Pathfinder Adventure Path #73: The Worldwound Incursion (Wrath of the Righteous 1 of 6) (PFRPG)

Sigh. Done with this thread. Thanks for the earlier discourse folks.

Can we now focus the talk on the actual content of this volume of the AP? The backwards-forwards banter is seriously detracting/distracting from the AP content of this book.

Is this AP volume challenging?
How are the bestiary monsters? Demons of a good CR spread?
Does the last part sound good (given the fact that it should be covered in the overall synopsis)?
How much worldwound info is provided? Come to that does it even involve the worldwound as a location?
Artwork - any really good pieces that would make good minis in the upcoming set?
Also curious to see how the traits play out - there has been some discussion about the railroad nature of them. Any more info here?

There's a

Mass combat comes into play in Chapter Two, and fairly early on. I know this to be true. Just FYI to be helpful.

Thanks Jim. I have at least 1 player who looses interest if the focus shifts away from the players for too long. Hopefully I can integrate the PC's into the mass battles so it's not an issue.

There's a

** spoiler omitted **

Yeah, saw that entry in the paizo blog. More curious as to whether there are more lower level demons available to use. Mind you I imagine by the time the path finishes, and with all the support material we'll be overrun with demonic material (a little like lost sakoris really)

Yes, the AP volume is challenging. There are a lot of +2 and +3 APL combats. Also some DC 20 skill checks which is pretty harsh for 1st level characters.
There isn't much spread for the demons. One demon lord, one demon (connected to that Demon Lord), one weird sin finding familiar thingy and a race of Hernes. So things to like if you hate demons, too.
The last part sounds pretty epic but this AP will have major influences on Golarion either way.
There isn't much Worldwound info, and the mnodule takes place within a single border city. Althoguh the city is nicely detailed before and after the events that kick off the module.
There are quite a few very nice pieces. Most of the full sized images would be useful IMO as minis.
The traits are enhanced at the ned in the encounter that makes the characters mythic. The traits themselves have no direct impact on the adventure that I noticed. However, railroad complainers will not like the start which starts in media res and details how things got that bad.

Looks like this thread is doomed to be a pro-LGBT/anti-LGBT battlefield and any discussion not touching the subject is best taken to the WotR subforum :)

It's two characters. For [insert profanity/blasphemy here]'s sake, it's two characters! And you only meet one of them in the second half of the adventure. Good grief, hyperbole much?

Yes, the AP volume is challenging. There are a lot of +2 and +3 APL combats. Also some DC 20 skill checks which is pretty harsh for 1st level characters.

There isn't much spread for the demons. One demon lord, one demon (connected to that Demon Lord), one weird sin finding familiar thingy and a race of Hernes. So things to like if you hate demons, too.
The last part sounds pretty epic but this AP will have major influences on Golarion either way.
There isn't much Worldwound info, and the mnodule takes place within a single border city. Althoguh the city is nicely detailed before and after the events that kick off the module.
There are quite a few very nice pieces. Most of the full sized images would be useful IMO as minis.
The traits are enhanced at the ned in the encounter that makes the characters mythic. The traits themselves have no direct impact on the adventure that I noticed.

Carefully choosing to ignore every post after this one.

Thanks Paul. Now I'm even more excited about the AP. Although with a lot of +2 and +3 APL encounters this could spell doom for my usual group of players - they tend to be a bit bull in a china shop. Tried to curb it but they just don't seem to learn.

However, railroad complainers will not like the start which starts in media res and details how things got that bad.

Oh well a railroad is fine as long as its done subtly and sparingly. Most of the choices in an adventure have some degree of railroad anyway, the key is getting players to overlook it and think they were making the decisions themselves

I have at least 1 player who looses interest if the focus shifts away from the players for too long. Hopefully I can integrate the PC's into the mass battles so it's not an issue.

Do you have Reign of Winter Book Five? There's a new creature subtype that Hodges introduces in that book that can actually really help to offer a fantastic way to more integrate into mass combat!

It's two characters. For [insert profanity/blasphemy here]'s sake, it's two characters! And you only meet one of them in the second half of the adventure. Good grief, hyperbole much?

And it wouldn't even have been an issue at all if people hadn't started channeling this guy.

I'm ready to actually discuss the adventure myself.

Paul Watson wrote:

It's two characters. For [insert profanity/blasphemy here]'s sake, it's two characters! And you only meet one of them in the second half of the adventure. Good grief, hyperbole much?

And it wouldn't even have been an issue at all if people hadn't started channeling this guy.

I'm ready to actually discuss the adventure myself.

It's certainly going to be a tough one. As I said, I think my players may be terribly inclined to stuff at least one of the NPCs down a dark hole and bemoan his tragic fate inthe collapse. It will also be tough on those who charge in without thinking as they'll get ripped apart by some of the encounters. I mena, the villains are actually thinking about defensive strategy at some points. Surely that's unfair?

I think the mini-sandbox of new Kerebes will be fun as well as they'll realise if they draw too much attention they will get squashed until they hook up with the Eagle Knights. Well, I'd HOPE they realise this. Some PCs are far too confident of their plot armour. And after the mythic power-up they might have a point.

I also think many parties will struggle to earn devotion points. Which I suppose is the idea. Only those who go above and beyond 'kill the cultists and take their stuff' will merit the Inheritor's personal attention at this stage.

The three NPCs you're stuck with are a nice mix of annoying and useful. They have quirks that will drive players up the wall if they get out of hand, but they all contribute. The enhanced backstories will be very useful to flesh out the interactions and I like the idea of a cadre of NPCs who will continue to be reelvant, although I odubt essentuial given the risks of the game, to future modules. It will be good for the players to have their former allies react to their newfound status.

Kittyburger wrote:

Paul Watson wrote:

It's two characters. For [insert profanity/blasphemy here]'s sake, it's two characters! And you only meet one of them in the second half of the adventure. Good grief, hyperbole much?

And it wouldn't even have been an issue at all if people hadn't started channeling this guy.

I'm ready to actually discuss the adventure myself.

It's certainly going to be a tough one. As I said, I think my players may be terribly inclined to stuff at least one of the NPCs down a dark hole and bemoan his tragic fate inthe collapse. It will also be tough on those who charge in without thinking as they'll get ripped apart by some of the encounters. I mena, the villains are actually thinking about defensive strategy at some points. Surely that's unfair?

I think the mini-sandbox of new Kerebes will be fun as well as they'll realise if they draw too much attention they will get squashed until they hook up with the Eagle Knights. Well, I'd HOPE they realise this. Some PCs are far too confident of their plot armour. And after the mythic power-up they might have a point.

I also think many parties will struggle to earn devotion points. Which I suppose is the idea. Only those who go above and beyond 'kill the cultists and take their stuff' will merit the Inheritor's personal attention at this stage.

The three NPCs you're stuck with are a nice mix of annoying and useful. They have quirks that will drive players up the wall if they get out of hand, but they all contribute. The enhanced backstories will be very useful to flesh out the interactions and I like the idea of a cadre of NPCs who will continue to be reelvant, although I odubt essentuial given the risks of the game, to future modules. It will be good for the players to have their former allies react to their newfound status.

The defensive strategy of the villains is a really nice change. Too many adventures have the limit of an enemy's defensive strategy be "tries to escape when they reach 5 HP." Given the amount of damage a PC can dish out, they should be defending a lot more carefully and trying to bug out with a much bigger HP cushion.

I was kind of curious how that will be handled as well, particularly if one or more people do not survive. A lot of them are described as the last of this or that in the area, and it does seem that the story would need to change significantly if any of the NPCs are not around after say the midway point onward.

Thanks Paul. Now I'm even more excited about the AP. Although with a lot of +2 and +3 APL encounters this could spell doom for my usual group of players - they tend to be a bit bull in a china shop. Tried to curb it but they just don't seem to learn.

Though, to counteract the power of the encounters, the AP offers NPCs that pack quite a bit of punch:

In fact, this must be, by far, the highest-powered Volume 1 of any AP Paizo has ever published. Of course, it is appropriate for a Mythic campaign. I'm not sure how I feel though, about how generous the AP is with XP specifically (including its suggestion on page 5 not to reduce the PCs' share of XP even when they are supported by significant NPC firepower). The designers definitely had the goal of getting parties to Level 6 (an important milestone for several reasons) as quickly as possible, come hell or high water. I'm guessing this volume will have the feel of being on the Fast XP track as a result.

I think the "this is what happened to you" introduction has me concerned about how to make it memorable and exciting in play. I'd like to know in the GM Reference thread if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on this.

Well, with that in mind, it has also been said that this AP will also be the first to go all the way to level 20 in the end, rather than 14-16ish like most. It sounds like they are trying to incorporate a lot of new tactics into this one.

I think the mini-sandbox of new Kerebes will be fun as well as they'll realise if they draw too much attention they will get squashed until they hook up with the Eagle Knights. Well, I'd HOPE they realise this. Some PCs are far too confident of their plot armour. And after the mythic power-up they might have a point.

I also think many parties will struggle to earn devotion points. Which I suppose is the idea. Only those who go above and beyond 'kill the cultists and take their stuff' will merit the Inheritor's personal attention at this stage.

Devotion points? How does that work?

Mechalibur,

I think the "this is what happened to you" introduction has me concerned about how to make it memorable and exciting in play. I'd like to know in the GM Reference thread if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on this.

I don't think its going to be a big deal for most groups. I'm running WotR as a PbP on Enworld and the general sentiment of of the opening scene was that it was one hell of an awesome way to start a campaign. It does a good job at setting the tone.

Yes, I ran the first few encounters for my group yesterday, and the opening scene definitely had all the players excited and scared about what was going to happen next. :)

Any word on when/if this one will be open for PFS play. I am waiting on it and Carrion Crown, and it would be amazing if both come out at the same time, probably after things slow down a bit.

Also really curious how the PFS would handle Mythic?

Any word on when/if this one will be open for PFS play. I am waiting on it and Carrion Crown, and it would be amazing if both come out at the same time, probably after things slow down a bit.

Also really curious how the PFS would handle Mythic?

I would speculate that they intend not to make mythic PFS legal so soon, but Paizo is surprisingly awesome. I'd hope they use the delay to add more chronicles for more of the back issue APs. And maybe the 3.5e modules, while I'm hoping.

"Devil's Advocate" wrote:

Any word on when/if this one will be open for PFS play. I am waiting on it and Carrion Crown, and it would be amazing if both come out at the same time, probably after things slow down a bit.

Also really curious how the PFS would handle Mythic?

I would speculate that they intend not to make mythic PFS legal so soon, but Paizo is surprisingly awesome. I'd hope they use the delay to add more chronicles for more of the back issue APs. And maybe the 3.5e modules, while I'm hoping.

I would assume that it would be only allowed within the AP, but I also partially agree about upgrading the older material, too. Carrion Crown and perhaps Legacy of Fire. Personally not interested in the others so much except for the most unlikely Age of Worms.

Removed a few more posts.

Sigh. Just got back from three weeks vacation and trying to catch up on threads. It's always great to have to sift through pages of "social dysentery" to catch up.

Anyway, has the Demon Lords and Mythic Saves issue been addressed on any of the Mythic-related (or otherwise) threads yet?

Okay . . . I've officially learned my lesson! I'll not attach other desired purchases in with my subscriptions to lessen the S&H charges anymore! All right? All right?!?

Can I please get my shipping notice now? I'm dying to bloody read this first installment already!

PS - The first paragraph was written in jest . . . I realize the delay drags because of GenCon. Doesn't mean I'm not getting antsy here! ;)

On Devotion Points; ** spoiler omitted **

Ooh, I like that. The more we see the *good* gods at least tangentially doing stuff, the more I like it!

This is directed to Mr. Jacobs...

Will there be a gazetteer about the Riftwardens at some point in the AP?

Also, I'm curious if you guys remember the piece Erik Mona did for Polyhedron 135 about Abyssal artifacts? What are chances of some of those ideas being recycled in an official capacity for use in this AP (in such a way to appease the OGL, of course)?

No Riftwarden article. There's some Riftwarden and Blackfire Adept stuff in the body of a few adventures though.

And yeah... all of that Polyhedron stuff is owned by WotC. Chances of that content being used in Pathfinder are at roughly 0%.

I would like to see Paizo's internal notes on how LGBTQ+ characters fit into Golarion, sometime and somehow... not that I ever expect to see them published in a formal book anywhere (a girl can dream, though...), but we've seen enticing hints here and there.

I've written up a for-personal-use list of the deities of Golarion I think would be particularly trans friendly and I sometimes wonder how it matches up to Paizo's.

(If Anevia's devotions are any indicator, though, I bet there's a fairly close confluence between my list and Paizo's)

Those notes are basically as follows:

GLBT characters exist in Golarion, so make sure they're included.

As long as Paizo continues to have GLBT employees, we'll continue to put GLBT characters into our products. In fact, even if the employee thing changes, we'll still put GLBT characters into our products. As long as I have anything to say about it at least. There's a gay couple in the next adventure, in fact, so the inclusiveness isn't stopping with Anevia and Irabeth in this AP.

Furthermore, I'm gonna keep doing this in our APs until it's no longer an issue and folks just talk about the adventure without really pausing to discuss whether any one NPC is a sorcerer or wizard. And at that point I'll keep doing it.

Anyway... keep on topic. And since there are LBGT characters in the adventure, that part of the discussion IS on topic... but keep it civil, please!

Sigh. Just got back from three weeks vacation and trying to catch up on threads. It's always great to have to sift through pages of "social dysentery" to catch up.

Anyway, has the Demon Lords and Mythic Saves issue been addressed on any of the Mythic-related (or otherwise) threads yet?

Demon lords are part of an unusual "hybrid" caste of creature. I forget the phrasing we use in Bestiary 4 for them, but while they don't have the "mythic" subtype, they are considered "mythic equivalent" or some such. And should be treated as mythic for the purposes of resolving things like saving throws.

(The problem being that the mythic subtype has a LOT of baggage that goes with it, and the design philosophy of the demon lords was such that they didn't all necessarily NEED that specific baggage.)

Paul Watson wrote:

On Devotion Points; ** spoiler omitted **

Ooh, I like that. The more we see the *good* gods at least tangentially doing stuff, the more I like it!

There's several points where the good gods, particularly Iomedae, get tangentially involved in this AP. And in fact...

There's several points where the good gods, particularly Iomedae, get tangentially involved in this AP. And in fact...

Spoiler:

...there's at least one point where one of the good gods gets more than tangentially involved. To the point where we'll be doing a head illustration like we do for ALL key and important NPCs that the PCs can encounter and interact with.

Oooh! I am now officially excited for the AP.

(TAKE MY MONEY AND SHIP MY SUBS!)

*deep breath* I feel better now.

;-)

There's a gay couple in the next adventure, in fact, so the inclusiveness isn't stopping with Anevia and Irabeth in this AP.

This couple in the next issue wouldn't happen to be that group from the Rivals book ? I believe they where called the argent something but unforunately the full name escapes me I remeber their was a oracle gnome or hafling, a fighter/duelist, fighter and a wizard.

James Jacobs wrote:

There's a gay couple in the next adventure, in fact, so the inclusiveness isn't stopping with Anevia and Irabeth in this AP.

This couple in the next issue wouldn't happen to be that group from the Rivals book ? I believe they where called the argent something but unforunately the full name escapes me I remeber their was a oracle gnome or hafling, a fighter/duelist, fighter and a wizard.

The Argent Blades I think? That would be interesting.

I'm looking through my friend's copy of this volume and I am severely disappointed by something. Despite being the cutest thing on two wings the sin seekers have no rules for being improved familiars that i can find. Would 7th level any alignment be good requirements for one?

Edit: I appear to have missed the last line in their habitat and society section. Disregard.

Just got the PDF and skimmed it but...

I just wanted to say I really really liked Anevia NPC.

James Jacobs wrote:

There's a gay couple in the next adventure, in fact, so the inclusiveness isn't stopping with Anevia and Irabeth in this AP.

This couple in the next issue wouldn't happen to be that group from the Rivals book ? I believe they where called the argent something but unforunately the full name escapes me I remeber their was a oracle gnome or hafling, a fighter/duelist, fighter and a wizard.

Nope. We've never brought in any of the Rivals Guide NPCs into any adventures as far as I know, nor are there plans to.

Just got the PDF and skimmed it but...

I just wanted to say I really really liked Anevia NPC.

Anevia's background feels pretty realistic to me, although with the caveat that "the narrative" (the idea of having "always known" that you were trans) doesn't always hold up in reality. Julia Serano theorizes that trans girls who are same-sex attracted are more likely to recognize their transness in or slightly after adolescence because we are socially programmed to (a) code female-attraction as an overridingly "male" trait and (b) disregard social and psychological discomfort when not absolutely unbearable. I also like her as a character, and I adore her wife.

Finally got a look at it. :D

Noticed an odd omsission. In the July 25th blog entry, the following is noted about a Demon Lord in his/her home realm:

Mythic: A demon lord functions as a 10th mythic rank creature, including the mythic power ability (10/day, surge +1d12). It may expend uses of mythic power to use the mythic versions of any spell-like ability denoted with an asterisk (*) just as if the ability were a mythic spell.

Compare that to what actually shows up in this volume:

Mythic: All of the demon lord’s spell-like abilities function as the mythic versions of those spells as applicable. The demon lord gains the mythic power and surge universal mythic monster abilities (see Pathfinder RPG Mythic Adventures 226). A demon lord gains a d12 surge die.

The bolded part is where I'm having an issue. In the blog entry, the rules are very clear and concise: 10th-rank mythic creature, surge 10/day. In the final version however, there's no indication what the Demon Lord's mythic rank is or how often it can use mythic power. Why was the wording changed specifically to be more vague and nebulous? Also, what mythic rank are Demon Lords and how often can they use surge?