Paizo Subscriptions Update

I am not sure which would be worse -- If Paizo had a vodka shot glass subscription, or if anyone actually signed up for that subscription.

I am not sure which would be worse -- If Paizo had a vodka shot glass subscription, or if anyone actually signed up for that subscription.

Create a pint glass subscription, then we'll talk.

David knott 242 wrote:

I am not sure which would be worse -- If Paizo had a vodka shot glass subscription, or if anyone actually signed up for that subscription.

Create a pint glass subscription, then we'll talk.

Every size glass is a shot glass if you are determined enough.

Nameless Henchman wrote:

David knott 242 wrote:

I am not sure which would be worse -- If Paizo had a vodka shot glass subscription, or if anyone actually signed up for that subscription.

Create a pint glass subscription, then we'll talk.

Every size glass is a shot glass if you are determined enough.

I think Cayden Cailean said that once.

I am not sure which would be worse -- If Paizo had a vodka shot glass subscription, or if anyone actually signed up for that subscription.

You're saying that because you're one of those teenage anime kids that prefer dumbed down paper cups or plastic for drinking and not real manly shot glasses. This is sad. Paizo used to carry the true light but now they have sold themselves out for easy money from people who drink their mead from anything and don't even wear utilikilts.

Nameless Henchman wrote:

David knott 242 wrote:

I am not sure which would be worse -- If Paizo had a vodka shot glass subscription, or if anyone actually signed up for that subscription.

Create a pint glass subscription, then we'll talk.

Every size glass is a shot glass if you are determined enough.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

I realize that the Customer Service email is the only official way to get help with issues, but I sent an email one month ago that my initial AP subscription hadn't been sent after one month of waiting, and a month has passed by and no one has responded to my ticket, after two additional email followups. The ticket # is 159144. What does it take to get customer service from Paizo? A one-month wait is frankly unacceptable. Thank you for anyone from Customer Service who may read this and help me out.

I realize that the Customer Service email is the only official way to get help with issues, but I sent an email one month ago that my initial AP subscription hadn't been sent after one month of waiting, and a month has passed by and no one has responded to my ticket, after two additional email followups. The ticket # is 159144. What does it take to get customer service from Paizo? A one-month wait is frankly unacceptable. Thank you for anyone from Customer Service who may read this and help me out.

You may want to post this to the Customer Service forum itself, which tends to get a fair amount of traffic--it might be seen by the right people more readily over there.

Zorob wrote:

I realize that the Customer Service email is the only official way to get help with issues, but I sent an email one month ago that my initial AP subscription hadn't been sent after one month of waiting, and a month has passed by and no one has responded to my ticket, after two additional email followups. The ticket # is 159144. What does it take to get customer service from Paizo? A one-month wait is frankly unacceptable. Thank you for anyone from Customer Service who may read this and help me out.

You may want to post this to the Customer Service forum itself, which tends to get a fair amount of traffic--it might be seen by the right people more readily over there.

I thought the Customer Service forums were discontinued some months ago? I tried to do as much research as I could about getting some help with this before posting, but I certainly may have missed something.

I thought the Customer Service forums were discontinued some months ago? I tried to do as much research as I could about getting some help with this before posting, but I certainly may have missed something.

I just checked; you are correct! Shows you how long it's been since I used them. So much for my attempt to be helpful! If nothing else, it reinforces the earlier discussion about getting the FAQ up to date (where a dead link to the forums is still listed as a way to contact Customer Service).

It was.

Aaron Shanks wrote:

There are no more Bestiary or Alien Archive books planned. There will be new creatures. There are no plans for new pawns. Paizo is keeping the basics in stock for as long there’s enough demand.

EEK! I didn't know Paizo was doing that poorly. I thought Starfinder was being moderately successful.

I’m a bit shocked as to how my statement was interpreted. Pathfinder and Starfinder are healthy and will continue for years to come. But the Bestiaries and Alien Archives, as a name and type of book, have ended in favor of other concepts, like Book of the Dead and Interstellar Species. “Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated.” —M. Twain, I believe.

Adding my disappointment regarding dropping the pawns lines. I really enjoy using these. Literally was putting a box of them in my cart when I noticed this blog post. Hope that they comeback or some other affordable cost-effective option appears later.

emky wrote:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

There are no more Bestiary or Alien Archive books planned. There will be new creatures. There are no plans for new pawns. Paizo is keeping the basics in stock for as long there’s enough demand.

EEK! I didn't know Paizo was doing that poorly. I thought Starfinder was being moderately successful.

I’m a bit shocked as to how my statement was interpreted. Pathfinder and Starfinder are healthy and will continue for years to come. But the Bestiaries and Alien Archives, as a name and type of book, have ended in favor of other concepts, like Book of the Dead and Interstellar Species. “Rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated.” —M. Twain, I believe.

Personally, as someone who went through the seven bestiaries of PF1, I much prefer this new format. Like, creatures are awesome, but creatures in context are even better.

Adding my disappointment regarding dropping the pawns lines. I really enjoy using these. Literally was putting a box of them in my cart when I noticed this blog post. Hope that they comeback or some other affordable cost-effective option appears later.

Going to express some additional hope pawns will come back someday. Also, in the meantime, really think Paizo should consider adding the Gamemastery Guide NPC Collection and Player Character Collection pawns to the list of stock they're maintaining. Those are also kind of important for new GMs, I think. I've gotten so much value out of those pawns at my table. Watching my players' eyes sparkle as flip through and decide which illustration best matches their character. Wouldn't want people to miss out on these jewels.

Just going to get this out there but if you had already pre-ordered Red Shift Rally, DON'T sub to the Starfinder Adventures until after it's shipped or else it may be delayed and won't ship with your other pre-order subs. Seen a lot of people saying that their order got royally screwed up.

Just going to get this out there but if you had already pre-ordered Red Shift Rally, DON'T sub to the Starfinder Adventures until after it's shipped or else it may be delayed and won't ship with your other pre-order subs. Seen a lot of people saying that their order got royally screwed up.

I saw that my sub order did not include that book, so I pre-ordered it and a couple of pins and I still have not seen my sub order go thru. That isn't what you stated, but now I wonder if my sub order is delayed because I did that since I have yet to get my PDFs...

It always happens that when there is a book I really hope to get the PDF early on (Ancestries, G&G, SoM, Dark Archive, Grand Bazaar, etc.) my subs always come late; but, when it is a month where my subs only seem to have maps, tiles, cards, or an adventure I don't care too much about then I might get it early. But, mainly I never seem to get my subs in the first week and a half. They always come to me late it seems. That is probably what is happening this month, too...

Ok, I've searched this thread, the faq's and the subscription notices. I must be missing it but I have tried. Please would someone confirm if the fans like myself who've been here since the start and spend loads still get to keep their grandfathered advantage discount? Because, if not, then it's time for me to head off.

We have no replacements to the pawns line at this time.

Yeah, it's called pushing the WizKids mini's.

This sucks, loved the pawns

I'm disappointed pawns will be disappearing as well. I thought they were a great way to represent the actual enemies and allies my players encounter. They will be missed :(

Question about the Pathfinder Pawns - what about Kingmaker Pawns? I believe these are shipping to backers of the Kingmaker compilation, but with the end of the Pawns line, will these be available at retail or on Paizo's webstore for non-backers?

Ok, I've searched this thread, the faq's and the subscription notices. I must be missing it but I have tried. Please would someone confirm if the fans like myself who've been here since the start and spend loads still get to keep their grandfathered advantage discount? Because, if not, then it's time for me to head off.

RobertTHEPerylous wrote:

snip

And will Legacy Subscribers to the Adventure Path still get the Advantage discount?

snip

I have am not aware of any changes to Legacy Subscribers.

Lewy wrote:

Ok, I've searched this thread, the faq's and the subscription notices. I must be missing it but I have tried. Please would someone confirm if the fans like myself who've been here since the start and spend loads still get to keep their grandfathered advantage discount? Because, if not, then it's time for me to head off.

From farther up the thread:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

RobertTHEPerylous wrote:

snip

And will Legacy Subscribers to the Adventure Path still get the Advantage discount?

snip

I have am not aware of any changes to Legacy Subscribers.

Thank you. I did trawl through it, must have missed that bit, thanks again.

Question about the Pathfinder Pawns - what about Kingmaker Pawns? I believe these are shipping to backers of the Kingmaker compilation, but with the end of the Pawns line, will these be available at retail or on Paizo's webstore for non-backers?

Aaron said this last page of this thread:

Aaron Shanks wrote:

Snarfburger wrote:

Just so I am clear, regarding Pawns (which seems to be the majority of the posts in this thread), when/if PF (2nd ed) Bestiary 4 or SF Alien Archive 5 come out, there will not be Pawn sets, correct? But as long as people still buy them, the previous Bestiary/Alien Archive sets will still be produced?

There are no more Bestiary or Alien Archive books planned. There will be new creatures. There are no plans for new pawns. Paizo is keeping the basics in stock for as long there’s enough demand.

Correction, there will be Kingmaker Pawns.

So the Kingmaker Pawns will be around for the Paizo Store and your FLGS.

A little late, but adding to the chorus of missing the pawns. Was my favorite accessory. I have regular minis, but Pathfinder has a specific art style that I enjoy and prefer over say DnD's art, and loved being able to put that on my table.

Ok, I've searched this thread, the faq's and the subscription notices. I must be missing it but I have tried. Please would someone confirm if the fans like myself who've been here since the start and spend loads still get to keep their grandfathered advantage discount? Because, if not, then it's time for me to head off.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. If you had the grandfathered Paizo Advantage discount, you should still have it. If you do not, please email Customer Service.

In case you folks wanted to know just how bad is the situation, there are now crowdfunding campaigns for board games that ask backers for additional $ because cardboard, plastic and shipping costs, in particular from China, went up so high recently that the original 2019 or 2020 pledges cannot cover the costs of the product.

Paizo could offer pawns at this price point because until 2 years ago, China was a cheap and efficient place to make them and ship them to the US. But between covid, the decoupling of Western economies from China and now the war in Ukraine on the top of that, global logistics and production of certain goods have gone entirely off the rails. I can imagine that Paizo is cutting their losses by axing the least profitable lines and the ones where a profitable 2022 price point would be not something the average customer would pay for.

Lewy wrote:

Ok, I've searched this thread, the faq's and the subscription notices. I must be missing it but I have tried. Please would someone confirm if the fans like myself who've been here since the start and spend loads still get to keep their grandfathered advantage discount? Because, if not, then it's time for me to head off.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. If you had the grandfathered Paizo Advantage discount, you should still have it. If you do not, please email Customer Service.

That's great, thank you.

Just FYI, from the release schedule, it looks like Kobold Press will be releasing a new set of 300 cardboard pawns in November. I know it’s not the same as AP-specific ones, but it might help some folks.

Just FYI, from the release schedule, it looks like Kobold Press will be releasing a new set of 300 cardboard pawns in November. I know it’s not the same as AP-specific ones, but it might help some folks.

They've already released multiple pawn sets.

They're also marketing them as "5th edition accessory" which automatically means they're aimed at a market volumes bigger than the Pathfinder one.

Perhaps if Paizo did the same ... but then it would have to deal with nerds screaming that Pathfinder is getting abandoned and betrayed for the dumbed-down video game that is 5e. Can't please everyone :)

Jhaeman wrote:

Just FYI, from the release schedule, it looks like Kobold Press will be releasing a new set of 300 cardboard pawns in November. I know it’s not the same as AP-specific ones, but it might help some folks.

They've already released multiple pawn sets.

They're also marketing them as "5th edition accessory" which automatically means they're aimed at a market volumes bigger than the Pathfinder one.

Perhaps if Paizo did the same ... but then it would have to deal with nerds screaming that Pathfinder is getting abandoned and betrayed for the dumbed-down video game that is 5e. Can't please everyone :)

I hate those videos and takes.

Wzrd wrote:

Due to the cost of international shipping, I would had of loved to see the ability to subscribe to just the PDFs.

If there was a PDF subscription, would it change your print buying habits?

It wouldn't.

I had subscribed to lost omens line and the AP line and would have subscribed to the rulebooks line if shipping wasn't so expensive. Rising tax and shipping costs forced me to drop the AP line first, and now the Lost Omens line too (although Customer Service not replying to my emails for several months is also one of the reasons for cancelling the lost omens line). (I mean, I asked CS to cancel LO subscription because of problems I had with AP subscription. No responses so far. Email from March is still unanswered.)

Currently, I'll probably buy PDFs of the books I want as they drop, and I'll still be buying hardcover copies of the books I'm more interested in (mostly lost omens line since it's so full of lore and pictures and a lot more nicer to read as a physical product, but also super interesting books like book of the dead and Dark Archives which I bought /will buy from the local game store, even if I already have the PDF(s).

If there was a subscription service for PDFs, especially if it had the perk of dropping the PDF a bit before the street date like it often does for physical subscribers? I would immediately sign up for the AP line, modules, lost omens, and rulebooks. It would save me trouble and effort, it would be convenient, and it would feed my desire to get my hands on the nice cool stuff immediately, preferrably Right Now.

I just can't wait for the Dark Archive!!!

(I just recently picked up the book of the dead physical version, despite having bought the PDF on street date or so).

This, or figure out a way to print and ship your products from within europe?

If there was a PDF subscription, would it change your print buying habits?

Wanted to chime in as well to say that, no, it would not. To date, the only print products I've purchased was an AP for 1e that was on sale and about to be out of print. Everything else I've bought has been a PDF, largely because they're much easier to transport and reference (especially via searching the file). The higher price point of print products, plus shipping (which can easily double the cost), means it's simply not within my budget. Plus, if I bought a PDF, I can use that to get a discount on its official Foundry module (if one exists) or import it into Foundry using the unofficial module. I can't do that with a physical book.

The lack of customer service is really bad

If there was a subscription service for PDFs, especially if it had the perk of dropping the PDF a bit before the street date like it often does for physical subscribers? I would immediately sign up for the AP line, modules, lost omens, and rulebooks. It would save me trouble and effort, it would be convenient, and it would feed my desire to get my hands on the nice cool stuff immediately, preferrably Right Now.

Seconding this. It would not change my print buying habits, as I no longer buy your printed books and will continue not to buy them. I did previously, just to get the PDF file early, then sold the books on E-bay for a fraction of their worth.

Let me subscribe to PDFs only. Let me download and read the PDF when they start going out to physical subscribers (at the same time they get access to the digital copy). I still love the Pathfinder AP line, even though (IMO) the quality of the adventures is in decline. I'm invested in the setting, in the world and in Paizo as a company and I would love to continue supporting you by reactivating my monthly AP subscription for PDFs only.

In all honesty, I'll likely continue buying the AP chapters when they become available regardless, but it would be nice to get access to them a little early as a way of saying "Paizo appreciates your brand loyalty and repeat custom".

I no longer buy your printed books and will continue not to buy them.

it would be nice to get access to them a little early as a way of saying "Paizo appreciates your brand loyalty and repeat custom".

So hold on, you've reduced your degree of customer loyalty by stopping to buy product X but you at the same time want to be rewarded for your customer loyalty? That's not how it works.

mikeawmids wrote:

I no longer buy your printed books and will continue not to buy them.

it would be nice to get access to them a little early as a way of saying "Paizo appreciates your brand loyalty and repeat custom".

So hold on, you've reduced your degree of customer loyalty by stopping to buy product X but you at the same time want to be rewarded for your customer loyalty? That's not how it works.

I stopped buying the print+pdf subscription bundle, for similar reasons to those highlighted above (ie: cost of shipping). I continue to support Paizo in a manner more affordable to me, by purchasing the PDFs only. What part of that was unclear, or demonstrates a dirth of loyalty?

Or are you being antagonistic for the sheer giggles?

Consistent purchasing is loyalty, not how many products a person buys.

Obviously not for Paizo, since their loyalty incentive rewards you for subscribing to multiple product lines, not for how long you've been consistently purchasing stuff. So, yes, reducing the number of your subs is a reduction in customer loyalty.

It’s not a value judgement as to which kind of customer they prefer.

When pdf subscriptions come in, some customers will drop their print subscriptions. That means less sales, smaller print runs, higher per unit costs and less profit.

Some customers will end up buying more PDFs than they do now - that will mean more profit. The tipping point will be when the latter group is substantially larger than the former.

It won’t be a slur against anyone’s loyalty. It will be a business decision.

The early access won’t happen as long as retail stores are a significant distribution network.

The early access won’t happen as long as retail stores are a significant distribution network.

I'm actually kind of curious what the numbers are on this now? I have friends all over the country, and we've noticed most stores aren't carrying anything but MAYBE the latest 5E. Most of the floorspace is dedicated to CCGs, accessories, and board games. At my LGS, they had a whole set-up for Cyberpunk Red minis and dice and playmats... and not a single book. And I'd gone in there specifically to buy the book, since I already had the PDF.

Are there oases of LGS that still carry variety of TTRPGs out there that I'm unaware of? TBH, I can't even slam the stores, since I'm sure CCGs pull in way more money over time. I saw it when I worked at a retail WotC store. Pokemon and Magic paid the bills.

(Note: I fully believe that if Paizo thought switching strategies worked for them, they would, so this isn't any shade on them. I'm actually pretty pleased with the way subscriptions are done)

There are a variety of stores that cater to a variety of interests. Every store I've been by has had Pathfinder/Starfinder, from just a couple of books around their release dates, to basically everything. The last physical product I picked up was the Twilight 2000 box set from a store in fact. I didn't even really want it (I don't think there's a huge overlap between Starfinder and Red Dawn in my group), I just snapped it up as an eye-catcher.

I've never seen a place that stocks exclusively 5e, and if I did I wouldn't go back there.

One of my best memories was the owner of a smaller store coming by and showing me Fat Goblin Games' conversion of Pathfinder demons/devils to Starfinder and recommending I buy it. It's still useful today (though I hope that I get a legit Barbazu soon!)

Plus, if I bought a PDF, I can use that to get a discount on its official Foundry module (if one exists)

This is a compelling argument in favor of giving print books the same discount, not necessarily in making a PDF subscription.

I suspect if there ever is a PDF-sub only option it will be just as expensive as print.

Here in the UK, GAME and Waterstones are the only two brick-and-mortar stores I have seen selling physical RPG products in the last few years. They both sell D&D5e books, and I saw the WFRP (4th edition) starter box in GAME the last time I was in there. GAME also sells dice. I have only once seen an actual Pathfinder book in the wild, maybe ten years ago in a grungy little shop in Birmingham, which I never went back to cos' it was kinda' grim in there, which has subsequently closed down.

Maybe it is different in the Colonies? Northern America is defo Paizo's stomping ground, so perhaps they get a bit more shelf space stateside.

Some 80% of Paizo sales is the US.

It’s not a value judgement as to which kind of customer they prefer.

When pdf subscriptions come in, some customers will drop their print subscriptions. That means less sales, smaller print runs, higher per unit costs and less profit.

Some customers will end up buying more PDFs than they do now - that will mean more profit. The tipping point will be when the latter group is substantially larger than the former.

It won’t be a slur against anyone’s loyalty. It will be a business decision.

I am not sure why customers who have print subscriptions now would drop them if there were pdf subscriptions.

You could even make the pdf subscriptions available only at street date, which would keep potential early access the specific benefit of print subscriptions.

Steve Geddes wrote:

It’s not a value judgement as to which kind of customer they prefer.

When pdf subscriptions come in, some customers will drop their print subscriptions. That means less sales, smaller print runs, higher per unit costs and less profit.

Some customers will end up buying more PDFs than they do now - that will mean more profit. The tipping point will be when the latter group is substantially larger than the former.

It won’t be a slur against anyone’s loyalty. It will be a business decision.

I am not sure why customers who have print subscriptions now would drop them if there were pdf subscriptions.

You could even make the pdf subscriptions available only at street date, which would keep potential early access the specific benefit of print subscriptions.

I’m not sure why either, but when it comes up, some subscribers say they’d prefer a pdf only option.

I suspect when PDF subs happen, it will be streetdate and that will mean they’ll have a way of delaying PDFs until then for everyone (which is what they would have done if it had been possible initially)

If the current situation with print subs getting free pdfs and "Paizo Advantage" continued along with pdf subs, I would not change any of my subs -- and I subscribe to most lines. At least not until I run out of room in this place.

I like pawns. I haven't gone to VTT (yet) so VTT tokens don't pique my interest at the moment. But I'm considering it. I cancelled my Battles sub for two reasons: can no longer afford it, and I don't have space for more cases of minis. Still, in a face to face game, they are certainly impressive, especially something like a dragon. I don't think I'd have cancelled my pawns sub even if I moved completely to VTT and had plenty of tokens for that.

(I don’t really understand the pdf-buyer, so that isn’t my observation/theory. It’s just what Paizo have said they hear every time the possibility is raised. My last conversation about it was years ago though, so who knows how things have changed..).

Given the current spiralling shipping costs for international customers, my opinion is that Paizo should reconsider the idea of PDF only subscriptions. Even if they had no discount and came out on the public release day, the sheer convenience of getting everything I want in PDF without having to go through multiple pages and individually order everything I want would be a godsend.

I'm already basically doubling my base costs on just shipping for the two print subscriptions I retain, and have watched the exchange rates drop, coming close to tripling my overall costs for the same print content over what they were before the pandemic, so I'm not resubscribing to anything else print any time in the forseeable future.