Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures (OGL)

Realmwalker wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Mythic Power Attack should have died in a fire, but it seems it survived its needlessly confusing way into the final copy. That's a bummer.

Confusing?

It is +3's instead of +2's, the extra damage is applied to criticals spend 1 mythic power to negate the to hit penalty for one minute.

it read very simple to me at least...

+3s instead of +2s...but what about two handed weapons?

Extra damage from the feat is doubled before being applied to critical modifier?

So let's pretend I have my greataxe, and normally hit for 1d12+7. With power attack at level 10, my barbarian is hitting for 1d12+16. On a crit, he rolls damage and multiplies it by 3.

But mythic power attack...hmm. Do I use +4 damage per -1? Let's assume not, for a second. Now, my same power attack is 1d12+16. But on a crit, I have to double the bonus damage from power attack (or is it just from mythic power attack?) first, before multiplying it by 3, so now it becomes 3[1d12+7+2(9)].

Sure, you can write out that your damage is 1d12+16 (power attack), 1d12+25x3 on a crit, but that's just needless complication to something that was once very simple.

I would imagine it would be +4.5 (rounding down) per penalty point, by the '2 handed weapons give x1.5 damage bonus' rule?

There is still a universal path, right? Nobody has mentioned what abilities are from there.

Its not a path, but yes, there are universal Path abilities. Mythic Spellcasting is one of them, so you can, as a spellcaster, go into any Path and still get Mythic spells. Legendary Item is another Mythic Path ability, which lets you transform one of your positions into a Legendary item.

Question: would there be any mechanical issues with giving 1st level characters 10 mythic tiers? It's just a little thought experiment I have.

In the playtest, the biggest issue with that was that most of the mythic feats have normal feats as prerequisites, and (aside from human monks) no one's going to have five feats already at level 1. This is also assuming I didn't overlook some kind of rule like "mythic tiers cannot exceed class levels."

Question: would there be any mechanical issues with giving 1st level characters 10 mythic tiers? It's just a little thought experiment I have.

In the playtest, the biggest issue with that was that most of the mythic feats have normal feats as prerequisites, and (aside from human monks) no one's going to have five feats already at level 1. This is also assuming I didn't overlook some kind of rule like "mythic tiers cannot exceed class levels."

This is covered: A character can delay their acquisition of a mythic feat until they meet the prerequisites. Thus, your 1st-level/10th-tier character would only have a few feats, but as s/he grew in level, newly acquired feats could be made mythic.

Xenophile wrote:

Question: would there be any mechanical issues with giving 1st level characters 10 mythic tiers? It's just a little thought experiment I have.

In the playtest, the biggest issue with that was that most of the mythic feats have normal feats as prerequisites, and (aside from human monks) no one's going to have five feats already at level 1. This is also assuming I didn't overlook some kind of rule like "mythic tiers cannot exceed class levels."

This is covered: A character can delay their acquisition of a mythic feat until they meet the prerequisites. Thus, your 1st-level/10th-tier character would only have a few feats, but as s/he grew in level, newly acquired feats could be made mythic.

Sounds fair. The other issue was that a lot of path abilities seemed to only be useful when you had multiple attacks/high-level spells/etc, but all the preview material I've seen looks like there's a wider selection now. I'm gonna have to try this out after I get the book...

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around this one:

Perfect Preparation (Ex): You have discovered the secret to preparing spells without having to refer to outside sources. You no longer need to prepare spells from a spellbook (if you’re a magus or wizard) or a familiar (if you’re a witch). You still must spend the normal amount of time preparing spells. You may keep or discard your spellbook or familiar.

...Okay, for a witch I can see this -- the familiar is the witch's only spellbook, and this just shifts the mechanic into the witch's own head. But wizards and magi? They could potentially have whole shelves of spellbooks gleaned from various sources, not necessarily all in the same location. How do you determine what spells a book-user has access to?

Any spell he's ever transcribed into any spellbook he owns, plus any new spells he gains access to.

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Realmwalker wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Mythic Power Attack should have died in a fire, but it seems it survived its needlessly confusing way into the final copy. That's a bummer.

Confusing?

It is +3's instead of +2's, the extra damage is applied to criticals spend 1 mythic power to negate the to hit penalty for one minute.

it read very simple to me at least...

+3s instead of +2s...but what about two handed weapons?

I would imagine it would be +4.5 (rounding down) per penalty point, by the '2 handed weapons give x1.5 damage bonus' rule?

I imagine it might be that. However, it certainly isn't clear if the +50% clause applies only to normal power attack or mythic as well, it makes the math less solid, unlike the original and there is still the horrible 'doubles on a crit before the multiplier' bit.

Plus, the description of mythic power attack on the feats table in no way resembles the text of the feat itself.

Question: would there be any mechanical issues with giving 1st level characters 10 mythic tiers? It's just a little thought experiment I have.

In the playtest, the biggest issue with that was that most of the mythic feats have normal feats as prerequisites, and (aside from human monks) no one's going to have five feats already at level 1. This is also assuming I didn't overlook some kind of rule like "mythic tiers cannot exceed class levels."

The main part where it would get weird is with abilities whose save DC is based on the character's mythic tier. Their mythic abilities would have very high save DCs, but their class abilities would be somewhat weak.

But mythic power attack...hmm. Do I use +4 damage per -1? Let's assume not, for a second."

Originally, I felt like you were going out of your way to dislike the feat -- and I still kind of do. I agree that the text is hilariously poorly written, but take a step back for a minute and remember power attack -- it's a relatively minor effort to figure this out.

But when I actually started rewriting the feat, I saw something I'd completely forgotten about.

In addition, the bonus damage from this feat is doubled on a critical hit, before it’s multiplied by the weapon’s critical multiplier.

I have to wonder what the thought process that lead to this was. Was the bonus damage not good enough? The ability to ignore the penalty for one entire minute too weak? The feat already makes Furious FocusM obsolete. [/cringe]

That said, though, to the naysayers, I say: have a little faith. Nobody's perfect and they're trying their best. I'm confident it'll get there one way or another.

I preordered mine back in June, I think, and because I delayed shipping to coincide with the release of Bestiary 4, I have a question. The order says "pending", but does that mean I can still go ahead and download the pdf? Or do I get that at all when ordering the hard copy?

You wont get the PDF if you just preordered the hardcopy, you only get it for free if you are subscribed.

I didn't really follow the playtest, so here's a question for those who did: what's with the three abilities that every path can choose from at 1st-level? I'm talking about archmage arcana, champion's strike, guardian's call, divine surge, marshal's order, and trickster attack. Why are these otpions separate from the other path abilities? Additionally, why do some paths (guardian, marshal, trickster) have standard path abilities that allow them to choose a second or even third of these, while other paths (archmage, champion, hierophant) do not?

This is an idle curiosity. Just wondering why these abilities were treated as "special."

There are none. The "Universal Path" just means a series of Path Abilities that anyone can pick from. You have to be either an Archmage, Champion, Guardian, Hierophant, Marshal, or Trickster.

I didn't really follow the playtest, so here's a question for those who did: what's with the three abilities that every path can choose from at 1st-level? I'm talking about archmage arcana, champion's strike, guardian's call, divine surge, marshal's order, and trickster attack. Why are these otpions separate from the other path abilities? Additionally, why do some paths (guardian, marshal, trickster) have standard path abilities that allow them to choose a second or even third of these, while other paths (archmage, champion, hierophant) do not?

This is an idle curiosity. Just wondering why these abilities were treated as "special."

I think that is a question which only the designers can answer.

Please tell me they included a Mythic Feat that stops the aging process of your character PERMANENTLY! If so, please give details on it.

Such a feat is not included, sorry.

It's a Universal Path ability instead. Well, kinda.
You still age, you just don't get any penalties or die.
Yay for shriveled up 300 year old barbarians!

Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no
longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your
physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take
those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all
the benefits to your mental ability scores.

Well, basically that is immortality, with only the good parts of aging (getting increased mental ability scores) left in.

Well, it doesn't say anything about your looks. So you probably will look pretty old, pretty soon.
Hence the shriveled up barbarian (which kinda is a trope in itself).

But fluffing yourself as young looking should usually be no problem I guess.

Okay, that is of course a valid interpretation.

Such a feat is not included, sorry.

It's a Universal Path ability instead. Well, kinda.
You still age, you just don't get any penalties or die.
Yay for shriveled up 300 year old barbarians!

Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no
longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your
physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take
those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all
the benefits to your mental ability scores.

Seriously? You still age but don't die? What the hell Paizo! You couldn't have at least given us an ability for our characters to keep their youthful appearance? Who the hell wants a character with all the physical fitness of the Terminator but all the beauty and sex appeal of BABA BLEEPING YAGA?

Dear Grandmother has a Charisma of 32. Just saying.

Quote:

Such a feat is not included, sorry.

It's a Universal Path ability instead. Well, kinda.
You still age, you just don't get any penalties or die.
Yay for shriveled up 300 year old barbarians!

Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no
longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your
physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take
those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all
the benefits to your mental ability scores.

Seriously? You still age but don't die? What the hell Paizo! You couldn't have at least given us an ability for our characters to keep their youthful appearance? Who the hell wants a character with all the physical fitness of the Terminator but all the beauty and sex appeal of BABA BLEEPING YAGA?

I thin what it means is that you still have the ability to gain the bonuses, but not the penalties. So, for example a Young Templated Creature could grow up, and a otherwise normal person would still get wiser and more calm and patient, but they would not age or grow weaker or sickly. If you want to flavor it so that you physically age, sure, but it doesn't sound like that was intended as part of this power.

Mythic Spellpower - gain 2 points of mythic power that can be used only to power mythic spells. Can be taken three times. Guess that means extra mythic power is gone.... OH WAIT. NO IT ISN'T! THIS ABILITY IS WORSE IN EVERY ****ING WAY THAN EXTRA MYTHIC POWER (WHICH YOU CAN TAKE AT TIER 1). WTF? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Also, regarding the "mythic spellpower" ability, yes it is substandard. But there's one way it could be used: say you're an archmage who really, really likes casting mythic spells. You would take "extra mythic power," but can only take that a maximum of 3 times. Thereafter, the only way to increase your ability to cast more mythic spells is with "mythic spellpower."

Is it the best choice, or even a good choice? No, but it is an option. I'd rather have more options than not, even if they aren't all optimal.

Actually, you can only take Extra Mythic Power once. It's a feat. If taken multiple times, it's effects do not stack unless it says so. I know that most of the normal "Extra" feats can be taken multiple times, but this feat includes no such text. Not only that, but Extra Mythic Power is a Mythic Feat. You can only take a grand total of 5 Mythic Feats EVER. Maybe there are other feats that are more important to you. Mythic Spellpower is a Path Ability. At Tier 3 and onward, you have have 8 opportunities to take it up to three time. It may be limited, but it's far more available. Now I don't know if the Mythic "Extra" feats intentionally left off the "can be taken multiple times" clause, but it kind of makes since for those feats to be limited to only once.

Also, based on the wording, it's unclear (to me, at least) if you can use Mythic Spellpower to cast the augmented version of a mythic spell for free. It doesn't say you get 2 extra points of mythic power to just use for mythic spells. It says you can cast a mythic spell twice per day without spending ANY mythic power. An augmented version of a mythic spell is still a mythic spell, right? I don't know if that's intended or not, but it can be taken that way.

EDIT: Sorry, I see now you were taking about the Universal Path Ability called Extra Mythic Power. And I see that there is also a Universal Path Ability to get more Mythic Feats.... That's kind of confusing to have two things named the same. So I guess the above possibility is my only arguing point now.... Oh well.

Anyway, I'm still reading through the book. That was just something that caught my eye that I remembered from Peter's rant. I really like it so far, although it really does make swift/immediate actions a very hot commodity. I imagine making some very hard choices as to how you use it each turn.

Seriously? You still age but don't die? What the hell Paizo! You couldn't have at least given us an ability for our characters to keep their youthful appearance? Who the hell wants a character with all the physical fitness of the Terminator but all the beauty and sex appeal of BABA BLEEPING YAGA?

While it doesn't mention keeping your youthful appearance, one could interpret the lack of aging penalties to physical ability scores in that manner. IE, you still age, but you're not getting weaker and less fit or shriveled like other characters that age. Plus, you continue to gain age-related Charisma bonuses. Presumably, unlike the non-longevity gifted, that could reflect your youthful appearance as well as the charm of age.

Just because it isn't explicitly stated, doesn't mean you can't make some assumptions.

Berselius wrote:

Seriously? You still age but don't die? What the hell Paizo! You couldn't have at least given us an ability for our characters to keep their youthful appearance? Who the hell wants a character with all the physical fitness of the Terminator but all the beauty and sex appeal of BABA BLEEPING YAGA?

While it doesn't mention keeping your youthful appearance, one could interpret the lack of aging penalties to physical ability scores in that manner. IE, you still age, but you're not getting weaker and less fit or shriveled like other characters that age. Plus, you continue to gain age-related Charisma bonuses. Presumably, unlike the non-longevity gifted, that could reflect your youthful appearance as well as the charm of age.

Just because it isn't explicitly stated, doesn't mean you can't make some assumptions.

It is also worth mentioning, that Baba Yaga decided to get old before becoming immortal, and from the language of the ability, you might as well not look like you age. Other than that I agree 100% with your post.

The channel power ability (page 19, an archmage ability, that requires tier 6) seems way to good, especially if you use it with potent mythic spells.
Could it be that this ability is only supposed to work with non-mythic spells?

Quote:

Such a feat is not included, sorry.

It's a Universal Path ability instead. Well, kinda.
You still age, you just don't get any penalties or die.
Yay for shriveled up 300 year old barbarians!

Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no
longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your
physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take
those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all
the benefits to your mental ability scores.

Seriously? You still age but don't die? What the hell Paizo! You couldn't have at least given us an ability for our characters to keep their youthful appearance? Who the hell wants a character with all the physical fitness of the Terminator but all the beauty and sex appeal of BABA BLEEPING YAGA?

Grandma Yaga (that is what the first part of her name means, my pretties), gets a great deal of mileage out of now unfashionable fearsomeness (and wisdom) of the old. After all, any creature that visibly indicates: I am this old, which means nothing has killed me yet, and stuff probably has tried, and I deserve respect.

Meh, as far as my games are concerned, Longevity will stop the aging process when you take it, at whatever age that happens to be.

Berselius wrote:

Quote:

Such a feat is not included, sorry.

It's a Universal Path ability instead. Well, kinda.
You still age, you just don't get any penalties or die.
Yay for shriveled up 300 year old barbarians!

Longevity (Su): Upon taking this ability, you can no
longer die from old age. If you have penalties to your
physical ability scores due to aging, you no longer take
those penalties. You still continue to age, and you gain all
the benefits to your mental ability scores.

Seriously? You still age but don't die? What the hell Paizo! You couldn't have at least given us an ability for our characters to keep their youthful appearance? Who the hell wants a character with all the physical fitness of the Terminator but all the beauty and sex appeal of BABA BLEEPING YAGA?

Grandma Yaga (that is what the first part of her name means, my pretties), gets a great deal of mileage out of now unfashionable fearsomeness (and wisdom) of the old. After all, any creature that visibly indicates: I am this old, which means nothing has killed me yet, and stuff probably has tried, and I deserve respect.

You know... She had to conceive Rasputin and the Irrisen Queens somehow... That's known 15 progeny and there likely was a 16th before RoW.

She's getting some from someone. Just sayin'.

Also, based on the wording, it's unclear (to me, at least) if you can use Mythic Spellpower to cast the augmented version of a mythic spell for free. It doesn't say you get 2 extra points of mythic power to just use for mythic spells. It says you can cast a mythic spell twice per day without spending ANY mythic power. An augmented version of a mythic spell is still a mythic spell, right? I don't know if that's intended or not, but it can be taken that way.

I can see that argument. The ability mentions that twice per day, you can use the ability to cast a mythic spell without spending any uses of mythic power (italics are word for word from the text, bolded by me for emphasis). It does use the plural, so one could argue that by the RAW, you could spend the equivalent of half a dozen (or so) uses of mythic power, and it still wouldn't actually cost you anything. The spell you cast does have to be a mythic spell, but as long as it is, you can burn as many mythic upgrades as you want.

You know... She had to conceive Rasputin and the Irrisen Queens somehow... That's known 15 progeny and there likely was a 16th before RoW.

She's getting some from someone. Just sayin'.

She does also have access to the entire Sorc/Wizard and entire Witch spell list. If she wanted, she could just cast Alter Self or something to that effect (there's a Witch spell that allows you to transform into the "maiden" element of the Maiden-Mother-Crone, too), and then hop into bed with whoever.

I believe it's mentioned that the Irrisen queens tend to look a bit less human (the picture of Elvanna in the Irrisen book is somewhat alien-seeming in appearance, as if she has definite non-human ancestry in there somewhere). Baba Yaga could quite possibly be using magic to help herself along the way.

Meh, as far as my games are concerned, Longevity will stop the aging process when you take it, at whatever age that happens to be.

As far as I am concerned Starsunder won the Internet for at least a second.

The rules are a toolkit for the GM. This isn't true for PFS, I grant you, but that is a special situation.

These sort of things should be interpreted by the GM so that it works best for their group and maximizes fun.

With Mythic Initiative's ability to give you another standard action, Lightning Stance is going to be a lot more useful.

Please tell me they included a Mythic Feat that stops the aging process of your character PERMANENTLY! If so, please give details on it.

I've seen two abilities that stop you from aging.

The first is the aforementioned Logetivity universal path power. You continue getting older, but you never die of old age and suffer no ill penalties for being old.

The second is part of the Legendary item rules. It is called Everlasting. While you are carrying your legendary item, you don't need to eat or sleep, do not age, do not need to breathe, and never suffer the ill effects of temperature (basically super endure elements). The flavor is very much of Tuck Everlasting in which case being immortal and never changing is presented as more of a curse than a boon.

Both of these abilities are part of various path abilities, but there is a Mythic feat that allows you to select an additional Path ability. So while they're not feats, you can spend a feat to get one.

Starsunder wrote:

Meh, as far as my games are concerned, Longevity will stop the aging process when you take it, at whatever age that happens to be.

As far as I am concerned Starsunder won the Internet for at least a second.

The rules are a toolkit for the GM. This isn't true for PFS, I grant you, but that is a special situation.

These sort of things should be interpreted by the GM so that it works best for their group and maximizes fun.

There really is a first time for everything! :D

*Sigh* I had really hoped the "+20 circumstance bonus to an ability check" universal abilities had been dropped. Those were some of my most hated abilities.

I made a mythic starsoul sorcerer (void-soul from Ultimate Magic) as a test run and gave him the longevity power. Because his source of mythic power is alien and unknowable (beings of the Dark Tapestry), he appears ageless. Which is to say, no one can put a finger on how old he is physically. Maybe he's 20, maybe he's 40, maybe 60. There just aren't any tells normally associated with the aging process. This helps accentuate his alieness.

*Sigh* I had really hoped the "+20 circumstance bonus to an ability check" universal abilities had been dropped. Those were some of my most hated abilities.

Good News!

MalignantMind wrote:

*Sigh* I had really hoped the "+20 circumstance bonus to an ability check" universal abilities had been dropped. Those were some of my most hated abilities.

Good News!

** spoiler omitted **

ROFL, +1 Internet good sir.

I don't know what most people think of the "+20 circumstance bonus to an ability check" universal abilities but they are cool to have around I think. It's hard enough getting bonuses to ability score rolls.

I like the strength one because it's cool that you can choose something that essentially gives you super strength at any level.

I just can't wait to see what items and abilities they will add with Mythic Origins and Mythic Realms! :)

I imagine it might be that. However, it certainly isn't clear if the +50% clause applies only to normal power attack or mythic as well, it makes the math less solid, unlike the original and there is still the horrible 'doubles on a crit before the multiplier' bit.

Plus, the description of mythic power attack on the feats table in no way resembles the text of the feat itself.

I only have two issues with the mythic PA. As you say the description in the table bears no resemblance to the actual feat and I don't think the second paragraph is not at all necessary - the negation of the penalty is OTT, certainly not present in mythic deadly aim. Could easily achieve this by having a mythic version of furious assault that simply negates ALL of the PA penalties.

As for the difficulty in applying it. I read it the same as a prior post, x1.5 for two handed as per the standard, so +4 points per.

I suppose some things will always escape through in a first print. Lets wait and see what come of it.

Did not see this posted so here it is:

6th 3rd — Force of will

yet says 7th:

Force of Will (Ex): At 7th tier, you can exert your will to
force events to unfold as you would like. As an immediate
action, you can expend one use of mythic power to reroll a
d20 roll you just made, or force any non-mythic creature
to reroll a d20 roll it just made. You can use this ability
after the results are revealed. Whoever rerolls a roll must
take the result of the second roll, even if it is lower.

Which is correct?

The usual rule in 3/3.5e was that text trumps table, so I'm inclined to go the same way here.

The usual rule in 3/3.5e was that text trumps table, so I'm inclined to go the same way here.

Ordinarily that's the case, but I get the feeling Force of Will is supposed to be at 6th.

For one thing, moving it to 7th leaves a gap in the table at 6th.

Dear Grandmother has a Charisma of 32. Just saying.

That's what some folks call a GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGMILF .

Paul Watson wrote:

Dear Grandmother has a Charisma of 32. Just saying.

That's what some folks call a GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGMILF .

Or proof that Charisma doesn't necessarily mean you're physically attractive per se.

Since Mythic Deadly Aim doesn't have the same doubleing-added-damage-before-multiplying-on-crit text that Mythic Power Attack does, I'm inclined to either drop it from power attack or (significantly less likely) add it to deadly aim.

I want my pdf!

(pout)