Pathfinder Second Edition Remaster Project!

Gaulin wrote:

Hello I would like an option for leshy to be medium sized.

I am now imagining leshies of ALL sizes, and the sequoyah leshy stomping half the meeting house away as they come into the mission briefing.

STOMP!

STOMP!

STOMP!

Still with that new-to-the-world Flaw to Intelligence, of course.

Gaulin wrote:

Hello I would like an option for leshy to be medium sized.

Thank you

I think it's time someone explains what leshy means. I've seen the term a couple times which seemed to imply sexy girls in some way like moe or kawaii, but nothing definitive, and neither of those really seem to fit here.

Huh? Leshies are spirits animating bodies made of plant matter; they were in PF1 as familiars to Druids (if memory serves?), and they were one of the first Ancestries introduced to PF2.

EDIT: There's three different PF1 Archetypes named for Leshies, they had monster statblocks and could be summoned with rituals, and Vine Leshies were a playable Race. They're far from new, and a quick Google suggests they're named for a Slavic forest god.

Hello I would like an option for leshy to be medium sized.

Thank you

Did you mean: Ghoran

Ghoran are pretty sweet, but I'm still salty that Delicious got removed. That was a bitter pill to swallow.

Considering this is the first time I've seen it referencing an rpg much less pathfinder, so why would I expect to find it on a rules list?

A simple forum search shows that the word has been used more than 8,000 times on these boards. More than 330 pages of results for that search, dating back to 2014.

Showing 8,301 to 8,321 of 8,321 items for: leshy in messageboards

Looks like you just haven't been paying attention. Or reading actual Pathfinder material.

I mean sure, saying it's on AoN is a bit helpful but I've never had a reason to think it would be a mechanic or technical term. I just got done saying how it's previous use was similar to moe and kawaii, not exactly things you look at an rpg ruleset to understand.

in myths, Leshy are Slavic spirit of the forest that proect wild animals and the woods and are analogous to the Woodwose of Western Europe, the Green Man of Britain and the Basajaun of the Basque Country. I'm not familiar with it meaning "moe and kawaii" though.

Outside of that it's in the video game Megami Tensei series and the Witcher series.

I'd rather not argue about what lore a person does not know in the system. We all had to start somewhere, right? Let's drop this, please.

In addition, I would really appreciate if we stop discussing other editions. OGL and ORC are important to the remaster, but do we really need to keep comparing 3.5 and PF1 mechanics with PF2?

In addition, I would really appreciate if we stop discussing other editions. OGL and ORC are important to the remaster, but do we really need to keep comparing 3.5 and PF1 mechanics with PF2?

Since OGL used cites D&D SRD 3.5 in PF1/2 - we do need to discuss why things are changing in ORC for PF2e, which is all about removing legacy things from PF2e. People saying that they (dis)like and have (not) a problem with the changes should not be confused with edition warring - because that is just as much an OGL SRD vs. ORC SRD discussion

Ghoran are pretty sweet, but I'm still salty that Delicious got removed. That was a bitter pill to swallow.

I hope this didn't sour you on anything. There's still a lot that's savory.

to make this post somewhat on topic, you think the old optional flaw rule will make a reappearance in the remaster?

If you're talking about "two flaws for a bonus", no reason it would - the republishing is being treated as bigger errata, and that change was errata. "If the GM is chill with it, you're free to lower your ability modifier" will probably stick around, though.

My understanding was that the infrastructure they use has cascading deletion in that if they delete something it deletes all posts replying to the post that was deleted.

to make this post somewhat on topic, you think the old optional flaw rule will make a reappearance in the remaster?

On deletion : yes, and they keep, for a time, the deleted posts in stasis so that people who posted an important text can ask them to get it through PM.

For the optional flaw rule, I very sincerely doubt it since the change was rather well-received on the boards and I do not see it being reversed with an errata (which Remastered mostly is, except for the big changes Paizo has already mentioned).

I'd rather not argue about what lore a person does not know in the system. We all had to start somewhere, right? Let's drop this, please.

In addition, I would really appreciate if we stop discussing other editions. OGL and ORC are important to the remaster, but do we really need to keep comparing 3.5 and PF1 mechanics with PF2?

When someone seems to be stating things from a position of authority, it is a bit of a shock/surprise to discover they do not really know the game. At least here it was to me.

People reacting to this did not feel out of place to me.

And explaining what were the flaws in PF1 that PF2 was designed to avoid does not feel (and is definitely not intended on my part) like bashing the people who like the PF1 system. After all, PF2 has its flaws too.

Gaulin wrote:

Hello I would like an option for leshy to be medium sized.

Thank you

Did you mean: Ghoran

I know of ghoran but imo they aren't really the same thing. Leshy are freeform, you think of a plant type creature, sure that could be a leshy. Ghoran are basically humans made you of plant material, like sylvari from gw2. You couldnt make a treant looking character that was medium sized and call it a ghoran, but you could make a treant looking character and have it be small and slap the leshy name on it.

Not going to lie, the main reason I would like the option for medium leshy are making it easier to find good minis. That, and I would love to make a big lumbering (pun intended) nature spirit. Would be a pretty easy little feat to add.

fujisempai wrote:

My understanding was that the infrastructure they use has cascading deletion in that if they delete something it deletes all posts replying to the post that was deleted.

to make this post somewhat on topic, you think the old optional flaw rule will make a reappearance in the remaster?

On deletion : yes, and they keep, for a time, the deleted posts in stasis so that people who posted an important text can ask them to get it through PM.

For the optional flaw rule, I very sincerely doubt it since the change was rather well-received on the boards and I do not see it being reversed with an errata (which Remastered mostly is, except for the big changes Paizo has already mentioned).

Honestly, I got the impression that the reception was pretty much half-and-half on the optional flaw change. That said, I, too, doubt that they're going to go back on it. It's settled.

YuriP wrote:

Gaulin wrote:

Hello I would like an option for leshy to be medium sized.

Thank you

Did you mean: Ghoran

I know of ghoran but imo they aren't really the same thing. Leshy are freeform, you think of a plant type creature, sure that could be a leshy. Ghoran are basically humans made you of plant material, like sylvari from gw2. You couldnt make a treant looking character that was medium sized and call it a ghoran, but you could make a treant looking character and have it be small and slap the leshy name on it.

Not going to lie, the main reason I would like the option for medium leshy are making it easier to find good minis. That, and I would love to make a big lumbering (pun intended) nature spirit. Would be a pretty easy little feat to add.

"Each ghoran is essentially an ancient spark of life that inhabits, successively, a series of plantlike bodies. "

"Roughly humanoid in size and shape, a ghoran's body is mostly made up of a fibrous plant material resembling a woody vine, with a face like an enormous, colorful flower. Ghorans have a great deal of control over the shape and structure of their bodies: with a few hours of effort, a ghoran might make themselves taller or shorter, long-limbed or barrel-chested."

"Though they can learn to smile or laugh to fit in with other ancestries, they tend to use a different set of emotional signifiers, fluttering their face-petals to show happiness and making a rustling sound when agitated or upset."

Ghorans are definitely not humans made out of plant material.

In addition to medium leshies, I wanted small ghorans like they have in Starfinder, but maybe they were worried too much about overlapping niches?

Large leshies, centaurs, minotaurs...

I am unsure the PF2 system can fully dispense Large at Level One as, say, a heritage, without some extreme modification that basically removes the distinction beyond, essentially, “medium plus”. Even in a Remaster.

Look at how Flying ancestries have been published: piecemail with like 1-foot flight at Level One, scaling to minutes per day, hours per day, with actual full-fledged flight waiting until Level Seventeen!

Gaulin wrote:

YuriP wrote:

Gaulin wrote:

Hello I would like an option for leshy to be medium sized.

Thank you

Did you mean: Ghoran

I know of ghoran but imo they aren't really the same thing. Leshy are freeform, you think of a plant type creature, sure that could be a leshy. Ghoran are basically humans made you of plant material, like sylvari from gw2. You couldnt make a treant looking character that was medium sized and call it a ghoran, but you could make a treant looking character and have it be small and slap the leshy name on it.

Not going to lie, the main reason I would like the option for medium leshy are making it easier to find good minis. That, and I would love to make a big lumbering (pun intended) nature spirit. Would be a pretty easy little feat to add.

"Each ghoran is essentially an ancient spark of life that inhabits, successively, a series of plantlike bodies. "

"Roughly humanoid in size and shape, a ghoran's body is mostly made up of a fibrous plant material resembling a woody vine, with a face like an enormous, colorful flower. Ghorans have a great deal of control over the shape and structure of their bodies: with a few hours of effort, a ghoran might make themselves taller or shorter, long-limbed or barrel-chested."

"Though they can learn to smile or laugh to fit in with other ancestries, they tend to use a different set of emotional signifiers, fluttering their face-petals to show happiness and making a rustling sound when agitated or upset."

Ghorans are definitely not humans made out of plant material.

Maybe I'm not getting my idea across properly, but reading everything you quoted doesn't really change anything. Every piece of art I've seen of them is a humanoid plant person, because they can change their height or limb length doesn't mean they can look like a little pear pangolin or terrifying mushroom monster with a dozen eyes. All ghoran I have ever seen looks humanoid but made out of vegetable matter. You cannot make something that looks like a medium version of treebeard and say it's a ghoran.

I would like to see more varied art for them. I think that's all we really need. That being said, I do want more plant ancestries and heritages.

Is "I want to be Small/Medium" have any sort of mechanical impact? The only thing where size really matters is "athletics checks to trip or grapple" right?

It seems reasonable to just let people play a small or medium version of anything (except for maybe tiny ancestries, like sprites.) Like if you want your poppet character to be one of those really big stuffed animals that they give out as prizes at the county fair, I don't think that "you are mauled by a giant teddy bear" is really sillier than "you are mauled by a dog on wheels."

It has some mechanical effects here and there aside from that--the Bulk someone takes on when they carry you, for example, and the spaces you can cram into.

That being said, I've long thought most ancestries should be "Medium or Small", like fleshwarps and automatons. Like, little people exist. I don't feel qualified to speak to that, but I think allowing Small-sized variants is a common house rule.

I really love that there's almost no mechanical impact for wanting to be small vs medium. It allows me to play all the smalls that I want.

I really love that there's almost no mechanical impact for wanting to be small vs medium. It allows me to play all the smalls that I want.

Removing the 'flaw' for 'extra boost' got rid of the potentially disturbing tones of playing smaller characters and how their abilities were lined up.

In addition, homogenizing the stat bumps makes it far, far easier to create characters without having to play all sorts of games in character creation to avoid making a sub-optimal character of an ancestry that will degrade party capabilities.

I really love that there's almost no mechanical impact for wanting to be small vs medium. It allows me to play all the smalls that I want.

I agree with the almost complete bundling of Small and Medium.

But I would also have liked a clear scaling according to Size, so that a Medium creature visiting Tiny land would feel like a Huge creature in Absalom.

If you're talking about "two flaws for a bonus", no reason it would - the republishing is being treated as bigger errata, and that change was errata. "If the GM is chill with it, you're free to lower your ability modifier" will probably stick around, though.

I prefer they errata that errata to be pick any two bonus but if you take an optional flaw you can take another bonus, as that is the only way to make 3 bonus 1 flaw which is what CRB ancestries also use. You cannot shuffle those ancestry bonus/flaws around despite that being the intent of the new rule

Remaster is absolutely doing errata for errata that is not off the table, how many times has alchemist already been errata and its still not there yet and getting another pass with remaster.

I must admit that, before these news about Remastered appeared, I was feeling that the boards were feeling pretty quiet and somewhat boring. And then Paizo springs this.

It's not the first time I marvel at their ability to reignite our passion on the boards.

MadScientistWorking wrote:

Also screw all the ideas for names here's the new naming scheme:

Generic Stabby Person
Really Extra Stabby Stabby Person
Sneaky Stabby Person
Nature Stabby Person
Punchy Stabby Person
Religious Stabby Person
Generic Nerd
Nature Nerd
Marching Band Nerd
Chemist Nerd
Charismatic Nerd

And now I want to see a Really Extra Stabby Stabby Person option to have an Instinct that uses Nerd Rage . . . .

By the way, make that Charismatic Nerd Rage, and this actually means something specific that Pathfinder 1st Edition used to have that seemed to be pretty popular.

Removed some off topic posts. To be clear, most of the posts removed did not violate the Community Guidelines in a negative way. The intent is for the conversation to remain on topic to the original post, in this case the Remaster. If another topic comes up in discussion, spin that thread off on its own and link it.

The Diplomat wrote:

Since it’s going to be quite a wait until the final draft of Player Core 2, and one of the stated goals of this Remastering project is to move away from OGL tropes, I do hope the Monk class will be renamed to “Cultivator”, to be more in keeping with modern Xianxia film and literature.

...the name “Monk” as a class is somewhat problematic.

Even more problematic is that no one knows what the heck a "cultivator" even is.

"Monk," or "martial artist," or some other more recognizable term will probably make for better sales.

I don't expect we will see much change in that regard as a result.

If they did rename it, you can be sure that "cultivator" would become mainstream outside Xianxia fandom within a year.

Large leshies, centaurs, minotaurs...

I am unsure the PF2 system can fully dispense Large at Level One as, say, a heritage, without some extreme modification that basically removes the distinction beyond, essentially, “medium plus”. Even in a Remaster.

Look at how Flying ancestries have been published: piecemail with like 1-foot flight at Level One, scaling to minutes per day, hours per day, with actual full-fledged flight waiting until Level Seventeen!

That Paizo have been disciplined here is really good. There is a nice progression of jump, fly teleport in PF2. It makes some sense. It is important for the GM for narrative predictability and it is nice that it is consistent. Size large however I think they could be more relaxed about, but it might impact certain plots where the GM assumes character size.

Large leshies, centaurs, minotaurs...

I am unsure the PF2 system can fully dispense Large at Level One as, say, a heritage, without some extreme modification that basically removes the distinction beyond, essentially, “medium plus”. Even in a Remaster.

Look at how Flying ancestries have been published: piecemail with like 1-foot flight at Level One, scaling to minutes per day, hours per day, with actual full-fledged flight waiting until Level Seventeen!

I'm just mad that lizardfolk have to be level 17 to be beeg, but if I played a construct instead I could be beeg at level 13. I want to be beeg lizard.

Damn, the details for the remaster are looking awesome!