Toughness - pg. 67


Skills & Feats


How does the Toughness feat work in Pathfinder?

The feat says: "Benefit: You gain +3 hit points plus 1 hit point per Hit Die. Every time you gain a level or gain Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit points."

Consider a 3rd level elven wizard taking the feat. How many hit points does he get?

3 - because you gain three when taking the feat, or
4 - because he just gained a level, and therefore gets 3+1 hp, or
6 - because his hit die is 3 from his character level?

I'd say 3 but I might be mistaken.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Samuli wrote:

How does the Toughness feat work in Pathfinder?

The feat says: "Benefit: You gain +3 hit points plus 1 hit point per Hit Die. Every time you gain a level or gain Hit Dice, you gain +1 hit points."

Consider a 3rd level elven wizard taking the feat. How many hit points does he get?

3 - because you gain three when taking the feat, or
4 - because he just gained a level, and therefore gets 3+1 hp, or
6 - because his hit die is 3 from his character level?

I'd say 3 but I might be mistaken.

6. +3 from taking the feat, and another +3 for having three Hit Die


Lazaro wrote:
6. +3 from taking the feat, and another +3 for having three Hit Die

I tried to find if gaining a level includes gaining a hit die but couldn't. I was wondering why the feat says "+3 hit points plus 1 hit point per Hit Die" and later refers to "gain a level or gain Hit Dice". Either that is badly worded, or it's meant to differentiate gaining a level and gaining a hit die. How does one gain hit dice?

IIRC, 3.0 Toughness used to give 3 in the example I used.

Dark Archive

Samuli wrote:
Lazaro wrote:
6. +3 from taking the feat, and another +3 for having three Hit Die

I tried to find if gaining a level includes gaining a hit die but couldn't. I was wondering why the feat says "+3 hit points plus 1 hit point per Hit Die" and later refers to "gain a level or gain Hit Dice". Either that is badly worded, or it's meant to differentiate gaining a level and gaining a hit die. How does one gain hit dice?

IIRC, 3.0 Toughness used to give 3 in the example I used.

Monsters gain Hit Dice all the time. The question is, if it is possible to take toughness multiple time as it was in 3.5. In 3.5 toughness was quite a bad choice, but some monsters had taken it 8 times, in pathfinder it became a much more useful feats, but allowing it to stack might become a bit overwhelming.


Generally Characters advance by Level and monsters advance by Hit Die. The wording means that monsters with that feat gain +1hp if they gain a Hit Die. Therefore, I would agree that a 3rd level Wizard would gain 6hp (+3 for taking the feat, +3 for being 3rd level [+1 for each Level or Hit Die]) Upon reaching 4th level he would gain an additional +1hp from the feat.

Now if a dragon were used as an example, upon taking the feat it would gain +3hp for taking the feat and an additional +1hp for each Hit Die it has. If it were to be advanced from very young to young (All colors gain 3 Hit Die for this advancement in SRD) it would gain an additional +3hp (1 for each Hit Die gained). If said dragon were to then gain a level of wizard, it would gain an additional +1hp for gaining a level.

I would say that the feat can only be taken once, as it no longer specifically states that it can be taken multiple times (generally feats may only be taken once unless they specify otherwise). Pathfinder's toughness functions more like a combination of SRD Toughness and the Improved Toughness feat from Complete Warrior, Monster Manual III, and Libris Mortis. Improved Toughness was the feat everyone with access to those books took instead of Toughness to boost HP as it was 1hp per Hit Die, but could only be taken once.


Freesword wrote:
Therefore, I would agree that a 3rd level Wizard would gain 6hp (+3 for taking the feat, +3 for being 3rd level [+1 for each Level or Hit Die])

I guess you misunderstood my question. The feat specifically states "You gain +3 hit points plus 1 hit point per Hit Die". Do class levels grant hit dice?

PHB glossary says about hit dice: "a measure of relative power that is synonymous with character level for the sake of spells, magic items, and magical effects that affect a certain number of Hit Dice of creatures". Unfortunately, this doesn't answer the question.


Jadeite wrote:
The question is, if it is possible to take toughness multiple time as it was in 3.5.

No. 3.5 Toughness explicitly allowed taking the feat multiple times. PF Toughness is missing this text. You can't take Power Attack multiple times, either.


I see where the problem is now. 3.5 PHB p23 states that a character has the same number of Hit Dice as levels in the section on reading class descriptions. This section does not seem to be included in the SRD or in the Pathfinder Alpha document.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Samuli wrote:
Jadeite wrote:
The question is, if it is possible to take toughness multiple time as it was in 3.5.
No. 3.5 Toughness explicitly allowed taking the feat multiple times. PF Toughness is missing this text. You can't take Power Attack multiple times, either.

Yes. Each time you get a new dice of hit points, that's a hit dice. At the beginning of each class, in the summary it gives you their hit dice, so each level is a new hit dice.

Edit: Ninjaed


Freesword wrote:
3.5 PHB p23 states that a character has the same number of Hit Dice as levels in the section on reading class descriptions. This section does not seem to be included in the SRD or in the Pathfinder Alpha document.

Thank you. There it was. AFAIK, PHB p.23 isn't under OGL.

Sovereign Court

Toughness taken as many times as you'd like would be far too powerful.

At 20th level, it's 23 hit points per pick, and you can easily see casters who will outlast some of the more heartly classes provided they invest a few feats here.

Also, for the warrior-type who wants this feat many times - there's little you can do to kill it if he's got a healer aside from death effect.

Liberty's Edge

did anything actually get ruled on with this? Does a character who takes toughness at 1st level, get both the initial +3 and a +1 for having 1 HD or is it only a +3? that is the question....inquiring minds want to know ;)

Sovereign Court

I view it as a mix of the two feats "toughness" and "improved toughnes" so if taken at 1st level you get 4hp and gain 1hp for every level/HD after that.

That is my HO

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