Witness the God of War!

Friday, June 21, 2024

I’ve known Gorum longer than anyone else. Although he’s changed and developed in ways I never considered, he was created for my homebrew setting back in the very early 90s, as I was rounding out my campaign setting in preparation for a big campaign I was going to run for several friends in my college dorm.

He wasn’t the first, second, or third divinity I created for my setting (those honors go, in order, to Yamasoth, Treerazer, and Desna), but he was part of the larger group of two-dozen or so gods I invented once the world-building bug bit me. I wanted a deity in my setting who was someone like Crom, someone non-clerics like Conan could pray to or curse to before, during, and after a fight. Unlike Crom and Conan, though, I wanted this god of war to be fully armored and armed in iron and steel. And so the idea of a god who presents as an animated suit of armor was born into my setting.

When it came time to build Golarion, we were very pressed for time. We had to simultaneously close out the magazines and then jump right into producing our own RPG content without skipping a month, due to the realities of the subscription-based promises and methods Paizo had been built on. It’s very difficult to build an adventure in a world without proper nouns. You can make that up as you go, but that runs the risk of rushing an important job. So as I was put in charge of the Pathfinder Adventure Path line, I made the decision to draw from my then 15-year-old setting for much of that lore. Which included the deities.

We wanted to do 20 “core deities” from the start because it was a fun number to aim at (this being a d20 game), but also because that allowed us to create two different types of deities for each of the 9 alignments, with 2 left over to pad the numbers (one of those went to Neutral to create a “best choice” deity for druids, and one of those went to Lawful Good to create a “best choice” deity for paladins).

Gorum ended up making the jump from my homebrew at that stage into the public by being one of the two chaotic neutral deities chosen, and for the next 17 years, he would serve as Golarion’s god of war.

: Gorum lays waste to vast swathes of puny mortals with but a swing of his mighty blade

Illustration by Maichol Quinto


Roleplaying the Grim Reaper

When we decided it was time to shake things up in the Lost Omens setting, the death of a god made the most sense. We’d done this at the dawn of the campaign with the death of Aroden—even though his death took place a century earlier, it still was a huge part of our world’s lore. But killing off someone no one knows about is very different than killing off someone who some folks have known for 17 years (or in my case, closer to 34 years). We had a lot of discussions about which of the core 20 deities we wanted the metaphorical Grim Reaper to visit. We didn’t want to kill off an evil deity, since that would have less emotional impact, but we also didn’t want to take out a deity we had strong plans for in the future, or whose role in the setting was significantly load bearing.

In my homebrew in the early 2000s, I killed off Abadar as part of a plot where the world was slipping into entropy and the PCs had to step up to help prevent more gods from being killed, and he was thus my first nomination. But he’s also someone who’s a handy non-evil villain to have around, and beyond that, he had a role in the future in Starfinder. Other folks suggested other deities, but in the end, we all settled on Gorum. Here was a god who wasn’t evil, who was part of the core 20 but didn’t have a particularly strong role in the lore, didn’t represent a specific ancestry or character class, but who was still popular enough that his death wouldn’t feel hollow. It would still sting. It would still be noticeable. And it would absolutely change the setting—especially when we decided that the death of the god of war wasn’t going to make war go away, but instead let war run rampant.

llustration by Kendal Gates : Gorum in his full glory

llustration by Kendal Gates


Witness Him!

Unlike Aroden’s death, which was and will remain shrouded in mystery, we aren’t being coy about Gorum’s death. The specific methods by which he dies will be spelled out in print, and your PCs will be able to take part in multiple adventures impacted by the event—an event known as Godsrain, and which begins a period historians will refer to as the War of Immortals. We’ll have information about what your clerics of Gorum can do next, particularly in adventures where the event takes place after you’ve already potentially started playing clerics of Gorum. We hope the specific details of how and why will resonate with everyone in the same way they do with me and everyone on the editorial team at Paizo!

During PaizoCon last month, we revealed more details about where and when Gorum dies, as well as how you can read those details as a GM, how your PCs can take part in those details as they play out in the course of play, or how you can experience them in the form of fiction. Those who want light spoiler information about where you can find out more, read on. Those who want to be surprised about the event when it happens in your game—I’ve already said too much!

SPOILERS

Gorum’s death is described in detail in the upcoming standalone adventure, Prey for Death. Where that event takes place during the adventure, I won’t say more now, but GMs who read the adventure will find that information front and center. How much the players learn, and when that learning happens, depends on the choices they make during play, of course!

The Curtain Call Adventure Path will be starting in a world before these events take place, but by the end of that three-part, high-level campaign, Gorum will be dead. While the direct impact of this will be less than it was in Prey for Death, other developments rising from the event will be on full display. Again, the timing of where and when Godsrain falls during Curtain Call isn’t something we’ve revealed, but it will become obvious once the first volume (and its short summary of the campaign’s three chapters) is published.

After that, War of Immortals presents additional information about the rules involved with these events, Lost Omens Divine Mysteries spends some time exploring the way the gods of the setting are changing, and the novel Godsrain chronicles some in-world fiction involving some familiar iconic heroes as they experience certain developments caused by the death of Our Lord in Iron.

Illustration by Mark Tarrisse: mortals look to the sky and witness Gorum’s death

Illustration by Mark Tarrisse


After these, we’re not simply going to let the topic go, of course. The Godsrain may be over, but the War of Immortals is only beginning. And while we’ll soon reveal the exact event in which Gorum dies in print for you to read, there are other new mysteries that event sets up. Mysteries we have plans for. These events—Gorum’s death and other still-unrevealed-complications that death creates—will continue affecting the Lost Omens setting from this point forward, much in the same way that the re-introduction of the runelords in the very first Pathfinder Adventure Path continues to have ripple effects, the closing of the Worldwound allows for the exploration of new stories, and the secession of Ravounel sets up brand new narratives to experience. The War of Immortals is larger in scope and scale than all of those, though, make no mistake. You’ll see the aftermath of the Godsrain play out in the Triumph of the Tusk Adventure Path later this year, and it has some ripple effects that help kick things off in next year’s just-announced Spore War Adventure Path as well. Not every adventure will be focused on these events—the one after Spore War won’t, for example—but just as we’re still telling stories about runelords or the aftermath of the Worldwound or the fate of Ravounel, what goes down during the War of Immortals is here to stay.

Unlike Gorum.

But do not weep for him! Instead, maybe the next time your PC slays a dragon, defeats an evil warlord, or simply earns a new weapon or suit of armor, raise a sword in his memory.

James Jacobs
Pathfinder Creative Director of Narrative

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4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thank you James for bringing Our Lord in Iron into the world! Looking forward to the many planned adventures where we may stay iron-tongued and covered in blood, not rust.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Pour one out for the Lord in Iron.

Also, damn, I'd love to contribute to some of those APs!

Horizon Hunters

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Novel link is broken, should be https://paizo.com/products/btq02sx8?Pathfinder-Godsrain

Edit: actually all links are broken


3 people marked this as a favorite.

WITNESS HIM!!!

Horizon Hunters

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Blood not rust, big buddy. Blood not rust.

Grand Archive

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Samir Sardinha wrote:

Novel link is broken, should be Godsrain

Edit: actually all links are broken

Your link do work for me (linkified).

Radiant Oath

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Perpdepog wrote:
WITNESS HIM!!!

Forever bloody and iron!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ah. Thank you.

It is good to know the reason you chose the one you chose. We spend so long *speculating* on it, after all.


(Currently both the Prey for Death and Curtain Call links just take you back to the home page…)

Here is link for Prey for Death

And

Curtain Call: Stage Fright


I salute you, Gorum!

You were good son, real good. Maybe even the best.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I appreciate this article a lot, but something stuck out -- aren't Starfinder and Pathfinder different continuities? I was fairly certain this was established a while back.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

19 people marked this as a favorite.
schnoodle wrote:
I appreciate this article a lot, but something stuck out -- aren't Starfinder and Pathfinder different continuities? I was fairly certain this was established a while back.

They're different enough so that Starfinder employees don't have to be Pathfinder employees, and vice versa, but at the same time we DO have a lot of shared lore between the two games. So when we CAN maintain that continuity between the campaign settings, we do.

And with this storyline, which is the BIGGEST world event we've done ever in Pathifnder, it was a friendly and collaborative element to work with the Starfinder team so that this story could potentially be one that adds to the lore... or at the very least, doesn't subtract from the lore by taking an established Starfinder deity and scrubbing them out.

Also... we wanted this event to stick. The god is dead, and if they come back to life, that's cheesy and a bait and switch. We don't want to do that, and had we chosen a deity who is still active in Starfinder, the perception would be that "some day, they'll come back" regardless of how much Gap-shenanigans we have out there.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

It's my understanding that "Starfinder is a different continuity" is mostly due to logistics, since you want to let the creators create without having to constantly check with the other team lest people get painted into corners. "Please tell us all major developments you have planned so we can avoid contradicting them" is kind of an impossible ask, after all.

But it's still *better* when something in Pathfinder sets up something in Starfinder, or something in Starfinder references something that happened in Pathfinder.

Like in Starfinder Iomedae has a cybernetic arm, so presumably she lost one somewhere along the way. If they wanted to explain how that happened in a Pathfinder story, that would be neat.


Thank you for this!


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

...That spoiler picture...

Spoiler:
...That's Achaekek, right? Like... there's no world in which that's not Achaekek.

Or am I going crazy?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
MaxAstro wrote:

...That spoiler picture...

** spoiler omitted **

You're not crazy, you're absolutely right! ... Or at least you're also right, regardless how crazy you are, which is the next best thing! It's even been confirmed, and the AP mentioned in the spoiler is themed after that god in particular! (or at least, if it wasn't that god personally, they're being framed very well)


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
schnoodle wrote:
I appreciate this article a lot, but something stuck out -- aren't Starfinder and Pathfinder different continuities? I was fairly certain this was established a while back.

They're different enough so that Starfinder employees don't have to be Pathfinder employees, and vice versa, but at the same time we DO have a lot of shared lore between the two games. So when we CAN maintain that continuity between the campaign settings, we do.

And with this storyline, which is the BIGGEST world event we've done ever in Pathifnder, it was a friendly and collaborative element to work with the Starfinder team so that this story could potentially be one that adds to the lore... or at the very least, doesn't subtract from the lore by taking an established Starfinder deity and scrubbing them out.

Also... we wanted this event to stick. The god is dead, and if they come back to life, that's cheesy and a bait and switch. We don't want to do that, and had we chosen a deity who is still active in Starfinder, the perception would be that "some day, they'll come back" regardless of how much Gap-shenanigans we have out there.

Thanks for the response, I see what you're saying. I do find it a bit confusing to be different-but-same, so to speak, but it does kind of open up the possibility of time-travel shenanigans that would now allow players to do a pathfinder2e AP into starfinder2e, which I appreciate a lot. Easier to do with a continuous, overarching story that doesn't revive gods for sure.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:

...That spoiler picture...

** spoiler omitted **

You're not crazy, you're absolutely right! ... Or at least you're also right, regardless how crazy you are, which is the next best thing! It's even been confirmed, and the AP mentioned in the spoiler is themed after that god in particular! (or at least, if it wasn't that god personally, they're being framed very well)

The Adventure Path in the spoiler is not themed after that god. The standalone adventure is. Just trying to manage expectations. ;)


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I will always raise a glass to the lord in Iron. Thank you for a god of war that was not some blatant rip off of Greek or Roman gods, but something new and who stood for those who only wished to hear the ring of steel, and to die in a good way one day. I look forward to seeing what this event brings to the world. (But hands off Pharasma!!!! She sticks around until the new universe comes around) Thanks for sharing your home brew world with the rest of us.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Gorum may be dead but the thing Szuriel did not count on was in war, HEROES RISE!


So long Gorum, you were my favorite warpriest deity and you will be missed. My wandering preachers spreading the good word of jolly combat are going to have spread a new dogma of revenge with Ragathiel.

Liberty's Edge

Knowing James, I am sure I will be amazed and satisfied by the tale of Gorum's death.

I think he will die fighting and it will be a good death.

And really, that is all Gorum or any of his worshippers would hope for.

Liberty's Edge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

And Gorum's spirit lives on.

As long as anyone will answer YES to the sacred question of "Will you fight ?", Gorum will be there.


I hope the big bastard at least goes down swinging.

Forward onto Death, Blood not Rust!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
James Jacobs wrote:
Sibelius Eos Owm wrote:
MaxAstro wrote:

...That spoiler picture...

** spoiler omitted **

You're not crazy, you're absolutely right! ... Or at least you're also right, regardless how crazy you are, which is the next best thing! It's even been confirmed, and the AP mentioned in the spoiler is themed after that god in particular! (or at least, if it wasn't that god personally, they're being framed very well)
The Adventure Path in the spoiler is not themed after that god. The standalone adventure is. Just trying to manage expectations. ;)

Ack! My habit of adding "path" no matter what type of adventure it is strikes again!


Just gonna keep Gorum “alive” by making characters who worship his memory. He’s not dead, he’s not a naughty boy he’s just very, very quiet these days. The contemplative, dead, blood god. In iron.


I always love reading the explanations people give for their decisions; and it's even better here, where I'd been involved with the discussions on "which god will die", so I know which questions were raised.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

well, Our Lord In Iron will at least go down swinging!

my main question is

:
Achaekek is an assassin. So, who hired him to kill the god of war?
He's also not supposed to be able to kill gods... I sense shenanigans


2 people marked this as a favorite.
VVKing wrote:

well, Our Lord In Iron will at least go down swinging!

my main question is ** spoiler omitted **

...wait, are we POSITIVE that this death is being correctly attributed? There's plenty of deities involved with "deception", after all.... Heck, it's also possible that the killer is who we think it is, but the killer didn't realize the VICTIM was who he actually is.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Jan Caltrop wrote:
VVKing wrote:

well, Our Lord In Iron will at least go down swinging!

my main question is ** spoiler omitted **

...wait, are we POSITIVE that this death is being correctly attributed? There's plenty of deities involved with "deception", after all.... Heck, it's also possible that the killer is who we think it is, but the killer didn't realize the VICTIM was who he actually is.

You can be positive. More details are coming soon in "Prey For Death." The PCs may not learn ALL of the details of the truth, but it's not something we're hiding from the GM... or from anyone who reads "Prey For Death."

Sovereign Court

2 people marked this as a favorite.
The topic quote wrote:
... didn’t represent a specific ancestry or character class

I may be wrong here, but isn't Gorum THE god of fighters and barbarians? Even if you somehow argue Cayden is a fighter god (Valeros worshiping him and such), Gorum is THE barbarian god, it's not even close.

Also, by the way...

Spoiler:
I heard Achaekek was literally made to be unable to kill gods. Is it something retconned, or is it going to change somehow?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

those images, especially the spoilered one...

Does it mean Deities can

Spoiler:
go Kaiju sized if they want or need to?

Grand Archive

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Souls At War wrote:

those images, especially the spoilered one...

Does it mean Deities can ** spoiler omitted **

Deities don't have set sizes. Their sizes is what they need it to be based on the situation. :3

(It was talked about a couple years ago. Most of the things surrounding deities are "narrative-dependant", so it's fluid, and change depending on the needs of the particular stories being told.)

Liberty's Edge

The image might also be a projection.

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

"Press [F] to pay respects"

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs, thank you for sharing the stories about Gorum's origins and ending. It was interesting to learn why Gorum was chosen to perish. (I had wanted Asmodeus - for various reasons including the most glaring example of power creep between game systems and editions - but I do realize that many players would not care as much as they would if Gorum perished.)

My first Pathfinder group, a Pathfinder Society table, included a player with a cleric of Gorum. So, my hope is that we will see more good stories involving Gorum in the years to come. Although Gorum will be gone, he will not be forgotten.

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

"Part of the journey is the end."

Part of war is dying. I think this choice is fitting in many ways.

After all...:
...how important is an assassin god if they never assassinate anyone?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
TriOmegaZero wrote:

"Part of the journey is the end."

Part of war is dying. I think this choice is fitting in many ways.

After all...:

...how important is an assassin god if they never assassinate anyone?

In the end(?)...:
The Pathfinderwiki article about Achaekek says that Achaekek is tasked with assassinating those who seek divinity. It also says that Achaekek is supposed to be incapable of assassinating anything with divinity above demigod status, but gives several indications that this prohibition may sometimes fail . . . .

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I bet the wiki still says drow live in the Darklands too! ;)

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.
UnArcaneElection wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:

"Part of the journey is the end."

Part of war is dying. I think this choice is fitting in many ways.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

My current conspiracy theory

Spoiler:
Something was trying to corrupt Gorum from inside and it was winning.

Gorum chose suicide by Achaekek to go down fighting rather than surrender to the corruption.

This allowed Achaekek to kill the god.

Before that last battle, Gorum sent his blade to a safe place. It does not appear in both pics we have of Gorum's death.

And now I can totally see Achaekek asking Gorum the sacred question before delivering the killing blow : "Will you fight ?"

And, for the final time, Gorum answers "Yes."


10 people marked this as a favorite.

I mean "Achaekek cannot kill gods" is a good reason not to write the books in an objective voice. It reads very differently if the reason we are told that is because this is something Achaekek's people want you to believe, or even Pharasma's, than if it's the "voice of god" telling you what is and what isn't.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Somewhere in the Forgotten Realms another suit of armour war-deity, Tempus, is maybe shaking his head over what happened to this upstart youngster from Golarion.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
WWHsmackdown wrote:
My wandering preachers spreading the good word of jolly combat are going to have spread a new dogma of revenge with Ragathiel.

I thought Ragathiel was more righteous vengence against the wicked and not revenge in general. Isn't the latter more Calistra's territory?


Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Somewhere in the Forgotten Realms another suit of armour war-deity, Tempus, is maybe shaking his head over what happened to this upstart youngster from Golarion.

Whatever killed Gorum could probably very well kill Tempus I'd wager.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean "Achaekek cannot kill gods" is a good reason not to write the books in an objective voice.

...but isn't Achaekek more of an divine instrument/construct of the God's wanting various things DEAD though? It probably make sense that Achaekek is loyal to the Gods (if they created Achaekek that is) and thus has sworn it's very existance to never kill one of them.

Though I'm honestly not sure if that applies to DEMIgods (aka Demon Lords, Archdevils, Horsemen of War, etc etc).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

There are debates about the origins of Achaekek, and "God of Assassins" isn't his first job. So I imagine we'll be learning more about the Mantis God in the coming few months.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Berselius wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
I mean "Achaekek cannot kill gods" is a good reason not to write the books in an objective voice.

...but isn't Achaekek more of an divine instrument/construct of the God's wanting various things DEAD though? It probably make sense that Achaekek is loyal to the Gods (if they created Achaekek that is) and thus has sworn it's very existance to never kill one of them.

Though I'm honestly not sure if that applies to DEMIgods (aka Demon Lords, Archdevils, Horsemen of War, etc etc).

My understanding of Achaekek's timeline goes something like this.

Achaekek is one of the OG eight deities created at the dawn of existence by Pharasma's ritual and he was some kind of cosmic judge.

Achaekek has an experience that drives him mad and turns him into the barely sapient God Of Monsters.

Lamashtu obtains godhood via the murder and theft of a deity's power.

A large collection of gods realizes this could lead to Open Season on all deities and needs to be prevented from happening again.

They subdue Achaekek and get to work on restoring his mind. But they also install a bunch of directives into his head to make him the perfect divine assassin and control him. Around the same time they create Grandmother Spider as a servant and implant a bunch of control directives into her as well.

Grandmother Spider proves to be much smarter than these gods intended or realized. She deeply resents having her free will restricted and sees Achaekek as her spiritual brother since he's a victim of it too. She's cunning enough to figure out loopholes in her directives and tricks those gods into freeing her and Achaekek ascending to godhood in the process.

The now sane and free Achaekek considers things and concludes that the chaos of rampant god murder really would undermine reality and takes on the directives he was given voluntarilly.

So killing deities is Anethema to Achaekek because he considers it important to reality's functioning to not do that. But the part where he was forced to do it without a choice is long gone. Still he's been known for resolutely sticking to his personal code for eons.

So whatever made him change his mind must be a pretty big deal. If he's not being impersonated or something that is.

Community and Social Media Specialist

5 people marked this as a favorite.

I love that the discussion has changed from 'Whodunnit' to 'Whydunnit'. Even if you won't be running Prey for Death, I'd highly suggest reading it for the story alone.


6 people marked this as a favorite.

RIP... no, wait, he'd hate that.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Starcatcher wrote:
RIP... no, wait, he'd hate that.

I believe the appropriate epitaph would be RIV.

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