Souls At War's page

As a side note, the "get latest adventure path" button still point to Spore War.

Souls At War wrote:

Arkat wrote:

Souls At War wrote:

You are looking at this from Asmodeus' perspective, not House Thrune's...

Asmodeus is a god, so his perspective is the most important one.

Remember that mortals tend to be full of themselves.

*Channeling Red of Overly Sarcastic Productions*

"Hubris: It's okay when the gods do it."

More realistically, it depends on what House Thrune has to offer. Asmodeus certainly wouldn't be willing to renegotiate the terms of the contract with House Thrune for "less" than what he gets out of it currently, but that's only if House Thrune is offering "less".

If House Thrune can get their hands on something that Asmodeus values more than what he currently gets out of their contract, then they may have a viable bargaining position.

Or House Thrune simply doesn't want to risk the contract going to someone else.

Souls At War wrote:

You are looking at this from Asmodeus' perspective, not House Thrune's...

Asmodeus is a god, so his perspective is the most important one.

Remember that mortals tend to be full of themselves.

Souls At War wrote:

Could be less "overthrowing" and more about renegotiations.

So you think there's a possibility Asmodeus would settle for something LESS than the Thrunes' souls?

I'm assuming, of course, that those were the only things (besides the "Soul of Cheliax," whatever the heck that is :eyeroll: ) that were promised to Hell.

You are looking at this from Asmodeus' perspective, not House Thrune's...

There are probably powers in Hell who wouldn't mind a change in leadership (like Erecura's whole deal is "she's up to something, but you won't find out until too late to do anything about it") but I would be surprised if any of them figure this is the right time to make their move.

It's probably faster to list who is loyal to Asmodeus by this point, so that.

The Raven Black wrote:

And now I wonder if Abby wants to use the warshards AGAINST Hell.

Or maybe to attempt a coup there.

You'd think her two minders would catch wind of that and steer her away from such plots.

Planning to overthrow and takeover Isger or Andoran is one thing, overthrowing Asmodeus is a whole different ballgame.

Abrogail II isn't even Mythic. How the heck is she going to takeover Hell?

Those Warshards had better be VERY powerful!

Could be less "overthrowing" and more about renegotiations.

Veltharis wrote:

I mean, that's assuming Asmodeus wasn't using Moloch as a backchannel to leak the information to Szuriel in the first place.

This is possible. I guess, if Abrogail the First was smart, she could have insisted on an NDA for the contract. Whether she did or not remains to be seen.

Veltharis wrote:

Whether Asmodeus actually wants House Thrune to default or simply wants to put some extra pressure on them, I think it's safe to assume the contract is set up in a way where Asmodeus benefits either way.

This is also a good point. But it sure seems like the Thrunes did such a masterful job with the contract that I don't expect there to be any "gotcha" clauses in it. The contract has been in effect for 85 years and neither side has complained about its terms for that period as far as I know. If something was a problem in it, I expect it would have surfaced before now.

Sure, Asmodeus makes out either way. He makes out if both parties keep their bargains and he makes out if the Thrunes default.

The only way Asmodeus doesn't make out if he doesn't keep HIS end of the bargain.

If I were Asmodeus, for sure I'd keep my promises. That way, I'd always win.

The whole Kintargo thing was Abrogail the first doing, and barely anyone knew about it, so there could be other hidden (read, forgotten) gotcha like it.

Archpaladin Zousha wrote:

The book doesn't elaborate, but given the language used (namely, "default") it seems what this Rider (Owyn Darkoath by name, now that I can reference the book again) hopes that the war will force Abrogail II into a position where she can no longer hold up her end of the bargain, which I imagine would mean helping steer things so Cheliax loses BADLY. Given that at that stage, Cheliax would basically no longer be able to prosecute any war, the goal is for the victors of the conflict to be immediately forced into battle with basically a Hellish invasion of Golarion while they're battered and tired from fighting Cheliax. The whys of the war aren't important to Owyn. Just the eventual scale of it.

Ok, sure Owyn Darkoath is riding around along the Cheliax/Andoran border hoping to stir up trouble. Fine.

That still doesn't explain HOW he's going to force Thrune to default on the contract.

AFAIK, only one condition of the contract has ever been disclosed by Paizo - that is it has to be renewed yearly in the Barrowood. (See Paizo #106 starting on page 41)

As I said earlier, unless there's some other undisclosed part of the contract that can also be disrupted, I just don't see Paizo getting Mr. Darkoath to disrupt the yearly ritual to renew the Thrunes' contract with Hell. BTW, the Barrowood isn't anywhere near Andoran, so that's even more reason the rider is going to try something else.

THAT's what I'm curious about. What other provision is there in the contract he thinks he can mess up on Thrune's part? Even more importantly, how did he find out about this provision? It isn't like he could just fill out a FOIA request and get a copy of the contract he could then peruse.

Guess we will have to wait and see what Paizo has planned then.

Souls At War wrote:

Both Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance gave at least one way to break/null the contract.

And my question is more about Hell needing the contract with House Thrune.

It's clear that House Thrune won't break the Kintargo Contract. If they were going to, they would have done it long before now.

Regarding the Hell's Vengeance AP, I suppose an outsider could interfere with renewing the Thrune contract with Hell, but I doubt Paizo would try to go that route again. Re-using a plot like that just smacks of poor storytelling and/or laziness.

You do raise a decent point about Hell needing House Thrune but, again, Thrune has a contract. Unless Thrune explicitly breaks it, I guarantee you Hell will comply with it regardless.

Is it possible that some devil gets a third party to cause House Thrune to break their contract with Asmodeus? Sure. But, again, Paizo already tried that particular plot. I doubt they'd do it again.

It's indirectly implied that Asmodeus can transfer the contract to someone else, and that there might be a bypass to needing Thrune's consent, but there might also be some extra clauses regarding the souls of House Thrune that make this a potential loss for Hell.

Souls At War wrote:

So there is a possibility Hell has less and less need for House Thrune.

Maybe. But Abrogail II has a contract.

Hell has to figure out a way to get her to break the contract because they sure as heck aren't going to.

And there isn't going to be any weaselly unknown loopholes in the contract that Hell is going to be able to exploit to get out of their bargain, either.

No, Abrogail will have to affirmatively and unquestionably BREAK it.

Good luck with that.

Both Hell's Rebels and Hell's Vengeance gave at least one way to break/null the contract.

And my question is more about Hell needing the contract with House Thrune.

From the Hellfire Crisis page : "prevent the diabolic forces of Hell from overtaking the world."

Maybe Hell is getting tired of Cheliax keeping on losing. So the devils arrange behind the scenes for an excuse to take a far more active hand in the setting.

Kinda goes with what I asked in the revious page:

So there is a possibility Hell has less and less need for House Thrune.

From a meta standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Cheliax isn't quite in a position to throw its weight around if it doesn't have to, and if it was the aggressor Andoran would gain a lot of support because everyone would want this over quickly and nobody wants the devils to get a win. Andoran being the aggressor changes the dynamic, because a lot of countries aren't too sure about its political system and because it already has few qualms about asserting itself. Oh yeah, and there's a super lich who is going to be a huge headache soon, so starting something unnecessary now will not be well received.

and the Glorious Reclamation fiasco is still relatively recent, it could weight in many people decisions/indecisions.

I mean, "getting Isger out from under the thumb of Cheliax" is itself a noble goal. Like Isger is literally "not part of Cheliax" so it's reasonable to think that they shouldn't be as beholden to Thrune as they have been of late.

Probably if I was to anticipate an endgame here it's less that Thrune is deposed or Cheliax is under the control of Hell itself or alternatively good people, but that Isger becomes an independent state/satellite state of Andoran.

Among other things, that can bring two questions/scenarios to mind:

Torrent and Nail are based out of Cheliax, so it kinda make senses they would say no.

Still curious about Scourge, who should oppose this, but maybe not publicly, and Gate who is usually the other "screw politic" order.

and maybe Crux, dilemma between hating other Hellknights and liking the idea of being a death-squad again?

Watching the PaizoCon Keynote and Hellfire Crisis panels.

Seems Abrogail's response to Eagle Knights kicking the Order of the Rack out of Breachill is to officially nationalize the Hellknight orders as agents of the Chelaxian state.

Not sure how I feel about that...

EDIT: They mention a bit later that some of the orders refuse to submit to the crown, so there are still some independent Hellknights out there. They specifically called out the Orders of the Torrent and Nail as such.

Odd, the Order of the Scourge should also have issues with all of that.

Seeing similarities with the Glorious Reclamation thing.

keftiu wrote:

Andoren troops in Isger feels like quite the escalation to one Andoren citizen's execution - by Hellknights, not even Chelish troops!

The reason this is a good Casus belli is that Hellknights are not de jure agents of the Chellish state, but it's easy to see many contexts of them being seen as de facto agents of Thrune.

Like there has to be a compelling reason for the two sides not to prefer to deescalate. Cheliax is justified in saying that they are not responsible for Hellknights, and cannot tolerate Andoran troops that close to their border, after all.

and the Order of the Rack is more "loyal" to Thrune than most if I remember correctly.

Souls At War wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

It genuinely feels unlikely that Cheliax is going to prevail here, since the Pathfinder Society is throwing its weight against Cheliax (what with Thrune closing the lodges in her country) and we know how much weight they carry in the metaplot.

While Cheliax is one of the few that outright kicked them out, many nations would like the Pathfinder Society to be more careful, then there is the Aspis thing.

The observation that "whichever side the Pathfinder Society ends up on is likely to prevail" is less about actual geopolitics and more that the actions of the Pathfinder Society in the metaplot will he modeled in PFS scenarios and you don't really want to just tell your dedicated organized play people that everything they did was pointless due to editorial fiat.

Like when PFS sets out to do something over the course of a season, that thing usually happens.

Maybe we shouldn't conflate Pathfinder Society the faction with Society Play here.

Question could also be asked about a dedicated Campaign Setting board/sub-forum.

Almost sound like a thread about Space Amish. Curse you TV Tropes!

For the gods stuff, it is useful to remember Pathfinder and Starfinder don't have "Over-Deities"

It genuinely feels unlikely that Cheliax is going to prevail here, since the Pathfinder Society is throwing its weight against Cheliax (what with Thrune closing the lodges in her country) and we know how much weight they carry in the metaplot.

While Cheliax is one of the few that outright kicked them out, many nations would like the Pathfinder Society to be more careful, then there is the Aspis thing.

And the mess with the Glorious Reclamation is still recent, so even some of Thrune's detractors might tell Andoran the shove it, especially if they know about the Lumber Consortium BS.

Alzira is lacking an Unholy Symbol of Camazotz.

UpliftedBearBramble wrote:

We did our usual discussion for Book 1, and we were looking for that megadungeon. I assume it's in book 2 and 3, so compared to Otari and Abmonation vaults the only other 2E megadungeon we're getting less.

The majority of the book seems like troubles in Otari, and under Otari for the little missions to help introduce people to the game and general combat. Those were separate from the megadungeon before, that means the MD we're getting here is significantly smaller for the same price.

This argument is in incredibly bad faith. You’re not getting less of an adventure for the same price — it’s not like the book is blank. You’re just getting a different type of adventure than in book 1 of Abomination Vaults. If you’re trying to argue that this shouldn’t have been marketed as a megadungeon, then I would disagree with that too, as it’s not like it’s inherently bad spending book 1 getting the PCs to care about the town next to the megadungeon they’re going to spend the next 2 books exploring.

To be honest, the player's guide could have done expectations management and explanations a bit better.

Like I said, I find PbP and live sessions (fortnightly anyway) can be roughly equivalent. It's helpful to know that you run long sessions, though, that also partly explains the quick pace.

For example, 8 or 9 weekly 6-hour sessions for an AP book is around 48-54 hours of play. Similarly, my AV and Empires Devoured sessions (as a player and GM, respectively) tend to run around 3-4 hours. So if we finish Empires Devoured in 12-13 shorter sessions, that's around the same amount of gameplay (call it 40-52 hours). And AV took us roughly 8 months per book, but that was only about 13-14 sessions probably. Still roughly in the 42-54 hour range. No idea how long it took us to finish book 2 but it was probably around that.

So I'm guessing a 6-book AP is around 250-300 hours of gameplay.

Getting back to the topic, I suppose I'd like to see more stories in the ~100 hour range, that's about 25-30 sessions which you can do in a year and change with fortnightly sessions and accounting for real life.

As a total aside, a rough conversion for play-by-post is one hour equals one week (I tend to run a bit faster, 3 weeks to 4 hours-ish), so you'd probably be looking at one book every 7-10 months. Roughly equivalent to fortnightly 3-4 hour sessions.

Can be useful to remember that not everyone play at the same pace, so how much development/advancement happen in the same span of time will vary.

The Raven Black wrote:

I have sometimes read that 3-parters felt a bit rushed and could have been developed more.

Some of them do. That said, some of the 6-parters feel padded.

Partly why I think they could consider mixing 4 and 5 parters in once in a while, especially if/when hitting "too much for 3, but not enough for 6".

Edit: as a side note, I wonder how people feel about slow burn types like Council Of Thieves.

nephandys wrote:

Is anyone else getting a bad feeling about the upcoming changes to the loyalty program? The way it’s been described so far - lots of vague “coming soon” language and talk of a “better experience” - just screams corpo-speak for we’re cutting benefits, but trying to make it sound like a good thing.

Let’s be honest: when companies say they’re “enhancing” or “evolving” a program to “better serve us,” it usually translates to more restrictions, fewer rewards, or a new tier system that’s harder to climb. They frame it as a win for the customer, but it almost always serves their bottom line, not ours.

Until they drop actual details, there’s no way to know for sure, but the language so far feels like a red flag. If the changes were genuinely beneficial, they probably wouldn’t be so cagey or need to spin it this hard. They'd be shouting them from the rooftops instead of deferring them for a future blog.

Would love to be wrong on this, but right now it feels like we’re being softened up for a downgrade.

I know that feeling, but usually Paizo is a good company, somehow an exception among the big names in the hobby industry.

They might also be cagey due to things out of their control.

I say this as someone who currently exclusively uses the forums to socialize about Pathfinder stuff and currently does not participate in organized play at all: The org play stuff needs overhauls much more, I think priorities are misplaced on that one. That is, unless the reason for prioritizing the forums is mostly or entirely to do with the company's internal needs (i.e. easier moderation, easier reporting and removal of spam/harassment, better for the blog, etc.), in which case I do think it is warranted.

After the 4chan hack, I would say that improved security is both external and internal needs, but also something that was probably already on the "to do" list anyway.

Since the primary point of switching to 4 Adventure Paths a year was to give folks additional chances to like one enough to want to buy it, swtiching back to 3 would erode that goal while not appealing to folks who want full 1–20 level six-part Adventure Paths. Seems like a solution that would disappoint everyone but also give us on the Narrative team another dose of disruptions to the workflow, so I don't see this happening.

Still something that can be talked about, especially when wanting to try experimental ideas/APs.

On 12 volumes a year:
* 1 x 12 (would be slow, and the thing about variety)
* 2 x 6, what was used before.
* 3 x 4
* 4 x 3, currently used.
* 6 x 2, kinda short
* 12 x 1, OK, that's pretty much standalone modules.
some combo like 2 + 3 + 3 + 4 or 3 + 4 + 5.

And with a dose of "themes in APs", branching/splitting AP, granted those would probably be an headache to make.

My point being, you are coming at this from an "Order/Law is good, chaos is bad" perspective, thus further making the differentiation between "holy vs. Unholy meaningless.

Pointed out before that the Nine Alignments system was a way to avoid that, at least technically.

Zoken44 wrote:

Except now there are no forces of law and chaos.

Not true actually. To our knowledge Axiomites and Proteans haven't ceased their conflict and their ideals haven't changed either. They just don't deal damage types powered by their ideologies anymore because Paizo technically doesn't have the rights to do that (without using the OGL which is the thing they don't want to do)

There might be ways around that, but Law/Chaos is apparently less interesting than Good/Evil.

The Neutral alignments on either axis were also underutilised and often misinterpreted/misunderstood.

Expectation management: Will Liralarue get mentioned or show up?

bit more snarky... decided on the fourth R Of The RuneLords yet?

The Raven Black wrote:

Arkat wrote:

I think that you have to consider that Shen Ra is right there guarding the throne.

NOBODY is going to resort to violence while someone has made it to the throne room with the intent of finding out whether they're worthy enough to sit in the throne as the new emperor.

Shen Ra has blasted many unworthies in the past. I'm pretty sure they're not going to let anyone else (Oracular Council) essentially make the decision for them.

I believe Shen Ra would deem anyone who cannot get past the Oracular Council as unworthy anyway.

I suspect Shen Ra isn't on anybody's payroll, except maybe Shizuru's.

Keep in mind that every single candidate the Oracular Council sent up to sit on the throne has been blasted into a pile of dust.

In fact, I suspect the Oracular Council and Shen Ra are very much at odds with each other. I'm guessing the only reason Shen Ra hasn't blasted them too is because none of them is foolish enough to sit on the Five Dragon throne.

Considering the Oracular Council's reaction to the mere concept that the Eternal Emperor could be reborn elsewhere in Tian Xia, they are definitely at odd with each others.

I think the restriction is on if you are sanctified, spells that have the trait opposite to your sanctification are anathema. So if you are a Besmara worshiper who is Holy, Unholy spells would be anathema to you, and vice versa. At least that's how I would rule it.

I think the old Law/Chaos divider is genuinely unnecessary. A vestige left over from D&D. Especially because even if you get into "Chaos" a character being "chaotic" could be further put onto a spectrum of Ambivalent or Apathetic. The difference there is the difference in the chaos of Deadpool, who is chaotic because the things he cares about are mercurial, but he cares passionately, and Joker, who doesn't care about anything because to him nothing matters (Toxic Nihilism)

The subdivider is Good vs Evil to a degree, kinda to avoid the "Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil" thing many games had.

The issue with D&D and Pathfinder was that most of the focus was on the Good/Evil axis with Law/Chaos often barely there, and Neutral an after-thought a good deal of the time.

Useful to remember that there are people in Isger who want to throw Cheliax out, so a lot of opportunities for many factions and sides.

I think there's also a big separation between say chromatic and metallic dragons.

And another thing that factors in (that I'm not sure we know much about) is how many eggs do dragons typically lay?

In general (but not an absolute rule by far) is that creatures that have many young, tend to be less involved with them. And creatures with fewer young tend to take more care of them.

It's different evolutionary strategies, one of "if I have enough of them, some of them statistically will survive to adult hood". I think chromatic dragons might fall into this category.

While metallic dragons might achieve success by investing a lot into a single egg/child and being heavily involved.

For number vs care, there are difference between large hive types and smaller clutch types, and smaller clutches can vary a lot.

Honestly, I'd write her as not giving holy or unholy...but that turns her into a really bad choice for a cleric, and I'm not even sure how it'd work mechanically. They downplayed the role of law and chaos in PF2, but for deities like Besmara where the chaos part was the strongest portion of her alignment, it leaves her in an awkward spot.

Maybe one day (PF3?) we'll get Order and Disorder sanctifications and creatures with weaknesses and resistance to it.

This was kind of an issue in PF1 as well, and sort of inherited from DnD.

For the sanctification thing, maybe some rule patch/append.

Thread reminds me I once thought of ways to get half-dragons that don't depend on the dragon-daddy thing, which seems to be the default assumption, and the idea of female dragons leaving their eggs unguarded for a few hours at the time does provide some opportunities.

I honestly think not enough attention is paid to the fact that ALL temples to Cayden Cailean are bars. Combined with his popularity among people of almost all classes, and I almost wonder if a fully secular bar might only exist in Rahadoum!

Same thing with Calistria and brothels, actually. And Abadar's banks. And forges for Torag, even beyond dwarven ones.

Religion plays a MUCH bigger role in the everyday goings-on of Golarion when so many places for work and leisure can be owned and operated by various churches, but I feel sometimes that gets barely touched on, even WHEN you're playing a cleric!

Of those three, Banks are the only one with a strong divine connection, other deities have some interests in brothels, like Urgathoa, and some brothels operate without a divine patron, forges also have Droskar (Dwarf) and Minderhal (Giant) among others, and some forges either rely on other divine patrons or none.

It IS unusual for volume 1 of an Adventure Path to be available before a Player's Guide is. That's not the norm, and we try not to do that, but... sometimes reality has other complications in mind, I guess.

Was it Hell's Vengeance? One of them was cursed; big site update 2 days before street/release date, which wasn't a good idea, especially since pretty much all product lines had a release, and an Humble Bundle sale that caused a catastrophic increase in trafic to the site, which did result in quite the crash... and a player's guide that was released closer to book 2 as a result.

Edit: might have been "War for the Crown"

Regarding Templates...they are for monsters...not for characters. I had this discussion a while ago with a player and showed him where it says this, Im hoping you dont make me hunt it up again ;)

Some of them can be applied to humanoids/PCs, and some of those do show up during the AP.

On another note, I will be bowing out of this one.

Would you mind linking the Player's Guide or whatever it is we'd need?

@I'm Hiding in Your Closet: On your Paizo page, if you place your cursor over "My Account" a list pops up and you'll click on "Digital Content".

You'll see a full list of Player's Guides. Just scroll down until you find CC. Once you do, click on it and download and you'll have it. :) *thumbs up*

Carrion Crown Player's Guide since I'm not sure those are automatically added to download.

Few questions:
- How will you handle age categories?
- Young Characters?
- Templates?

My headcanon is ~snip~

I think you posted that in the wrong thread.

I will admit, I have quite a negative view on the classic pirates, given I have readen up on how gruesome that got. So I do appriciate this

Many works of fictions depict them in darker light, especially when they are up against armies/navies depicted as knights in shining armors type. Granted, some Pirates were just that bad.

To be honest, many Neutral Deities feel/felt closer to Evil than actual neutrality.

Claxon wrote:

The "take what you want" but "be loyal to your crew" part I think is what keeps Besmaran adherents from going full murder hobo.

Also, if you look at history, pirates usually didn't want to kill their targets. Because if you became notorious for killing your prey, they would fight harder and to the death (if they thought their only way out alive was to kill you). Ideally pirates just want their prey to surrender and give over their stuff.

And stealing is bad, but like, not as bad as murder.

You hit the nail on the head

I completly aggree with you

My question is not, can there be non-evil pirates, that I aggree with
I am talking specifically Holy (good aligned) Clerics of a Goddess of PIracy. Someone who has good intentions but will only raid and plunder as their lifes work. How would THAT work

Jack is a fun guy, but I wouldn't call him a really morally upstanding person.

While Good vs Evil is one thing, it can be useful to remember the whole Law vs Chaos part, and maybe avoid conflating Good with Law and Evil with Chaos.

Also, Robin Hood as a "good thief"

Yeah, that's one of the few who does suffer from changes in editions, rules, terms, etc.

Worked well with Positive Energy / Heal vs Negative Energy / Harm, but not that well with the connotations of the Holy/Unholy terminology.

Also, what Claxon pointed out.

For what it's worth, Abadar's been associated with monkeys as a sacred animal since around the early 90s when I first created him for my homebrew campaign.

A less cheeky reply is to note that for the best and most accurate canonical answers to things like this, print products are the place to go to first. When there's discrepancies, skew toward the most recent printed products for accuracy.

We don't know how Abadar was in your homebrew, so hard to judge.

But I kind of agree with OP that monkey is an odd choice, even among other primates.

I would also like to point out that Casmaron should absolutely give us the ability to create harpies. We already have similar flying peoples, and it would be completely wrong to deprive us of such capabilities with harpies, especially considering that they are one of the first things that come to mind when we think of flying creatures in fantasy.

Curious how those get balanced compared to others.

id prefer age of ashes or agents of edgewatch, SoG is really good as is

AoE is an interesting case, it wasn't well received, which would normally DQ it from a compilation/remaster, yet it is one AP that could gain a lot from a remaster.

GM Cthulhu wrote:

My party is slowly working their way to Gallowspire.

Some fights were childishly easy: The Pallis Sunrise had a feeble AC of 20 and lasted about two rounds after the party used the Wand of Communal Protection from Energy (fire). The Tempest Guards were sitting ducks to area effect spells. Otto Canrivash was wiped out after someone used invisibilty purge early on. The various graveknights encountered haven't been much of a challenge either.

Next week they'll encounter Tycha Ghuzmaar. He could be nasty if he can use his death attack in, but his stealth is such that he will probably be seen before he can get his three rounds of study in. I think I'll give him a potion of invisibility to give him a boost. If I don't, I think that fight will be too easy as well.

Tycha's not going to stand and fight to second death. He's gonna run. I also gave him the same out [invisibility] so that he could show up w/ Amaretos [and negotiated his escape by showing them how to turn off the portal thingys... just to return and betray the party when they finally left the dungeon, along w/ one of the other Council Libertine [the mounted one from the surface] had resurrected [lucky me! I rolled a 2 for the # of days for her to return!]]

One GK is a pushover. But two of them make for a great challenge, w/ the different energy damages and their unique immunities and attacks. We even got to a point w/ the Tycha / Amaretos fight where they were back to back against the party, and got to yell, "Just like the old days!" to give them some characterization.

[was missing your updates! hoped you hadn't dropped your campaign!]

Main challenge with GraveKnights is that they are hard to permanently get rid of... they are also supposed to be leaders of armies of undeads, but this rarely get used.

For some things, the degree of success of failure is known, but perhaps not what the effect is. Is Unrest or Ruin going to increase by some amount? Is a hostile army going to get a bonus? etc.

This is pretty much what JJ, Tridus and I are talking about, it would be after the "you succeed/fail", but before describing what it means/does and any extra roll(s).

Souls At War wrote:

Magic Butterfly wrote:

I was reading through the LO: Tian Xia book and noticed that, canonically, Ameiko has not used the seals to rebuild the other four Imperial Families of Minkai. I know that this is likely because the assumption is that the PCs of Jade Regent would take on those roles, and that this can't be in canon, but I also think that could be a cool adventure.

Isn't the canon reason being the the PCs were already made backup scions?

I think there is a different concern. I think it is about having Minkaian characters.

Someone was asking why the PC don't become scions of the other families, if I remember correctly, characters can't be scions of more than one family, and the PCs were already made scions of one.

Thank you, so basically it's an optional reroll with a +2 circumstance bonus, but the GM is not allowed to tell you the outcome (most likely only applies to events then)

the GM is allowed to tell the outcome of the second roll.

I think the concept of levels, especially in PF2, is a larger marker of superiority than stat boosts. A level 2 person performs similarly to a level 1 person w/ +1 (+2 in PF1) in some stats; +1 across the board in all trained activities vs. +1 in the activities based off stats the other person didn't boost, maybe an extra skill or language.

And w/ PF2's NPC build mindset where one's spectrum of performance is based only on level, that's even more true.

So to determine whether Azlanti are superior one would have to look at the levels of their commoners in one sense and exemplars in another. And I'm unsure they outperform the folk in combat zones, much less Hermea.

Your post point out one of the issues with full blooded Azlanti, The +2 to all stats was one thing, but all the stated ones were 20-25 PB and Level 15-20 in PC classes which did make them feel even more broken.