Pathfinder Adventure Path #73: The Worldwound Incursion (Wrath of the Righteous 1 of 6) (PFRPG)

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Pathfinder Adventure Path #73: The Worldwound Incursion (Wrath of the Righteous 1 of 6) (PFRPG)
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Chapter 1: "The Worldwound Incursion"
by Amber E. Scott

For more than a hundred years, the demon-infested Worldwound has warred against humanity, its Abyssal armies clashing with crusaders, barbarians, mercenaries, and heroes along the border of lost Sarkoris. But when one of the magical wardstones that helps hedge the demons into their savage realm is sabotaged, the crusader city of Kenabres is attacked and devastated by the demonic hordes. Can a small band of heroes destined for mythic greatness survive long enough to hold back the forces of chaos and evil until help arrives, or will they become the latest in a long line of victims slaughtered by Deskari, the demon lord of the Locust Host?

This volume of Pathfinder Adventure Path launches the Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path and includes:

  • “The Worldwound Incursion,” a Pathfinder RPG adventure for 1st-level characters, by Amber E. Scott.
  • A gazetteer of the crusader city of Kenabres on the border of the Worldwound, by Amber E. Scott.
  • The search for an infamous demon hunter in the Pathfinder’s Journal, by Robin D. Laws.
  • A complete outline of the Wrath of the Righteous campaign.
  • Four new monsters by James Jacobs, Jason Nelson, David Schwartz, and Jerome Virnich.

Each monthly full-color softcover Pathfinder Adventure Path volume contains an in-depth adventure scenario, stats for several new monsters, and support articles meant to give Game Masters additional material to expand their campaign. Pathfinder Adventure Path volumes use the Open Game License and work with both the Pathfinder RPG and the world’s oldest fantasy RPG.

ISBN–13: 978-1-60125-553-2

Note: This product is part of the Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscription.

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The Standard for AP Openings

5/5

As the title, this book is everything I love about Pathfinder and the best opener of any AP I’ve played. For context, I have played one other AP from beginning to end, 4 books of another, and the first book of another.

There’s challenge! There’s scale! There’s memorable NPCs! There’s such an energy and drive here that has kept me stoked for more. Yes, I am biased by my love of paladiny lawful goodness, but that’s just a small part of what makes this book work so well for me.

As a final note, anyone who wants to whine about LGBT-inclusion can kiss my transgender lesbian ass. This book rocks.


Pathfinder or politics?

2/5

The adventure is fun, if you can get past the writers doing their best to ram the most hot-topic controversial political issues of the day down your throat at every turn. I've had to dramatically modify the fluff of two major NPCs in order to avoid political conversations I don't care to have with my party.

Stick to writing stories, guys. You're not going to attract new fans like this.


A good start

5/5

Just to get this out of the way, let me start with the following obligatory advice:

Advice on adjusting the difficulty level of this AP:
Before running this AP, I was warned that the power of mythic PCs quickly outpaced the difficulty of the encounters the AP provides. Despite taking a number of precautions to mitigate this (having players use a 10 point-buy, applying advanced templates to every mythic creature, etc), I found this to be true.

In light of our experiences, and those reported on the boards, the consensus seems to be that there are two generally viable ways to deal with these problems:

Option 1: Power-down the PCs.

(a) Don't give the PCs mythic ranks.

(b) [Optional:] Use the Hero Point system introduced in the APG, and give the PCs a number of Hero Points per day equal to the number of mythic ranks they're supposed to have. (This makes players a bit more robust.)

(c) More or less play the AP as is. (Though there are a couple of encounters in book 6 that will probably need to be made a bit easier).

Option 2: Power-up the encounters.

(a) Give the PCs mythic ranks as the AP suggests (possibly with the nerfs suggested in Mythic Solutions).

(b) Use the (vastly) upgraded stat blocks presented in Sc8rpi8n_mjd's modified stat blocks document to upgrade encounters, and then further multiply the HPs given in the stat blocks by something like (creature's mythic rank+3)/3. (For more optimized players you may need to multiply HPs even more.)

Our experience, FWIW: We played books 1-4 more or less as is, and (despite my efforts to boost and combine encounters) found books 3 and 4 to be far too easy to be fun. We then adopted something like option 2 for books 5 and 6, and found that to be much more challenging and enjoyable. But we also found that combat can take forever -- don't be surprised if you find yourself needing to spend more than one session to get through a fight.

This is good start to the AP, with an epic event to kick things off, a number of interesting NPCs to roleplay with, and a decent dungeon crawl to work through.

--Fun of playing this leg of the AP, as written: 4.5/5
--Fun of the story of this leg of the AP: 4.5/5
--Total score: 4.5/5 (rounded up).


A Solid Foundation for the Entire Campaign

5/5

The Worldwound Incursion is an extremely good start to an epic campaign. This module of the Adventure Path builds a solid foundation on which the rest of the campaign rests.

The start of the module effectively not only shows what is at stake in the campaign and what will happen if the PCs fail, it also manages to build solid relationships with many of those who will be the PCs' closest allies as the campaign progresses. The NPCs have clear, strong and differing personalities which together with their background stories make for believable and likeable (or at least entertaining) NPCs.

Furthermore the AP manages to shine a light on not only the physical corruption demonic taint brings to mortals and nature itself, but also shows how the corruption of crusaders, mercenaries and in general fallible mortals slowly destroys the very nature of the crusades and crushes all hope of victory.

Add that the story is brilliant, the combats appropriately challenging and the rewards are very good as well, and the module offers plenty of good roleplaying opportunities, whether one prefers the more serious, the over the top and funny (with a touch of the dramatic) or a mixture of both.

The only negative I can add is that for any moderately competent group the mythic rules being introduced in the end pose quite a challenge for the GM in future modules. Mythic is overpowered, there is no way around it, and in my group even the suggested alternative stat increases make for too strong a party if one wants to play the entire AP exactly as written. As the campaign has progressed I've needed to increase the CR considerably to keep combats challenging (or just at a point where they drain PC resources), but luckily the Paizo forums have an amazing reworking of higher ranking enemies/allies/neutrals. Personally I find that those reworked stats and the stronger enemies being allowed to use mythic while the PCs aren't makes for an appropriate challenge, but it would depend a lot on how experienced the players are.

All in all The Worldwound Incursion is a brilliant start to a very, very good campaign, although later modules do need a bit more mechanical tweaks from the GM's side than the average AP. The help found on Paizo's forums helps a lot in this regard though.


Excellent Start

5/5

My group and I finished this book yesterday after playing nine sessions roughly averaging 3 ½ hours a pop. We play online with 6 players.

Story: The story is great. Starts off with the big bad guys making a powerful statement. This gives the GM a chance to play up that the demons are no joke and over the course of the book, the descriptions emphasize just how rotten they can be. The writers rarely miss a chance to speak to their taste in graffiti, vandalism of statues and desecration of monuments. The story really falls into two parts, the first one isolates the PCs from the larger events but that works great to force them to build as a team, the later part of the story opens up the scene to allow the players to explore the destruction and claim some victories. I liked how that worked out

Role-Play: This was also really well integrated into the story. The book has some NPCs thrust upon the PCs right off the bat. They are all well flushed out and easy to adapt and challenge the PCs to interact and help them find their voices with these brand new characters. Later on there are more interesting NPCs presented to the PCs each of them also well flushed out with clear goals and easy personalities to interpret. Also, the story has a number of decision points that should challenge members of the party to consider their own motivations and cooperate and negotiate upon those ideas.

Combat Encounters: These were mostly good. I had to modify a little bit here and there given the size of my group and emphasis upon them to build powerful characters. My intention being to run this without mythic rules means I will frequently be forced to modify encounters so this did not bother me. If it were a standard 4 person party, I think a good amount of the encounters would be challenging.

Extras: The maps of the underground could have been a bit more interesting. As it is they look pretty generic. The maps of the city however are very compelling visually. Give you a really good sense of the damage that was done. Additionally the introduction to Kenabres allows you to set up some stuff before the events of the AP kick off, so if you feel like you need to invest your players into the city more, there is ample material to do so. The monsters at the back are also good. Mostly they flush out the ranks of the demons giving multiple options across all CRs.

Overall: Great start to the AP. I’ve noticed some complaints of this being too railroady, but I don’t think so. In fact there is a large portion of the second half of the AP which asks the PCs to explore the ruins of Kenabres. A GM could easily add or subtract encounters into this portion as he wants. So the characters have room to develop, the plot sets the stakes really high and invests the PCs into the books to come.


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Paizo Employee Creative Director

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Amaranthine Witch wrote:
Mechalibur wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Mechalibur wrote:


I think there's about an equal amount. Hell, the first gay couple introduced was male, back in AP #1.

Yes I know, and there's a couple in Isles of the Shackles. That's it, and not even slightly equal. But I said my piece and don't have anything else to add. Otherwise looking forward to the adventure.

*EDIT: the adventure which, upon checking my email, I can now download! Woo!

There's more than those two as well. There was a male/male couple in a PFS adventure. Also one in the Rival Guide. Might be more but I don't recall every NPC.

So there are at least twice as many as you remember :/

There are lesbians in at least three APs (Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker and Shattered Star). I don't remember any gay men in the adventures other than the paladin and the bard in Rise of the Runelords, and they don't play any part in the adventure itself.

There's been some, but none in significant roles. That changes with Wrath of the Righteous, finally!

Paizo Employee Creative Director

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Generic Villain wrote:
Another lesbian couple eh? I really appreciate Paizo's inclusion of LGBT characters, but come on - where are the gay men? Sigh.
There's a couple in the 2nd adventure. Never fear!
I hope it doesn't get overdone though. We get it, inclusiveness is good, just don't beat me over the head with it. I'm cool with everyone loving everyone but some moderation makes it feel more organic and less forced. I hope that didn't make me sound like a hater. I'm really not.

All I can say is that I don' think it's been overdone... but my/Paizo's take on what is and isn't "overdone" will vary wildly when compared to the customers' takes.

In the end, it's up to each GM how to handle things like relationships in their games, or how those relationships are organized.

But being inclusive is a big deal for us at Paizo, and including GLBT characters in adventures is important, since that helps raise awareness and promotes inclusivity. And it's something we're going to keep doing as we head into the future!


I got my pdf last night and glanced through it as well as the mythic book. I will spend more time on TH going through both.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
I hope it doesn't get overdone though. We get it, inclusiveness is good, just don't beat me over the head with it. I'm cool with everyone loving everyone but some moderation makes it feel more organic and less forced. I hope that didn't make me sound like a hater. I'm really not.

I feel similar. I think Paizo's inclusiveness is a good thing, and there should be different types of people in the stories they create just like there are different people in real life. I also like that they often portray the people in those situation in a positive light or at least not in a negative one, but I also want it to be organic, and sometimes wonder if they are getting to the point it feels a little forced myself.

My philosophy on it is that when a writer creates a piece of work if that person has a great idea for what would make the best story, like including a homosexual character or characters for that situation, than that's what should happen.

I don't want it to get to the point where they put things in just for the sake of something different or to just do it, especially when good stories can be made that include different types of people and lifestyles without forcing it. I think overdoing something simply for it's own sake can end up negating some of the good aspects that can come for being inclusive in the first place.

Silver Crusade

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Drock11 wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
I hope it doesn't get overdone though. We get it, inclusiveness is good, just don't beat me over the head with it. I'm cool with everyone loving everyone but some moderation makes it feel more organic and less forced. I hope that didn't make me sound like a hater. I'm really not.

I feel similar. I think Paizo's inclusiveness is a good thing, and there should be different types of people in the stories they create just like there are different people in real life. I also like that they often portray the people in those situation in a positive light or at least not in a negative one, but I also want it to be organic, and sometimes wonder if they are getting to the point it feels a little forced myself.

My philosophy on it is that when a writer creates a piece of work if that person has a great idea for what would make the best story, like including a homosexual character or characters for that situation, than that's what should happen.

I don't want it to get to the point where they put things in just for the sake of something different or to just do it, especially when good stories can be made that include different types of people and lifestyles without forcing it. I think overdoing something simply for it's own sake can end up negating some of the good aspects that can come for being inclusive in the first place.

So, non-white people should be only included if they make a great story?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gorbacz wrote:
Drock11 wrote:
Aaron Scott 139 wrote:
I hope it doesn't get overdone though. We get it, inclusiveness is good, just don't beat me over the head with it. I'm cool with everyone loving everyone but some moderation makes it feel more organic and less forced. I hope that didn't make me sound like a hater. I'm really not.

I feel similar. I think Paizo's inclusiveness is a good thing, and there should be different types of people in the stories they create just like there are different people in real life. I also like that they often portray the people in those situation in a positive light or at least not in a negative one, but I also want it to be organic, and sometimes wonder if they are getting to the point it feels a little forced myself.

My philosophy on it is that when a writer creates a piece of work if that person has a great idea for what would make the best story, like including a homosexual character or characters for that situation, than that's what should happen.

I don't want it to get to the point where they put things in just for the sake of something different or to just do it, especially when good stories can be made that include different types of people and lifestyles without forcing it. I think overdoing something simply for it's own sake can end up negating some of the good aspects that can come for being inclusive in the first place.

So, non-white people should be only included if they make great story?

Thanks Gorbacz. That's much more succinct than anything I could think of.

EDIT: While I think The Bag makes the point pretty clearly, I want to expand on this a little. Including LGBT characters only when the story explicitly calls for it is not being inclusive, it's holding those people up as specifically out of the ordinary. It reinforces the notion that "normal" people are all straight, and people who step out of that norm are plot points.

Being inclusive means acknowledging that sometimes people are gay, or bi, or whatever else, even when there's no specific story reason for them to be so. A lot of relationship information for NPCs isn't really relevant to the plot, but that doesn't mean it should all be left out. In the same way, ignoring LGBT people until it can serve the plot doesn't make sense.

Dark Archive

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Turning that criteria around, should I, as a writer, only ever include a white male character if there is a specific story reason why that character should be a white male? No. The character may or may not be a white male, but that doesn't mean that the story is going to have anything to do with his skin color or his gender.

The same standard should apply if that character is a black woman, or a lesbian, or an atheist, or fat, or really old, or in a wheelchair. There doesn't need to be a compelling story 'reason' for a character to be a non-white-male, just as their doesn't need to be a 'reason' for the character to be a white male.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Set wrote:
The same standard should apply if that character is a black woman, or a lesbian, or an atheist, or fat, or really old, or in a wheelchair. There doesn't need to be a compelling story 'reason' for a character to be a non-white-male, just as their doesn't need to be a 'reason' for the character to be a white male.

Agree. The forced inclusion of minority, majority, gay, lesbian, abled or disabled feels wrong. It's a little like the idea of the female quota that sees to spring up here from time to time: we need more females in business or politics, well then lets set a minimum quota of women in these jobs and employ women to meet that quota. The inclusion feels false and betrays the whole concept of equality.

Its been my experience that in games like this inclusion of any NPC automatically means they stand out - they are out of the ordinary. Players tend to think well why do these people stand out above the crowd? Why are they being shown to use. If you draw attention to them players will assume they have a role to play. Does this automatically mean that role has to do with their gender preference or colour? I hope not. I hope it means they were included to add to a story or fill some meaningful role. If it takes a black or white person, fine; gay, lesbian or straight, fine; disabled, fine (although I haven't seen any now I think about it). They are all equal in value, no one particularly fills a role better than the other unless you seek to highlight that difference for a storytelling element, and that's usually used to reflect on the other people involved - highlighting their failure to accept. If you need to be constantly reminded that people are your equal then you need to reflect on yourself.


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I'm of the opinion that if you keep including such NPCs, there will come a point where they won't stand out and soon, no one will make a big deal (both positive and negative) about it. Which to me, is awesome if we get to a point where we can add any character of any gender, race, or sexuality and no one bats an eye.

So keep including them, I say.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, for anyone who has the pdf, whats the deal with the half-orc on the cover? She looks pretty awesome :)

Grand Lodge

13 people marked this as a favorite.
Cat-thulhu wrote:
Set wrote:
The same standard should apply if that character is a black woman, or a lesbian, or an atheist, or fat, or really old, or in a wheelchair. There doesn't need to be a compelling story 'reason' for a character to be a non-white-male, just as their doesn't need to be a 'reason' for the character to be a white male.
Agree. The forced inclusion of minority, majority, gay, lesbian, abled or disabled feels wrong. It's a little like the idea of the female quota that sees to spring up here from time to time: we need more females in business or politics, well then lets set a minimum quota of women in these jobs and employ women to meet that quota. The inclusion feels false and betrays the whole concept of equality.

Speaking as both a member of the minority in question AND an academic who just finished 10 weeks of research on the subject, I disagree. The reason inclusion "feels false" is because people in the general culture are used to the default human being in entertainment being a white, heterosexual, cissexual, abled male. Women show up on approximately a 1:5 ratio with men (of every six characters in a typical fictional work, one will be a woman).

And worse, these ratios come to be expected in environments outside of fiction. Men expect women to appear in that 1:5 ratio in professional environments as well, with certain "accepted" exceptions - teachers (but ONLY elementary school), nurses (but not doctors), libraries (but not in a managerial role), and so on and so forth. When the appearance of women exceeds 1/3 of all people, men tend to believe that they are outnumbered.

When there is one woman for every two men, men think that women are predominating. This has all been extensively researched.

And that's *just* with one variable. When you add in race, class, religion, ability, sexual orientation, gender identity, etc., it becomes dangerously difficult to find any representation at all.

When LGBTQ+ characters - especially trans characters - show up in a fictional work that is not explicitly LGBTQ+ oriented, people who are not LGBTQ+ tend to believe that these characters represent "forced inclusiveness," rather than simply recognizing that LGBTQ+ people deserve to see themselves represented.

Quote:
Its been my experience that in games like this inclusion of any NPC automatically means they stand out - they are out of the ordinary. Players tend to think well why do these people stand out above the crowd? Why are they being shown to use. If you draw attention to them players will assume they have a role to play. Does this automatically mean that role has to do with their gender preference or colour? I hope not. I hope it means they were included to add to a story or fill some meaningful role. If it takes a black or white person, fine; gay, lesbian or straight, fine; disabled, fine (although I haven't seen any now I think about it). They are all equal in value, no one particularly fills a role better than the other unless you seek to highlight that difference for a storytelling element, and that's usually used to reflect on the other people involved - highlighting their failure to accept. If you need to be constantly reminded that people are your equal then you need to reflect on yourself.

Simply having representation is reason enough.

"When you grow up poor, sometimes books are the only connection you have to the world that exists outside your neighborhood. You begin to imagine that the people in those books matter. You imagine that they are important—maybe even immortal—because someone wrote about them. But you? When you fail to find yourself in books—or people like you, who live in neighborhoods like yours, who look like you and love like you—you begin to question your place in the world. You begin to question if those people who make up your neighborhood and your family are worth writing about, if you are worth writing about. Maybe no one thinks about them or you. Maybe no one sees you." - Jaquira Diaz, "Girl Hood: On (Not) Finding Yourself in Books"

Grand Lodge

Mechalibur wrote:
So, for anyone who has the pdf, whats the deal with the half-orc on the cover? She looks pretty awesome :)

She's a Paladin. And married to the trans woman character we're now apparently discussing. ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I want more info on the trans* woman in particular...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Cat-thulhu wrote:
Its been my experience that in games like this inclusion of any NPC automatically means they stand out - they are out of the ordinary. Players tend to think well why do these people stand out above the crowd? Why are they being shown to use. If you draw attention to them players will assume they have a role to play. Does this automatically mean that role has to do with their gender preference or colour? I hope not. I hope it means they were included to add to a story or fill some meaningful role. If it takes a black or white person, fine; gay, lesbian or straight, fine; disabled, fine (although I haven't seen any now I think about it). They are all equal in value, no one particularly fills a role better than the other unless you seek to highlight that difference for a storytelling element, and that's usually used to reflect on the other people involved - highlighting their failure to accept. If you need to be constantly reminded that people are your equal then you need to reflect on yourself.

As long as they "automatically stand out" then society still has work to do. The point where someone DOESN'T automatically stand out due to race/gender/sexuality is the goal.

And I don't think these characters were forced to be included. I certainly didn't feel forced to include them when I put them into the AP outline. And if the authors felt forced to include them, they didn't say so to me!


So I am very surprised that:

Demon Lord:
The demon lord Xoveron doesn't have Mythic Ranks. I assumed he would.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spoiler:
Hm, doesn't that mean he would automatically fail his saves against mythic abilities? Or am I remembering the playtest wrong?

Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4

James Jacobs wrote:
And if the authors felt forced to include them, they didn't say so to me!

This is more to the community than specifically James.

Speaking for myself I never felt forced by any Developer. I have included LGBT characters in three different products and in only one of those instances was it required/requested by the outline. The other two instances were just because that was what my imagination came up with. In that one instance where it was required, I was happy to follow instructions.

Good things come from following instructions.

I'm just volunteering this because I spoke up earlier. I defer further matters of policy to the Development Team.


magnuskn wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Demon lords are considered mythic in their realms. But still, I'm very surprised that they aren't mythic outside of their realm. They are still very powerful and immune to a lot of abilities, but I'm surprised they "get weaker" when they leave their realm, as opposed to "get stronger" when they are in it. If that makes sense.


Actually, now I'm a bit more confused. In the AP, it says that in their own realm, they get the Mythic Power ability, which in Mythic Adventures states:

Spoiler:
Mythic Power (Su): The mythic monster can draw upon a wellspring of power to accomplish amazing deeds and cheat fate. Each day, it can expend a number of uses of mythic power equal to its mythic rank. This amount is its maximum amount of mythic power. If an ability allows it to regain mythic power, it can never gain more than this amount. The monster automatically has the surge ability (see page 228), and can use this mythic power to activate it. It may have other abilities that rely on mythic power.

Emphasis mine. So, since demon lords have no mythic rank, how much mythic power do they use?


Odraude wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
Demon lords are considered mythic in their realms. But still, I'm very surprised that they aren't mythic outside of their realm. They are still very powerful and immune to a lot of abilities, but I'm surprised they "get weaker" when they leave their realm, as opposed to "get stronger" when they are in it. If that makes sense.

Perhaps the act of becoming a demon lord ties them partly to their abyssal realm? To slim it down to numbers, say the standard non-realm is 100.

If a demon lord has an abyssal realm, then within that realm their power increases to 150 in reflection of their status. However, the price of taking a realm is that they are, after all, tied to it (indeed, it gives them a bona-fide means of resurrection against all but the deadliest of foes). So as a result, when outside their realm their overall power drops from what would be 100 standard to 80, or 50 if you prefer a clean exchange.

They trade power outside their realm for increased influence and the realm itself.

Just speculating, mind you, but it seems a reasonable explanation.

Quote:
So, since demon lords have no mythic rank, how much mythic power do they use?

10/day. I think it was noted in the blog post describing the abilities of demon lords.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:


As long as they "automatically stand out" then society still has work to do. The point where someone DOESN'T automatically stand out due to race/gender/sexuality is the goal.

Actually I was saying NPC's stick out automatically, any character a DM spends time on usually sticks out to the PC's as someone to pay attention to. This had nothing to do with race/gender/sexuality, just a statement that NPC's will always stand out. I agree with you no one should stand out because of race/gender/sexuality. In a RPG an NPC will always stand out from the crowd. Are the characters in question essential to the storyline? If so then they will stand out, consequently their gender and sexuality will stand out. Is this a function of race/gender/sexuality? Nope, it's just that the two concerned are NPC's and so PC's pay them more attention

James Jacobs wrote:
And I don't think these characters were forced to be included. I certainly didn't feel forced to include them when I put them into the AP outline. And if the authors felt forced to include them, they didn't say so to me!

No offence was intended, I would never assume you would force any writer to include something and if you read that into the post I apologize. I was addressing the few posts prior to mine regarding race etc. Perhaps the word forced was a little strong.


Alleran wrote:
Odraude wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
Demon lords are considered mythic in their realms. But still, I'm very surprised that they aren't mythic outside of their realm. They are still very powerful and immune to a lot of abilities, but I'm surprised they "get weaker" when they leave their realm, as opposed to "get stronger" when they are in it. If that makes sense.

Perhaps the act of becoming a demon lord ties them partly to their abyssal realm? To slim it down to numbers, say the standard non-realm is 100.

If a demon lord has an abyssal realm, then within that realm their power increases to 150 in reflection of their status. However, the price of taking a realm is that they are, after all, tied to it (indeed, it gives them a bona-fide means of resurrection against all but the deadliest of foes). So as a result, when outside their realm their overall power drops from what would be 100 standard to 80, or 50 if you prefer a clean exchange.

They trade power outside their realm for increased influence and the realm itself.

Just speculating, mind you, but it seems a reasonable explanation.

Quote:
So, since demon lords have no mythic rank, how much mythic power do they use?
10/day. I think it was noted in the blog post describing the abilities of demon lords.

That makes sense, as the guideline for Mythic Ranks (CR/2.5) comes to 10. Well, 10.8 but I'd imagine the max is 10 so... yeah/ Still wish it sad it in the PDF.

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Do they get a save against mythic powers outside their own realm?


Good question. It doesn't specifically call out if they are mythic or not *shrug*

Shadow Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

If they lack that mythic ability outside their own plane it would explain why they stay there, rather than personally invade. Which demon lord would go to a place where they are vulnerable? Wouldn't these issues be raised in the Mythic Adventures book?


Cat-thulhu wrote:
If they lack that mythic ability outside their own plane it would explain why they stay there, rather than personally invade. Which demon lord would go to a place where they are vulnerable? Wouldn't these issues be raised in the Mythic Adventures book?

I would assume Mythic Realms, if we're talking Golarion-specific rules. But I don't have MA (about 24 hours to go, I think...), so there may be something in there.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Zaister wrote:
Amaranthine Witch wrote:
There are lesbians in at least three APs (Curse of the Crimson Throne, Kingmaker and Shattered Star). I don't remember any gay men in the adventures other than the paladin and the bard in Rise of the Runelords, and they don't play any part in the adventure itself.

There's also an implied gay couple in Curse of the Crimson Throne with ** spoiler omitted ** While it's not actually spelled out, I think the implication is clear.

Who are you referring to in Kingmaker? I can't remember off the top of my head.

Kisandra and Satinder Morne from Blood for Blood.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Amaranthine Witch wrote:
Kisandra and Satinder Morne from Blood for Blood.

Ah yes, of course!


I don't see the issue with the NPC. It's not like everyone has to follow all rules and content exactly and to a T. The characters could just as easily be any other race or gender. All it would require is a little bit of work on the DM's part. Their relationship would remain. If a DM feels like they couldn't properly portray the relationship/character(s) or if they don't agree with it, they can change it for the game. I personally find the relationship interesting and despite that, I doubt the whole "trans" issue will even come up in my game.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is anyone else still waiting on their download link? :(

Slightly concerned as my order pages contain a lot of stuff about the order not being issued until all pre-ordered items can ship - but I don't have any pre-orders...? *big sad face*


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
mikeawmids wrote:

Is anyone else still waiting on their download link? :(

Slightly concerned as my order pages contain a lot of stuff about the order not being issued until all pre-ordered items can ship - but I don't have any pre-orders...? *big sad face*

Yeah, same here. I am a bit depressed that I might get the PDF after the normal costumers get theirs. :(


magnuskn wrote:
Yeah, same here. I am a bit depressed that I might get the PDF after the normal costumers get theirs. :(

Epic Fail on Will Save

So your are admitting that you are not normal... That explains a lot.

-- david

ps. Sorry, just could not resist.


mikeawmids wrote:

Is anyone else still waiting on their download link? :(

Slightly concerned as my order pages contain a lot of stuff about the order not being issued until all pre-ordered items can ship - but I don't have any pre-orders...? *big sad face*

Aye, many of us are still waiting for our orders to ship. No need to worry just yet. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Oh, THIS subscription I didn't have to cancel! F5, F5, F5...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
DM Papa.DRB wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Yeah, same here. I am a bit depressed that I might get the PDF after the normal costumers get theirs. :(

Epic Fail on Will Save

So your are admitting that you are not normal... That explains a lot.

-- david

ps. Sorry, just could not resist.

What's a "normal"?


So what is Xoverons CR?


Starsunder wrote:
So what is Xoverons CR?

27!


lorderok wrote:
Starsunder wrote:
So what is Xoverons CR?
27!

Thanks!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Card Game, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
mikeawmids wrote:

Is anyone else still waiting on their download link? :(

Slightly concerned as my order pages contain a lot of stuff about the order not being issued until all pre-ordered items can ship - but I don't have any pre-orders...? *big sad face*

Subscription might take until next Friday to complete according to the early postings from Paizo, so don't get worried.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens Subscriber
magnuskn wrote:
What's a "normal"?

Vector perpendicular to the tangent plane. Means you're not a fully-upstanding citizen. You're leaning one way or the other. :)


My girlfriend just got hers shipped... just in time for the last part of Reign of Winter to arrive at my house. :)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
lorderok wrote:
I don't see the issue with the NPC. It's not like everyone has to follow all rules and content exactly and to a T. The characters could just as easily be any other race or gender. All it would require is a little bit of work on the DM's part. Their relationship would remain. If a DM feels like they couldn't properly portray the relationship/character(s) or if they don't agree with it, they can change it for the game. I personally find the relationship interesting and despite that, I doubt the whole "trans" issue will even come up in my game.

So true. Since the PC in my Reign of Winter game most potentially open to a romantic relationship is a gay male, I briefly considered making Nadya Petska a man.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

To Amber I say - bloody well done and hear hear. From my first read through looks to set a very good precedent for the AP... and has me anticipating the rest.


I like the adventure and the love the Mongrelmen get!, not a huge fan of this bestiary entry tho, hope the next is more to my taste, too much huge demons for my taste, I like smaller demons more..


This is directed to Mr. Jacobs...

Will there be a gazetteer about the Riftwardens at some point in the AP?

Also, I'm curious if you guys remember the piece Erik Mona did for Polyhedron 135 about Abyssal artifacts? What are chances of some of those ideas being recycled in an official capacity for use in this AP (in such a way to appease the OGL, of course)?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
mempter wrote:

This is directed to Mr. Jacobs...

Will there be a gazetteer about the Riftwardens at some point in the AP?

Also, I'm curious if you guys remember the piece Erik Mona did for Polyhedron 135 about Abyssal artifacts? What are chances of some of those ideas being recycled in an official capacity for use in this AP (in such a way to appease the OGL, of course)?

I believe that 99,9% of Polyhedron/Dugneon/Dragon content is IP of WotC, so unless we're talking about something taken from real-life mythology, it ain't happening.


A query on the campaign traits and their upgrades. In the Player's Guide it was said that you get the trait upgrade if you go with the associated Mythic path - is that still/actually the case? Or can you pick a different one and still get the upgrade? I know there's been a lot of talk on the Player's Guide and possibly the traits as well:

"Choosing a campaign trait that matches the mythic path you want to take will result in your campaign trait being enhanced when you do become mythic." ~Player's Guide

Should that line be ignored?


Gorbacz wrote:
I believe that 99,9% of Polyhedron/Dugneon/Dragon content is IP of WotC, so unless we're talking about something taken from real-life mythology, it ain't happening.

Yeah I know about Wizard IP, and I'm not talking about taking it as is, then plopping it into an OGL publication; I'm talking about reintroducing the concepts under new formats, as opposed to a direct translation.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Download completed.
Sooo. What about the save issue?

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