Tengu Nature Fang Build - Seeking Input - PFS


Advice


Hi -

Have been wanting to build a Natural Attack character for awhile now and stumbled upon the Nature Fang archetype. Sounds fun - here's what I have so far.

Looking for input on feats, traits, and slayer talents.. Haven't dumped stats (i.e. CHA) but doing so would help either CON or WIS most likely. Open to ideas.

Thought about going Horizon Walker (Astral Plain terrain) after level 8, but that would keep me out of level 5 and 6 druid spells. As well as Swift Studied Target and Level 10 Slayer Talent. Wouldn't go with Endurance unless I was doing this.

Anywho, figured he could use spells, trip, and some attacking up until 4, then it would be about Sneak Attacks to get 1d3+1d6+3 twice and then again with bite on a full attack. I know the Crocodile Domain would give additional Sneak Attack, but I don't have that book.

Race - Tengu with Alternate Racial Traits Claw Attack and Glide
Class - Druid, Nature Fang with Wolf Domain

Trait 1 -
Trait 2 -

S - 16
D - 14
C - 12
I - 10
W - 15 (16 at 4)
Ch - 10

Feats

1 - Improved Trip
1 - Toughness
2 - n/a
3 - Weapon Focus - Claws
4 - Rending Claws
5 - Endurance
6 - Eldritch Claws
7 - Blood Beak
8 -
9 -
10 - n/a
11 -


You probably want power attack somewhere. It is a fairly normal damage booster (and more consistant than sneak attack), and particularly good for natural attack builds (since usually, every hit has full strength and power attack damage, and they hit at full BAB which is a much better bet than TWF with iteratives)


Right, Power Attack! How could I forget...thinking it should go at 3 or 5, like so

Feats

1 - Improved Trip
1 - Toughness
2 - n/a
3 - Weapon Focus - Claws
4 - Rending Claws
5 - Power Attack
6 - Eldritch Claws
7 - Blood Beak
8 -
9 -
10 - n/a
11 -

Scarab Sages

There are a few problems with natural attacks that you might want to consider.

1) You NEVER get bonus attacks from high BAB from natural attacks. Thus, unless you do something weird, you will only ever get one attack a round. This can be mitigated with a helm of the mammoth lords (gives you a gore attack) or spells (give you claw attacks.) Keep that in mind.

2)Natural attacks have a few differences to them that people may not know about right off the bat. First and foremost, they do not count as 'weapons' in the traditional sense. Thus things like magic weapon, bless weapon, and keen edge, etc DO NOT WORK on natural attacks. The only exception to this rule is when monks/brawlers/other classes that get special unarmed strikes make their unarmed attacks, then they count as both natural attacks and weapons (sounds like that doesn't happen for this build though.)

3) The only way (I know of) to Improve your natural attacks is with an amulet of the mighty fist (works with all your natural and unarmed attacks.) They are pretty expensive though, twice as expensive as normal magic weapons, so be careful.


@Vamp, he's playing a tengu who can get claw attacks as an alternate racial trait (& a bite as standard issue), and a druid who gets a number of spells which can buff natural attacks.

Anyway, $0.02 from me. Your swift actions aren't used for anything, you probably want Quicken Spell at level 9 or 11. If you have no better plan then Lunge is available from 8th level and is usually worthwhile.


VampByDay wrote:

There are a few problems with natural attacks that you might want to consider.

1) You NEVER get bonus attacks from high BAB from natural attacks. Thus, unless you do something weird, you will only ever get one attack a round. This can be mitigated with a helm of the mammoth lords (gives you a gore attack) or spells (give you claw attacks.) Keep that in mind.

2)Natural attacks have a few differences to them that people may not know about right off the bat. First and foremost, they do not count as 'weapons' in the traditional sense. Thus things like magic weapon, bless weapon, and keen edge, etc DO NOT WORK on natural attacks. The only exception to this rule is when monks/brawlers/other classes that get special unarmed strikes make their unarmed attacks, then they count as both natural attacks and weapons (sounds like that doesn't happen for this build though.)

3) The only way (I know of) to Improve your natural attacks is with an amulet of the mighty fist (works with all your natural and unarmed attacks.) They are pretty expensive though, twice as expensive as normal magic weapons, so be careful.

1) He is 3/4 BAB, not full. So that is actually closer to a TWF build for him than anything. I doubt he would see any problems at all with 3 natural attacks until upper levels (around...15 or so?). Even past that, it is at least 'ok' levels.

2) He is a druid. If a druid can't deal with natural attacks, then no one can.

3) There are ways to approach that...but not spending money on an amulet of natural armor+weapon, and then getting crafting feats himself later on seems like it could ease things.

Anyway, build advise- have you considered using an animal companion rather than a domain? I mostly ask this because...hey, you have sneak attack... YOU LOVE FLANKING. Maybe consider a nice animal companion and grab outflank with it.

EDIT: Ah, also remembered- ANIMAL TOTEM TATTOOS. Cool magic item. They give you the same totemic transformation ability as one of those silly animal shaman archetypes. Acts like it is 5th level, so only 5 minutes per day (in 1 min increments). The eagle shaman is particularly interesting, since it offers flight or TALONS. The talons are the big thing here- that can bring you up to 5 primary natural attacks.


Given you'll be taking toughness, I'd go less con and keep that bonus on hp.

You'll want that strength. Even at the cost of wisdom. 14 will be good for buffs (likely what you want). Hit hard and drop them. You'll buff wisdom as you level but you'll be the dominant damage dealer for 8 levels or so.

Scarab Sages

lemeres wrote:
VampByDay wrote:

There are a few problems with natural attacks that you might want to consider.

1) You NEVER get bonus attacks from high BAB from natural attacks. Thus, unless you do something weird, you will only ever get one attack a round. This can be mitigated with a helm of the mammoth lords (gives you a gore attack) or spells (give you claw attacks.) Keep that in mind.

2)Natural attacks have a few differences to them that people may not know about right off the bat. First and foremost, they do not count as 'weapons' in the traditional sense. Thus things like magic weapon, bless weapon, and keen edge, etc DO NOT WORK on natural attacks. The only exception to this rule is when monks/brawlers/other classes that get special unarmed strikes make their unarmed attacks, then they count as both natural attacks and weapons (sounds like that doesn't happen for this build though.)

3) The only way (I know of) to Improve your natural attacks is with an amulet of the mighty fist (works with all your natural and unarmed attacks.) They are pretty expensive though, twice as expensive as normal magic weapons, so be careful.

1) He is 3/4 BAB, not full. So that is actually closer to a TWF build for him than anything. I doubt he would see any problems at all with 3 natural attacks until upper levels (around...15 or so?). Even past that, it is at least 'ok' levels.

2) He is a druid. If a druid can't deal with natural attacks, then no one can.

3) There are ways to approach that...but not spending money on an amulet of natural armor+weapon, and then getting crafting feats himself later on seems like it could ease things.

Anyway, build advise- have you considered using an animal companion rather than a domain? I mostly ask this because...hey, you have sneak attack... YOU LOVE FLANKING. Maybe consider a nice animal companion and grab outflank with it.

1) Just something to keep in mind

2) just something to keep in mind
3) PFS build, crafting is illegal in PFS


You could take Crocodile domain for more sneak attack.


VampByDay wrote:
3) PFS build, crafting is illegal...

Fair enough- still, he isn't buying a weapon and amulet of natural armor. So the price isn't that far off, if you look at it from the 'big 6' perspective.

And he doesn't quite miss the amulet as much, since he can barkskin.


This is just a random musing. With a Tengu's Stat array I'd prolly look to build DEX based and pick up an Agile AoMF as soon as possible (around level 4 in PFS), since you can buff your natural attacks with spells the loss of that +1 onus doesn't hurt as much. This allows you to get both your attack and Casting Stat to 18 and opens up Ranged weapons as a back up plan.

High Dex allows you to rely on light armor which opens up the brawling enhancement, this combined with Feral Combat Training (you only need weapon Focus Claw) considerably ups your damage output.

If you already have Improved Trip you can also pick up Combat Reflexes and vcious stomp and use your bite to trip and your claw to stomp.

Rending Claw seems like a really weak feat. Here's a suggestion for feats:

1 Finesse, Trip
3 Combat Reflexes
4 WF (Claw)
5 Feral combat training (Claw)
6 Eldritch Claw
7 IUS
8 TWF
9 ITWF
10 Multiattack
11 Lunge

For the late game you can rely on TWF and Multiattack for a crazy number of attacks all of which are buffed by your AoMF your Spell Buffs and the Brawling armor. Oh and you are a full caster with a strong casting stat to boot.

Scarab Sages

Alex Mack wrote:


For the late game you can rely on TWF and Multiattack for a crazy number of attacks all of which are buffed by your AoMF your Spell Buffs and the Brawling armor. Oh and you are a full caster with a strong casting stat to boot.

Your Feral Combat Training suggestion doesn't work. FCT doesn't allow you to make use of natural weapons in a normal iterative attack, it only applies to a flurry of blows. You can't TWF with claws. You could use TWF with Unarmed Strike(kick)/Unarmed Strike(kick)/Claw/Claw/Bite, but all of your natural attacks are secondary then. Also, as this is PFS, you can only take Multiattack if you take the natural weapon combat style.


Imbicatus wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:


For the late game you can rely on TWF and Multiattack for a crazy number of attacks all of which are buffed by your AoMF your Spell Buffs and the Brawling armor. Oh and you are a full caster with a strong casting stat to boot.
Your Feral Combat Training suggestion doesn't work. FCT doesn't allow you to make use of natural weapons in a normal iterative attack, it only applies to a flurry of blows. You can't TWF with claws. You could use TWF with Unarmed Strike(kick)/Unarmed Strike(kick)/Claw/Claw/Bite, but all of your natural attacks are secondary then. Also, as this is PFS, you can only take Multiattack if you take the natural weapon combat style.

Ah they changed Feral Combat training didn't they? You used to be able get the bonus from Brawling armor with Feral Combat Training but as that's no longer an option.

Had you followed the Thread closely you might have noticed that the OP is looking to build a nature Fang Druid with the Natural Weapon Combat style and Multiattack is definetly the all star on that list...


A lot of great suggestions – appreciate everyone’s feedback. Some random thoughts and questions:

-Will probably go full Druid levels and not bother with Horizon Walker. Sounds fun, but not enough levels in PFS to justify.

-Thought about animal companion but like the idea of Wolf Domain for level 1-4 spells and level 8 ability, plus I have a backstory around it. Plus I like the simplicity of one character to manage (I’m an old AD&D guy but still kind of new to Pathfinder and PFS)

-I kind of like the idea of TWF with claws as well as Weapon Finesse / Agile Amulet with this but have some questions:

-Does it say in the rules that Unarmed Strike can be Kicks such as Imbicatus suggests? Wasn’t aware of that…I know it works that way for a Brawler, but didn’t know the IUS feat worked that way

-And yes, I can take Multiattack at Level 10 per the Nature Fang abilities. Does Multiattack then make the “secondary” natural attacks a -2 rather than a -5 if I used them in conjunction with TWF? So it would look like: -2 (Kick)/-2 (Kick)/-2 (Claw)/-2 (Claw)/-2 (Claw) as opposed to -2 (Kick)/-2 (Kick)/-5 (Claw)/-5 (Claw)/-5 (Bite)? Given that, would it be better to wait and take TWF at Level 9? Maybe I need help understanding how Multiattack works?

-Feral Combat Training isn’t needed now, but Improved Unarmed Strike is, right?

-I was going to carry a 2-handed weapon (Scythe probably) to help with DR – if I go this TWF/Natural Attack route, what could assist with that? Pummeling Style maybe?

-Brawling Armor would no longer work, yes? At least not for Natural Attacks (although it would work for Unarmed Strikes).

Thanks for your help!

Scarab Sages

Kilgore Trout73 wrote:


-I kind of like the idea of TWF with claws as well as Weapon Finesse / Agile Amulet with this but have some questions:

-Does it say in the rules that Unarmed Strike can be Kicks such as Imbicatus suggests? Wasn’t aware of that…I know it works that way for a Brawler, but didn’t know the IUS feat worked that way

Yes. Unarmed Strikes are defined in the combat section as Punches, Kicks and Head-butts. This applies to any unarmed strike, even if you don't have the IUS feat.

Kilgore Trout73 wrote:


-Feral Combat Training isn’t needed now, but Improved Unarmed Strike is, right?

If you don't want to provoke on every unarmed attack and take a -4 penalty for doing lethal, yes.

Kilgore Trout73 wrote:


-I was going to carry a 2-handed weapon (Scythe probably) to help with DR – if I go this TWF/Natural Attack route, what could assist with that? Pummeling Style maybe?

-Brawling Armor would no longer work, yes? At least not for Natural Attacks (although it would work for Unarmed Strikes).

Pummeling Style is a bad option for this, as you can only use unarmed strikes in a pummeling style attack. You cannot use natural weapons with it, even with FCT. Also, Brawling will not work for Natural attacks.


Yeah the brawling armor enhancement would only apply to your unarmed strikes. Might still be worth it but is far less impressive than if it where to apply to your claws as well.

The whole TWF multiattack shtick is awesome when it comes together at level 10 however consider that to get there you need to invest 3 feats which will be sorta useless until you aquire multiattack.

If your looking for a backup weapon get yourself a reach weapon (problem is druids aren't even proficient with longspears) and pick up combat reflexes. This is really awesome for natural attack builds and doubly so for full casters as you are essentially a dual mode character.

At the start of combat you hang back and cast spells using positioning to get some AoO. Essentially you are playing the reach Cleric game cast Summon Magda Luckbender. Then once your opponent has closed with you, you toss away that useless stick and chow down on your prey with your powerful Claw Claw Bite Routine and before they know what hit em they are dead dead dead. This tactic also works well with your fairly low HP score.

However such a build would Favor STR+Power Atatck as you need that to deal damage with your Reach Weapon to make it a threat.

Also if you are keen on picking upo the Wolf Domain you should look into the competent sneak attacker Feat.

Also come the mid levels your first expensive Item should be a helm of the mamoth lord for a fourth Natural attack. It would really help you in staying competitve.


@Alex Mack -

Good point about waiting until Level 10. Think I'm going to stick with something closer to original build with your reach ideas.

Which means I either burn a feat to pick up a good Reach Weapon or dip in a class that gives Simple Weapon proficiency...maybe Fighter?

What is the name of competent sneak atacker Feat? Couldn't find anything by search-fu.

Maybe thinking something closer to this:

1 - Improved Trip
1 - Toughness (or Weapon Proficiency in Reach Weapon if I don't dip)
2 - n/a
3 - Combat Reflexes
4 - Weapon Focus - Claws
5 - Power Attack
6 - Eldritch Claws
7 -
8 - Slayer Talent
9 - Lunge
10 - Rending Claws (Slayer Talent)
11 -

Also picking up trait to give Sneak as a class skill as well as the trait that gives +2 to concentration checks as I could be casting in Combat, although not sure if Combat Casting Feat is worth it....


Imbicatus wrote:
Alex Mack wrote:


For the late game you can rely on TWF and Multiattack for a crazy number of attacks all of which are buffed by your AoMF your Spell Buffs and the Brawling armor. Oh and you are a full caster with a strong casting stat to boot.
Your Feral Combat Training suggestion doesn't work. FCT doesn't allow you to make use of natural weapons in a normal iterative attack, it only applies to a flurry of blows. You can't TWF with claws. You could use TWF with Unarmed Strike(kick)/Unarmed Strike(kick)/Claw/Claw/Bite, but all of your natural attacks are secondary then. Also, as this is PFS, you can only take Multiattack if you take the natural weapon combat style.

And this is PFS, and you are 3/4 BAB.

There is no late game where bite/claw/claw isn't fantastic by itself. It is great through 10 BAB...which is level 14 for this class. There would be more room for argument if this full full BAB (where things start tipping after level 10)... but again, this is not that.

And I pointed out single magic item that lets you get two more primary natural attack, removing all need for all this TWF and mixing natural/unarmed stuff. With 5 primary natural attacks, I am not sure there is ever a real need for the unarmed shenannigans.


lemeres wrote:

And this is PFS, and you are 3/4 BAB.

There is no late game where bite/claw/claw isn't fantastic by itself. It is great through 10 BAB...which is level 14 for this class. There would be more room for argument if this full full BAB (where things start tipping after level 10)... but again, this is not that.

And I pointed out single magic item that lets you get two more primary natural attack, removing all need for all this TWF and mixing natural/unarmed stuff. With 5 primary natural attacks, I am not sure there is ever a real need for the unarmed shenannigans.

Yeah, I'm abandoning those shenanigans - think we posted at same time. :-)

Read that Eagle totem - how would he have 2 talons and 2 claws? Or does it really matter....hahaha. It's magic! But, seriously, those 2 would be primary, eh? That's pretty awesome. If I got that Helm of the Mammoth Lord with that, would it make it 6 Natural Attacks? That seems ridiculous, if awesome. :-)


I'd strongly advise against a Dip. EWP Fauchard is prolly your best bet but it requires +1 BAB. You can get proficiency with a martial Reach weapon via a Trait (Heirloom Weapon) but that is a bit of a risky proposition.


Kilgore Trout73 wrote:
lemeres wrote:

And this is PFS, and you are 3/4 BAB.

There is no late game where bite/claw/claw isn't fantastic by itself. It is great through 10 BAB...which is level 14 for this class. There would be more room for argument if this full full BAB (where things start tipping after level 10)... but again, this is not that.

And I pointed out single magic item that lets you get two more primary natural attack, removing all need for all this TWF and mixing natural/unarmed stuff. With 5 primary natural attacks, I am not sure there is ever a real need for the unarmed shenannigans.

Yeah, I'm abandoning those shenanigans - think we posted at same time. :-)

Read that Eagle totem - how would he have 2 talons and 2 claws? Or does it really matter....hahaha. It's magic! But, seriously, those 2 would be primary, eh? That's pretty awesome. If I got that Helm of the Mammoth Lord with that, would it make it 6 Natural Attacks? That seems ridiculous, if awesome. :-)

Claws are for hands, talons are for feet (for humanoids, at least). So they go on different limbs.

The only downside is that it takes a standard action to activate and it only has 5 uses, each 1 minute.

But note- if I am remembering right, magical tattoos don't use normal item slots. So...yeah. A cool thing to pick up. It also does flight, if you need it quick.


Heirloom Trait - OK. Why is that a risky proposition?

Second question - how come the talons don't become secondary attacks? Feet, hands, and mouth are always primary? Or, if it doesn't state that it's secondary, it always defaults to primary? I've always wondered this....

Scarab Sages

Kilgore Trout73 wrote:

Heirloom Trait - OK. Why is that a risky proposition?

Second question - how come the talons don't become secondary attacks? Feet, hands, and mouth are always primary? Or, if it doesn't state that it's secondary, it always defaults to primary? I've always wondered this....

Heirloom Weapon is risky because it only gives proficiency with one specific weapon. You can use your ancestral bardiche, but not any other bardiche. If your ancestral weapon gets stolen or sundered, well, you're done.

As for Talons, they are listed as Primary Natural Attacks, so they are primary unless you use a manufactured weapon with them.

Edit: See the Natural Attack chart:

Natural Attacks by Size

Natural Attack
Base Damage by Size*
Damage Type Attack Type
Fine Dim. Tiny Small Medium Large Huge Garg. Col.
Bite 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6 B/S/P Primary
Claw — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B/S Primary
Gore 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6 P Primary
Hoof, Tentacle, Wing — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B Secondary
Pincers, Tail Slap 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 4d6 B Secondary
Slam — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B Primary
Sting — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 P Primary
Talons — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 S Primary
Other — 1 1d2 1d3 1d4 1d6 1d8 2d6 2d8 B/S/P Secondary
* Individual creatures vary from this value as appropriate.


Thanks, Imbicatus. Makes a lot of sense - have learned a lot with this thread!

So, Alex, why the strong advice against a dip? Only missing out on the 6th level Druid Spell as far as I can tell. And with only 1 at that level, seems like a fair trade off.

What am I missing?


Kilgore Trout73 wrote:

Thanks, Imbicatus. Makes a lot of sense - have learned a lot with this thread!

So, Alex, why the strong advice against a dip? Only missing out on the 6th level Druid Spell as far as I can tell. And with only 1 at that level, seems like a fair trade off.

What am I missing?

The point is not so much that you miss out on 6th level spells but that you will always be behind the curve when it comes to spells (and class abilities and your Bonus Feats). Now there are scenarios where that might make sense but in your case you have a class chasis with a boatload of bonus feats which you are also delaying by dipping to get what? A bonus feat? That's really gimping yourself without any good reason.

Anyways Druid might be the strongest class in Pathfinder in terms of versatility and is also one of the most powerful just stick too it and you'll be good.


Alright - makes sense!

Given some of the advice and discussion, here's what I'm thinking. Still not sure on a couple of Feats/Talents....open to suggestions!

Race - Tengu, with Alternate Racial Traits Claw Attack and Glide
Class - Druid, Nature Fang Archetype, Wolf Domain

Trait 1 - Highlander (grants Stealth as class skill)
Trait 2 - Focused Mind

S - 16 (+1 at 4 and 8)
D - 14
C - 12
I - 10
W - 16
Ch - 8

Feats

1 - Improved Trip
1 - Simple Weapon Proficiency (gives use of Longspear and Crossbow for ranged if necessary)
2 - n/a
3 - Combat Reflexes
4 - Weapon Focus - Claws
5 - Power Attack
6 - Eldritch Claws
7 - Toughness
8 - Slayer Talent (Fast Stealth maybe....or a Combat Feat or.....?)
9 - Lunge
10 - Rending Claws or other Slayer Talent
11 - ????

Tactics - Spells/Longspear/Ranged when needed at levels 1-3. When Sneak Attack comes online, use full attack/flanking with natural weapons.

Thoughts - Would be good to fit Improved Initiative somewhere sooner but can't see it until 8 at the earliest. Greater Trips and/or Vicious Stomp would be fun, but both require an additional feat (Combat Expertise for the former and IUS for the latter) so wouldn't see this come online until 11. Is Quicken Spell worth it at 11? Might be OK to swap Power Attack and Toughness to get more HP earlier as Power Attack will be more useful with higher BAB and Strength (maybe?)

Open to suggestions still!


Re Quicken Spell, look up Vine Strike. It's a buff you'll want, and it stacks with the likes of Aspect of the Wolf, Strong Jaw, Greater Magic Fang and studied target.

Scarab Sages

Crocodile domain might be better than wolf. It increases yor sneak attack, also gives you a flank partner with a small familiar(go valet if you want to be a pseudo-hunter), and death roll is pretty cool with improved grapple, which you can take without needing IUS thanks to your claws racial trait.


If you want to have some fun go animal (feather) domain. Gain an animal companion and also some fun spells.

It gives you spells and a companion, with a feat can be buffed to normal. Not awesome spells bit feathers not terrible.

I should know I made a river druid Ferrier for a friend's first time and it was a tengu. Had a raven and was for skull and shackles so she was in the crows nest. I think she had a 15 perception.


I'd drop Cha to 7 and raise DEX to 16. Otherwise the build looks good. If you don't want to utilize Improved Trip I'd second Imbicatus advice for the Crocodile Domain but it's not a must as Wolf offers way better Spells and the level 8 ability is something I'd love to try out as well.

Also it's prolly worth it to retrain Simple Weapon Proficiency into EWP at level 2 (costs 2 PP and a few hundred gold). However before spending a Feat I'd prolly risk Heirloom Weapon but that's just me. If you do check out the 1d12 hammer whose name has escapped me...

If you can't get Imp Initiative consider the Reactonary trait instead.


Crocodile Domain sounds fun, but I think I'll stick with Wolf for the reasons you mentioned.

Bummer thing about the Wolf Domain is the Level 1 Domain spell is useless (in Combat, anyway) until Level 2, unless I'm reading it wrong - Discussion Link Here. But after that it improves and 1-4 spells are solid.

Can't increase DEX to 16 by dumping CHA to 7 - puts me at 21 points. Would need to put INT to 9 and don't like more than 1 negative stat if I can avoid it.

The Heirloom Weapon is growing on me, and I'm thinking once I reach a certain level the Long Spear wouldn't be used so much, freeing me up for Toughness at Level 1 (10 HP at Level 1 sounds really low for a melee character!) And, I think I could pay 360 gp after 1st adventure to have Masterwork Transformation cast on it, correct?

Alright, here's a revised build:

Race - Tengu, with Alternate Racial Traits Claw Attack and Glide
Class - Druid, Nature Fang Archetype, Wolf Domain

Trait 1 - Highlander (grants Stealth as class skill)
Trait 2 - Heirloom Weapon - Longspear

S - 16 (+1 at 4 and 8)
D - 14
C - 12
I - 12
W - 16
Ch - 7

Feats

1 - Improved Trip
1 - Toughness
2 - n/a
3 - Combat Reflexes
4 - Weapon Focus - Claws
5 - Power Attack (might be fun to swap this with Power Attack as Power Attack seems more useful with 4 BAB and 18 STR)
6 - Eldritch Claws
7 - Vicious Stomp
8 - Slayer Talent - Improved Initiative (better late than never!)
9 - Lunge
10 - Rending Claws or ????
11 - ????


Heirloom Weapon allows you to pick any martial Weapon. I think Bardiche or the Lucerne Hammer are your best options. And yeah you can use Masterwork transformation on it. And you will prolly be using it more in the latter levels as you will have more and better spells to cast during combat.


Gotta say....played a couple of scenarios with this guy today and it was F-U-N!

Missed the bit about the martial weapon, so will need to change that when I hit Level 2 and can respec.

Wish I could find a way to get a social skill as a class skill, and will probably memorize Hydraulic Push for future scenarios as there are just too many times it would be good to push enemies out of tight spaces to make room for the party to enter the room.

Not sure if I'm going with Bardiche or Lucerne Hammer....the Hammer does more damage on average and can be B or P damage, but the Bardiche has a +2 against Sunder attempts. Hopefully a DM wouldn't try to Sunder a weapon...that would be kind of a d*** move for PFS, but I suppose it could happen. Would probably just re-train Toughness into EWP if that happened as an alternative.

Actually, this reach thing makes me re-think the race. Yeah, Natural Attacks with Sneak Attacks is nice, but maybe something like a Nagaji with Strength modifier and a Natural AC....I dunno. Hard to say until get up in levels.

Suppose it is nice to have options (reach and natural attacks and spells....), so maybe I'll just keep it the way it is.

Really appreciate everyone's help. Still open to suggestions for later level feats/talents....


Oh then good news!

GO URBAN DRUID.

You won't have a companion so that's fine. You won't need shape change so that's fine with its delay. And you'll gain a lot of class skills including Diplomacy.

Down side is no wolf domain. But a lot of others to choose from.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/archetypes/paizo---druid -archetypes/urban-druid


Nature Fang is superior to Urban Druid.

Easiest way to get Diplomacy is spending a trait but your negative Charisma will make that difficult.


True, but even a positive modifier in Diplomacy or another Social skill comes in handy in PFS even with the negative CHA.

Not sure if I even need Stealth as a class skill - certainly nice, but with the Tengu's inherent bonus, that might be good enough if I put a point in every level, freeing up a trait for either Reactionary or a Social skill.

Well, still some time to figure it out - one more scenario then I can respec....still might abandon that Heirloom Weapon and Toughness and go for an EWP Reach Weapon.

Anyways, thanks for all the help and suggestions!

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