Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals

4.70/5 (based on 3 ratings)
Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals

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Beyond Good and Evil

Monitors—neutral outsiders dedicated to maintaining their views of the universe—reject the battles between the wicked and the righteous and instead war over the underpinnings of reality. Join the cosmic debate with the secrets and esoteric lore found within, including:

  • Details on 24 monitor demigods—such as primal inevitables; protean lords; psychopomp ushers; and the mysterious aeon known as Monad, the Condition of All—and the divine powers they bestow upon mortal worshippers!
  • Rules for the proctor prestige class, along with information about different monitor sects, mantras for summoning monitors, and esoteric occult rituals that harness the power of monitor divinities.
  • A bestiary of new monitors and their roles within the universe, including irresponsible illureshi protean sorcerers, morbai psychopomp masters of healing and poisons, and knowledge-erasing agnoia aeons!

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals is intended for use with the Pathfinder campaign setting, but it can be easily adapted to any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-64078-127-6

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscription.

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Stuff I've always wanted

5/5

So I've always wanted to have all Good/Neutral/Evil axis demigods fleshed outs and I've finally gotten that. Sure there are still some left that are still only mentioned only in bestiaries, but with this books, Primal Inevitables, Protean Lords, Psychopomp Ushers and the Monad finally have backstory info and other stuff :D

There are no class or feat options besides monitor obedience and proctor class in this nor is there items(artifact for Concordance of Rivals being absent is kinda weird, but it makes me hopeful it might appear in future AP or something), but that just means more room for flavor :D

I'm actually kinda surprised, but Primal Inevitables are now my favourite type of monitor lords. Machine gods have always been appealing to me, but reason I got into them was how as demigods of absolute law and order their areas of concerns are really mundane and structured. Like for example, one of missing ones was demigod of calendars.

My current ranking of monitor demigods is primal inevitabls > monad = psychopomp ushers > protean lords. Issue I have with proteans in general that as random shapeshifitng chaos beasts, they are ALL snakes with two legs, though third of the new introduced bestiary proteans finally strikes my fancy as while they still have serpentine shape, they are way more chaotic and weird looking than majority of other proteans.

In general, all of new bestiary monsters are great, flavorful and weird :D Only two of the proteans, while cool that they fill lower cr roles, seem kinda standard to me, rest of them are wonderfully weird to me.

I think thats good way to summarize this book, its wonderfully weird. All of monitor demigods are some of the most interesting neutral aligned deities in the whole game.

(plus Pharasma backstory is cool. Plus I'm now formulating conspiracy theory of there being two or three different Asmodeus and the one in hell just stole other ones' name as he is prince of lies)


Glad we got this before the edition change...

5/5

It's a format Paizo has some experience with by now- the three volumes of the Book of the Damned, then the hardcover, the Chronicle of the Righteous- all the fingerprints of those books are on this one- but it's a more refined product than those earlier ones, benefiting from both greater experience- and more oddball subject matter.

The "monitors" (Monitor is to neutral outsider as Celestial is to good and Fiend is to evil) get codified a bit, and there, of course, some new faces, but the real meat of this sucker is in the various neutral-aligned Monitor demigod writeups.

Full disclosure: I'm a sucker for Psychopomps, so I found their Ushers the most engaging, but just about every category has something cool to run with.

It was also nice to see a bunch of demigods NOT saddled with Alignment domains for Clerics...


Lust for Gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

4/5

Zapp: I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.

I have been waiting for this book be published for years now, and it finally arrived on my door step.

The largest part of the book is dedicated to exploring the various demigods that by and by cause reality in the pathfinder world to function (ensuring that gravity works and that atoms spin) and so far I have enjoyed this section. Much love was poured into making each of these leaders among psychopomps, proteans, inevitables, and aeons.

I found the bestiary very enjoyable and was quite happy to see my beloved harbingers of chaos getting some much needed love and attention by overtaking around half the bestiary all to themselves.

My only major gripes rest with the player options section of the book. The proctor prestige class stat-wise seems to be fairly balanced in power to the prestige classes found in the Book of Damned and the Chronicles of the Righteous, I found the class requirement of having to willingly turn down the aid of a celestial or fiend to be circumstantial at best. It seems rather detrimental to deliberately summon a CR10 good or evil outsider just to deliberately refuse it's aid to fulfill a class requirement, as immortals of any alignment can hold grudges lasting far longer than any mortal lifetime.

My other gripe with this section was that it did not contain any magical items that were themed for those with a heart the color of freshly poured cement. Particularly the absence of the in-game stats for the Concordance of Rivals artifact. The sister volumes of the works of Tabris have stats in their own books and I thought it a shame that this, one of the final published works for 1E was missing such an iconic detail. I'm sure I could create my own version to reflect the artifacts of the prior books with the power to smite those with extremism in their hearts and spells that reflect a soul tinted by the color of slate, but I still find this absence of the key detail to be a disappointment.

All in all, I find the book an enjoyable. There is honestly enough fluff and potential plot hooks in this book to keep me and my players busy as we prepare to continue the epic struggle between good and neutral.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Thomas Seitz wrote:
Waaaiiiitttt....there's a demi-god of slang now?!?!

Yep! And they are one hoopy frood! :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Does this mean Dispater has a rival for a drop the mike contest?


Could anyone also share anything about the remaining Primal Inevitable? How do they look? What are they all about?

Dark Archive

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All of the deities were posted on earlier pages of this thread


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I need to order this.


The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Could anyone also share anything about the remaining Primal Inevitable? How do they look? What are they all about?

One more question. Did any of them get illustrated?

I know their names and domains were already posted previously, but I'm more interested in their appearance and their agendas, if they do have any.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Could anyone also share anything about the remaining Primal Inevitable? How do they look? What are they all about?

One more question. Did any of them get illustrated?

I know their names and domains were already posted previously, but I'm more interested in their appearance and their agendas, if they do have any.

Valmallos got art. He looks like a powerfully built metal man wearing a golden kilt, a hole in his chest revealing a glowing golden ball where his heart should be. There are two twisting scrolls—one with silver writing and the other with gold writing— that wrap themselves around him.

He is responsible for the various components of magic (VSM) as a gate to keep amateurs out. He regards those who use magic in a frivolous manner as a threat to all reality.

Liberty's Edge

I've been dying to get more Inevitables. So many Cosmic and Civil Laws are going unenforced!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
David knott 242 wrote:


Ydajisk the Mother of Tongues (Chaos, Knowledge, Rune, Trickery) lord of language evolution, lost words, and slang

New favorite deity/demigod.

Dark Archive

Huh, Ceyannan got new art in the book ._. Thats kinda surprising since they already had illustration of his appearances in Salim pathfinder tales books

Anyhoo, in case this ends up last appearance of neutral Aeons before they get retconned into LN and last book were inevitables are relevant (before they are retconned into "Axiomites stopped building them"), it seems great finale to finally have more content for them.

Contributor

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Meraki wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


Ydajisk the Mother of Tongues (Chaos, Knowledge, Rune, Trickery) lord of language evolution, lost words, and slang
New favorite deity/demigod.

I'm so glad that you like them! I had lot of fun finally giving them more detail. Any feedback on their boons? :)

Dark Archive

Come to think about it, even if inevitables all suspiciously disappear in 2e, Valmallos has still to be alive because he is reasons why magic needs components to be used :p So wohoo!

(but yeah, seriously, I hope we will get new inevitables and adaptions of old ones in 2e. Considering I'm pretty sure Pathfinder isn't gonna drop Glabrezus and other D&D original monsters...)

Silver Crusade

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Tabris really needs to stop getting his info from Axiomites at the bar.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:
Meraki wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


Ydajisk the Mother of Tongues (Chaos, Knowledge, Rune, Trickery) lord of language evolution, lost words, and slang
New favorite deity/demigod.
I'm so glad that you like them! I had lot of fun finally giving them more detail. Any feedback on their boons? :)

The boons are fun, but what I really like is the obedience.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Todd Stewart wrote:
Meraki wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:


Ydajisk the Mother of Tongues (Chaos, Knowledge, Rune, Trickery) lord of language evolution, lost words, and slang
New favorite deity/demigod.
I'm so glad that you like them! I had lot of fun finally giving them more detail. Any feedback on their boons? :)

I don't actually have the book yet. :-) (Probably be picking it up at PaizoCon.) But that description alone is enough to sell me. I'm a huge language nerd.


The protean lord boons are considerably more powerful than the others, and compare favorably to the best boons published for other gods/demigods.

Il'Surrish's second boon grants a paralyze effect that is an auto daze even on a successful save. Great boss negator. The third boon is pretty strong defensively.

Narriseminek's are fine, but not as "whoa."

Ssila'meshnik's second boon is a pretty amazing get out of jail free card if you have an ally or enemy you can sacrifice in your place. I'm pretty sure the intent is that it works on thinks like Imprisonment, and probably Stone to Flesh and other "game over" abilities as well. The third boon is nuts, a whole lot of double rolls; once per day limitation?

Ydajisk's second boon as written gives a ranged touch attack that confuses for 1d4 rounds without a save. Three times per day, another great boss lockdown ability. The third boon is once again nuts, Cha modifier per day uses of a mix of Word of Chaos and all the Power Word X spells, with the only limitation that you can't use the same one twice in a row.

The Monad boons are also pretty good, but the psychopomp ushers look like pretty uniformly bad, reminding me of a slightly downgraded version of the empyreal lords and the third tier gods in Faiths of Golarion.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Et cetera et cetera wrote:
Why isn't the Concordance of Rivals given stats?

Is there an answer to this?

I would like to know why there was no Artifact in the book.

Dark Archive

Who wrote the Primal Inevitable stuff in the book btw?

Its great stuff, I especially love Aunitath, The Eternal's picture :D (also nice that they are only one out of mentioned missing/dead primal inevitables who might be alive. Though the dead ones are/were cool too) They are good amount of weird and super structured robo gods


I just like the fact there's now a rival to smack talking for Dispater.

Paizo Employee Organized Play Lead Developer

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CorvusMask wrote:

Who wrote the Primal Inevitable stuff in the book btw?

Its great stuff, I especially love Aunitath, The Eternal's picture :D (also nice that they are only one out of mentioned missing/dead primal inevitables who might be alive. Though the dead ones are/were cool too) They are good amount of weird and super structured robo gods

I wrote the primal inevitables, including the ones mentioned in the "War Between Law and Chaos" section. I'm glad you enjoyed them.

If you're curious about who wrote what, definitely check out the credits post I made a few weeks ago.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Uh yeah cant lie a lot of this reads like stuff from Games workshops Age of sigmar setting

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kevin Mack wrote:
Uh yeah cant lie a lot of this reads like stuff from Games workshops Age of sigmar setting

Which is great, because Age of Sigmar is the only iteration of Warhammer setting which I can stomach.

Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Uh yeah cant lie a lot of this reads like stuff from Games workshops Age of sigmar setting
Which is great, because Age of Sigmar is the only iteration of Warhammer setting which I can stomach.

While I think ye are being unnecessary attacking there, I do have to note that isn't the main bad thing about Age of Sigmar that they trashed over old setting just to create new one with trademarkable names?

Like, nothing bad about Age of Sigmar in itself, just that they didn't really have to have bad guys win in original setting to do it.

(Not really familiar with Warhammer outside the Total War game, I really dislike the 40k version though because it has lot of creepy fans who take it too seriously. Like, as in they seriously root for the fascist xenophobic self destructive empire)

Dark Archive

On side note, huh, the aeon article does actually have future proofing for why they might be LN in 2e:

Apparently more inevitables have been losing their war with chaos, less aeons have been injecting chaos into the mix and instead they have worked to preserve order. So presumably by time axiomites decide to stop creating new ones, aeons would take their place in order to balance law and chaos.

(I guess this does mean though inevitables are safe in Starfinder's AU timeline since they still exist in far future and aeons are still neutral in alien archive :D)

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kevin Mack wrote:
Uh yeah cant lie a lot of this reads like stuff from Games workshops Age of sigmar setting

Well I dont actually mean that in a lore is bad way I mean for instance the first opening bit practically reads as the opening of Age of Sigmar

Spoiler:
A lone survivor of the previous world / universe clinging to the seal/sigmarite that is all that remains of the previous world with a mention of the things from beyond/ chaos gods.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I've sincerely meant that both AoS and Concordance of Rivals is gonzo, and I like gonzo. Very gonzo. Space dragons gonzo. I'm

Dark Archive

I'm not sure I remember correctly what Gonzo meant, but i agree, this is wonderfully weird book

Contributor

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It means that blue-purple muppet noses are actually proteans in disguise!
Which means either those are very small proteans, or that Gonzo is intimidatingly large. Hmm.


I'm already looking forward to the lore. However, does anyone have a crunch summary? Thanks. :)

Dark Archive

Lemartes wrote:
I'm already looking forward to the lore. However, does anyone have a crunch summary? Thanks. :)

Crunch is just Monitor Obedience and Proctor Prestige Class. Unless you count deity info in general as crunch. Otherwise this is mostly flavor and lore with cool bestiary monsters included


Yep. I asked for 'crunch" and that's about what I got. A few rituals, one feat and one prestige class.


Cool. Thanks. :)

Dark Archive

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Do love the art for Pale Horse (I've always wondered what the Boneyard could beeee)!

Dark Archive

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On one hand, I thought this book was well written and illustrated, as were all of the previous Outsider flavor books.

Unfortunately, I'm ambivalent about Pharasma as a character and she has a comparatively reduced status in my iteration of the Pathfinder universe. Thus, I will have to alter or discard a lot of lore presented in this book. Which is bad because the purpose of these books is to provide lore for tired GMs who don't have enough time to do in-depth world building.

My other complaint is that, I suppose due to my previously stated ambivalence about Pharasma, I would have preferred more write-ups on Primal Inevitables and Protean Lords and fewer on Psychopomp Ushers.

On a side note, in order to make the Monad a full deity according to established paradigms, which domain do you think is a good idea for his 5th option? I was thinking Protection.

Dark Archive

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Isn't that though what always happen when you customize setting by changing characters a lot?

I mean, you know, the "Now I have to change everything related to character everytime they are mentioned in campaign setting materials" thing

Paizo Employee Organized Play Lead Developer

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Creon Vizcarra wrote:
On a side note, in order to make the Monad a full deity according to established paradigms, which domain do you think is a good idea for his 5th option? I was thinking Protection.

Protection is solid, but I’d go for Community. The aeons are intrinsically connected to one another through the Monad, and while there might not be much sense of camaraderie, this unity in thought, knowledge, and purpose is readily represented through the Community domain.

As a sidenote, we use it/its for the Monad’s pronouns, in large part to represent it as a force and not really a being that cares about (or even acknowledges?) identity. Granted, that’s our take on the Monad, and you’re empowered to do what’s right for your game.


Yeah, I agree, way too Psychopomp Ushers, not enough of the rest. Also it does annoy me that all the Protean Lords are genderfluid, you would think that beings from a realm of chaos would have more variety.

A little disappointed that Monad wasn't a full deity.

Silver Crusade

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Dragon78 wrote:
Yeah, I agree, way too Psychopomp Ushers, not enough of the rest. Also it does annoy me that all the Protean Lords are genderfluid, you would think that beings from a realm of chaos would have more variety.

You don't get much more variety than genderfluid.


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I'm with Rysky on this, genderfluid is fine.

Also not sorry for having plenty of psychopomps, since their my all time favorite neutral creatures.

Still wonder about Fulgati and daemons, (especially Obcisidaemons).

Dark Archive

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Umm, yeah, none of other genders would fit for protean lords <_< Proteans are supposed to randomly change their forms, so why wouldn't that chaos apply to genders as well instead of having same one for thousand of years


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Nothing says Protean Lord or chaos to me more than genderfluid. Genderfluid is exactly as the name implies, there is no fixed gender. A person who is genderfluid prefers to remain flexible about their gender identity rather than committing to a single gender. They may fluctuate between genders or express multiple genders at the same time.

Dark Archive

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Creon Vizcarra wrote:
I suppose due to my previously stated ambivalence about Pharasma, I would have preferred more write-ups on Primal Inevitables and Protean Lords and fewer on Psychopomp Ushers.

Agreed. I really don't feel the need for a dozen 'demigods' with the Repose domain who one of the gods. Then again, I'm fine with them existing, it's just not content for me specifically. :)

I'd have liked some of the other neutral gods to have some demigods, if we were going that route.

God-level flunkies for Nethys (perhaps tied to the eight schools of magic, a la those demigods of the eight schools in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison, and with nothing to do with the aeon race) or Gozreh (genies of godlike power) could be interesting or even CN or LN gods like Calistria (elven hero-gods? an ascended Formian queen from a Calistria-worshipping hive of wasp-formians?) or Irori (spirit-gods of knowledge tied to the Akashic record, or formless masters of ancient skills or practices, such as the ultimate Healer or the master Craftsman or the grand Diplomat?) could have been an interesting expansion.

Plus more Proteans, obv. I love me some Proteans. :)


Set wrote:

I'd have liked some of the other neutral gods to have some demigods, if we were going that route.

God-level flunkies for Nethys (perhaps tied to the eight schools of magic, a la those demigods of the eight schools in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison, and with nothing to do with the aeon race) or Gozreh (genies of godlike power) could be interesting or even CN or LN gods like Calistria (elven hero-gods? an ascended Formian queen from a Calistria-worshipping hive of wasp-formians?) or Irori (spirit-gods of knowledge tied to the Akashic record, or formless masters of ancient skills or practices, such as the ultimate Healer or the master Craftsman or the grand Diplomat?) could have been an interesting expansion.

Plus more Proteans, obv. I love me some Proteans. :)

To be fair, I don't think more than a handful gods have a whole pantheon of demigods in their service.

Asmodeus and Pharasma are the only ones IIRC, ruling the Archdevils/Infernal Dukes/Malebranches and the Ushers respectively. Maybe the Elder Mythos' gods and demigods have this kind of relationship, but I'm surely uncertain.


The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Set wrote:

I'd have liked some of the other neutral gods to have some demigods, if we were going that route.

God-level flunkies for Nethys (perhaps tied to the eight schools of magic, a la those demigods of the eight schools in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison, and with nothing to do with the aeon race) or Gozreh (genies of godlike power) could be interesting or even CN or LN gods like Calistria (elven hero-gods? an ascended Formian queen from a Calistria-worshipping hive of wasp-formians?) or Irori (spirit-gods of knowledge tied to the Akashic record, or formless masters of ancient skills or practices, such as the ultimate Healer or the master Craftsman or the grand Diplomat?) could have been an interesting expansion.

Plus more Proteans, obv. I love me some Proteans. :)

To be fair, I don't think more than a handful gods have a whole pantheon of demigods in their service.

Asmodeus and Pharasma are the only ones IIRC, ruling the Archdevils/Infernal Dukes/Malebranches and the Ushers respectively. Maybe the Elder Mythos' gods and demigods have this kind of relationship, but I'm surely uncertain.

Plus the Speakers of the Depths and the protean lords. I don't think the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones have this sort of dynamic.


HTD wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Set wrote:
I'd have liked some of the other neutral gods to have some demigods, if we were going that route.

To be fair, I don't think more than a handful gods have a whole pantheon of demigods in their service.

Asmodeus and Pharasma are the only ones IIRC, ruling the Archdevils/Infernal Dukes/Malebranches and the Ushers respectively. Maybe the Elder Mythos' gods and demigods have this kind of relationship, but I'm surely uncertain.

Plus the Speakers of the Depths and the protean lords. I don't think the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones have this sort of dynamic.

Indeed, the Speakers do have their proteans lord followers. And this reminds me of the Godmind, overseeing Axis and the Primal Inevitables.

I'm actually surprised these two entities didn't get covered as a deity like the Monad was.

In my headcanon, the Speakers, the Godmind and the Monad are as powerful as true gods, they just don't want to focus on trivial matters like granting spells and answering followers.


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I can't say I do understand that the Ushers are the servants of Pharasma, and she is the head of a really big "company", so there's a need for lots of them, but I have to agree that more Primal Inevitables and Protean Lords would balance the content better.

I did like to know that we got informations about the Primal Inevitables that fell in battle (and I would like to get their names and areas of concern if possible). Yet again, no same treatment was given to the proteans, the ones I thought would win in numbers (as Chaos/the Maelstrom is rather prolific in my mortal assumption).

Dark Archive

Do we know for sure there ARE more than five of Protean Lords? (four described ones plus the one that disappeared into dimension of time along with primal inevitable who dragged them there)

Also, thing about Godmind is that doesn't it exist on only when axiomites are having a council?


CorvusMask wrote:

Do we know for sure there ARE more than five of Protean Lords? (four described ones plus the one that disappeared into dimension of time along with primal inevitable who dragged them there)

Also, thing about Godmind is that doesn't it exist on only when axiomites are having a council?

The back matter article of PF24 mentions at least 3 other protean lords by title. Planar Adventures has more information about the Speakers of the Depths and the Godmind (the former is a full deity with domains and subdomains provided, and the latter is not a god at all).

Dark Archive

Ah, that is the legacy of fire article were protean lords are from right?

But yeah, I agree it would have been nice to get protean equivalent to inevitable excerpt from concordance of rivals page. But only book of the damned got three full volumes before they got adapted into hardcover version, so that probably ain't gonna happen unless paizo decides to do chronicle and concordance hardcover in some far weird future where celestials and monitors are as popular and profitable as fiends

Dark Archive

While I'm not a huge Pharasma fan, I do think it makes sense that if the dozen daemon harbringer demigods (and their four horsemen) are her rivals in the soul-harvesting business, then it makes sense that she'd have quite a few demigod servants of her own to counter them.

(It is interesting that Pharasma keeps them so tightly on-theme. All of them have the Repose domain, for instance, where as 3 out of 4 Daemon Horsemen do not even offer the Death domain, and three out of the four Harbringers given Domain / Favored Weapon details in BotD3; Heralds of the Apocalypse up also don't bother to offer the Death domain.)

I just like the idea of demigod servants of other gods, like genie demigods in service to Gozreh or school-of-magic themed demigods for Nethys, or warrior-saints of Iomedae or whatever.

Zon-Kuthon and Lamashtu probably already have a bunch, with the various demigod-level Kyton Demagogues and Demon Lords (or Goblin Hero-Gods) out there.

Still, I'm also contrary by nature, and generally prefer;

A) lots of gods for lots of options of domain pairings and interesting favored weapons for Clerics. *At least* two choices for each alignment pairing.

B) less gods overall (perhaps with more domain choices, or even multiple favored weapon choices?), like the Dragonlance or Scarred Lands settings, after what kind of felt like the 'god bloat' of the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk, who had many pages (or even entire books) devoted to these fictional pantheons of competing gods with increasingly duplicated spheres of influence (oh, this one's the *halfling* god of nature, not to be confused with the human, gnomish, other human, elven, faux Egyptian human, or faux Asian human gods of nature...) or out-there areas of concern (he's the god of *fungus?* What, was 'god of refrigerator magnets' already taken?).

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