the way out, remaining true to her convictions.

On the upside, there's gonna be a whole lot of room for new noble families to arise, if anyone survives the winter. The Freys are gone. The Tyrells are gone. The Boltons are gone. The Baratheons are gone (unless Gendry turns back up). The Lannisters may well be gone, soon enough.

Plus all the dead from the wars, which must number in the thousands (Robb Stark wiped out a bunch of Lannister troops, the Lannisters wiped out a bunch of Tyrell troops, Bolton killed a bunch of assorted Notherners). There's got to be a ton of open land and abandoned farms and villages for the Dothraki, Unsullied and / or Wildlings to settle.

Not that I picture the Dothraki or Wildlings taking up farming... :)

The Exchange

i keep wondering if everyone stopped fighting and marched to the wall right away, could they hold? than, we see another 1000 die and be, they are killing themselves.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Damon Griffin wrote:

I stubbornly maintain that Cersei isn't as smart as she thinks she is, but I have to concede she's apparently smarter than I (or her father) thought she was.

Even so, I'm not sure how everything is suddenly going her way. Euron's fleet comes out of nowhere, takes Yara's fleet entirely by surprise and wipes out 99% of her forces in a single clash; Jamie takes the Tyrell forces -- which IIRC include the largest army in Westeros? -- without breaking a sweat.

The one part of their success I do get is Jamie outmaneuvering Tyrion at Casterly Rock. The Battle of Blackwater Bay notwithstanding, Tyrion's undeniable intelligence was never much bent to military strategy. Jaime would have lived military strategy in the field.

Meanwhile, Daenerys Stormborn of the House Targaryen, First of Her Name, Queen of Meereen, Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Breaker of Chains, the Unburnt, and Mother of Dragons has accomplished only the capture of an under defended keep already emptied of anything useful.

Why is this contest proving to be so uneven? If Cersei comes out on top, it'll feel like Trump winning all over again. (True, there are all those rumors that Daenerys had her private male servants release classified information via ravens...)

To be clear, I see no chance of a happy ending for Cersei. But her downfall could come after preventing Dany from claiming the Iron Throne.

There are two reasons it's playing out this way.

1) It's a story.

Now that the writers are ahead of the books, they're treating each season as a sort of compressed story within the overall story of the show. The season is a multi-act movie, you could use the 3 act, or 5 act structure to kind of understand the flow. Episode 1 (and part of 2) is our first act, it is relatively calm as it sets the stage and reminds us who the characters are and where they are. Episode 3-5 is going to to be the rising action. Things are going to get worse and worse for our protagonist (in this thread it's Dany). Episode 6 will have the climax where the protagonist is forced to make their most dramatic choice/action and show the consequences of that. Episode 7 is the falling action and denouement, a secondary climax that pushes towards complete resolution. Of course because this isn't the last season, the denouement will also be part of how season 8 is set up.

Right now, Cersei is the villain. Her plans are successful, because she is the obstacle that Dany has to overcome. Dany had a plan to take over Westeros easily and without a lot of bloodshed. This is slowly falling apart and backing Dany into a metaphorical corner where she has to do something drastic. In a typical story, she'll do this soon, but not quite yet, and it will succeed. Of course with GoT, someone we don't expect to die will probably also die.

2) In fiction logic does work out some.

Dany started off with a very conservative plan based around Tyrion's cleverness. It's a plan that tried to risk little. In her attempt to guarantee her advantage, she was playing to not lose. Cersei is taking a much bolder approach, being far more proactive and actually going straight after Dany's strengths to eliminate them. She isn't going at Dany's biggest strength, but she's taking out the ones she knows she can handle.

3) I think your conclusion has some truth to it.

I think Dany will sit the Iron Throne, but Cersei is going to exact a very high price from her to do it. We're talking Sept of Baelor high price (maybe not in numbers, but shock value).

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

After the long night, Edmure Tully s daughter marries Robin Arryn, as the last two great families south of the neck, and become the new monarchs. The mid level Gentry is all shuffled up and Ser Bronn of the Blackwater become the new warden of the west.


Damon Griffin wrote:

I stubbornly maintain that Cersei isn't as smart as she thinks she is, but I have to concede she's apparently smarter than I (or her father) thought she was.

Even so, I'm not sure how everything is suddenly going her way. Euron's fleet comes out of nowhere, takes Yara's fleet entirely by surprise and wipes out 99% of her forces in a single clash; Jamie takes the Tyrell forces -- which IIRC include the largest army in Westeros? -- without breaking a sweat.

Euron running right into the other fleet is duex ex, but neither the lanister fake out or the Tyrel takedown are.

Casterly rock being empty of gold has been lying as a plot point for a few seasons now, and I'm pretty sure Tyrion doesn't know that part. Jamie learning his lessons the hard way from rob stark makes sense, and his target was forshadowed in episode 1 of the season. The Tyrels fell over so easily because at least half of them were with Tarley and that was the half that knew how to fight. Toss in an entire lanister army with half of your own troops and you're borked.

Quote:
Why is this contest proving to be so uneven?

It has to feel like a fight and the good guys have 3 flying tac nukes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The thing that gets me is that in the books, Cersei is portrayed as a reactionary fool. Varys kills off Kevan because he was preventing Cersei from making stupid decisions.

Not a big fan of the retrofit for the TV show. They had to do it to provide some drama, but really at this point westros shoudl have been a cakewalk for Dany if she choose a pure aggression stance.


Some talk on othe rplaces says maybe Dany should have delayed or abandoned dragonstone and go after The Iron Islands and/or settle elsewhere. With the potential for Euron to get his ships sunk she would have full control of the seas.

Plus her wanting to be liked is a real hindrance. Olanna was right on how Dany should go for the throat and seize better locations and start dragon flybys on those who won't swear loyalty/bend the knee. Iron Bak problems? Tell them if they back Cersei, she will go back across the ocean and melt them. If they back her, she will take on all the debts.

Full post:

But really, the best strategic move for Daenerys would probably have been to ignore Dragonstone, move the Unsullied and Dothraki to Dorne or the Reach, then sail up and take the Iron Islands and try to force a confrontation with Euron's fleet. If Euron and his fleet sunk, or if most of the captains just desert to Yara now that she's shown up with a big enough force, there would be nothing to challenge Daenerys' fleet on the sea. After this she could have taken Casterly Rock and installed Tyrion as lord there. Any of the Lannister bannermen who stay loyal to Cersei, you turn their castles into the next Harrenhall. Those that swear fealty to Tyrion and Daenerys get rewarded with the lands of those that would not bend the knee. If any of the Tyrell bannermen get any ideas about joining Cersei, you do the same to them. Make sure all the soldiers in Jaime's army knows that if they desert they can just go home, they don't have to keep fighting (unless they want to) but if they stay with Jaime's army they will be burned or eaten by dragons. If necessary then work over the lords of the Stormlands the same way. Anyone willing to swear fealty to Daeny will be rewarded with land taken from those that oppose her. And let the Iron bank know that if they decide to lend Cersei money, Daeny will sail over with her ships and her dragons and melt the Iron bank, but if they do not help Cersei, Daeny will take over the debts of the crown incurred under Robert, Joffrey and Tommen and eventually pay them back. After that there shouldn't be anywhere left backing Cersei, then you can just besiege King's Landing and starve the city out.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
It has to feel like a fight and the good guys have 3 flying tac nukes.

1. We've already seen that the dragons aren't invulnerable, and Qyburn's ballistas could easily turn them into a non-factor. I'd wager at the very least Drogon gets injured enough to retreat, while I don't give the other two much chance of survival.

2. Is Danny really the "good guy"? She's fairly decent at conquering (although that luck finally seems to have run out for her)....but she's shown herself to be completely inept at actually RULING.

3. Even if Danny is the "good guy"....if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

Cersei for the temporary victory, White Walkers to finish out the series by killing EVERYONE.

(Except Arya, because Martin's wife threatened to leave him if she died.)

:D


1. We've already seen that the dragons aren't invulnerable, and Qyburn's ballistas could easily turn them into a non-factor. I'd wager at the very least Drogon gets injured enough to retreat, while I don't give the other two much chance of survival.

The Heroes have to fight uphill. Not just on an even keel.

2. Is Danny really the "good guy"? She's fairly decent at conquering (although that luck finally seems to have run out for her)....but she's shown herself to be completely inept at actually RULING.

I don't think she has. She's just setting the DCs off the charts by telling very evil people "hey you need to stop being evil now"

Her narrative role is definitely as the protagonis though

3. Even if Danny is the "good guy"....if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

Cersei for the temporary victory, White Walkers to finish out the series by killing EVERYONE.

Nah, Danny winning and THEN white walkers everyone dies is more juxtaposition between high and low, rather than low and lower.


I think the ballistas are going to be played up as a threat but be completely useless in an actual dragon attack. I just don't see them being effective against a fast moving well armored dragon who can take them out with one sufficient blast of breath weapon

I would be far more worried about wight giants with longbows if I was Dany....


I suspect that there will be multiple ballistas firing a wave of bolts. Perhaps using the boats as bait, dragon pauses in the air to burn a boat and that is when they fire.

Sovereign Court

Yeah if they only make one ballista I'm gonna be pissed.


Hama wrote:
Yeah if they only make one ballista I'm gonna be pissed.

I will allow scenes with ballistas on a 1:1 ratio with scenes with dire wolves.

MMCJawa wrote:

I think the ballistas are going to be played up as a threat but be completely useless in an actual dragon attack. I just don't see them being effective against a fast moving well armored dragon who can take them out with one sufficient blast of breath weapon

I would be far more worried about wight giants with longbows if I was Dany....

^ ^ THIS ^ ^

No matter how awesome (or lacking) the ballistas are going to be against dragons, I'll bet hard currency that the Night King has at least one bigger badasser weapon we haven't seen yet. Ice spiders? Undead Summer/dire wolf? Undead wyvern? Maybe even

Spoiler:
an undead/ice dragon? What an epic "Oh Sh*t!" moment that would be if Daenerys and Drogon fall at the end of the season, only to be rezzed as undead ice Others/wights.


I've spent about a year of my life at sea and have covered a distance roughly twice that of the Earth's circumference. I would have been more shocked if Euron hadn't found the fleet.


MMCJawa wrote:

I think the ballistas are going to be played up as a threat but be completely useless in an actual dragon attack. I just don't see them being effective against a fast moving well armored dragon who can take them out with one sufficient blast of breath weapon

I would be far more worried about wight giants with longbows if I was Dany....

Far too big of a Chekov's Gun. Remember Drogon took several javelins in the fighting pits in Mereen. It would be the perfect episode ender to have one taken out. I wouldn't be surprised if Dragonstone gets sieged.


I'd put money on Drogon being killed by ballistae. Seems like that would have the biggest shock value (for Dany, if not necessarily the audience.) And if we're out to hurt Dany in every possible way until the end of the season...


I think one of the other two dragons since they aren't as important as Drogon

Dark Archive

It's entirely possible that Dany would be riding Drogon, during the first use of the ballistae against the dragons.

Which leads to two interesting possibilities (and several other less interesting ones);

One (or both) of the other dragons gets kacked, and Drogon flips out and disobeys Dany and starts strafing the ballistae nests, risking her life along with his own for lots of tension.

Drogon is hit and goes down (over the water), leading to everyone watching thinking that Dany is dead, too. (She'll be picked up, hopefully not by Euron..., or wash up on a beach full of burnt ship fragments and drowned sailors, or whatever. False alarm, but one hell of a cliffhanger.)


MannyGoblin wrote:
I think one of the other two dragons since they aren't as important as Drogon

Exactly why i think it will be him.

The ballista test Cersei was shown punched through the skull of a Very Large* Dragon. I would imagine that's foreshadowing for taking down the biggest one remaining.

*A general term, not a Pathfinder size category.

Dark Archive

Damon Griffin wrote:
MannyGoblin wrote:
I think one of the other two dragons since they aren't as important as Drogon
Exactly why i think it will be him.

Yeah, no reason, narratively, to kill off one of the dragons that isn't Drogon, since many fans don't even remember their names. Go for the one that will have the most impact, not 'Aw, I kind of liked what's-his-name). :)


I got a little mad at Sam. I would have liked him to help connect some dots for Jorah, who would then connect them for Tyrion and Dany.

"I've heard you've seen dragons. Considering the things I've seen, I believe you."


One of the dragons is wearing a red shirt...


Huh. So they did have a few archers.

2,351 to 2,400 of 3,036 << first < prev | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Gamer Life / Entertainment / Television / Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.