Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals

****½ (based on 3 ratings)
Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals

Add Print Edition $22.99

Add PDF $15.99

Facebook Twitter Email

Beyond Good and Evil

Monitors—neutral outsiders dedicated to maintaining their views of the universe—reject the battles between the wicked and the righteous and instead war over the underpinnings of reality. Join the cosmic debate with the secrets and esoteric lore found within, including:

  • Details on 24 monitor demigods—such as primal inevitables; protean lords; psychopomp ushers; and the mysterious aeon known as Monad, the Condition of All—and the divine powers they bestow upon mortal worshippers!
  • Rules for the proctor prestige class, along with information about different monitor sects, mantras for summoning monitors, and esoteric occult rituals that harness the power of monitor divinities.
  • A bestiary of new monitors and their roles within the universe, including irresponsible illureshi protean sorcerers, morbai psychopomp masters of healing and poisons, and knowledge-erasing agnoia aeons!

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals is intended for use with the Pathfinder campaign setting, but it can be easily adapted to any fantasy world.

ISBN-13: 978-1-64078-127-6

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscription.

Product Availability

Print Edition:

Available now

Ships from our warehouse in 1 to 5 business days.

PDF:

Fulfilled immediately.

Are there errors or omissions in this product information? Got corrections? Let us know at store@paizo.com.

PZO92114


See Also:

Average product rating:

****½ (based on 3 ratings)

Sign in to create or edit a product review.

Stuff I've always wanted

*****

So I've always wanted to have all Good/Neutral/Evil axis demigods fleshed outs and I've finally gotten that. Sure there are still some left that are still only mentioned only in bestiaries, but with this books, Primal Inevitables, Protean Lords, Psychopomp Ushers and the Monad finally have backstory info and other stuff :D

There are no class or feat options besides monitor obedience and proctor class in this nor is there items(artifact for Concordance of Rivals being absent is kinda weird, but it makes me hopeful it might appear in future AP or something), but that just means more room for flavor :D

I'm actually kinda surprised, but Primal Inevitables are now my favourite type of monitor lords. Machine gods have always been appealing to me, but reason I got into them was how as demigods of absolute law and order their areas of concerns are really mundane and structured. Like for example, one of missing ones was demigod of calendars.

My current ranking of monitor demigods is primal inevitabls > monad = psychopomp ushers > protean lords. Issue I have with proteans in general that as random shapeshifitng chaos beasts, they are ALL snakes with two legs, though third of the new introduced bestiary proteans finally strikes my fancy as while they still have serpentine shape, they are way more chaotic and weird looking than majority of other proteans.

In general, all of new bestiary monsters are great, flavorful and weird :D Only two of the proteans, while cool that they fill lower cr roles, seem kinda standard to me, rest of them are wonderfully weird to me.

I think thats good way to summarize this book, its wonderfully weird. All of monitor demigods are some of the most interesting neutral aligned deities in the whole game.

(plus Pharasma backstory is cool. Plus I'm now formulating conspiracy theory of there being two or three different Asmodeus and the one in hell just stole other ones' name as he is prince of lies)


Glad we got this before the edition change...

*****

It's a format Paizo has some experience with by now- the three volumes of the Book of the Damned, then the hardcover, the Chronicle of the Righteous- all the fingerprints of those books are on this one- but it's a more refined product than those earlier ones, benefiting from both greater experience- and more oddball subject matter.

The "monitors" (Monitor is to neutral outsider as Celestial is to good and Fiend is to evil) get codified a bit, and there, of course, some new faces, but the real meat of this sucker is in the various neutral-aligned Monitor demigod writeups.

Full disclosure: I'm a sucker for Psychopomps, so I found their Ushers the most engaging, but just about every category has something cool to run with.

It was also nice to see a bunch of demigods NOT saddled with Alignment domains for Clerics...


Lust for Gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

****( )

Zapp: I hate these filthy Neutrals, Kif. With enemies you know where they stand but with Neutrals, who knows? It sickens me.

I have been waiting for this book be published for years now, and it finally arrived on my door step.

The largest part of the book is dedicated to exploring the various demigods that by and by cause reality in the pathfinder world to function (ensuring that gravity works and that atoms spin) and so far I have enjoyed this section. Much love was poured into making each of these leaders among psychopomps, proteans, inevitables, and aeons.

I found the bestiary very enjoyable and was quite happy to see my beloved harbingers of chaos getting some much needed love and attention by overtaking around half the bestiary all to themselves.

My only major gripes rest with the player options section of the book. The proctor prestige class stat-wise seems to be fairly balanced in power to the prestige classes found in the Book of Damned and the Chronicles of the Righteous, I found the class requirement of having to willingly turn down the aid of a celestial or fiend to be circumstantial at best. It seems rather detrimental to deliberately summon a CR10 good or evil outsider just to deliberately refuse it's aid to fulfill a class requirement, as immortals of any alignment can hold grudges lasting far longer than any mortal lifetime.

My other gripe with this section was that it did not contain any magical items that were themed for those with a heart the color of freshly poured cement. Particularly the absence of the in-game stats for the Concordance of Rivals artifact. The sister volumes of the works of Tabris have stats in their own books and I thought it a shame that this, one of the final published works for 1E was missing such an iconic detail. I'm sure I could create my own version to reflect the artifacts of the prior books with the power to smite those with extremism in their hearts and spells that reflect a soul tinted by the color of slate, but I still find this absence of the key detail to be a disappointment.

All in all, I find the book an enjoyable. There is honestly enough fluff and potential plot hooks in this book to keep me and my players busy as we prepare to continue the epic struggle between good and neutral.


101 to 150 of 318 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>

The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
Aeons becoming LN, Inevitables no longer main LN outsider group, so many reasons not to get 2E it's not funny.
Don't think they are turning LN, just getting more attention.

Jacobs said in his thread they're turning LN.


Xenocrat wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
Aeons becoming LN, Inevitables no longer main LN outsider group, so many reasons not to get 2E it's not funny.
Don't think they are turning LN, just getting more attention.
Jacobs said in his thread they're turning LN.

Really? That's quite different from what I would expect.


That's an awesome cover we got there! What's that horrifying thing in the cover and is it holding the Concordance in its hand?

If that's the Concordance than it's my favorite book in the fictional reality. *o*

Paizo Employee Developer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

The figure on the cover is Saloc, who previously appeared in Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Distant Realms. They are holding the Concordance of Rivals.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Sweet! Saloc is cool. And yes I do love the cover plus the fact we're getting further details about the bestiary.

Contributor

6 people marked this as a favorite.

"Irresponsible illureshi protean sorcerers" :D


That sounds like something you'd write, Todd Stewart. :p ;)

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

So that cover of the concordance is eye surrounded by seven different colors? I'm kinda wondering what that is about .-.

Come to think about it, how many pages is this book compared to chronicles of righteous? I mean this one has 24 demigods, Chronicles had 50 according to shop blurb, but in chronicles they had half a page each, so if ones in this book get full page(or full two pages) that is nicely more content(especially considering amount of neutral outsider demigods is much smaller than celestial demigods).


It would be nice to get a page for each of them, given the fact that there are only 24 deities. That would also mean there's more space for more flavor, rules for the faithful and an amazing depiction of each of those.

I really hope that's the case... Besides, how many members does each of these groups have?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Going by the blurb, it would seem that the Monad is a demigod & not a full deity - which is a little disappointing, tbh...

Then again, it is the blurb, & blurbs tend to simplify things, so... <shrug>

Carry on,

--C.


Xenocrat wrote:
The Gold Sovereign wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
Aeons becoming LN, Inevitables no longer main LN outsider group, so many reasons not to get 2E it's not funny.
Don't think they are turning LN, just getting more attention.
Jacobs said in his thread they're turning LN.

The whole bunch turning LN would need one hell of a good explanation that isn't "we rewrote how alignments work again", especially if Pharasma remains TN, a 50/50 split would make more senses.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Not really? Aeons... haven't really done a whole lot, and they have no connection to Pharasma.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Rysky's right. Aeons have nothing to do with Pharasma; those are the psychopomps, which are staying neutral.

Dark Archive

I guess logic there was that "Pharasma could be considered LN for being the judge of life and death"? Not really sure


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Interesting cover art.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
CorvusMask wrote:
I guess logic there was that "Pharasma could be considered LN for being the judge of life and death"? Not really sure

Interestingly in Pathfinder 2nd edition Pharasma only allows clerics of NG, LN, and N alignments.

Dark Archive

First of all, I'm very happy that this book is being made!

Secondly, it seems that each of the major monitors has a true god, or something similar to it, over them.

Aeons- the Monad

Inevitables- the Axiomite God-Mind

Proteans- the Speakers of the Depths

Psychopomps- Pharasma

Lastly, I guess I'm somewhat saddened that they're doing away with Inevitables in 2e, though I won't be making the switch myself. Does anyone know if they will write them out, just use them a lot less, just ignore them?


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Creon Vizcarra wrote:

Lastly, I guess I'm somewhat saddened that they're doing away with Inevitables in 2e, though I won't be making the switch myself. Does anyone know if they will write them out, just use them a lot less, just ignore them?

It's been said that the inevitables will only lose their importance, but continue to be used.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Gorbacz wrote:


You'll be delighted to know that in PF2, aeons will become much prominent and will replace Inevitables as the main True Neutral outsider race.

Not really, as I have zero care or likes for PF2. Too soon and too different.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Creon Vizcarra wrote:


Lastly, I guess I'm somewhat saddened that they're doing away with Inevitables in 2e, though I won't be making the switch myself. Does anyone know if they will write them out, just use them a lot less, just ignore them?

Yet another on my massive checklist of why I will stay far from PF2e.

So what Outsider will be prominent for the Lawful Neutral? Don't say Axiomites, that's just one race. I like Inevitables because of how much variety there is/can be.

Dark Archive

Barachiel Shina wrote:
Creon Vizcarra wrote:


Lastly, I guess I'm somewhat saddened that they're doing away with Inevitables in 2e, though I won't be making the switch myself. Does anyone know if they will write them out, just use them a lot less, just ignore them?

Yet another on my massive checklist of why I will stay far from PF2e.

So what Outsider will be prominent for the Lawful Neutral? Don't say Axiomites, that's just one race. I like Inevitables because of how much variety there is/can be.

It has been said in this thread, that the developers has said Aeons will have their alignment switched to LN and will become the primary LN outsider.


James Jacobs wrote:
Rysky's right. Aeons have nothing to do with Pharasma; those are the psychopomps, which are staying neutral.

Unless the Aeons' raison d'être also change a lot, not really convinced about the need to switch their alignment.

and I mentioned Pharasma because of the similiraties she have with the Aeons.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Souls At War wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Rysky's right. Aeons have nothing to do with Pharasma; those are the psychopomps, which are staying neutral.

Unless the Aeons' raison d'être also change a lot, not really convinced about the need to switch their alignment.

and I mentioned Pharasma because of the similiraties she have with the Aeons.

There aren't really any similarities. Pharasma is mostly laser-focused on the death and journey of the souls thing, aeons are all over the topic of balance. They cooperate, but for rather different reasons: Pharasma wants the souls to reach their destination, aeons want to prevent soul-stealers from upsetting the balance.

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Yeah, though isn't aeons thing more of "ABSOLUTE" balance? Like "Oh no, now there are TOO few soul eaters stealing souls, there has to be more of them now"?

Like thats reason why I thought Aeons' being neutral was fitting for them: Their sense of logic, balance and order is way too alien to fit any of the alignments

Dark Archive

Huh. I just thought of one reason why Aeons being LN would make sense to me.

While Aeons are all about balance and stuff, they are more importantly about monitoring the multiverse and such. Which is part of reasons they don't care about good and evil since both good and evil planes are part of the multiverse. However, there ARE topics they always react aggressively to: Stuff like timetravel and such which damage the multiverse. They never react to time travel with "Oki, quota is alright, you can do whatever you want" its always getting rid of time traveler somehow. Hence why I could see them as being LN: Aeons would have reason to react badly to Maelstrom as Maelstrom is the erosion and destruction of multiverse, so as monitors and keepers of it they would have reason to combat it.


CorvusMask wrote:

Huh. I just thought of one reason why Aeons being LN would make sense to me.

While Aeons are all about balance and stuff, they are more importantly about monitoring the multiverse and such. Which is part of reasons they don't care about good and evil since both good and evil planes are part of the multiverse. However, there ARE topics they always react aggressively to: Stuff like timetravel and such which damage the multiverse. They never react to time travel with "Oki, quota is alright, you can do whatever you want" its always getting rid of time traveler somehow. Hence why I could see them as being LN: Aeons would have reason to react badly to Maelstrom as Maelstrom is the erosion and destruction of multiverse, so as monitors and keepers of it they would have reason to combat it.

The Maelstrom is an important part of both the River of Souls and the Working of the Multiverse.

while I do get the basic idea, it still doesn't give a good reason for all of them turning LN.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

All I know is psychopomps rule. :p

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Souls At War wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

Huh. I just thought of one reason why Aeons being LN would make sense to me.

While Aeons are all about balance and stuff, they are more importantly about monitoring the multiverse and such. Which is part of reasons they don't care about good and evil since both good and evil planes are part of the multiverse. However, there ARE topics they always react aggressively to: Stuff like timetravel and such which damage the multiverse. They never react to time travel with "Oki, quota is alright, you can do whatever you want" its always getting rid of time traveler somehow. Hence why I could see them as being LN: Aeons would have reason to react badly to Maelstrom as Maelstrom is the erosion and destruction of multiverse, so as monitors and keepers of it they would have reason to combat it.

The Maelstrom is an important part of both the River of Souls and the Working of the Multiverse.

while I do get the basic idea, it still doesn't give a good reason for all of them turning LN.

Oh, you're assuming that mortals and their souls are important in the grand picture, the one that aeons see. That's an interesting theory.

Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:
Souls At War wrote:
CorvusMask wrote:

Huh. I just thought of one reason why Aeons being LN would make sense to me.

While Aeons are all about balance and stuff, they are more importantly about monitoring the multiverse and such. Which is part of reasons they don't care about good and evil since both good and evil planes are part of the multiverse. However, there ARE topics they always react aggressively to: Stuff like timetravel and such which damage the multiverse. They never react to time travel with "Oki, quota is alright, you can do whatever you want" its always getting rid of time traveler somehow. Hence why I could see them as being LN: Aeons would have reason to react badly to Maelstrom as Maelstrom is the erosion and destruction of multiverse, so as monitors and keepers of it they would have reason to combat it.

The Maelstrom is an important part of both the River of Souls and the Working of the Multiverse.

while I do get the basic idea, it still doesn't give a good reason for all of them turning LN.

Oh, you're assuming that mortals and their souls are important in the grand picture, the one that aeons see. That's an interesting theory.

Yeaaaaaaah, Aeons don't "care" about mortals and souls, they care about their design on balance of universe <_< I wouldn't be surprised if Aeons were completely okay with undead because they are still part of the multiverse. (that said, there never has really been statement on what aeons think about undead so eh)


Campaign Setting book for PF2: Aeons Revisited

I suppose their alignment change is more than a call for an in deep revision of their lore in the setting.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

9 people marked this as a favorite.

It's almost entirely a result of us wanting to shift away from D&D's inventions, the inevitables, as the focus and instead to focus on our own inventions. The other option would have been to either make up an entirely new Lawful Neutral race (which was pretty unappealing to me at this time, since it's important for this race to have at least SOME established weight to the Great Beyond), or to expand the axiomite role to be an entire race, and that makes even less sense to me. With the role of Neutral outsiders being filled VERY well by psychopomps, and the role of the aeons being one that we've struggled with finding a place for, I think, it is the most logical and appealing choice, story-wise, for us at Paizo.

Folks will have to be a bit more patient to see the full story since I don't yet want to talk too much about 2nd edition stuff since we're still MONTHS away from that...


But we can talk about psychopomps right, James?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

14 people marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
But we can talk about psychopomps right, James?

Not only are psychopomps 100% an addition to Pathfinder made by us and not by WotC or D&D... but like angels and demons, they're real-world mythological concepts that have been around for a long long long time.

Of ALL the outsider races, innevitables are the ONLY one that has that poison pill combo of not having a real world mythology to draw from and not being something we made up. By rolling them in as part of aeons, effectivley, and then downplaying their role while increasing the aeon role, we not only allow ourselves to develop these concepts much easier in things beyond pen-and-paper RPG books, but it's also much more satisfying from an artistic and creative and brand standpoint.

EDIT: Realized I didn't actually answer the question. Yes, we can talk about psychopomps.

In fact, "we" (as in you and I and the rest of the internet) can talk about inevitables here too.

But "we" (as in Paizo) are more limited in being able to talk about inevitables in print. That's the problem this change fixes.

(Another option would be simply removing inevitables 100% from 2nd edition and paving them over and retconning into "They were never part of the setting at all." But that's too awkward and goes against my preference for keeping the edition change as subtle as possible from an in-world standpoint.)

Dark Archive

Plus you guys invented some really cool inevitables in War for the Crown bestiary entries so would be pity if paizo original inevitables never appear as well in any product

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

I could see the Inevitables as being something similar to the Manhunters from Green Lantern, a fine prototype but their single-minded focus on their particular enforcement led to greater problems. Eventually they were retired by the cosmos for the Aeons, capable of seeing multiple perspectives on their realms of enforcement (two IS more than one!)

But what do you do with a bunch of retired inevitables? I mean it's not like you can remove their purpose, will there be some kind of conflict?

I think it's... quite likely.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I just like the fact gods of the dead have a really nice feel when their servitors aren't like angels or demons. That's always been...problematic to me about a goodly number of D&D settings.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

I'm really excited to find out more about some protean lords in this! Also, more aeon content for my friend.

I do like that aeons seem like a better foil to proteans- it's lawful without being robotic, similar to how proteans are chaotic without being senseless.


James Jacobs wrote:

It's almost entirely a result of us wanting to shift away from D&D's inventions, the inevitables, as the focus and instead to focus on our own inventions. The other option would have been to either make up an entirely new Lawful Neutral race (which was pretty unappealing to me at this time, since it's important for this race to have at least SOME established weight to the Great Beyond), or to expand the axiomite role to be an entire race, and that makes even less sense to me. With the role of Neutral outsiders being filled VERY well by psychopomps, and the role of the aeons being one that we've struggled with finding a place for, I think, it is the most logical and appealing choice, story-wise, for us at Paizo.

Folks will have to be a bit more patient to see the full story since I don't yet want to talk too much about 2nd edition stuff since we're still MONTHS away from that...

Already know, but this still doesn't answer the "all or nothing" part of it.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Souls At War wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

It's almost entirely a result of us wanting to shift away from D&D's inventions, the inevitables, as the focus and instead to focus on our own inventions. The other option would have been to either make up an entirely new Lawful Neutral race (which was pretty unappealing to me at this time, since it's important for this race to have at least SOME established weight to the Great Beyond), or to expand the axiomite role to be an entire race, and that makes even less sense to me. With the role of Neutral outsiders being filled VERY well by psychopomps, and the role of the aeons being one that we've struggled with finding a place for, I think, it is the most logical and appealing choice, story-wise, for us at Paizo.

Folks will have to be a bit more patient to see the full story since I don't yet want to talk too much about 2nd edition stuff since we're still MONTHS away from that...

Already know, but this still doesn't answer the "all or nothing" part of it.

Well, then maybe ask again or rephrase so I can try to address that? I don't know what you mean here by "all or nothing," but I suspect that what you're looking for is an answer we aren't ready to give yet since 2nd edition isn't yet here (see my "Folks will have to be a bit more patient..." comment at the end of my prior post above).

Liberty's Edge

James, will this book reflect this change to Aeons?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Paladinosaur wrote:
James, will this book reflect this change to Aeons?

Wasn't directly involved in its writing or development, so I'm honestly not sure, but I doubt any more than Planar Adventures did, which did a little but not much.


James Jacobs wrote:
Souls At War wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

It's almost entirely a result of us wanting to shift away from D&D's inventions, the inevitables, as the focus and instead to focus on our own inventions. The other option would have been to either make up an entirely new Lawful Neutral race (which was pretty unappealing to me at this time, since it's important for this race to have at least SOME established weight to the Great Beyond), or to expand the axiomite role to be an entire race, and that makes even less sense to me. With the role of Neutral outsiders being filled VERY well by psychopomps, and the role of the aeons being one that we've struggled with finding a place for, I think, it is the most logical and appealing choice, story-wise, for us at Paizo.

Folks will have to be a bit more patient to see the full story since I don't yet want to talk too much about 2nd edition stuff since we're still MONTHS away from that...

Already know, but this still doesn't answer the "all or nothing" part of it.
Well, then maybe ask again or rephrase so I can try to address that? I don't know what you mean here by "all or nothing," but I suspect that what you're looking for is an answer we aren't ready to give yet since 2nd edition isn't yet here (see my "Folks will have to be a bit more patient..." comment at the end of my prior post above).

Why all of them turn LN instead of something like a 50/50 split?


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Souls At War wrote:


Why all of them turn LN instead of something like a 50/50 split?

Oceania has always been at war with East Asia.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Souls At War wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Souls At War wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

It's almost entirely a result of us wanting to shift away from D&D's inventions, the inevitables, as the focus and instead to focus on our own inventions. The other option would have been to either make up an entirely new Lawful Neutral race (which was pretty unappealing to me at this time, since it's important for this race to have at least SOME established weight to the Great Beyond), or to expand the axiomite role to be an entire race, and that makes even less sense to me. With the role of Neutral outsiders being filled VERY well by psychopomps, and the role of the aeons being one that we've struggled with finding a place for, I think, it is the most logical and appealing choice, story-wise, for us at Paizo.

Folks will have to be a bit more patient to see the full story since I don't yet want to talk too much about 2nd edition stuff since we're still MONTHS away from that...

Already know, but this still doesn't answer the "all or nothing" part of it.
Well, then maybe ask again or rephrase so I can try to address that? I don't know what you mean here by "all or nothing," but I suspect that what you're looking for is an answer we aren't ready to give yet since 2nd edition isn't yet here (see my "Folks will have to be a bit more patient..." comment at the end of my prior post above).
Why all of them turn LN instead of something like a 50/50 split?

Because that doesn't solve the need for a devoted/dedicated lawful neutral outsider race to fill the gap already held by Angels/Azatas/Archons/Proteans/Psychopomps/Devils/Daemons/Demons.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I would say I "get" and approve of the "retcon" of Aeons to be LN in 2e,
and this is from somebody who disapproves of certain Paizo setting tendencies.
I could dwell on the inadvisability of taking ANY product of inherently subjective setting designers as objective truth in first place,
but I think what is more interesting is the latent question of the nature of "Alignment Combinations"
i.e. LN as obligatory measurement of 2 axis, which could be more Lawful or more Neutral,
but to some extent begging the question: fundamentally WHY must we always have 2 Alignments if one axis is irrelevant?

Going to 2e, I would ask would it be more fruitful to allow "just Lawful" as alignment, rather than muddy the waters re: Neutral?
Even if we wish mortals and normal creaturs to always have 2-axis alignment, could not beings of pure single alignment exist?

Along with that, more strongly carving out identity of "True Neutral" seems to hold a latent promise,
which might fold into allowing "just Lawful" (/Chaotic/Good/Evil) by Lawful Neutral being more Lawful-True Neutral,
while "just Lawful" was the part of old (current) Lawful-Neutral which was "Lawful and Grey on Good-Evil Axis".
That somewhat means Alignment isn't quite as reducable to a "grid", but I feel that might be a feature more than bug...

How Golarion Setting Team will be impacting 2e rules is interesting topic in many areas,
but especially as Cleric/Deity Alignment issues are seeing a significant shake-up, I'd be intested how
this development in area of Lawful/Neutral might impact things around Lawful Deities/Portfolios and the like,
and perhaps if (True) Neutrality might actually see explicit specific invocation in terms of Core Portfolios...
Unlike previous editions where Neutral on 1/2 Axis just meant you got more non-Alignment Domains,
which were usually more "interesting" but the concept of positive (True) Neutrality was never directly addressed.

Dark Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Umm, in pathfinder neutral means lack of alignment. Which means LN is essentially L alignment. Its not "Either L or N" alignment.


CorvusMask wrote:
Umm, in pathfinder neutral means lack of alignment.

It doesn't mean that at all. Neutral has it's own version of Holy Aura/Holy Word, and a strongly aligned neutral plane puts penalties on those who aren't neutral.

A rock (on the material plane...) lacks an alignment; a N animal, elemental, human, or god does not.

Dark Archive

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Well if you want exact term, neutral is "unaligned" :p

All strongly aligned neutral plane means is that it gives penalties to everyone who IS aligned.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I tend to think of Neutral as uncaring about the specific alignment axis on which they have the Neutral middle-ground.

Lawful Neutral is the one that puts Law above everything and does not care a iota about either Evil nor Good.


I like the Aeon concept but isn't there a race that got added recently that kind of works a bit better for an Inevitable replacement? The Automatons from the Jistka Imperium...actually on second thought there are too few of them aren't there.

101 to 150 of 318 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Paizo / Product Discussion / Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Concordance of Rivals All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.