Pathfinder Lost Omens: Absalom, City of Lost Omens

I wish they'd put that kind of information into a central location instead of spreading it across half the internet.

Cutting the base ancestry entirely seems no more questionable that putting out feats months ahead of the ancestry itself, so I'll still wait for positive confirmation.

I wish they'd put that kind of information into a central location instead of spreading it across half the internet.

Well, it's not "information" as much as it is teasers and tidbits offered by Paizo folk too excited to keep everything bottled up.

I really strongly did not get the impression that they cut content at all for the book. They have only talked about adding stuff, and as a company they also try really hard not to tease things they aren't positive they can deliver. I'd also think that if an ancestry got yeeted from the book, they'd point it out.

Frankly, ancestries don't take up that much space.

Every ancestry they've released has taken a minimum of 4 pages. I think that is kind of a lot.

I'd also think that if an ancestry got yeeted from the book, they'd point it out.

If they'd settled on and announced a release date, I would agree, but as it is...

Every ancestry they've released has taken a minimum of 4 pages. I think that is kind of a lot.

Sporkedup wrote:

I'd also think that if an ancestry got yeeted from the book, they'd point it out.

If they'd settled on and announced a release date, I would agree, but as it is...

Last numbers we heard for book length were something like 350. Might have actually gotten longer from there. They are not constraining themselves to the 296 pages originally announced, unless they recently made a decision to excise giant chunks of the book.

I'm well aware the book got bigger. What exactly led you to believe otherwise?

All I'm saying is that they only recently finished the writing, and haven't confirmed they've finished the layout, though that's possible (depending on what else was in the pipeline).

Stuff probably changed, even from what they were working with around PaizoCon. Hopefully not stuff they already announced, but even that is possible.

Gillmen are confirmed to have extra feats coming in the Lost Omen Ancestry Guide,

Where/when was this confirmed?

Elfteiroh wrote:

Gillmen are confirmed to have extra feats coming in the Lost Omen Ancestry Guide,

Where/when was this confirmed?

Last August, on the 28th, on discord, Luis Loza posted this:

Yes, I can! In fact, I already have. AG will have new options for all of the ancestries found in the APG and Lost Omens released up until that point.

I'm pretty sure we announce that in the initial product announcement. If not, well, I'm saying it now!

Stuff for all 10 ancestries/VH from the APG plus hobgoblin, leshy, lizardfolk, and azarketi.

And considering the time needed to print the book before releases, it was way to late to remove content. So they pretty much need to release the base ancestry in Absalom book.

I'm looking back over the posts here, and just wondering if there is any solid ETA on this being released? I am super-excited for this book, and holding off on running Agents of Edgewatch until it comes out so I can supplement the campaign with info from this book.

Not really any solid date, the best estimate is september if they follow their 3 lost omens a year setup from this year. this year we got gods and magic in february, legends in july and pfs in september, next year we're getting ancestry guide in february and mwangi expanse in july, so we can assume this will come in september.

The LO schedule is (in theory) quarterly. This was originally set for a Spring release, with GM in Winter, Legends in Summer, and PFS in Fall. Next year we have Ancestry in winter, Mwagni in spring (if only just). They could be doing 3 again next year, but a release in August/September and another release in November might also be possible and get them back onto their proposed schedule.

But 3 releases next year is quite possible, given the state of the world.

Edit: Correction, I just noticed the map pack for this item is included in the LO subscription instead of the map sub. So 4 products for next year, assuming both this and that release in 2021.

Who knows, maybe we'll get 5 products next year...

I do wonder if the size of Absalom and the Mwangi book are pushing them more towards confidence that three a year is sufficient. I personally wouldn't feel slighted at all, but I also would mind even more Lost Omens at all times...

I am excited for the gill men.

Would be kinda bummed though if we have to wait until next year's September :( I was really looking forward to playing agent of edgewatch and hoping gm would have access to this book, but that seems impossible at this rate...

Hm, if the ancestry guide has gillmen feats, and gillmen aren't coming for a long while after the ancestry guide... maybe the base ancestry could be released through the blog to go with the extra feats?

It would've become free on nethys after City of Lost Omens came out anyway.

Hm, if the ancestry guide has gillmen feats, and gillmen aren't coming for a long while after the ancestry guide... maybe the base ancestry could be released through the blog to go with the extra feats?

It would've become free on nethys after City of Lost Omens came out anyway.

I thought it was confirmed there were no gillmen feats in the Ancestry Guide?

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Hm, if the ancestry guide has gillmen feats, and gillmen aren't coming for a long while after the ancestry guide... maybe the base ancestry could be released through the blog to go with the extra feats?

It would've become free on nethys after City of Lost Omens came out anyway.

I thought it was confirmed there were no gillmen feats in the Ancestry Guide?

Apparently , I don't know how the change in release schedule changed things-- were they already slated and designed and included in the AG, or were they nixed from the AG because they already knew city was behind schedule.

Is the plan to release this in 2021?

Is the plan to release this in 2021?

When we have an target release date for Pathfinder Lost Omens: Absalom, City of Lost Omens we will promote it. However, you will not have to wait long for the gillmen. :)

Oh? Now I’m curious if they’ll be released in the AV players guide or a web supplement, or even in Ruins of Guantlight. Reading the summaries, there’s a distinct Dagon vibe that gillmen would fit in well with, and given the original timeline it would make sense to write the adventure with that as a possible option.

Note: I am in no way expecting or asking for this to occur; I’m merely speculating.

I imagine it’s just that as soon as they realized there would be a delay they ported them over to the ancestry guide.

Which is really likely but I kinda hope that isn't the case just because then it mean they would replace other content in Ancestry Guide :'D Well unless they give new content in absalom book instead then(fingers crossed for minotaur ancestry? xP Love for Nuar Spiritskin!)

I imagine it’s just that as soon as they realized there would be a delay they ported them over to the ancestry guide.

Possible, but when I suggested that on the previous page Elfteiroh made it a point to jump in and tell me I was wrong and implied I was an idiot for even thinking it, so it absolutely must be in the City of Absalom book.

He insisted it was flat impossible that the gillmen would be in the Ancestry guide.

Ancestry Guide makes more sense to me than the Abomination Vaults backmatter. I don't think including an ancestry in an AP volume has been a well-received thing. That's part of why shoony are controversial right now, if I had to guess.

I mean, before Shanksie's comment, I would have been incredibly surprised to see them in anything but the Absalom book. Now I have no idea because "soon" would imply in some other already-announced book.

Yeah, since it already had Gillmen space set aside, my guess is that either room was made for the basic ancestry material as well, or that the 'extra feats for Gillmen' was replaced by 'The Gillmen Ancestry' or some combination of the two, depending on what else might've been saved for later.

*shrug*

It could also be planned to be released in the players guide (as that would be the single easiest place to slip something extra in this late in the game) AND be in this or a different book. I question if they had time to place it in the Ancestry guide. Elfteiroh did have a point on how early they would have had to make that call; in absence of information I could speculate what was and was not added, but if it wasn't included by late August I have a hard time imagining them having enough time to add it much later.

I was more annoyed at how much offense was taken at my extremely obvious observation that something said last May about a product that isn't even on the release schedule yet might have changed.

*shrug*

It could also be planned to be released in the players guide (as that would be the single easiest place to slip something extra in this late in the game) AND be in this or a different book. I question if they had time to place it in the Ancestry guide. Elfteiroh did have a point on how early they would have had to make that call; in absence of information I could speculate what was and was not added, but if it wasn't included by late August I have a hard time imagining them having enough time to add it much later.

I was more annoyed at how much offense was taken at my extremely obvious observation that something said last May about a product that isn't even on the release schedule yet might have changed.

That's fair for the offense part.

I'd probably venture that the Gillmen, if space were made for the LOAG for extra feats, probably could not fit if they tried to switch the spacing for the ancestry itself. And it'd be really hard to take out the Gillmen ancestry from the Absalom book, considering how long in development HFIL it's been in.

Considering how easy it is to change up the Player's Guide, it'd make the most sense to add it to the Abomination Vaults' PG. But even better? Just release the Gillmen ancestry details as a standalone download in a Paizo blog. It'd allow the editing for the other 2 books to be left alone, and doesn't deter much value of the Absalom book. It'd be on AoN in 1-3 weeks. But the weeks without access to the base Gillmen would waste the value of the Gillmen feat pages in LOAG for who knows how long between LOAG's Feb release and whenever Absalom comes out.

I didn’t take any offense, and didn’t mean to imply anyone was an idiot. If this sounded like this, I am deeply sorry, that was absolutely not my intention.

I just jumped in and gave the information I had. Just that I know that most book content are usually set about a year before release, and sent to the printer many months before release. That’s not something that a lot of people know, so I tend to try to make sure people manage their expectations.

I will note though that the first time I posted about this, I thought the last confirmation was later than end of August, so I indeed make a firmer statement than I should have... but even then, September or later would have been kinda late to bring that big of a change to the book considering the time they need for the printers. So I am still strongly believing this big of a change will not have been made. But it is *not* impossible. Just extremely unlikely.

If they end up releasing the ancestry outside the Absalom book, a blog or a player guide would be most likely, like many proposed here. (There is chances AoN wouldn’t add it until the Absalom book though, they are not putting up all blog content, a lot is missing. Up to now, the extra Panteons released as preview for Gods and Magic are the only blog content on AoN that I know of.)
(Also, it could be “released” incomplete too, with very limited content, but enough to be usable with the LO AG extra feats.)

I didn’t take any offense, and didn’t mean to imply anyone was an idiot. If this sounded like this, I am deeply sorry, that was absolutely not my intention.

It's all good. I shouldn't have let it bother me as much as it clearly did.

(Also, it could be “released” incomplete too, with very limited content, but enough to be usable with the LO AG extra feats.)

Certainly a possiblity.

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Is the plan to release this in 2021?

When we have an target release date for Pathfinder Lost Omens: Absalom, City of Lost Omens we will promote it. However, you will not have to wait long for the gillmen. :)

Aaron - I believe Paizo's production queue is longer than one year.

It's possible it can get released in fall '21 but probably only by pushing something else into '22.

If Paizo decides they don't want to mess with their internal schedule to turbocharge one product at the expense of others, Absalom, City of Lost Omens will have to wait until 2022.

For instance, they might have lined up a similar tie-in between this fall's Adventure Path and some yet-unknown sourcebook. They would likely not want to wreck that tie-in just to salvage an already-wrecked tie-in. Meaning that they might have decided that since Absalom already is behind schedule, it doesn't matter as much whether the wait is 6 or 12 or 24 months; the best thing is to keep it from further disrupting the schedule.

Of course, they might also have the capacity to accelerate the schedule (release more sourcebooks in any given year) but I don't think they want to do that - it could end up just cannibalizing sales.

So there you have it - a couple of possible (plausible even) reasons why you might not see the book until '22! Cheers

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Is the plan to release this in 2021?

When we have an target release date for Pathfinder Lost Omens: Absalom, City of Lost Omens we will promote it. However, you will not have to wait long for the gillmen. :)

Aaron - I believe Paizo's production queue is longer than one year.

It's possible it can get released in fall '21 but probably only by pushing something else into '22.

If Paizo decides they don't want to mess with their internal schedule to turbocharge one product at the expense of others, Absalom, City of Lost Omens will have to wait until 2022.

For instance, they might have lined up a similar tie-in between this fall's Adventure Path and some yet-unknown sourcebook. They would likely not want to wreck that tie-in just to salvage an already-wrecked tie-in. Meaning that they might have decided that since Absalom already is behind schedule, it doesn't matter as much whether the wait is 6 or 12 or 24 months; the best thing is to keep it from further disrupting the schedule.

Of course, they might also have the capacity to accelerate the schedule (release more sourcebooks in any given year) but I don't think they want to do that - it could end up just cannibalizing sales.

So there you have it - a couple of possible (plausible even) reasons why you might not see the book until '22! Cheers

You're telling Paizo's Marketing and Media Manager this?

Zapp wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Is the plan to release this in 2021?

When we have an target release date for Pathfinder Lost Omens: Absalom, City of Lost Omens we will promote it. However, you will not have to wait long for the gillmen. :)

Aaron - I believe Paizo's production queue is longer than one year.

It's possible it can get released in fall '21 but probably only by pushing something else into '22.

If Paizo decides they don't want to mess with their internal schedule to turbocharge one product at the expense of others, Absalom, City of Lost Omens will have to wait until 2022.

For instance, they might have lined up a similar tie-in between this fall's Adventure Path and some yet-unknown sourcebook. They would likely not want to wreck that tie-in just to salvage an already-wrecked tie-in. Meaning that they might have decided that since Absalom already is behind schedule, it doesn't matter as much whether the wait is 6 or 12 or 24 months; the best thing is to keep it from further disrupting the schedule.

Of course, they might also have the capacity to accelerate the schedule (release more sourcebooks in any given year) but I don't think they want to do that - it could end up just cannibalizing sales.

So there you have it - a couple of possible (plausible even) reasons why you might not see the book until '22! Cheers

You're telling Paizo's Marketing and Media Manager this?

Hi fans. I confirmed yesterday that a free PDF supplement containing the azarketi (gillman) ancestry will be released with or before the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide. The book contains expanded azarketi material and you need the core to use it, of course. Don't fret. We've got your back. Adventures Ahead!

Hi fans. I confirmed yesterday that a free PDF supplement containing the azarketi (gillman) ancestry will be released with or before the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide. The book contains expanded azarketi material and you need the core to use it, of course. Don't fret. We've got your back. Adventures Ahead!

Fantastic! Thank you for the update!

Sporkedup wrote:

Zapp wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:

Is the plan to release this in 2021?

When we have an target release date for Pathfinder Lost Omens: Absalom, City of Lost Omens we will promote it. However, you will not have to wait long for the gillmen. :)

Aaron - I believe Paizo's production queue is longer than one year.

It's possible it can get released in fall '21 but probably only by pushing something else into '22.

If Paizo decides they don't want to mess with their internal schedule to turbocharge one product at the expense of others, Absalom, City of Lost Omens will have to wait until 2022.

For instance, they might have lined up a similar tie-in between this fall's Adventure Path and some yet-unknown sourcebook. They would likely not want to wreck that tie-in just to salvage an already-wrecked tie-in. Meaning that they might have decided that since Absalom already is behind schedule, it doesn't matter as much whether the wait is 6 or 12 or 24 months; the best thing is to keep it from further disrupting the schedule.

Of course, they might also have the capacity to accelerate the schedule (release more sourcebooks in any given year) but I don't think they want to do that - it could end up just cannibalizing sales.

So there you have it - a couple of possible (plausible even) reasons why you might not see the book until '22! Cheers

You're telling Paizo's Marketing and Media Manager this?

Hi fans. I confirmed yesterday that a free PDF supplement containing the azarketi (gillman) ancestry will be released with or before the Lost Omens Ancestry Guide. The book contains expanded azarketi material and you need the core to use it, of course. Don't fret. We've got your back. Adventures Ahead!

Nice! :D That is really really nice!

now with the grand bazaar book announced are there any updates on this book's release?

now with the grand bazaar book announced are there any updates on this book's release?

Far as I've heard, absolutely nothing yet. Luis confirmed the Grand Bazaar was always envisioned and therefore designed completely separately (I thought perhaps it was a chunk of the Absalom book spun off, but no).

I'm still hopeful we'll see this book sometime this year. I'm not sure that's rational but it's where I personally am at, haha.

"Grand Bazaar book"?

"Grand Bazaar book"?

This one.

"Grand Bazaar book"?

Just announced this last week!

https://paizo.com/products/btq027kc/discuss?Pathfinder-Lost-Omens-The-Grand -Bazaar

Sigh. Linkified.

Hi, was wondering about the release date,

https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Absalom-City-Lost-Omens/dp/1640782354

Pathfinder Absalom, City of Lost Omens (P2) Hardcover – March 30, 2021
by Alexandria Bustion (Author), John Compton (Author), Jeremy Corff (Author), Katina Davis (Author), & 8 more

But there is no indication anywhere on paizo.com of a release date.

Just a heads up, this book has been delayed until end of year or even beginning of next year per Erik Mona.

Erik Mona wrote:

Both products are currently delayed. I messed up and didn't assign enough pages to the Absalom book to do it right, so I'm holding it back until it's as awesome as we can make it. James Jacobs and I have added about 20 additional locations to the manuscript (the city now has a temple for every core god, for example). We've also been working on an NPC appendix that has short summaries of more than 300 inhabitants of the city. So when you go to a shop, you can cross reference the shopkeeper in an NPC appendix and find out who she is friends with, who she is plotting against, and how all of it might play out into an adventure hook to lure the PCs into adventure.

We're hoping the book will be out by the end of the year. If not, it will be very shortly thereafter. The map folio will come out at the same time as the hardcover.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh8t?Pathfinder-News-From-PaizoCo n-Online

Posted last page.

Hi, was wondering about the release date,

https://www.amazon.com/Pathfinder-Absalom-City-Lost-Omens/dp/1640782354

Pathfinder Absalom, City of Lost Omens (P2) Hardcover – March 30, 2021
by Alexandria Bustion (Author), John Compton (Author), Jeremy Corff (Author), Katina Davis (Author), & 8 more

But there is no indication anywhere on paizo.com of a release date.

oh well thats exciting. Luis or Erik care to comment at all on this?

That date is almost certainly made up by Amazon, as they do.

Ryan Gueldener wrote:

Just a heads up, this book has been delayed until end of year or even beginning of next year per Erik Mona.

Erik Mona wrote:

Both products are currently delayed. I messed up and didn't assign enough pages to the Absalom book to do it right, so I'm holding it back until it's as awesome as we can make it. James Jacobs and I have added about 20 additional locations to the manuscript (the city now has a temple for every core god, for example). We've also been working on an NPC appendix that has short summaries of more than 300 inhabitants of the city. So when you go to a shop, you can cross reference the shopkeeper in an NPC appendix and find out who she is friends with, who she is plotting against, and how all of it might play out into an adventure hook to lure the PCs into adventure.

We're hoping the book will be out by the end of the year. If not, it will be very shortly thereafter. The map folio will come out at the same time as the hardcover.

https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh8t?Pathfinder-News-From-PaizoCo n-Online

Posted last page.

That is why I was wondering about the Amazon date as it correlates approximately to - We're hoping the book will be out by the end of the year. If not, it will be very shortly thereafter.

Erik mentioned on reddit today that his part will be concluded by the end of February. From there, I suppose it's editing, design, layout, that kind of stuff? I don't know timelines for publishing necessarily but I'd think that means this could be a fall release.

At a guess, I'd say that to editing, design, layout, etc. you need to add sending the manuscript to the printer, getting it printed, and getting it shipped back to Paizo for distribution. So you might want to add a month or two to that "could be a fall release".

Waiting is... :-)

At a guess, I'd say that to editing, design, layout, etc. you need to add sending the manuscript to the printer, getting it printed, and getting it shipped back to Paizo for distribution. So you might want to add a month or two to that "could be a fall release".

Waiting is... :-)

He actually added on that it is in layout currently!

Copy editing and then sending it to the printer...looks like June/July at the earliest to me, but that would clash with the release of the Mwangi book.

Copy editing and then sending it to the printer...looks like June/July at the earliest to me, but that would clash with the release of the Mwangi book.

With the state of the world, I would say 6 months minimum from "Send to Printer" to "Out to Subscribers." More like 7 months if you're starting from February due to Lunar New Year.

I would guess that Spork is closer to correct with his Fall guess; November or December sounds reasonable if the writing and developing is done this month, since that would give a couple months of cushion for slippage.

Edit: I happen to work in international shipping, specifically over a decade in operations planning, and my ex-boyfriend was a freight-forwarder, which is where the estimate comes from. I go into more logic elsewhere, but I'll report it here under spoiler:

..."Upcoming Playtest"? Are you saying there is another playtest separate from Guns & Gears coming up? If so, where did you learn this?