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Honestly it isn't a matter of what classes fit each Mythic Path, it's a matter of what path you want to take your character down.
Champions are good with classes that want to hit things with pointy stabby things, so your full BAB classes but also your Rogues/Ninja that focus more on stabby then conniving or who dual path.
Archmage is good for ANYONE that casts arcane spells. So yes Wizards, Sorcerer, and Witches, but also Bards, Magi, and Summoners who might Duel Path into Trickster or Marshall (Summoners and Bards) or Champion (Magus) or Guardian (Summoners and Magus). Some uncertainty when it comes to Alchemist due to its wonky mechanics.
Guardian is good for anyone that wants DR/EPIC or other survival mechanics. Damage absorption and such. Really a good Duel Path all around.
Hierophant is good for ANYONE that casts divine spells. So yes Clerics and Oracles, but it can be a good main or duel path for an Inquisitor or a good duel path for a Paladin/Antipaladin.
Trickster lacked focus in the Playtest but it's supposed to be the go-to for Rogues, Ninjas, and maybe Bards. Anyone, really, who focuses on deception. Hopefully the version in the actual book will be a bit more exciting then the playtest version.
As to the Marshal. Anyone who has a huge focus on leadership and people would likely be a Marshall. The main go to would be a Bard but Cavaliers and Paladins who lead troops and try to be personable would find this path agreeable. Essentially this path is for those who like to support their allies and friends, tacticians, strategists, and demagogues. People with Leadership or Eidolons and Animal Companions might find this to be a good Main or Duel Path as is their wont.
Just to give an example of how flexible this system is, let's take the Iconic Paladin Seelah and the Iconic Aasimar who is a paladin of Ragathiel. Seelah was shown to be the Iconic Guardian in the playtest document which fits her story as she became a paladin to protect people, to defend the weak and such, when another paladin fought and died to protect her and others. She could choose to never Duel Path, but she could also choose to duel path into Champion, Hierophant, or Marshal. Considering her artwork on Ultimate Campaign, her most likely duel path is Marshal. But the Iconic Aasimar worships Ragathiel who is ALL about taking the fight to the enemies! Rather then focusing on being a Guardian of the weak, like Seelah, he goes down the Champion path because he likes to kick butt and take names! Now he could duel path into Guardian (quite likely considering his artwork on Blood of Angels), Hierophant, or Marshall but his main focus is likely on being a Champion.
So, it really is all about the individual characters when it comes to which paths yours should take. Most fighters would likely focus on Champion but a few might instead want to be all that is HP with the Guardian. A Magus could focus on either Champion or Archmage and duel path into the other option but my own Varisian Magus would likely try to fit the Trickster archetype in their somehow as that's a bit of a focus on his part what with him being the head of the Sczarni of Korvosa.
Isn't that already discernable from the playtest?
We're not sure, its quite possible that the entire system got a significant overhaul since the Playtest. Jason Bulmahn has remarked about making "significant changes" and James Jacobs has noted in the "Ask James Jacobs" thread that the six paths are themed after the six ability scores rather than, "Classes X, Y, and Z take this path, classes A, B,C take this path," and so forth.
Granted, we'll see how true this ends up ringing when the Playtest comes out, I have my reservations. After all, if "archmage" is the Intelligence-themed path, its pretty hard to imagine anyone but spellcasters going that route. Which is just plain sad, if the intent is to tie the paths to ability scores.
Because the Kirin Strike / Focused Shot build says hello.
Creative Director
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Isn't that already discernable from the playtest?We're not sure, its quite possible that the entire system got a significant overhaul since the Playtest. Jason Bulmahn has remarked about making "significant changes" and James Jacobs has noted in the "Ask James Jacobs" thread that the six paths are themed after the six ability scores rather than, "Classes X, Y, and Z take this path, classes A, B,C take this path," and so forth.
Granted, we'll see how true this ends up ringing when the Playtest comes out, I have my reservations. After all, if "archmage" is the Intelligence-themed path, its pretty hard to imagine anyone but spellcasters going that route. Which is just plain sad, if the intent is to tie the paths to ability scores.
Because the Kirin Strike / Focused Shot build says hello.
The paths are not "tied" to ability scores. They have ALWAYS been inspired by ability scores, though—this was even the case in the playtest document. It simply wasn't stated out loud in print that this was the theme along which we built the six paths.
There are no ability score minimums required in order to take or excel in any one path. An arcane spellcaster who doesn't use intelligence and in fact dump-statted intelligence can make just as much use of the archmage path as the smartest wizard on the planet.
The paths are not "tied" to ability scores. They have ALWAYS been inspired by ability scores, though—this was even the case in the playtest document. It simply wasn't stated out loud in print that this was the theme along which we built the six paths.
There are no ability score minimums required in order to take or excel in any one path. An arcane spellcaster who doesn't use intelligence and in fact dump-statted intelligence can make just as much use of the archmage path as the smartest wizard on the planet.
I'm sort of torn on this. On one hand, I can see where you're coming from with the term 'inspired by.' After all, "archmage" puts an image of an iconic, powerful arcanist in your head, and Intelligence has a strong arcane feel to it thanks to the wizard. So I suppose you can say that it comes directly from the game's mechanics itself.
On the other hand, I feel Pathfinder still carries a lot of 3.5's baggage on what each Ability Score should be able to do, and I guess I was hoping that Mythic would challenge that somewhat considering that one of Jason's comments was that Mythic allowed you to, "break the rules of the game." I would have liked to see the mental ability scores especially becoming more valuable to martial-type characters aside from "my Will save and Perception goes up!" or "I get more skill points and my Knowledges are a little bit better!"
I don't want to say that its impossible to make the mental ability scores do work for martials in Pathfinder (I play a Charisma-focused fighter and have built an Intelligence-focused archer), but your options are very, very limited in that regard and those builds do not typically come together until mid-game.
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Is it August 15th yet? Close enough!
Is it August 15th yet? Close enough!
So close!!
I'm one of those people who figured out that 6 paths links to 6 ability scores within minutes of learning about the paths. And the playtest document pretty much confirmed it to me. You can see how the champion is all about using Strength and physical power, how the Trickster is about mobility, agility and deception, the Guardian is focused on soaking up hurt. The only paths of "concern" (and I use the term very lightly) are the Archmage and Heirophant, where the details available in the playtest document solidly lock them to spellcasters. I'm hoping (and maybe it's a silly hope) that the full range of path abilities for those two allow non-casters to see them as viable choices, whether as a single path or a dual path option. The thought of a fighter Archmage tickles me pink, if it works. I'm also especially interested in the oft-hinted-at ability for mythic characters to grant spells.
At the end of the day, though, I'm thrilled by how Mythic Adventures is looking, and can't wait for when the PDF arrives on my subscription list (as a Brit I have a little wait for the print copy to land on my doorstep).
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@Chemlak:
I definitely like flexibility in choosing path options for the PC's, but I'm not likely to swallow the pill of the Fighter going down the Archmage Path. Thematically it makes no sense to me that he/she would opt for that; at the same time, I couldn't see a Wizard wanting to go down the Champion or Guardian Paths either.
I know you qualified your concern with the term lightly so it's not a deal breaker for you if the rules don't lean towards such an option. It's the first few words under the Archmage description that says 'Masters of Arcane Magic' which indicates to me that only the Sorcerer and Wizard classes are meant for it.
Did the date change for the release. My subscription changed to the August 23, was the 8th.
Shipping should start on the 12th, however they aren't guaranteeing that you order will ship until the 23rd.
@Norgrim (and anyone else even remotely interested in reading my ramblings). Your point is well taken, and I have every expectation that (looking at Core only) the Archmage suits the Wizard, Sorcerer and (possibly, most likely as a dual path with Marshal) the Bard, and the other classes won't even consider it. I'm just hoping to be surprised.
When play testing it, my players went for different paths all the way down the line (party of Fighter, Paladin, Rogue, Bard and Wizard), only the Bard dual-pathed (and went Marshal/Guardian, interestingly), and it was (and still is - we're still playing the campaign) truly fantastic. The full rules can only enhance what we've experienced so far, as it's letting us undertake truly epic (apologies for the use of that word) adventures.
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Honestly it isn't a matter of what classes fit each Mythic Path, it's a matter of what path you want to take your character down.
Champions are good with classes that want to hit things with pointy stabby things, so your full BAB classes but also your Rogues/Ninja that focus more on stabby then conniving or who dual path.
Archmage is good for ANYONE that casts arcane spells. So yes Wizards, Sorcerer, and Witches, but also Bards, Magi, and Summoners who might Duel Path into Trickster or Marshall (Summoners and Bards) or Champion (Magus) or Guardian (Summoners and Magus). Some uncertainty when it comes to Alchemist due to its wonky mechanics.
Guardian is good for anyone that wants DR/EPIC or other survival mechanics. Damage absorption and such. Really a good Duel Path all around.
Hierophant is good for ANYONE that casts divine spells. So yes Clerics and Oracles, but it can be a good main or duel path for an Inquisitor or a good duel path for a Paladin/Antipaladin.
Trickster lacked focus in the Playtest but it's supposed to be the go-to for Rogues, Ninjas, and maybe Bards. Anyone, really, who focuses on deception. Hopefully the version in the actual book will be a bit more exciting then the playtest version.
As to the Marshal. Anyone who has a huge focus on leadership and people would likely be a Marshall. The main go to would be a Bard but Cavaliers and Paladins who lead troops and try to be personable would find this path agreeable. Essentially this path is for those who like to support their allies and friends, tacticians, strategists, and demagogues. People with Leadership or Eidolons and Animal Companions might find this to be a good Main or Duel Path as is their wont.
Just to give an example of how flexible this system is, let's take the Iconic Paladin Seelah and the Iconic Aasimar who is a paladin of Ragathiel. Seelah was shown to be the Iconic Guardian in the playtest document which fits her story as she became a paladin to protect people, to defend the weak and such, when another...
This what I like most about what I've seen from the system during the playtest. The idea of truly fleshing out your character based on story rather than mechanic optimization, which I'm sure can be done. That'll be great news to at least one person in my gaming group. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out when the book is released.
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@Norgrim (and anyone else even remotely interested in reading my ramblings). Your point is well taken, and I have every expectation that (looking at Core only) the Archmage suits the Wizard, Sorcerer and (possibly, most likely as a dual path with Marshal) the Bard, and the other classes won't even consider it. I'm just hoping to be surprised.
When play testing it, my players went for different paths all the way down the line (party of Fighter, Paladin, Rogue, Bard and Wizard), only the Bard dual-pathed (and went Marshal/Guardian, interestingly), and it was (and still is - we're still playing the campaign) truly fantastic. The full rules can only enhance what we've experienced so far, as it's letting us undertake truly epic (apologies for the use of that word) adventures.
Like you, I want folks to be able to do whatever they feel they want to, lol, and I admit I completely spaced out on the Witch class for my last post. Once we get the book in hand, it will be easier to tell which path(s) can work with someone's character concept.
Actually
** spoiler omitted **
Of course, by the time you do that, you'll be softened enough for her to finish you off herself.
Grandmother is truly an awesome piece of work.
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Still can't find a refeence to thesize of this book. At the price point listed I'm assuming same size as the "ultimate" books. Not sure how they will do justice to such a huge variety of new content and concepts. I hope the adventure doesn't take up too much of the book, this will be lost crunch pages for me.
It's a 256-page book.
Says the PDF is available August 15th. My subscription is saying it won't be shipped to now until September 20th. What's up with that? Has the book been delayed?
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Says the PDF is available August 15th. My subscription is saying it won't be shipped to now until September 20th. What's up with that? Has the book been delayed?
Given I've just got my "shipping in the next week or so" e-mail and Mythic was on it, I doubt it's been delayed. Never mind the problems a delay would cause for Paizo with Wrath of the Righteous and GenCon.
The combination of subscriptions, conventions, and making sure everybody gets our August releases at their FLGS means that we're deciding to err on the side of caution for shipping date estimates. Rest assured, our customer service, tech teams, and warehouse staff will all be working hard to make sure everybody gets their awesome in a timely manner. :)
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Forgive me if this has been asked and answered already, but in a skim of the five pages, I didn't see it, so here goes: how will Mythic Adventures affect a campaign run using Ultimate Campaign? Some of the spells described in the blurb for this book would have far reaching effects on an Ultimate Campaign campaign setting, as just one example.
Thanks in advance for the answer(s). :)
Forgive me if this has been asked and answered already, but in a skim of the five pages, I didn't see it, so here goes: how will Mythic Adventures affect a campaign run using Ultimate Campaign? Some of the spells described in the blurb for this book would have far reaching effects on an Ultimate Campaign campaign setting, as just one example.
Thanks in advance for the answer(s). :)
Honestly? It would probably enhance it, especially if you're using things like the Kingdom Building rules.
The main reason for this is that Ultimate Campaign is all about enhancing the story of your campaign, and Mythic Adventures is oozing with the story-driven goodness of the myths of old. The design intent, according to the developers, is to allow you to play characters like Hercules or Perseus or any other character who was the subject of many myths and stories with abilities somewhat beyond that of mere mortals.
As an aside, I had some friends talking about what characters from real world stories would be considered mythic. Its a lot easier when actually start looking at old-world legends, for one, but the most humorous example that we all agreed on was Johnny Appleseed.
You need to be pretty darn mythic in order to plant every single apple tree in the entire continental US, after all!
Forgive me if this has been asked and answered already, but in a skim of the five pages, I didn't see it, so here goes: how will Mythic Adventures affect a campaign run using Ultimate Campaign? Some of the spells described in the blurb for this book would have far reaching effects on an Ultimate Campaign campaign setting, as just one example.
Thanks in advance for the answer(s). :)
Honestly? It would probably enhance it, especially if you're using things like the Kingdom Building rules.
The main reason for this is that Ultimate Campaign is all about enhancing the story of your campaign, and Mythic Adventures is oozing with the story-driven goodness of the myths of old. The design intent, according to the developers, is to allow you to play characters like Hercules or Perseus or any other character who was the subject of many myths and stories with abilities somewhat beyond that of mere mortals.
As an aside, I had some friends talking about what characters from real world stories would be considered mythic. Its a lot easier when actually start looking at old-world legends, for one, but the most humorous example that we all agreed on was Johnny Appleseed.
You need to be pretty darn mythic in order to plant every single apple tree in the entire continental US, after all!
It seems to me that almost every American folk hero could be done as a mythic hero. Johnny Appleseed as a mythic druid, John Henry (and Paul Bunyan and Joe Magarac and so many more) as a mythic fighter/barbarian, Pecos Bill as a mythc gunslinger...
Or of course you could do some of them as mythic experts and commoners*, though that might be difficult.
* -- Doesn't this cover most of the mythic peasant trickster heroes of Europe, like Till Eulenspiegel?
** spoiler omitted **
No offense, but the majority of the material you quoted is not at all related to her mythic abilities. Her senses (arcane sight, darkvision, see invisibility), regeneration, damage reduction, and immunities are all spelled out in special abilities outside of her mythic stuff.
Her contingency is not mythic, nor is her forceful presence or hut familiar. All of this is stilled out in her block.
In any case, some conclusions one can infer from Baba Yaga's stats about the final state of the rules.
-Mythic still provides a total of +10 to ability scores, split as you see fit. In Baba Yaga's case they all seem to have gone into intelligence.
-There are a limited number of mythic feats - Baba Yaga took a number of regular feats instead of mythic ones.
-Amazing initiative likely retains its playtest update form, providing less than half the benefit it once did.
-Mythic uses per day is likely 3 + x2 tier.
-There are some new class specific mythic path abilities (mythic hexes for example).
-The archmage capstone remains largely unchanged - still providing SR against arcane spells.
-Mythic provides no caster level bonuses.
-Mythic tier 10 still provides a generic immorality ability.
So, for those of you with the hardcover, any notable goodies stand out?
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So, for those of you with the hardcover, any notable goodies stand out?
The book hasn't shipped yet. Most of us subscribers got our "shipping eminent" notice.
Give it a week. The spoilers will flood this meager thread!
Hardcovers haven't shipped yet. Gotta wait because of GenCon
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the first ship notices will be going out on Monday; that's the day to go fishing :)
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To be honest I'm kind of suprised how little has been revealed about Mythic up to this point. I admit it is coming up to Gencon and everything but I seem to recall there having been a lot more previews for similair products by this point in previous years (By similair product I mean whichever Hardback book is coming ot for Gencon at the time.)
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On the other hand, I feel Pathfinder still carries a lot of 3.5's baggage on what each Ability Score should be able to do, and I guess I was hoping that Mythic would challenge that somewhat considering that one of Jason's comments was that Mythic allowed you to, "break the rules of the game." I would have liked to see the mental ability scores especially becoming more valuable to martial-type characters aside from "my Will save and Perception goes up!" or "I get more skill points and my Knowledges are a little bit better!"I don't want to say that its impossible to make the mental ability scores do work for martials in Pathfinder (I play a Charisma-focused fighter and have built an Intelligence-focused archer), but your options are very, very limited in that regard and those builds do not typically come together until mid-game.
We do so want and need a meaningful Mythic path for the Intelligence-based Fighter.
To be honest I'm kind of suprised how little has been revealed about Mythic up to this point. I admit it is coming up to Gencon and everything but I seem to recall there having been a lot more previews for similair products by this point in previous years (By similair product I mean whichever Hardback book is coming ot for Gencon at the time.)
Did you see the playtest?
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To be honest I'm kind of suprised how little has been revealed about Mythic up to this point. I admit it is coming up to Gencon and everything but I seem to recall there having been a lot more previews for similair products by this point in previous years (By similair product I mean whichever Hardback book is coming ot for Gencon at the time.)Did you see the playtest?
Yes but other Gencon releases have had playtests with much more previews than this.
Will we be given a way to calculate the Challenge Rating of Mythic Player Characters (or Mythic NPC's)?
Will we be given a way to calculate the Challenge Rating of Mythic Player Characters (or Mythic NPC's)?
2 Tiers = +1 CR
PC class levels (aka the Core Classes) have a CR equal to the number of PC class levels –1. For example, a 5th Level Fighter has a CR of 4.
NPC class levels (aka Expert, Warrior, etc.) have a CR equal to the number of NPC class levels –2. For example, a 2nd level Warrior has a CR of ½.
If the character's wealth is equivalent to a PC's for the level, then add +1 to the character's CR.
That means if your PCs are appropriately equipped and have all of their levels in PC classes, their CR equals their class level.
This means that a properly equipped PC has a CR equal to its class level + ½ its Mythic Tier.
No inherent bonuses from Wish, since those always (that I can recall) get a reference somewhere in the stat block. So that's 48 INT total rather than 46. Granted, she could have spent some of her level bonuses elsewhere or started with a 16 base (or put her human racial benefit somewhere else), and I'm looking at INT in a vacuum here (which I probably shouldn't do). But for such a dedicated spellcaster, I'd expect lots of INT-maxing. She could (should?) have a higher INT than she's got. And for somebody with access to either an absurd amount of wondrous items + artifacts, the Wish spell (or Mythic Wish), or both, she should really have a +5 inherent bonus in at least her primary spellcasting score.
I suspect she started with a 16. Buying all the way to an 18 is almost never worth what you have to tank other places - and such is especially true for an iconic character with many high stats.
Nice cover. However, why it does look like Valeros has decided to kill the thing from the inside?
And is it the 15th yet?
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It seems to me that almost every American folk hero could be done as a mythic hero. Johnny Appleseed as a mythic druid, John Henry (and Paul Bunyan and Joe Magarac and so many more) as a mythic fighter/barbarian, Pecos Bill as a mythc gunslinger...
In fact, some friends of mine ran an adventure using the mythic rules at last year's Owlcon where 4 pantheons sent avatars of themselves (translation "mid-level mythic characters") into a newly discovered realm and fought over who got to be the gods of the new world. The four pantheons were the Greeks, Norse, Egyptian and American. I can't remember all of the "American Gods" but I do recall Johnny Appleseed (Druid), Paul Bunyan (ranger), George Washington (paladin), John Henry (fighter) and Annie Oakley (Gunslinger).