Wraith235's page

we had a very odd set of ciurcumstances tonight in the Iron cages

PC Casts Baleful polymorph on creature.... 2 fails on Saves now Creature thinks its a toad

then PC's proceed to take their newfound Toad out of the cages

what happens to the gear on said creature after it dusts (gear is merged into the body)

Ive been theorycrafting on this archtype for an AP in the future

Paladin 2
Monk 1 (Im partial to Sohei for the always act in a suprise round)
Swashbuckler 1
Split the rest between Devoted Muse and Warrior poet/ Ward Speaker Samurai

and for PFS I think they will require it to be an elven archetype (just like Spire defender was)

I think Id have to make it an elf with the alternate racial trait for Katana(from the same book) since my GM doesn't allow Aasimars

using the glaive is cool and maybe I could go with it there is just a lot of nuances I'm having issues with particularly around slashing grace as well as the fact that its 4 freaking feats to pull it off
and Ive not really put it to the grinder for building yet

20 point Id probably go 14 Dex, Con, Cha, Wis so that no stats are tanked .... all of this is without racial bonuses
you have good base saves (+12, +9, +10) at 5th level
base potential of +8 to AC from stats alone

you'd likely have to wear light armor until Samurai 2 because of the Samurai level restriction on your cha bonus to AC (monk and Samurai AC Bonuses = 4 at this point)

The problem we have is Mike Brock's ruling. I, for one, would be cautious about going against a Campaign Leader's ruling until it is changed by a new Campaign Leader.

exactly ... tho recently I was told that rulings made by Sean K. Reynolds are no longer Valid along with several other individuals

I have yet to search for validity in that statment

also Mikes Ruling was based on the CRB Text ... not UE text

4. No on Celestial Armor unless it’s made of gold or silver. (Or whatever it lists in the description).

As has been pointed out this particular one is in question

if any of them need a clarification ... its this one
Personally its not something I would do simply because of just how many shades of grey this is .... but others might be brave enough to try

I'm not entirely happy with the change mostly from the 'don't want to rebuild' POV.

Did it for UC Rogue.. and though it came out better.. I HATED the 'does this work to my build' or 'THIS works maybe?'

Now I'm trying to find a two weapon fighting build with expertise for the 'big fights' that I can use.

Swashbuckler noticeably does NOT work. I might be the only person I know who uses CE as a rogue/fighter type on a regular basis but there are times when you NEED the AC in light armor.

But since I play Akim like once a blue moon (on 1/2 xp) because I want to be the suave know it all rogue who is good with two blades and able to find traps and locks like no other..

I have time to find something that works for me.

Im in this boat with 4 PC's .. and 2 of them are 14+

I have a Ninja, Monk, Ranger build that I am weighing the option Full UC Rogue or dumping the Monk and adding 4 Ninja Levels

I have a Whip Magus that Im at a loss on what to do with

I have an inquisitor of Achaekek who's story I love that I have no clue on

and finally a staff magus / Card Caster that may just end up just dropping the lore warden archtype

Celestial Armor had a rewording between CRB and Ultimate equipment that snuck through a lot of peoples windows

I brought it up in another thread

CELESTIAL ARMOR
Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th
Slot armor; Price 22,400 gp; Weight 20 lbs.
DESCRIPTION

This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.

CONSTRUCTION

Requirements Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be good; Cost 11,350 gp

vs

CELESTIAL ARMOR
Price 22,400 gp; Aura faint transmutation [good]; CL 5th; Weight 20 lbs.
This +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS

Cost 11,350 gp
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, fly, creator must be good

so while I personally will still ascribe to Mike Brocks Ruling if you read the UE Version there appears to be some wiggle room ... would be nice to have a clarification on this in light of these revelations

that's my gut ... but the rules on this seem very open and with almost no forethought

also the fact that you only record the card on the Hero Chronicle ... not on the one for the specific part .. and the fact that as an AP it could be Months between Sanctioned parts of the Path ... having to wait till you apply credit to record information seems very illogical

Hate doing this ... but Bump ... anyone have any clue ?

so Im looking at this and trying to wrap my head around it

Relavent text from the Additional rules is as follows

The first time a character participates in a
session granting a Curse of the Crimson Throne Chronicle
sheet, also give them a copy of this bonus sheet. Each
volume opens up new ways to use the sheet and grants the
PC one or more Harrow Points using the Divining With A
Harrow Deck instructions that appear on pages 416–417.

so I am playing Campaign mode ... and intend to apply all chronicles to 1 PC

Part 1 is a 1-2
Part 2 is a 6-8

so my question is how does Hero of the harrow Work with Saving the Chronicle

the PC which is getting this Stack is Currently level 2 (after applying part 1) so I know that I have the 1 Harrow point

we've completed part 2 and I have recorded the Harrow points on the chronicle sheet as specified in the Rules Document but when do I have access to the Points from part 2 ... when I apply the chronicle ? or now

Samsaran

Holy****

whats the current boon in Rotation ?

Soooo.. the Old Lore Warden is still kinda/sorta/maybe legal till otherwise stated? I’m asking cause I don’t see anything in the AR or CC YET, and folks are wondering if they need to rebuild or wait.

your answer is here The Changing Lore Warden for that question

1st Animate dead is not Permanent its Instantaneous ... and there are some important distinctions

School necromancy [evil]; Level antipaladin 3, cleric/oracle 3, shaman 3, sorcerer/wizard 4; Domain death 3; Subdomain souls 3

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (an onyx gem worth at least 25 gp per Hit Die of the undead)

EFFECT

Range touch
Targets one or more corpses touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

the Differences are

Permanent
The energy remains as long as the effect does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic.

PFS Rules that only 4 Spells can go between scenarios
Continual Flame, Masterwork Transmutation, Secret Chest, Secret Page

hard and fast rule is ---

PFS Says that "All spells and effects end at the end of an
adventure with the following exceptions" and Animate dead is NOT on that list

Animated dead "The remain animated until destroyed"

so if you take those 2 pieces ...
Animate dead ends ... therefore its destroyed ...it doesnt matter how ... it just is

and it doesnt matter how .... those are the rules

Add a level of lorewarden to a character you'd rather rebuild anyways...

and this is an excellent reason why the fact that this is taking so long is a bad thing ... the abusive Ideas and loopholes not only start to flow ... but begin being discussed in public

and as soon as these things become public it puts a sour taste in the mouths of the people whom are making the decisions

I have played a trip based magus with a whip and the supporting feats and I can tell you that once you start hitting Huge + on a regular basis ... that it breaks

Grapple will always be good because there is no size limit on grappling

Sunder builds will always be good because while yes thy focus on breaking weapons and armor ... they focus just as much if not a little more on raw damage

Disarm builds are fair ... but they fall apart if the opponents aren't wielding manufactured weapons

Dirty trick can be useful but isn't overpowered on its own as you can clear the condition with a move or a standard action depending on the feats , there's even a dedicated fighter archetype for this - Cad

I have seen the steal Maneuver do some amazing things but to say its situational is being generous

Trip, reposition, bullrush and Drag all suffer from the same issue - you cant do these if the target is more than 1 size category larger and breaking this cap is extremely difficult as there are only a handful of ways I can think of to crack the huge barrier and they consist of the following:

Ki Throw (Max Colossal at 4 ki points)
Enlarge person (huge max)
Monstrous physique II, III, and IV (gargantuan at Mag/wiz/sorc 5 spell)

there might be a few more but when I did my research these were the only ways I found

in the end the potentially OP CM Builds are grapple and Sunder and I would even argue that grapple from a fighter is not really that OP ... Tetori monk is a different story ... but we have a fighter archetype banned ... not monk

going to have to look into aquatic adventures ... I know that the current rules for Swim checks and failures have a lot of holes in them

Not to take away from the jist of your argument, but some things mentioned here do not originate with the campaign or the coordinators. The early access into prestige classes for example was something that originated with the design team. In the spirit of displaying a better argument for folks out there like myself could you go through those issues and separate those originating with the design team and those originating with the organised play team? Also, if I may make a petty request: could you not make video game comparisons? I feel like the tabletop industry is a very different beast from the video game industry, and when you use examples mixing the two I take your argument less seriously. And I feel like there's a point you are making there that deserves to be understood.

you actually have highlighted the argument ... the majority of things I mentioned was in fact from the design team's hands with only the delays in AR and the lack of transparency on how and why things are being done the way they are falling at PFS Coordinators feet

and yes ... the table top industry is a VERY Different beast from the MMO Market that is true ... but the reason I used them as an example is that there are simply So many more instances of where MMO's have gone down this path to self ruination and Consumer alienation than I can come up with for table tops
Ask your friends how many of them trust Companies that have pulled this many times in the past and gauge the results

Sure I suppose I could have used 4th ed. as the example that drove its player base away but debating using a vehicle I truly care nothing about (D&D 4th ed. +) ends up not conveying the same feeling and I really could care less about 4th ed or even 5th ed for that matter

Saw 80 New posts and thought we had gotten a ruling

a lot of what is being Glazed over is the track record of the design team over the last few years - and yes many of us are ignoring the fact of what they have done to add to this issue

ARG alternate racial favored class bonus Nerf
Jingasa and much of the Ultimate Equipment Errata
Early Access to prestige classes for Plane touched characters
Ultimate Magic Archetype Nerfs
Ultimate Combat Archtype Nerfs
Adventurers Guide Nerfs
Statments that their softcover lines dont get as much editing and review love as the hardbacks

the list goes on and on .. its not just 1 thing that has undermined the credibility of the Company ... its everything .... its watching the bridge get made from lego's in Still motion photography ...
most people are going to see 1 thing that affects them directly and go "Well %$^& that Im done" few of us are going to see all the issues that have caused we the Consumers to become disillusioned with the Company

Heck I would be welling to bet Dollars to Donuts thats how the company sees it as well

Yes this is a living campaign
Yes we expect changes
yes inevitably some of the softcover books we bought will be made worthless after the fact - hopefully Months and not years
No I do not believe there is a catchall answer because in the end we are only human
Yes I understand that the thing right now is to do blanket balance passes

but really Heavy handed change one after another after another is Not the way to Keep people playing your game
Look at the MMO Market ... games that undergo this usually pay the price on their bottom line ... granted we aren't talking SWG:NGE Level changes here ... but they are starting to add up

all in all I think what the community is asking for is transparency and Speed ...
and ya its only been a month since the fan got hit with the turd cannon
but we've been having repeat instances of 3+ Month delays on content being cleared vs/ not cleared .. which is another nail of mistrust being stuck into the wall

once you put everything onto the scale it starts weighing heavily in favor of the "Why should I bother" ... now yes MOST of that is on the pathfinder design team ....
but I bet that noone will argue that anything that the PFS Team can do to ease some of the growing tensions surrounding these issues would be Welcome

should the Community have a say in what rules changes become legal vs not legal .... I dont know ... Implementation of such a system would be difficult to do - even the most simple one like having a yes / no / don't care straw poll added to the PFS Forums based on each book would be simply too Cumbersome to implement

Maybe an unimportant distinction, but it's there for now.

it really is an important distinction because unless there is rebuilds or Grandfathering then those 4 PC's get retired

They ARE playable, since nothing has changed. I entirely understand not WANTING to play them until the question is settled however.

every Lore warden lost a feat = unplayable

----- edit .... ok Apparently I missed the "Both versions are legal for play .... appologies

last I knew if you run hero lab prints with full descriptions you could use "My downloads page" of your paizo.com account if everything was digital

but we are WAAAAAAY Off topic
and I hate to be the pushy one here but we are now a Month out waiting for this ruling and there are Many PC's (I myself have 4) which are currently unplayable waiting for a ruling ... do we have any timetable on this ?

Im sorry but did a ruling come down ? last I knew we were waiting on John and co. to make a ruling based on the AG Changes

Better Link

thanks for Cleaning that up Nefreet

further more from what I have seen Bruno is one of the foremost experts on grappling on the forum Community ...chances are .. if its come up ... hes dealt with it

Ian Johnstone wrote:

@BigNorseWolf:

- I agree Weapon Spec Grapple is weird, but it exists

No.

You have interpolated it's existence from other rules.

The ability to do that rests on a systems ability to be known, sensible, and consistent. It also requires a good logician. In both of these senses, extrapolating from knowns to unknowns is like a bridge: you want as few steps as possible or it's going to collapse.

Straight from the PRD....or use the OGC Link for Direct Link without Searching

Weapon Specialization (Combat)

You are skilled at dealing damage with one weapon. Choose one type of weapon (including unarmed strike or grapple) for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You deal extra damage when using this weapon.

Prerequisites: Proficiency with selected weapon, Weapon Focus with selected weapon, fighter level 4th.

Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on all damage rolls you make using the selected weapon.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new type of weapon.

so yes .. you can Weapon Spec Grapple

What Changed: Lore Warden Archetype
What's the problem: Loss of Second Level Bonus Feat Resulting in 2 Seeker level character and several other lower level characters that became invalid post level 2 due to feat dependencies. Change in Skill points. and change in class skills list
What I'd like to see: Grandfather existing Lore Wardens to Field Guide Version. (Character must have been played as a level 2 Lore Warden before GenCon 2017.) or full rebuilds available to all Lore Wardens

I personally have several characters that dipped into lore warden (2 levels) however the loss of a feat in those instances does Irreparable harm to all of those characters

I support Grandfathering ... or at the very least Full Rebuilds of the affected PC's

check amazon ... when I thought mine had gotten lost I went ant looked there and they had a couple

but yes Delux Harrow Deck lists as unavailable on paizo

the normal one lists as out of print Pathfinder Chronicles: Harrow Deck

lol thats hilarious

as well as voting in the poll that was linked.

what and where is said poll ?

Id like a ruling on retraning as it relates to Alternate classes going into the parent class (Ninja -> Unchained Rogue) for example

I just want to be able to retrain Ninja into Rogue without paying the Prestige twice in order to do it

If it’s leather and no names material it’s cows.

Sorry James but I gotta troll you here

your just racist against Cows ... #Buffaloleathermatters #Pigleathermatters

ok Im done now .... sorry I giggled

How much is Celestial Armor made of Steel?

wanted to save this for another thread but meh whatever

we all know Mike Brock said there is no path to upgrade to Celestial Armor back in 2012 ... which I still Ascribe to
however in 2014 when UE was released .. the description of it changed to

This +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.

vs

This bright silver or gold +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence. It has a maximum Dexterity bonus of +8, an armor check penalty of –2, and an arcane spell failure chance of 15%. It is considered light armor and allows the wearer to use fly on command (as the spell) once per day.

now while Im not saying its legit, Right or should override what Mike said in 2012 but a discussion can happen on it once again because the "Silvery Gold" description was removed

the issue the Necro is having is that "upgrading isn't the same thing as Creating or Visa Versa"

I spent several hours last night Trying to correct him that the Process of creating a Magic Item IS a series of Upgrades

Base Item is a MW <Insert Item Here> THEN you apply the enchantment
- or in other words -
you upgrade the base Item Into the magic Item

as soon as the Base Item is of a Material that the Named Item is not it is no longer an option to create

the end result was "its Too Risky to sell a GM on anyways"

I gave up

there was a silver lining to the conversation tho but thats a discussion for another thread

I agree that there seems to be incomplete information but there are defiantly some things to consider

I'm kinda surprised that they didn't go with 1st come 1st serve but like has been stated there may have been some extenuating circumstances

but on the flip side 8 players and a GM is very doable ... you break into tables of 3 and 4 with 2 GM's and a a pregen at one table - I know that when I coordinated with and ended up with 8 players and a GM this is what we did and this is something that the VC in attendance should have thought of

but on that note it is very possible that none of those players wanted to GM - or noone had anything prepped (even though there are always evergreens)

again without complete information its hard to make a judgment

Wraith235 wrote:

the problem is that the nerfs and table variations are hurting PFS as a whole

of my group of 7 players I am now the only one that still even regards PFS as fun

DM Beckett put it perfectly with regards to his wife

we get invested in our characters and then have them nerfed out from under us

I realize that 6 players is a relatively small number of people compared to the grand scheme of things ... but look at all the contention on the forums as a whole ... this thread alone is 529 posts long ... others crack into the thousands

BNW also stated it well ... "if the day ends in a Y someone will argue about it"

there are people that I know that refuse to come onto the forums because its so toxic ... all of these things hurt the health of PFS as we know it ....
its got to stop somewhere

I lost interest in PFS a few years ago, mostly because of what I perceived to be an emphasis on new mechanics which did nothing to improve the experience. YMMV.

I would (and have) argued that the frustration you are describing is unavoidable given (1) the rapid and continuous publication of new mechanics, and (2) the need for organized play to have some semblance of balance. But I appreciate that does little to address your specific concerns. I guess my question to you would be this: When -- not if -- an unbalancing option is published, how would you prefer it be handled in PFS? Just leaving it alone will result in trivializing large amounts of content (leading to player boredom), unacceptable spread of character power (leading to player boredom), etc.

It seems to me that nerfing is the best -- albeit far from ideal -- solution, at least given the pace at which new mechanics are added.

Most of what I am stating is a Observation of whats going on from being in PFSOP for 5 years now

but if I had a say ... things need to be banned at onset not allowed to settle for Months (or in the case of the Ioun stone or Lore Warden years) before getting hit ... however the biggest issue is that this would hit their bottom line as PFS is one of the biggest drivers of sales - weve seen that with the recent paths of the rightous book which IIRC Very little to None of it was legal in PFS causing sales of that particular book to be less than its counterparts

the problem is that the nerfs and table variations are hurting PFS as a whole

of my group of 7 players I am now the only one that still even regards PFS as fun

DM Beckett put it perfectly with regards to his wife

we get invested in our characters and then have them nerfed out from under us

I realize that 6 players is a relatively small number of people compared to the grand scheme of things ... but look at all the contention on the forums as a whole ... this thread alone is 529 posts long ... others crack into the thousands

BNW also stated it well ... "if the day ends in a Y someone will argue about it"

there are people that I know that refuse to come onto the forums because its so toxic ... all of these things hurt the health of PFS as we know it ....
its got to stop somewhere

Pathfinder and Specifically PFS have always been very heavy handed when it comes to "Must buy Items"

here are a few that come from the top of my head (Pre nerf obviously)

Jingasa
Bracers of Falcons Aim for Archers
Quickrunners shirt
and now the clear spindle ioun stone

just based on the track record Im not suprised to se this nerf
I AM however Suprised to see that this has sat for nearly 8 years before getting hit with the bat

also the retraining of Ninja into Rogue is a mess as well since its done on a lvl by lvl basis and you cannot have levels of both Ninja and rogue

thats something else that has never been resolved

math looks right aside from the Onyx cost with reguards to desecrate .... tho there are some mechanical concerns

the amount of Onyx isn't Set by the spell its set by the HD your animating

Scrolls are always assumed to be bought at Min CL ... which you've taken into account ...
Im just not sure how you would price a scroll with a variable Material Cost. at absolute Minimum it would only have 25gp of Onyx tied to it

I dunno this is above my pay grade, tho Id expect a lot of GM's (if not Most) would go by the minimum's in play

also Desecrate doesn't Reduce the cost of the Onyx it only Doubles the Limit of Undead you can animate ... 20 HD still = 500gp of Onyx

Society field guide was a $20 Book - which most people have had for 3 years
Adventurers Guide is $40

I am personally against a $40 "Tax" to be able to Continue playing a character that is Legal at the time of this Posting and has been for 3 years... but Will not be legal in 1-3 Months Time and on top of that Removes the entire reason for (at least me) taking the Archtype (for me it was the Skill point bonus and not loosing the 2nd level bonus feat - I could care less about expertise)

this Marketing Strategy is getting Dangerously Close to an EA Style Cash Grab or Micro-transaction for my Liking

Notice Im not arguing the Clear Spindle ... it was a 100% Necessary Item to buy ... Im just a little annoyed that it took 7 years for the nerf hammer to come down ... that's a Relatively absurd amount of time to let something go before Nerfing it ...

Im not 100% but I think it may be the Longest period of time for an Item to be Nerfed ...
previous Recordholder was the Cayden Cailene Rapier IIRC ?

Lots of people went 2 level Dip into Lore Warden for Totally different reasons ....
1 was the Skill bonus
2 they didn't loose their Fighter lvl 2 Bonus Feat I could care less about expretise

TBH Im Really hoping that old style Lore wardens are grandfathered in ... the Retroactive changes because of this are gonna be steep Especially for high level PC's

so after looking at the PC ... with everything active Im at a 21/21/21/16/16/11 (+1 more with about 12k spent) at 11th level ... thinking the extra -2/-2 might very well be too much

Personally am trying to decide weather a +3 Holy is Better than a +5

I do have clustered Shots ..... really curious about the math

gems and other things are considered Trade goods and sell for full value .... Carying 700gp in Diamonds, Diamond Dust, Onyx (most common spell components) is a lot lighter than 700 in coins

As for the Ioun torch, if you lock up the item description it states it is a dull gray stone with Continual Flame cast on it. It is Caster Level 12 in the item write up.

Given the rules for PFS that spells are cast from the lowest level spell caster able to do so the Ioun Touch would act as a Level 2 spell with Caster Level 12. It can cancel Darkness but not Deeper Darkness, and has a caster level 12 if the target of a Dispel..

EverBurning Torch as for the description given I believe would be Spell level 2, Caster Level 3 from a wizard.

minimum level create an Ioun Stone is CL 12

Aura faint universal; CL 12th

Slot none; Price: 25 gp; Weight —.

DESCRIPTION
These are ioun stones that have been burned out or otherwise rendered all but powerless. They retain the ability to float and orbit, and are useful as the target of spells such as continual flame, daylight, and silence, allowing you to keep your hands free. They may be any shape (cabochon, disk, ellipsoid, and so on).

Cracked: This stone has no powers. Price: 25 gp.

Flawed: This stone has no powers. Price: 25 gp.

See Inferior Ioun Stones for details on cracked and flawed variant stones.

caster level of Continual flame is 3 (Minimum) .. vs Dispel magic you would check vs the CL of the Spell not the Ioun stone... and dispelling the Ioun Stone would only make it stop floating for 1d4 Rounds

Wraith235 wrote:

Michael Clarke wrote:

2. Is there any official spell level for the Continual Flame? Do you assume it is cast by a wizard, similar to potions, scrolls and wands, or do you specify when you buy it as one or the other? Does the price change if you want a higher level version?

Official level is 2 and buying a higher level is not an option

however IF you adventure with a PC that has the Highten Feat you can get a Higher level Version

What's your source for that assertion?

IIRC in the Guide to organized play anything bought is bought at Minimum caster level unless it shows up on a chronicle sheet at a higher caster level
e.g. Wand of Magic missile CL 5 (8 charges) 600gp is an example of one that shows up on a season 8 chronicle

Can somebody please point me to an official answer to the following questions? Or at least point out RAW? Basically, I'm not interested in any opinions, just facts.

These questions are all about Ioun Torches and Everburning torches in PFS play. Both Ioun and Everburning torches are described as being items with a Continual Flame cast on them.

1. Do the items count against the limit of one Continual Flame per character? i.e. you can't have both of these items in your possession. Or, are they considered manufactured items, and therefore don't count against that limit? Or is the answer different for each item?

I would assume so but the Everburning torch is an Item in the Core book so maybe it plays differently

2. Is there any official spell level for the Continual Flame? Do you assume it is cast by a wizard, similar to potions, scrolls and wands, or do you specify when you buy it as one or the other? Does the price change if you want a higher level version?

Official level is 2 and buying a higher level is not an option

3. Is the spell level different between the two items? Does the increased cost of the Everburning Torch indicate a higher level of spell, and therefore a higher caster level

by the way it reads its a standard Continual flame and the cost doesnt add up to higher level

TBH Im not sure why an Everburning Torch is more expensive than an Ioun Torch asidse from the fact that the Ioun Torch is in Seeker of Secrets IIRC

having now run it .. these mechanics make Mass battles Look Normal

a bit upthred I asked for some assistance in interpreting the Rules - and I have to say that when noone wants to assist with these rules and instead debate the merits and flaws of adhocing the rules as they are presented .. thats sort of indicative of a REAL problem

- note Im not complaining .. after seeing this in action I wouldn't want to touch them either ... in fact I wonder who signed off on this going live .. this is hands down the worst scenario I have ever run and so bad that I would honestly suggest removing this from circulation

not only are the rules in the scenario fuzzy ...but they dont fit into the one on one Verbal duel Rules OR the Team Duel Rules

were supposed to build debate as if it were a 1 on 1 ... but PC's can be targeted ? so is this really a 1 on 1 ... or is this a 1 on 4-6 where each PC assigns their own skills to a worksheet but share a determination pool .... scenario doesn't say or even hint at an answer

this is the only scenario I have felt physically angry at prepping .. and that is not a good thing

as far as everyone not running it as written ...
unfortunately that is absolutely against PFS Rules - yes I've had an accusation levied against me in the past for JUST this sort of thing (not following the Rules because it was more Fun)...

so yes ... PFS does Log these Actions and keeps note of them if they catch wind about it

As Such my only statement is - Dont Do it ... but with these rules as presented and how much of a charlie foxtrot they are especially with all the changes to the base Rules ... I cannot Blame the ones who are changing things for trying to clean it up ...

its an impossible situation and your Damned if you do Damned if you dont

this is so confusing

so for Determination ...
its the average of all 3 Mental stats + HD

is this for 1 PC or all PC's?
is it added up or averaged

Skills - is this made for each PC or as a group ?

and what effect does the fact that they are supposed to loose have on determination
what about the fact that the other group is trying to loose