Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Mythic Adventures (OGL)

There's not going to be an update for Mythical Monsters Revisited because its title refers to "creatures of myth," whereas the mythic rules refer to "heroes worth of myths."

Sean,

However, I think the first few paragraphs of Chapter 6 in Mythic Adventures refutes the explanation you give. Giving the monsters in Mythical Monsters Revisited mythic ranks (by updating the stats in the PDF) is completely within the spirit of Mythic Adventures.

Also, doing that would help reinforce the Mythic brand name recognition in your product line.
Just a suggestion. Love your work Sean.
John

Uh, I'm just saying that just because Mythical Monsters Revisited has "mythic" in the title (sort of) doesn't mean it should necessarily automatically include Mythic Adventures-style stats and abilities for the monsters in it. You can of course add those on your own.

I think it's worth pointing out that Mythical Monsters Revisited was published years before Paizo settled on the term "mythic" as it is currently used in the Mythic Adventures/Realms/Origins products.

The Archmage 1st Tier ability of Speedy Summons says You must be at least 3rd tier to select this ability. Why is it in the first tier ability section then?

The Archmage 1st Tier ability of Speedy Summons says You must be at least 3rd tier to select this ability. Why is it in the first tier ability section then?

Because Jason Bulmahn is actually a Cultist of Hastur, and that misprint is actually the precursor to the infectious idea that will allow the King in Yellow to spread across the world, uniting the minds of every pathetic human as one within the halls of Carcosa ....

A mythic-bane weapon gains its bonuses against any creature with the mythic subtype. You don't have to choose a creature type (such as dragons) or subtype (such as goblins or evil outsiders)... it's programmed for creatures with the mythic subtype.

So a +1 mythic-bane undead-bane longbow is

+2 and +2d6 damage vs. undead,
+2 and +2d6 damage vs. creatures with the mythic subtype, and
+4 and +4d6 damage vs. undead with the mythic subtype

Mr. Reynolds,

Sorry for bringing this up after you've likely considered the issue resolved, but you haven't specified how much higher the bonus given by the Mythic Bane special quality is. Also, is the extra damage mentioned in the special quality's description the same +2d6 of the non-mythic Bane quality, or is it talking about something else on top of that? Again, my apologies for bringing up something many people likely consider resolved, but this issue is likely to cause a discussion in my group if not figured out beforehand and my group only has limited game time at infrequent scheduling so I like to have an answer for them to avoid that discussion and save time. Especially since I plan on throwing them into the Worldwound sometime soon.

Sean, one of my players would like to know if it is possible to choose Extra Path Ability feat more than once? The feat description doesn't say anything about this.

Sean, one of my players would like to know if it is possible to choose Extra Path Ability feat more than once? The feat description doesn't say anything about this.

If you could, it would say, "Special: This feat can be selected multiple times."

If you look at the non-Mythic "Extra" feats, you'll see that all of the ones that can be selected multiple times have this special entry. Extra Channel, for example, does not.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

A mythic-bane weapon gains its bonuses against any creature with the mythic subtype. You don't have to choose a creature type (such as dragons) or subtype (such as goblins or evil outsiders)... it's programmed for creatures with the mythic subtype.

So a +1 mythic-bane undead-bane longbow is

+2 and +2d6 damage vs. undead,
+2 and +2d6 damage vs. creatures with the mythic subtype, and
+4 and +4d6 damage vs. undead with the mythic subtype

Mr. Reynolds,

Sorry for bringing this up after you've likely considered the issue resolved, but you haven't specified how much higher the bonus given by the Mythic Bane special quality is. Also, is the extra damage mentioned in the special quality's description the same +2d6 of the non-mythic Bane quality, or is it talking about something else on top of that? Again, my apologies for bringing up something many people likely consider resolved, but this issue is likely to cause a discussion in my group if not figured out beforehand and my group only has limited game time at infrequent scheduling so I like to have an answer for them to avoid that discussion and save time. Especially since I plan on throwing them into the Worldwound sometime soon.

It's exactly the same as normal Bane, but only applies to creatures with the mythic subtype, exactly the same as undead bane ony applies to creatures of the Undead type.

Asgetrion wrote:

Sean, one of my players would like to know if it is possible to choose Extra Path Ability feat more than once? The feat description doesn't say anything about this.

If you could, it would say, "Special: This feat can be selected multiple times."

If you look at the non-Mythic "Extra" feats, you'll see that all of the ones that can be selected multiple times have this special entry. Extra Channel, for example, does not.

You're right; they all do have that entry. I was kind of leaning towards that conclusion myself, but I wasn't exactly sure. Thanks! :)

I might have a unique example here and if you could help me out that would be greatly help out.
Our GM picked our first tier ability for us and some of us were wondering if we could re-train that ability and the rules for doing so?
Thanks
MDC

I might have a unique example here and if you could help me out that would be greatly help out.

Our GM picked our first tier ability for us and some of us were wondering if we could re-train that ability and the rules for doing so?
Thanks
MDC

Being that your GM picked it out for you... I would say this is something you might want to take up with that individual. As it sounds like they have some house rules in mind.

Mark Carlson 255 wrote:

I might have a unique example here and if you could help me out that would be greatly help out.

Our GM picked our first tier ability for us and some of us were wondering if we could re-train that ability and the rules for doing so?
Thanks
MDC

Being that your GM picked it out for you... I would say this is something you might want to take up with that individual. As it sounds like they have some house rules in mind.

I agree with Deanoth. If your GM picked your ability for you, probably for storyline reasons, then even if retraining could be applied to Mythic abilities (which is unclear) it wouldn't matter because your GM trumps every rule printed in every book ever, especially where storyline is involved.

And Mythic Adventures is nothing if not storyline involved.

The GM picked it for us as sort of a punishment and I asked him if I could ask the question here.
But I agree I always recommend people to ask their GM first before asking on boards as often there are house rules involved.
MDC

Thanks
Deanoth and Alexander Augunas foe the comments.
MDC

The GM picked it for us as sort of a punishment and I asked him if I could ask the question here.

But I agree I always recommend people to ask their GM first before asking on boards as often there are house rules involved.
MDC

Thanks
Deanoth and Alexander Augunas foe the comments.
MDC

Looking at the retraining section again and then the mythic feat entry I would say both by RAW and RAI that if retraining is allowed in the game then you can retrain mythic feats.

Mythic feat description-

Only characters with mythic tiers or creatures with mythic ranks can take these feats. If a creature becomes non-mythic, it no longer gains the benefit of these feats, but it doesn’t lose them permanently. If the creature becomes mythic again, it regains the use of all the mythic feats it once had.

Many mythic feats enhance non-mythic feats with the same name. When a creature has a mythic version of a feat, that feat is denoted with a superscript “M” in the feat line of its stat block. Other superscript combinations refer to the books cited on page 7.

If it looks like a feat, acts like a feat, and quacks like a feat it is a feat (and thus not a special exception to retraining).

I am a bit curious what mythic feat was selected for you 'as a sort of punishment'. Was divine intervention involved or some sort of encompassing outside agency (besides DM fiat)?

Grue;
Thanks for the reply. It was not a Mythic Feat that he selected it was a Mythic Tier Power as well as our Mythic Path.
Back Story: We fought a big battle near Skyfall were a huge (x50) intelligent bio-power supply/world life drainer. After we did a lot of damage; of course it exploded. The group had to make at Fort save of 35 to avoid dying, 1/2 of the party did and 1/2 of the party did not.
The 1/2 that did make the save got to pick their path and mythic tier powers and the 1/2 that did not did not get to pick their mythic tiers and their first mythic tier power (ability) but we all did get to pick our mythic feat.

Just so you know I am playing a Dex based Magus/Rogue/Aldori Swordsman. (yes it is a bit crazy but that is how he developed organically and was what the party needed at the time).
The GM at first gave me the Champion tier ability that deals with Overrun, Burst Through. To which I said that makes not sense for my PC who has never used Overrun and has no intention of doing so. So the tier path ability he gave me was Punishing Blow, after I asked for Mythic Armor Training or Mythic Weapon Training.
For my mythic feat I took Additional Path Archmage with the path ability of Mage Strike which makes a lot of sense with the PC.

So there is the whole story and back to my question; can you retrain Mythic Path abilities? If so how long and how much $.
I am of the opinion that they cannot be retrained as Mythic Path abilities are intrinsic to your PC where as Mythic Feats can be retrained just like normal feats can be.
Thanks
MDC

So there is the whole story and back to my question; can you retrain Mythic Path abilities? If so how long and how much $.
I am of the opinion that they cannot be retrained as Mythic Path abilities are intrinsic to your PC where as Mythic Feats can be retrained just like normal feats can be.
Thanks
MDC

Sorry had mythic feat on the brain when I skimmed down the thread;-).

Same thing applies. If retraining is allowed in the campaign, RAW and RAI support allowing the retraining of a mythic tier ability.

From retraining description-

If you are unsatisfied with a feat, skill, archetype, or class ability you chose, you may spend time in intense training to trade the old ability for a new one.

Considering it allows a pc to even change their class and ability score increases (or even work to boost your hit points up to the maximum possibility), I would say that unless specifically barred from doing so by RAW, by RAI retraining allows you to alter any PC build choice.

Looking over the sfx fluff of what a mythic path\tier is vs a class\level (pg 11 "...a mythic path, which is much like an additional class."). Additionally, pg 10-11 and pg 120 under mythic ascension and awakening respectively the choice of the origin is 'determined by the GM' but the choice of path and abilities are made by "you" (Once you gain mythic power, you select a mythic path...). Looking at Mythic Realms (and mythic origins) the fonts of power allow you to take abilities that can only be gained at that particular font but do not restrict your choice to only the power that particular place offers (pg 9 Mythic Realms "Mythic characters who claim power at the Doorway of the Red Stair can select the following path ability."). Just to cover the bases here on origin and font of power

To be honest, if you failed your save and died in the explosion (to be resurrected latter), at my table I would have ruled that you did not have a 'moment of ascension' (you didn't assimilate the power it destroyed you). By the same token I feel it was a mistake to use a save or die blast to serve as the font in the first place... an explosion like one at the climax of Rise of the Runelords (a healing release of energy) would have better served (and not forced a storywise nonproductive save or suck ascension option).

Anyway, the primary difference between class and path is the means of gaining them (experience vs mythic trails) but otherwise except specifically excepted on a RAI basis should be treated "...like an additional class."

That being said, retraining a tier ability could be problematic-

Many choices you make about your class features can be retrained. It takes 5 days to retrain one class feature. Training requires spending time with a character of your class whose class level is at least 1 higher than yours and who has the class feature you want.

I wouldn't despair however about finding a tier two champion or whatever. Considering your PCs are of a power\level that half of whom can make a dc 35 fort save you should be able to stack up a knowledge check or even a diplomacy (gather information) check to hit high end DCs (in that 40 to 50 range and be able to scrape together some cash to do so to get those +10 skill competencies and other skill boosting spells\items like a luck or morale bonus). Or even a particular divination spell to locate a potential trainer. You could find research and call a particular mythic outer planar critter (and use a planar ally\binding spell to pay it for the task).

If all else fails, costs and the rules for not having a trainer (and costs in general)-

Unless stated otherwise, retraining costs gp equal to 10 × your level × the number of days required to retrain. This is normally paid in full at the start of the retraining period, but the GM might allow you to divide these payments over multiple days. At the GM's discretion, this training cost could be up to 50% higher or lower, depending on situational factors within the settlement—availability of trainers, local economy, cost of materials, and so on.

Some retraining options require you to work with a trainer. If no suitable trainer is available, the GM might allow you to retrain yourself by spending twice the normal time. Even if you train yourself, you must still pay the cost for training (though you don't double the cost as you do the time). Any option that requires a trainer also requires some kind of training facility for that activity.

Grue,
Thanks for the ruling and I will forward it on.
As to the save the GM was giving out RP tokens that could be used to add 1 to any roll and he told us to save them as something big was coming up. The group did but some of us rolled better, got more tokens as well as had special abilities that helped them out a lot more than others. No big deal. But it did really penalize me as he instated a rule going backward that took away some of my special abilities that I had since level 1. So it was a triple penalty, do not get to pick path, or path ability and lose (4 in my case) an ability.

I think we have another Champion in the group as well as an Archmage so I will see what they have and hopefully do some retraining when?if we get the time.

Thanks a lot.

Next question that I think I know the answer to. What is the stacking order of feats and abilities in relation to one another. For example if I have a feat at 1st level that gets nullified at 13th level by a Mythic Tier ability, but other things have a pre-requisite for that feat; can I retrain it and not lose the feat chain? (in simple terms do the abilities you gain from being Mythic come before any other abilities, or do you have to keep track of when (what level) you gained your mythic tier for reference?

Thanks
MDC

Grue,
Well I just talked to him and he said the info has to be from one of the authors, do you happen to be one of them?
If not do you know how I can get in touch with one of them for a ruling?
Thanks
MDC

Grue,

Well I just talked to him and he said the info has to be from one of the authors, do you happen to be one of them?
If not do you know how I can get in touch with one of them for a ruling?
Thanks
MDC

No.

It looks like Sean Reynolds has fielded a few question on Mythic Adventures but nothing specific on retraining and I haven't found if any of the writing team has put their 2 cp input on the boards. However James Jacobs (paizo's creative director) has mentioned it...

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=741?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Qu estions-Here#37026

Albatoonoe wrote:

What's your favorite monk weapon?

Would you allow retraining of mythic stuff?

What's your favorite "random chance, crazy things happen" item (like the rod of wonder)?

Sai.

Yes, but I've allowed retraining/rebuilding of PCs for decades, so that's not a big deal for me.

The rod of wonder!

Now, this book looks made to in my bookbag should we start with the Wrath of the Righteous AP, right? Can someone comment on the relations there? Is it "recommended", "neccessary" or just "a slightly useful asset"?

Now, this book looks made to in my bookbag should we start with the Wrath of the Righteous AP, right? Can someone comment on the relations there? Is it "recommended", "neccessary" or just "a slightly useful asset"?

Wrath of the Righteous is our attempt to show how a complete Mythic campaign can be built—using it to run a mythic game is the whole point. But it can also serve as an example of how to build a mythic campaign of your own.

In any event, yes, Mythic Adventures is pretty much required to run Wrath of the Righteous. Even if you're running it as a non-mythic game, you as the GM need to be familiar with the rules so that you know what you're doing when you down-convert the mythic elements to non-mythic stuff.

Good to know. Thank you. Kinda makes me want to pick that AP up even more ;)

Mythic Adventures pp 119-123 does a good job of outlining the hero's journey. For those interested, here is another take with quotes from Joseph Campbell:

Word doc from websterschools.org

I've searched this thread and the forum at large and found only divided opinions (and not many of them as I'm guessing not a lot of people are playing Mythic prepared spellcasters at any given time).

Perfect Preparation (Archmage Mythic Ability):

Does the caster still have to learn new spells? Pay to scribe them into their brain?

- or -

Does this grant the prepared arcane caster full access to all arcane spells much like a cleric?

Opinions welcome, official word even better!

Thanks,
-AK

I've searched this thread and the forum at large and found only divided opinions (and not many of them as I'm guessing not a lot of people are playing Mythic prepared spellcasters at any given time).

Perfect Preparation (Archmage Mythic Ability):

Does the caster still have to learn new spells? Pay to scribe them into their brain?

- or -

Does this grant the prepared arcane caster full access to all arcane spells much like a cleric?

Opinions welcome, official word even better!

Thanks,
-AK

My opinion: If it meant for you to gain access to all arcane spells, I think it would say so explicitly. Since it doesn't, I'm fairly certain Option B is incorrect.

As for needing to scribe spells onto your brain, I don't think you'd need to do that either.

The way I read it, there are three steps to making a spell available for preparation.
1) Figure out what spell it is. This is a Spellcraft check, or you can use read magic.
2) Understand the spell. This is a second Spellcraft check. If you fail, you can try again a week later.
3) Copy the spell into your book. This takes time and money.

Perfect Preparation obviates the need for the spellbook, so you can skip step three, but step one and two are still necessary. The archmage should still keep a list of spells he's learned via this process (or from leveling), and that's the list he can prepare from.

Now that we approach the end of the wrath AP and head into mummy territory I have just 1 question. Are we going to see future support for the mythic side of the game? I hope it doesn't just stop at the 3-4 books we have so far.

I've tried to find out on my own, but does anyone know which artist did the lovely piece on page 132? The aztec-seeming woman with the bloody hands and snake tattoo.
I love it and would really like to see what else the same artist has produced.

Yeah that is very good!

Just curious, has there been any word on when there will be some more FAQs or Erratas for this book? There are an awfuly large number of unanswered questions and issues with some of the mythic powers, and I was hoping that a few more of these would be addressed before my group finished Wrath of the Righteous. :)

I have a question about the Mythic Rakshasa's Telepathic Dodge ability. The insight bonus, +5, is that based on a particular attribute (e.g., CHA)? Or is that just a flat, one-time bonus that just comes out of it being "mythic"? I'm trying to advance a Rakshasa and need some advice.

Rules questions for Paizo products are better addressed here.

Daijin wrote:

Did not see this posted so here it is:

6th 3rd — Force of will
yet says 7th:
Force of Will (Ex): At 7th tier, you can exert your will to
force events to unfold as you would like. As an immediate
action, you can expend one use of mythic power to reroll a
d20 roll you just made, or force any non-mythic creature
to reroll a d20 roll it just made. You can use this ability
after the results are revealed. Whoever rerolls a roll must
take the result of the second roll, even if it is lower.
Which is correct?

The table is correct, you get it at 6th tier.

(Oddly enough, we caught that just before it went to print, so the printed version says 6th in both places, but we didn't inform the tech team to update the PDF. I'm doing that right now...)

I happened to be checking the PRD, this morning, and discovered that this error still exists there.

As an aside, what is the best place to report things like this that are specific to the PRD?

As an aside, what is the best place to report things like this that are specific to the PRD?

I believe that the PMG asked us to post them http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mui4?The-New-PRD

-- david

TOS+ v5.117 released with increased support for Mythic!

TOS+, aka The Only Sheet+, the powerful Character Management tool, has been updated to increase support for Mythic Characters! You can use the new Mythic worksheet to select your Mythic path, set your Mythic Tier, as well as track your surge ability, Legendary Item (if you are lucky enough to have one!) and select your Mythic Abilities.

Note that the free DEMO version of TOS+ (called TOS CORE) does not showcase this new worksheet at this time.

http://TheOnlySheet.com

I was just looking at "Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth" and noticed it was created for characters of 15th level with 7 mythic tiers. Is there a convenient way to convert tiers to levels for 3.5, such as 1 tier equals a level or 1.5 tiers equals a level or something?

I was just looking at "Herald of the Ivory Labyrinth" and noticed it was created for characters of 15th level with 7 mythic tiers. Is there a convenient way to convert tiers to levels for 3.5, such as 1 tier equals a level or 1.5 tiers equals a level or something?

Nope, you’re Level 15 with 7 mythic tiers. Tiers translate to CR / levels at a rate of 1 + 1 per two tiers thereafter, so the PCs are supposed to be the equivalent of 19th Level PCs in that adventure. The rules for tiers to APL appear within Mythic Adventures.

Thanks. I found the rule in the SRD:

"To adjust a character’s level, add half his tier (minimum 1) to his total character level. So a 10th-level/5th-tier character is effectively a 12th-level character for challenge and reward purposes, and a 20th-level/10th-tier character is effectively a 25th-level character for those purposes.

"To adjust a foe’s CR, add half its tier or rank (minimum 1) to its CR. So a 2nd-rank minotaur is effectively a CR 6 monster, while a 6th-tier champion pit fiend would be CR 23. For mythic monsters, this calculation has already been made."

So it's level or CR + 1/2 tier, with a minimum of +1. The minotaur example doesn't seem to follow the rule, as CR 4 + 1/2(2) = 5. The pit fiend though does seem to follow the rule, as 20 + 1/2(6) does = 23.

Is there a difference between a mythic tier and a mythic rank?

Mythic Ranks are used by monsters, and are explicitly separate from tiers. Unlike Player Characters - and some important NPCs - Mythic Ranks generally don't change. So, just as an example, if a Demon Lord granted mythic power to some leading general, that general probably couldn't advance or improve it. Mythic Ranks are usually equal to 1/2 CR, but that's a common guideline, not a hard rule. (Low CR creatures can have many mythic ranks, and high CR creatures can have few mythic ranks.) Creatures generally won't have both ranks and tiers.

Does a rank grant different benefits than a tier, or are they just different names for the same thing depending on who has it?

Short Answer: Different Benefits.

Long Answer: They're, and I quote, "similar, but not exactly the same." Creatures with Mythic ranks get the Mythic subtype (which provides a variety of bonuses, including natural armor, bonus hit points, spell resistance modification, etc). They also get a certain amount of feats and ability score bonuses, but they don't pick a mythic path. Instead, they get [Mythic Rank + 1] mythic abilities, some or all of which may be entirely unique to that creature.

So... in the broad sense they're similar, but when you get down to the details they're fairly distinct.

Okay, thanks, Rednal. The details of ranks must be discussed in a part of the SRD I haven't read yet.

It's in the Mythic Monsters section. ^^ Hope that helps!

Thanks, Rednal! I'm stiii working my way through the mythic feats, and will check out monsters after. :-)

You're quite welcome. ^^ Incidentally, if you'd like more mythic content, the Mythic Mania series is an outstanding addition for mythic games. The three books (Feats/Class Abilities, Spells, and Monsters) are available separately or together (as a bundle here), as well as freely available online here. If you're playing with Mythic at all, I highly recommend adding this content - if nothing else, the added monsters give more stuff to throw at players. XD

Got to agree with Rednal, the Mythic Mania books are fantastic (worth every penny I spent getting PDF, hardcopy, and Hero Lab files, and I wasn’t able to support the Kickstarter).

On to one of your questions: looks like the Mythic Minotaur has been calculated either incorrectly or (possibly) differently to the standard formula. And here I thought I’d checked them all years ago...

Yes, by the formula it should be CR 5 (base CR 4, plus half of it Mythic rank of 2), but it might be (I haven’t actually checked) that the numbers alter enough that it bumps an extra CR on Table 1-1 (that’s the monster creation table in the Bestiary, if you’re not intimately familiar with the reference).

Considering that some of us have been playing Mythic games for years and using Mythic monsters from this book, the Mythic Monster Manual and the Mythic Monsters series from Legendary Games and this is the first time I know of that anyone’s questioned the Mythic Minotaur... don’t sweat it. The formula works, but I’ve used the Minotaur, and it’s fine at CR 6, in my experience.

Hello everyone! This is now available for purchase from Fantasy Grounds or on Steam. Sync your FG account first to get it a discount equivalent to the PDF Price ($9.99)

Pathfinder RPG - Mythic Adventures
Publisher: Paizo Inc.
System: Pathfinder RPG and D&D 3.5/ OGL
Type: Accessory
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