Field Test #3: That Cantina Feel

Wednesday, January 3, 2024

Happy New Year! Welcome to the exciting reveal of our third Starfinder Second Edition Field Test.

It’s a new year and a new Field Test release! The Field Tests include early, behind-the-scenes previews of rules the Starfinder development team is playtesting internally in preparation for the Starfinder Playtest Rulebook release later this year. Our latest offering includes a preview of two ancestries appearing in the Playtest Rulebook, as chosen by community vote. We’re excited to announce the winners of that vote and the ancestries we’ll be featuring in today’s Field Test: the android and vesk!

Ancestries are the updated version of what were known as species (also called races in older products) in Starfinder First Edition. Ancestries are an important part of Starfinder’s “cantina feel,” a term referring to the sci-fi trope of a spaceport bar packed with all kinds of aliens. In this context, it means players get to create and play as alien characters, and every planet or space station in the setting is teeming with weird and wonderful sapient lifeforms that player characters might interact with. Our goal is to keep the cantina open, so to speak, while we update existing Starfinder ancestries to be compatible with the new edition. 

Starfinder ancestries might look familiar to those of you who play Pathfinder Second Edition. Starfinder First Edition players might notice the new ancestries are a bit of a departure from what you’re used to, but don’t panic! In Starfinder Second Edition, each ancestry entry includes more content than the small sidebar allotted to them in Starfinder First Edition.

In existing Starfinder books, you’ll often see a species boiled down to a list of statistics with a handful of abilities. Presenting species this way allowed the Starfinder team to introduce many playable options right away, but there was little players could do to define their character’s progression—via their species—beyond the initial selection. In some specific cases, a species was so numerically superior that they were the obvious “best” choices (we’re looking at you, SROs!). This was fantastic for certain players but didn’t always reward players interested in exploring different options. In the new edition of Starfinder, we want to create deeper meaning and context for ancestries that you’re going to play or feature in your campaigns. This means including more space for narrative lore related to each ancestry and information on how it fits into the setting, as well as progression-based selections to help further customize a character of that ancestry.

In addition to a set of starting adjustments and abilities, ancestries in Second Edition get access to ancestry feats. A character gains an ancestry feat at 1st level and then another at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th-level. Ancestry feats explore different paths within each ancestry and grant more powerful abilities as a character progresses—allowing you to customize your character beyond what was possible in Starfinder First Edition. The team’s been experimenting with some interesting new options, like expanding lashunta psychic powers or introducing a type of shirren that grows wings!

A humanoid android with purple lights and viney plants growing around them and on the staff they are holding

Illustration by Sophie Mendev


Today’s Field Test focuses on the constructed androids and the reptilian vesk. Androids and vesk are both staple ancestries in Starfinder, but each represents a very different part of the design spectrum. Androids already exist in Pathfinder Second Edition (see Pathfinder Lost Omens: Ancestry Guide), so the Starfinder team updated the ancestry to be compatible with the “ancient androids” who once walked lost Golarion while creating new options to represent the changes in culture and technology that separate the Starfinder setting from its distant past.

Meanwhile, vesk is an ancestry that’s never appeared in Pathfinder Second Edition, giving us a blank canvas to work with. Our intent was to keep the spirit of the First Edition vesk while exploring new build types, from movement-based shenanigans to different forms of natural melee attacks, and more.

The team is excited to see what you think of our initial foray into ancestry design for the new edition. We also strongly suggest you read the foreword in this document, which may reveal some important news related to what ancestries you can expect to see in the Starfinder Playtest Rulebook releasing this summer!

Stay tuned for our upcoming Paizo Live! where members of the Starfinder team will further discuss the Field Test, as well as give more hints about what we have planned for the new edition of Starfinder.

— The Starfinder Team

-Thurston Hillman, Managing Creative Director (Starfinder)
-Jenny Jarzabski, Senior Developer
-Dustin Knight, Developer
-Jessica Catalan, Starfinder Society Developer
-Mike Kimmel, Developer

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Tags: Starfinder Starfinder Playtest Starfinder Roleplaying Game Starfinder Second Edition
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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Wooo hooooo! Let’s go to the Cantina! Would have loved to have seen Barathu here but I get what’s popular. ;)

Love that art!

Liberty's Edge

I look forward to going over this today.

So, when might there be a chance for more Starfinder Second Edition playtest demos at conventions?


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Space Goblins available in Society when?


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Time to dig in!

Edit: Skittermanders will be in the full playtest, my body is sooo ready :D

Liberty's Edge

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Skittermanders will be in the Starfinder Playtest Rulebook!!!!


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Merry Veskmas, everyone!


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Android and Vesk, both looking pretty good. Even having all the PF Heritages for Android as one is a nice touch. Vesks I've no complaints. Looks great.

That said, was hoping that since Androids are being actually created in Starfinder timeline, was hoping to see an option for them to emulate non-human Ancestries, especially non-Medium ones.


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I'm still a little heartbroken to not get a peek at Lashuntas here... but this Android writeup had a giant grin on my face the whole time. It's so cute how one Heritage for them wraps up all of the PF2 options, and Networked is probably the coolest Heritage I've yet seen for any Ancestry!

Flexing that kind of more interesting, evocative design within a PF2 framework is super exciting. Can't wait to see the rest!

Paizo Employee Managing Creative Director (Starfinder)

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Herald of the Redeemer Queen wrote:
That said, was hoping that since Androids are being actually created in Starfinder timeline, was hoping to see an option for them to emulate non-human Ancestries, especially non-Medium ones.

I want to tackle this comment, because it has come up a few times. The team is VERY excited at the possibility of doing more with the "android chasis" but also don't want to complicate the Core Rulebook design too much. That being said, there's been a fair amount of hype for us exploring "Xenometric Android" as a potential versatile heritage in some future products. :)

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Second Edition now allows players to choose floating bonuses rather than traditional penalties for ancestries. (For example, a player creating an elf character can instead of taking a bonus to intelligence, a bonus to dexterity, a free attribute boost, and a penalty to constitution can instead opt to take a bonus to any two ability scores, much like a human character.)

Will this apply to Pathfinder Second Edition?

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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William Ronald wrote:

I look forward to going over this today.

So, when might there be a chance for more Starfinder Second Edition playtest demos at conventions?

We'll have some info about that on this week's Paizo live! :)


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thurston Hillman wrote:
Herald of the Redeemer Queen wrote:
That said, was hoping that since Androids are being actually created in Starfinder timeline, was hoping to see an option for them to emulate non-human Ancestries, especially non-Medium ones.
I want to tackle this comment, because it has come up a few times. The team is VERY excited at the possibility of doing more with the "android chasis" but also don't want to complicate the Core Rulebook design too much. That being said, there's been a fair amount of hype for us exploring "Xenometric Android" as a potential versatile heritage in some future products. :)

That's entirely fair, and glad to hear it's at least being considered! My mind initially just went to a Heritage that grants Adoptive Ancestry, but an Aiudaran/Dromaar-style Versatile Heritage makes way more sense.


My only concern with the new presentation is that it's going to make it a lot more difficult to introduce new ancestries if it requires two pages of lore plus another two pages of heritages/ancestry feats.

I say this because in SF1, reducing species to a sidebar made it easier to introduce species and create that cantina feel a lot more.

I get WHY you're doing it like this (so it's backwards compatible with PF2 and there's more to an ancestry than just the starting statistics), but it is still a concern that the "barrier of entry" for a new species will reduce the out-there species that really add to the cantina feel.

That said, it also opens the opportunity for an entire book based around species that will introduce all of those out-there species like the living swarm and whatnot.

Paizo Employee Managing Creative Director (Starfinder)

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KingTreyIII wrote:
That said, it also opens the opportunity for an entire book based around species that will introduce all of those out-there species like the living swarm and whatnot.

Or several books in that vein... >_>

Honestly, the goal is that we want to include a TON of species in the game, because that is part of what defines Starfinder. The problem we've had in the past, is that a lot of species introduced in 1E just lacked any strong narrative beats or were simplified into numerical bonuses and associated immunities. It made species selection a hyper-focused numbers game for some, and generally left us with so many species that didn't have narrative hooks for people to grok beyond the mechanics.

Our goal going forward is really to present playable species that feel like you can play them. In SF1, we ended off with just over 100 playable species. If one SF2E book could introduce say 24 playable ancestries and give them 6ish pages each, then I'd say we're well in the ballpark of keeping pace with 1E's release schedule :)


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Internal Respirator is a bummer to see as a level 9 feat. Androids in SF1 could survive vacuum indefinitely from level 1 by default, while this is just giving an hour of breath-holding halfway through the career. This really feels like a first-level feat in terms of what it can do and how Starfinder should be valuing things as a game with space suits as armor.

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

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QuidEst wrote:
Internal Respirator is a bummer to see as a level 9 feat. Androids in SF1 could survive vacuum indefinitely from level 1 by default, while this is just giving an hour of breath-holding halfway through the career. This really feels like a first-level feat in terms of what it can do and how Starfinder should be valuing things as a game with space suits as armor.

Sounds like some excellent feedback to provide when the playtest launches!


A couple things I noticed (excluding stuff like “we don’t know what X does” since that was likely omitted for page space):

Putting it in a spoiler because it seems like more of a playtest feedback thing:
QuidEst wrote:
Internal Respirator is a bummer to see as a level 9 feat. Androids in SF1 could survive vacuum indefinitely from level 1 by default, while this is just giving an hour of breath-holding halfway through the career. This really feels like a first-level feat in terms of what it can do and how Starfinder should be valuing things as a game with space suits as armor.

Just re-emphasizing this

The networked android heritage mentions “a construct with the technological trait,” then Machine Saboteur mentions “a creature with the tech trait.” Those feel like they should be the exact same trait (which would be the tech trait, since PF2 has a couple published items with that trait already).

Internal Compartment mentions how many actions it takes to store an item, but it would be nice for confirmation on how many actions it takes to DRAW said item, too. And just for clarification: the last sentence of Internal Compartment is meant to say that you can basically Quick Draw with a weapon stored in your arm, yes? It seems obvious, but I could see some weird discourse in the exact wording.

Memory Matrix has the fortune trait, which…doesn’t really make sense to me. Also, it would probably be easier to say that you end the confused or controlled condition on a critical success (rather than just a nat 20), since that feels about right for a level 17 feat, but I can also see the balance with how it’s currently written.

Armor Ace seems a bit powerful for a level 1 feat, especially considering Mighty Bulwark is a level 10 feat. Similarly, how DOES Armor Ace interact with feats like Mighty Bulwark?

For Bathed in Blood, does that one-action activity count as assisted recovery (thus reducing the flat check DC to 10 for the rest of that persistent damage)? Similarly, seems a bit odd that that action doesn’t have a frequency (since assisted recovery is exclusively once per round), but I could see the balance in that if it DOESN’T count as assisted recovery.

One with the Night seems a bit powerful, considering that the closest analogue is Shadow Sight, which only gives greater darkvision for 1 minute once per hour. (There’s also Defy the Darkness, but I’m not really counting that since even PFS looked at that and went “that seems like a bit much.”)

The Advantageous Assault vesk feat has the same name as a fighter feat, so it might be best to change it.


QuidEst wrote:
Internal Respirator is a bummer to see as a level 9 feat. Androids in SF1 could survive vacuum indefinitely from level 1 by default, while this is just giving an hour of breath-holding halfway through the career. This really feels like a first-level feat in terms of what it can do and how Starfinder should be valuing things as a game with space suits as armor.

Seconding this, some feat imported from PF2E could be underwhelming at that level. This one is rather evident, but some may appear to us final user when the meta-state is clarified with the complete playtest


Are Vesk playable in Pathfinder?

I remember hearing about “cross-compatibility”


I can't help but notice the mention of Skill Feats like 'Phreaker', but I can't quite find where that is meant to be. Have I missed a field test drop somewhere? it's not in the previous two from what I can tell


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I must say, looking over the Android, I am very happy that the Android is just a PF2E Android with extra options more thematic to SF2E. It gives me the confidence that this really is being designed with intercompatibility in mind.


VerBeeker wrote:

Are Vesk playable in Pathfinder?

I remember hearing about “cross-compatibility”

From what I can see, it's perfectly compatible with PF2E. The only thing stopping you from playing it in your PF2E game is your GM saying it'd be anachronistic or otherwise unfitting. Rules wise, it should work.

Second Seekers (Roheas)

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Bring back the Species name its So Good and much more thematically appropriate for Starfinder (a Bantrid and a Entu Colony have really very little in common ancestrywise)


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eddv wrote:
Bring back the Species name its So Good and much more thematically appropriate for Starfinder (a Bantrid and a Entu Colony have really very little in common ancestrywise)

Cool as the term Species is, as a GM who plans to incorporate both sets, I'd really rather keep the "This means this and that means that" charts to a minimum.


Herald of the Redeemer Queen wrote:
That said, was hoping that since Androids are being actually created in Starfinder timeline, was hoping to see an option for them to emulate non-human Ancestries, especially non-Medium ones.

For the time being, use Mixed Ancestry and choose Android for it. You lose out on Constructed and Emotionless, but you can use Android Feats on another Ancestry. Talk with GM to use Mixed Ancestry on Android with an added option of being Small in size depending on what Ancestry you chose for the mix.


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moosher12 wrote:
VerBeeker wrote:

Are Vesk playable in Pathfinder?

I remember hearing about “cross-compatibility”

From what I can see, it's perfectly compatible with PF2E. The only thing stopping you from playing it in your PF2E game is your GM saying it'd be anachronistic or otherwise unfitting. Rules wise, it should work.

Other than some possible feats, the Vesk are just bulkier Iruxi.

Dark Archive

Hmm interesting to see Aballon being mentioned. I wonder if that means that planet is safe or if its writers hiding which planets gets blown up xD


olimar92 wrote:


Other than some possible feats, the Vesk are just bulkier Iruxi.

I should emphasize. Vesk would be easy to drop into most custom world campaigns. But for example, I currently operate campaigns in the Lost Omens campaign setting in the 4710s. And while I could find an excuse for a Vesk to be there, I can see why other GMs who run Lost Omens might hesitate.

Dark Archive

I like ability flaws so nice to see they are in. Not too surprised vesk got int flaw changed to wisdom flaw, it helps them having different stats than iruxi


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moosher12 wrote:

I should emphasize. Vesk would be easy to drop into most custom world campaigns. But for example, I currently operate campaigns in the Lost Omens campaign setting in the 4710s. And while I could find an excuse for a Vesk to be there, I can see why other GMs who run Lost Omens might hesitate.

Use stats for bulky Iruxi, don't need to be using the lore of Vesk. Can even go the other way with Starfinder and use Iruxi for more agile Vesk.


Mark Moreland wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Internal Respirator is a bummer to see as a level 9 feat. Androids in SF1 could survive vacuum indefinitely from level 1 by default, while this is just giving an hour of breath-holding halfway through the career. This really feels like a first-level feat in terms of what it can do and how Starfinder should be valuing things as a game with space suits as armor.
Sounds like some excellent feedback to provide when the playtest launches!

Definitely why I'm very happy to be getting the chance for a playtest!


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olimar92 wrote:
moosher12 wrote:

I should emphasize. Vesk would be easy to drop into most custom world campaigns. But for example, I currently operate campaigns in the Lost Omens campaign setting in the 4710s. And while I could find an excuse for a Vesk to be there, I can see why other GMs who run Lost Omens might hesitate.

Use stats for bulky Iruxi, don't need to be using the lore of Vesk. Can even go the other way with Starfinder and use Iruxi for more agile Vesk.

I'm not the one to convince here. I already know how to employ a Vesk that is a Vesk. I was telling VerBeeker that it's up to the GM to greenlight the Vesk. Vesk is compatible to Pathfinder, but it'd likely be an ancestry with the Rare trait in Pathfinder, so it's up to the GM to allow or disallow it. Attempts to flavor it as another race from the player side does not change the fact a Vesk is a Vesk, and only GM fiat can change that.


Something very interesting is that the vesk are the only ancestry as far as I can tell to get +physical +physical, instead of the +physical +mental every other ancestry with a flaw has. I wonder if this is just a weird quirk of the Vesk (they have a wis flaw, so thats out. They had an int flaw in 1e so that would be weird, and while they have a lot of intimidation feats, the rest of cha is a weird fit), or if this means that other ancestries will get this treatment.


It's interesting that Vesk are +2 Str + 2 Con. Back during the PF2 playtest is was stated (I believe by Mark Seifter but I might be missremembering) that they deliberately avoided creating ancestries with bonuses to two physical or two mental stats because it was felt that would too easily create an "objectively best," ancestry for certain classes.

Given that the blog says this exact same problem happened with SF1 species and they're trying to avoid it now it's worth noting that the former thinking has apparantly changed.

Paizo Employee Managing Creative Director (Starfinder)

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Spamotron wrote:

It's interesting that Vesk are +2 Str + 2 Con. Back during the PF2 playtest is was stated (I believe by Mark Seifter but I might be missremembering) that they deliberately avoided creating ancestries with bonuses to two physical or two mental stats because it was felt that would too easily create an "objectively best," ancestry for certain classes.

Given that the blog says this exact same problem happened with SF1 species and they're trying to avoid it now it's worth noting that the former thinking has apparantly changed.

It's also important to note, that while these ancestries are being built for compatibility, they aren't being built to be 100% balanced in the Pathfinder ecosystem.

Strength and melee damage aren't as important in Starfinder, where most threats have viable long-range options. :)

Dataphiles

I'm so excited! I've been excited for the changes to Pathfinder but Starfinder has always been my favorite of Paizo's. Can't wait to see more Starfinder changes and awesomeness!


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The vesk feats look very focused on one very particular style of character. I worry this is going to be abit too mono-culture and restrictive.

I might have to just allow all starfinder characters to be able to take human feats or something.

Grand Archive

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Milo v3 wrote:

The vesk feats look very focused on one very particular style of character. I worry this is going to be abit too mono-culture and restrictive.

I might have to just allow all starfinder characters to be able to take human feats or something.

Reminder: This is a playtest, not a preview. Many things in PF2 playtests have had everything heavily rewritten because of feedback.

Paizo Employee

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Elfteiroh wrote:
Milo v3 wrote:

The vesk feats look very focused on one very particular style of character. I worry this is going to be abit too mono-culture and restrictive.

I might have to just allow all starfinder characters to be able to take human feats or something.

Reminder: This is a playtest, not a preview. Many things in PF2 playtests have had everything heavily rewritten because of feedback.

To be clear, this is a field test of a playtest. Anything we post in a field test may undergo substantial rewrites before the public playtest.

Wayfinders

Milo v3 wrote:

The vesk feats look very focused on one very particular style of character. I worry this is going to be abit too mono-culture and restrictive.

I might have to just allow all starfinder characters to be able to take human feats or something.

Assuming SF2e has the Adopted Ancestry feat like PF2e does that should be easy to do.

Adopted Ancestry .


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Milo v3 wrote:

The vesk feats look very focused on one very particular style of character. I worry this is going to be abit too mono-culture and restrictive.

I might have to just allow all starfinder characters to be able to take human feats or something.

Hmm. Between the fleet (Briskwander), aquatic (Wavecrest), brutal (Warblood) and the armor plated (Plated) and mystical/psychic (Venomthought) options I feel even before you get to feats there are a lot of options…and that’s just at Heritage level. The feats look fairly expansive, if a little combat heavy.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
moosher12 wrote:
eddv wrote:
Bring back the Species name its So Good and much more thematically appropriate for Starfinder (a Bantrid and a Entu Colony have really very little in common ancestrywise)
Cool as the term Species is, as a GM who plans to incorporate both sets, I'd really rather keep the "This means this and that means that" charts to a minimum.

Also "Species" is kind of a bonkers category to apply to something like Androids or robots

Wayfinders

Dimity wrote:
moosher12 wrote:
eddv wrote:
Bring back the Species name its So Good and much more thematically appropriate for Starfinder (a Bantrid and a Entu Colony have really very little in common ancestrywise)
Cool as the term Species is, as a GM who plans to incorporate both sets, I'd really rather keep the "This means this and that means that" charts to a minimum.
Also "Species" is kind of a bonkers category to apply to something like Androids or robots

Species in Starfinder are MUCH more varied than in Pathfinder Novans don't have parents they are made from dying stars. NASA is looking for life(other species) on Mars, not Ancestries. Androids, robots, SROs are probably better off with terms like generation make and model but that would get too confusing splitting up terms even more.

I play both games currently so I'm used to using both species and Ancestries so fine with either. But I do like the idea of Starfinder keeping species that way if I see the word species or Ancestries I know which game to look them up in. This could be more useful for species that are in both games with their own variations. Also, Ancestry is a bit past tense sounding, so makes sense for someone in Starfinder to refer to Ancestries in Pathfinder as Ancestries while discovering new species out in space or the drift in Starfinder.


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I mean, Pathfinder already has ancestries that don't have parents or even relatives: poppets, skeletons, leshies, etc.

But I don't think having one-for-one substitutions replacing fantasy word for SF word or vice versa is really a problem, since the point of using the same basic rules is not so that specific characters are interchangeable. Like if they wanted to rename "Thievery" as "Security" and "Craft" as "Engineering" that would be fine, so I'm fine with either Species or Ancestry.


This is looking really good! I wasn't feeling the android ancestry in PF2, but with these new options they are definitely something I will look forward to playing :D


Vesk Weapon Familiarity mentions doshkos but I dont see any doshkos listed in any of the playtest. Are we just using any two-handed axe for now?


Driftbourne wrote:

Assuming SF2e has the Adopted Ancestry feat like PF2e does that should be easy to do.

Adopted Ancestry .

That just adds an extra tax in my mind. Better to just make a broad free change for all, rather than requiring people burn character options just to be able to not be constrained by their ancestry.

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:


Hmm. Between the fleet (Briskwander), aquatic (Wavecrest), brutal (Warblood) and the armor plated (Plated) and mystical/psychic (Venomthought) options I feel even before you get to feats there are a lot of options…and that’s just at Heritage level. The feats look fairly expansive, if a little combat heavy.

The heritages are fine.


Milo v3 wrote:
Driftbourne wrote:

Assuming SF2e has the Adopted Ancestry feat like PF2e does that should be easy to do.

Adopted Ancestry .

That just adds an extra tax in my mind. Better to just make a broad free change for all, rather than requiring people burn character options just to be able to not be constrained by their ancestry.

OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:


Hmm. Between the fleet (Briskwander), aquatic (Wavecrest), brutal (Warblood) and the armor plated (Plated) and mystical/psychic (Venomthought) options I feel even before you get to feats there are a lot of options…and that’s just at Heritage level. The feats look fairly expansive, if a little combat heavy.
The heritages are fine.

Another option is to use the Custom Mixed Heritage option to make Human a versatile heritage.

On top of Adopted Ancestry and allowing Custom Mixed Heritages, I made the Halfling ancestry feat, Cultural Adaptability, a universal ancestry feat that any ancestry can take as a home rule. (Though I also run Ancestry Paragon, so the rule was more made to prevent my players from running out of Ancestry feat options that interest them).

But you're free to make human feats available. Personally I'd be wary of making human feats universal for free, that it would hurt the benefits of being human, though, but if it works at your table, go for it.


PossibleCabbage wrote:

I mean, Pathfinder already has ancestries that don't have parents or even relatives: poppets, skeletons, leshies, etc.

But I don't think having one-for-one substitutions replacing fantasy word for SF word or vice versa is really a problem, since the point of using the same basic rules is not so that specific characters are interchangeable. Like if they wanted to rename "Thievery" as "Security" and "Craft" as "Engineering" that would be fine, so I'm fine with either Species or Ancestry.

There's also another fact to consider. 5e changed their terminology from "race" to "species". So yeah, can't have that in the ORC.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
Like if they wanted to rename "Thievery" as "Security" and "Craft" as "Engineering" that would be fine, so I'm fine with either Species or Ancestry.
Networked Android wrote:
You can attempt Computers checks to Hack System and Thievery checks to Disable a Device or Pick a Lock on technological devices at a range of 30 feet.

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