Pathfinder Player Core

The Painted Oryx wrote:

Demonskunk wrote:

Woah, $60 per book, and you need at least THREE of them!?

$180 is a BIG ASK for the bare basics you need to play the dang game.

All the rules are available for free on Archives of Nethys! So you really don't need to spend any money. $60 for a beautifully illustrated hardcover book is perfectly reasonable I think!

Like, you're not wrong, but I'm still upset.

P2.0

$210

P2.1
Player Core $60
Player Core 2 $60
GM Core $60
Monster Core $60

$240

That's without getting into the other expansions added and reworked like Treasure Vault.

Has there been any word on if casters will be getting a feat at 1st level?

If that change is made, it might be possible to make dedications 1st level feats so 2nd level "dedication tax" doesn't feel quite so bad for dedications with underwhelming benefits.

I wonder what they're going to do with the seven classes that aren't in the two "Player Core" books: Gunslinger, Inventor, Kineticist (been waiting for this one!), Magus (my favorite!), Psychic, Summoner, Thaumaturge.

"Advanced Player Guide 2" maybe?

I wonder what they're going to do with the seven classes that aren't in the two "Player Core" books: Gunslinger, Inventor, Kineticist (been waiting for this one!), Magus (my favorite!), Psychic, Summoner, Thaumaturge.

"Advanced Player Guide 2" maybe?

I have the same question. On the blog, they mention Player Core 3. I could see that all this classes are remastered in a book af this type, and I will be happy with this. Maybe with some more Ancestries, like the Automaton or the Varanas, etc.

And I'm curious about the Geniekin and the Nephilim. For me, it's obvious that Aasimar and Tiefling are going to be part of the Nephilim. I'm 50/50 with the Ganzi and the Aphorites being under the same umbrella (I would like it a lot). I'm just curious if the Planar outsiders are going to fall under the same Nephilim or are they going to maintain their independence as a broad category.

I wonder what they're going to do with the seven classes that aren't in the two "Player Core" books: Gunslinger, Inventor, Kineticist (been waiting for this one!), Magus (my favorite!), Psychic, Summoner, Thaumaturge.

"Advanced Player Guide 2" maybe?

Erik Mona and Jason Bulmahn/Logan Bonner all confirmed Rage of Elements will already be adjusted for the new Core books, and will have an online document to help people see the changes (since RoE comes out before Player Core 1 and GM Core). So the Kineticist will be fully compatible right out of the gate.

Erik Mona also confirmed that SoM, G&G and DA are all going to continue being printed for the foreseeable future. Only CRB/GMG/B1/APG will be phased out and replaced by the new Core books. Even the possible Monster Core 2 book will be treated as a side project in the future.

It will be weird to have Player Core 3 with Inventor and Gunslinger (and other classes), but likely very little space to put all the guns n' gears stuff in it.

I would hope that they would put a drow heritage in this for the elf.

Will we be getting new iconics?

No mention of a PDF price.... Please tell me the only way to get a PDF wont be the subscription???

Very hyped for this! :D

Demonskunk wrote:

The Painted Oryx wrote:

Demonskunk wrote:

Woah, $60 per book, and you need at least THREE of them!?

$180 is a BIG ASK for the bare basics you need to play the dang game.

All the rules are available for free on Archives of Nethys! So you really don't need to spend any money. $60 for a beautifully illustrated hardcover book is perfectly reasonable I think!

Like, you're not wrong, but I'm still upset.

P2.0

Core Rulebook $60
Gamemastery Guide $50
Advanced Player's Guide $50
Bestiary 1 $50

$210

P2.1
Player Core $60
Player Core 2 $60
GM Core $60
Monster Core $60

$240

That's without getting into the other expansions added and reworked like Treasure Vault.

All of the new Remaster Core books will be getting pocket editions at least (albeit a few months after the hardbacks), plus the cheaper PDF and entirely free online SRD options.

I think they even mentioned offhandedly the possibility of a Remaster Humble Bundle eventually, but that's probably a late 2023 prospect at the absolute earliest.

Will we be getting new iconics?

Nope.

No mention of a PDF price.... Please tell me the only way to get a PDF wont be the subscription???

They’ve never done this for any of their books and they haven’t stated they intend to change that going forward.

Will the Bard and Druid subclasses be updated to be a little more fleshed out so Order Explorer/Multifarious Muse doesn't almost fully replicate having those subclasses?

For example, a Wild Order Druid could cast a spell once per Wild Shape, and this ability couldn't be gained via Order Explorer.

I would hope that they would put a drow heritage in this for the elf.

Will we be getting new iconics?

Ideally, this is the time to ditch "drow" entirely, but at the very least, They will probably change the name.

And they also announced special hardcover editions with sketches on the covers that will only be available in brick and mortar stores for the first 120 days and only a small amount held over for sale by them online after that. That's pretty cool.

I was honestly going to pass on these as I don't really need them but then I saw it's the first book published under their new ORC license.

Well played, Paizo.

And I'm curious about the Geniekin and the Nephilim. For me, it's obvious that Aasimar and Tiefling are going to be part of the Nephilim. I'm 50/50 with the Ganzi and the Aphorites being under the same umbrella (I would like it a lot). I'm just curious if the Planar outsiders are going to fall under the same Nephilim or are they going to maintain their independence as a broad category.

I'm going to be very interested to see how Paizo handles the origin story for the Nephilim. In the original Hebrew mythology, they were "giants" or "sons of fallen angels". The etymology is "precarious" as one writer described it. Here in Golarion, tying in several different creatures (Aasimar, Tiefling, etc.) will make for an interesting tale. :-)

Nevynxxx wrote:

No mention of a PDF price.... Please tell me the only way to get a PDF wont be the subscription???

They’ve never done this for any of their books and they haven’t stated they intend to change that going forward.

They never list PDFs for upcoming products, as PDFs can't be pre-ordered. Compare the product page for Rage of Elements, for example.

Are both the new player core and gm core both coming out in the same month? If so that will be a very expensive month for subscribers. Both of these plus at least the AP book for about 147 roughly.

I would honestly rather seem one delayed a month to spread it out some.

I like saving on shipping.

This is part of the core rule subs?

This is part of the core rule subs?

Yep! It'll be a part of the Rulebook subscription, and you'll have the option to opt out of getting these books if you'd rather not have them.

No mention of a PDF price.... Please tell me the only way to get a PDF wont be the subscription???

Hello!

Any indication what the revisions to the witch class will involve?

Any indication what the revisions to the witch class will involve?

Only alluding to giving more tools to tell the narratives Witches want to share, maybe something to do with familiars, and lessening the restriction on their hexes.

We're expecting to hear a lot more about it during PaizoCon, especially during the 2 hour seminar that'll happen after Erik Mona's recorded keynote.

I can't help but feel this won't sit well with potential new players; having to buy two books just to get access to the core classes seems kinda skeezy, especially for Paizo who are often praised for being less greedy than competitors.
Yeh, we all know the rules are on AoN blahblahblah. That's apples and oranges.

It’s not, the rules are indeed on AoN and if the player just wants the class stats they don’t have to buy the book at all, you don’t get to ignore that.

That being said 1) this is an update to those classes and 2) with the classes spread between this and the other book there’s more page count for them, 3) we’re getting more classes as “Core” for the Remaster,

and 4), and this is the main thing, in 2.0 the Core Rulebook and Advanced Player’s Guide were two separate books as well.

I can't help but feel this won't sit well with potential new players; having to buy two books just to get access to the core classes seems kinda skeezy, especially for Paizo who are often praised for being less greedy than competitors.

Yeh, we all know the rules are on AoN blahblahblah. That's apples and oranges.

Just tell them by buying both books they'll be sticking it to Hasbro.

Worth mentioning is also that while there is a slight price increase of the 4 combined books, it is nowhere near how much stuff is now more expensive than it was 3-4 years ago. Paizo could have easily justified doing 80$ per book, yet they elected to sell them rather cheap, considering how massive the books are and how they are probably selling them close to the production cost. Like, this is the opposite of greed.

I can't help but feel this won't sit well with potential new players; having to buy two books just to get access to the core classes seems kinda skeezy, especially for Paizo who are often praised for being less greedy than competitors.

Yeh, we all know the rules are on AoN blahblahblah. That's apples and oranges.

Technically, they'd have to buy two books anyway to get everything presented in the Player Cores, since it combines the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player's Guide.

From the looks of it, a new player who wants to have the bare minimum needed to play the game would now need three books: Player Core, GM Core, and Monster Core. That's still an increase, but not something that should seem too far out there given the way D&D has set things up for years.

The Player Core 2 seems to kind of occupy a somewhat separate niche in that it looks like you could play the game as presented without it. I'm not sure whether that's a distinction that Paizo wants or, if it is, how they would convey that. But the product descriptions really do seem to make the Player Core 2 out to be the equivalent of the Advanced Player's Guide, but with four Core Rulebook classes added in. I imagine that keeping the page count down so there isn't a big 640-page rulebook is probably a primary motivation for the moving of those classes.

(...) a new player who wants to have the bare minimum needed to play the game (...)

I don't get these takes, like totally. A new player who want to have a bare minimum needed to play the game can get all of the game for free online, legally. And if a new player wants to have a bare minimum needed to play the game in physical form, they can get the Beginner's Box and doesn't need to buy any number of thick rulebooks.

Charlie Brooks wrote:

(...) a new player who wants to have the bare minimum needed to play the game (...)

I don't get these takes, like totally. A new player who want to have a bare minimum needed to play the game can get all of the game for free online, legally. And if a new player wants to have a bare minimum needed to play the game in physical form, they can get the Beginner's Box and doesn't need to buy any number of thick rulebooks.

You're not wrong overall, yet there might be a few things you're missing. The community as a whole knows both of those things, but a newcomer to Paizo might not learn about AoN and some people might see the Beginner's Box as outdated if it doesn't reflect the Remastered rules.

Charlie Brooks wrote:

(...) a new player who wants to have the bare minimum needed to play the game (...)

I don't get these takes, like totally. A new player who want to have a bare minimum needed to play the game can get all of the game for free online, legally. And if a new player wants to have a bare minimum needed to play the game in physical form, they can get the Beginner's Box and doesn't need to buy any number of thick rulebooks.

And then there is the intermediately-priced option of buying the books in pdf form.

GGSigmar wrote:

Charlie Brooks wrote:

(...) a new player who wants to have the bare minimum needed to play the game (...)

I don't get these takes, like totally. A new player who want to have a bare minimum needed to play the game can get all of the game for free online, legally. And if a new player wants to have a bare minimum needed to play the game in physical form, they can get the Beginner's Box and doesn't need to buy any number of thick rulebooks.

You're not wrong overall, yet there might be a few things you're missing. The community as a whole knows both of those things, but a newcomer to Paizo might not learn about AoN and some people might see the Beginner's Box as outdated if it doesn't reflect the Remastered rules.

That hypothetical new player would instead take the first core book, see the classes in it, and not know that historically "sorcerer" was a core class, and find it nice that they added it for the 2nd book.

And they have said that the beginner box skips most of the changes in the game (as it doesn't have 100% of the rules, like I don'T think there's mention of aligned damages, and they only use modifiers, never mentioning the old "stats"). A newcomers might not even realize the BBox was made before the remaster... And the stuff using OGL names will simply be seen as "exclusive" items and creatures for the BBox.

Worth mentioning is also that while there is a slight price increase of the 4 combined books, it is nowhere near how much stuff is now more expensive than it was 3-4 years ago. Paizo could have easily justified doing 80$ per book, yet they elected to sell them rather cheap, considering how massive the books are and how they are probably selling them close to the production cost. Like, this is the opposite of greed.

$80? Really?

Can you show me some RPG hardcovers that retail for $80?

I can't, because there aren't any, because at that kind of price point whoever tried that would be out of business quick.

The most expensive RPG HC that's not some special edition or other exotic sort of book which I know of is the Old Gods of Appalachia HC, which at $70, received more than a few gripes about gouging the OGoA fanbase.

After that, the second most expensive book I know of, and I personally own, is the Zweihander Core book, which has an MSRP of $65, and puts the CRB to shame in terms of cover quality, page quality, spine and binding construction quality, and also includes a ribbon bookmark. It's also 30 pages longer than the CRB.
And that's not the only book I own which is of higher quality and cheaper cost per page, it's just the best example.

I don't know what kind of experience you have with RPG books outside of Paizo, but you're way off the mark if you think a book with the construction quality of the CRB as it stands in the 4th printing or the new Core books, if they are of similar quality, which is doubtful, given the steady decrease in construction quality 2e books have undergone since the launch of the line, are worth anywhere near $80.

OGA came out 2019

Updated Zweihander came out 2019 as well

Things have gotten a weeeeeee bit more expensive since then in case you haven't noticed.

I don't mind the extra cost as long as the money goes to the employees.

Optic_TH wrote:

I can't help but feel this won't sit well with potential new players; having to buy two books just to get access to the core classes seems kinda skeezy, especially for Paizo who are often praised for being less greedy than competitors.

Yeh, we all know the rules are on AoN blahblahblah. That's apples and oranges.

Technically, they'd have to buy two books anyway to get everything presented in the Player Cores, since it combines the Core Rulebook and the Advanced Player's Guide.

From the looks of it, a new player who wants to have the bare minimum needed to play the game would now need three books: Player Core, GM Core, and Monster Core. That's still an increase, but not something that should seem too far out there given the way D&D has set things up for years.

The Player Core 2 seems to kind of occupy a somewhat separate niche in that it looks like you could play the game as presented without it. I'm not sure whether that's a distinction that Paizo wants or, if it is, how they would convey that. But the product descriptions really do seem to make the Player Core 2 out to be the equivalent of the Advanced Player's Guide, but with four Core Rulebook classes added in. I imagine that keeping the page count down so there isn't a big 640-page rulebook is probably a primary motivation for the moving of those classes.

There is also the need of more in-depth revision/adaptation of classes (and ancestry) with draconic aspects to the new Core dragons and class with the revised Not-alignment system.

We heard from Erik Mona that rogues will no longer have a complicated weapon proficiency list and will simply get all martial weapons access, and wizard similar but with all simple weapons.

Will the bard also get some variant of this clean up, or stay on its partial martial selection?

We heard from Erik Mona that rogues will no longer have a complicated weapon proficiency list and will simply get all martial weapons access, and wizard similar but with all simple weapons.

Will the bard also get some variant of this clean up, or stay on its partial martial selection?

Hopefully the answer is yes. Otherwise, Bard would be the only class left with such a stipulation. Whether or not they adjust it to just simple or up it to all martial weapons is the key question here. Given Warrior Muse's main benefit and the fact you can pick it up later as a feat for other Muses, I'm betting on simple weapons only.

But that's a good question to ask at PaizoCon!

Demonskunk wrote:

The Painted Oryx wrote:

Demonskunk wrote:

Woah, $60 per book, and you need at least THREE of them!?

$180 is a BIG ASK for the bare basics you need to play the dang game.

All the rules are available for free on Archives of Nethys! So you really don't need to spend any money. $60 for a beautifully illustrated hardcover book is perfectly reasonable I think!

Like, you're not wrong, but I'm still upset.

P2.0

Core Rulebook $60
Gamemastery Guide $50
Advanced Player's Guide $50
Bestiary 1 $50

$210

P2.1
Player Core $60
Player Core 2 $60
GM Core $60
Monster Core $60

$240

That's without getting into the other expansions added and reworked like Treasure Vault.

To clarify, the contents of the Player Core and Player Core 2 will also contain content from the Pathfinder Lost Omens Ancestry Guide and Character Guide. (Leshy, orc, versatile heritages, etc.)

Please, please, please, consider adding the Geniekin versatile heritages!! Not only the new Nephilim!!

You can still use geniekin from books it was released in. I am also afraid the scope of the new core books is already decided.

hey I heard you all like final cover art
ENJOY!

From the Remaster stream at PaizoCon just now: Wizard subclasses are now not based on the classic Spell School options (gone with the OGL), but rather literal in-world schools of magical study! A Wizard who studied civic magic will have different options than a military mage, to use the examples from the stream.

I've never, ever wanted to play a Wizard before, but this flavor is very tempting.

From the Remaster stream at PaizoCon just now: Wizard subclasses are now not based on the classic Spell School options (gone with the OGL), but rather literal in-world schools of magical study! A Wizard who studied civic magic will have different options than a military mage, to use the examples from the stream.

I've never, ever wanted to play a Wizard before, but this flavor is very tempting.

It's Great but now there is some worry about how the Runelord Archetype works.

As a fan of Runelords I need more Details.

keftiu wrote:

From the Remaster stream at PaizoCon just now: Wizard subclasses are now not based on the classic Spell School options (gone with the OGL), but rather literal in-world schools of magical study! A Wizard who studied civic magic will have different options than a military mage, to use the examples from the stream.

I've never, ever wanted to play a Wizard before, but this flavor is very tempting.

It's Great but now there is some worry about how the Runelord Archetype works.

As a fan of Runelords I need more Details.

There was talk of potential Runelord Spell Schools someday!

keftiu wrote:

From the Remaster stream at PaizoCon just now: Wizard subclasses are now not based on the classic Spell School options (gone with the OGL), but rather literal in-world schools of magical study! A Wizard who studied civic magic will have different options than a military mage, to use the examples from the stream.

I've never, ever wanted to play a Wizard before, but this flavor is very tempting.

It's Great but now there is some worry about how the Runelord Archetype works.

As a fan of Runelords I need more Details.

They talked about that too. Sloth and Pride are kinds of schools, if I hears them correctly.

IIRC the seven Virtues/Sins of the seven Runelords were a way to explain the 3.5 schools of magic. From there, it is pretty easy to stop referring those and only refer the in-setting schools of the Runelords.

From the Remaster stream at PaizoCon just now: Wizard subclasses are now not based on the classic Spell School options (gone with the OGL), but rather literal in-world schools of magical study! A Wizard who studied civic magic will have different options than a military mage, to use the examples from the stream.

I've never, ever wanted to play a Wizard before, but this flavor is very tempting.

Wizard is my go-to, and the remastered version only makes me more interested. Merging lore with rules? Yes. YES. YES!

So.

Due to divorce from OGL, what becomes of Abjuration, Conjuration, Divination, Enchantment, Evocation, Illusion, Necromancy, and Transmutation?