I'm getting ready to GM 5-08, and I'm trying to figure out where I can find the battle-mat which is used for "C. The Final Exam"? It's not labeled, and I can't seem to find it anywhere. I suppose in theory I could just use the image from the scenario, but that seems optimal since it's got "non-terrain" markings on it.
You might be able to use a PDF extractor of some sort to grab just the map, without those markings, if they haven't flattened the image. At least on newer scenarios that works, but I have no recollection if that worked for this old scenarios.
Ye, for Society play, you really need to plan your character being self-sufficient, so the odds of someone using a shield but not being able to repair it is really low - after all, what would they do if they went into a scenario where nobody in the party knew how to repair shields?
You also can't craft items for other players, unless you consistently play with the same person every time, and you craft items just so you can lend them out to that person during sessions, since wealth transfer isn't allowed.
Crafting skill checks definitely do come up, though.
Is the exemplar class allowed in Pathfinder Society? The boon text I can see says "exemplar multiclass archetype" which to me implies archetype rather than class
Aren't they the exact same weapon? Both are 1d6 bludgeoning martial clubs with L bulk, 1 hand, shove, thrown 30ft, and the grippli/tripkee trait? Why change it anyway?
By default, there's no rules for "just changing one weapon to another".
However, if you're still level 1, you can sell back equipment at the original price, and then buy the new weapon, effectively losing nothing.
If your first chronicle sheet was received before... November 15th last year I think, you have one use of the remaster rebuild for the character. As part of that rebuild, you may sell back equipment at full price, and then purchase a new weapon, effectively switching it out for free.
Both of those options do require that you have some sort of character rebuild available, though - either lvl 1 or remaster rebuild. Outside of those, there's no special rule allowing switching weapons (other than transfering runes at that 10% gp price), although in this case as the weapons are literally identical, I doubt anyone will mind if you just call your rungu a Cruuk instead. Technically speaking though, they are two different weapons because they have different names.
There was a thread not that long ago that had ideas about crafters being able to trade or sell items to other characters, if you want to take a look at the discussion. It's not really feasible, as it'll be a wealth transfer one way or another, not to mention that it would be either extremely easy to abuse or a horrible burden on bookkeeping.
Most importantly:
If you ever feel that crafting was a poor choice, remember that you can always retrain the feats and skill increases you chose, with 7 days of downtime per feat/skill increase.
Second: A lot of players/characters skil earn income rolls, because the reward is basically pocket change. Crafting has a tiny advantage over earn income: your earnings are calculated based on your level, not your level -2, and the DC is based on the level of the item you're making. You'll get best results if you figure out [a consumable] that your build constantly uses anyway, and you can keep crafting it day after day. That allows you to make the crafting check versus a low DC while earning more than your earn income peers per day of downtime.
To really benefit from crafting, requires spending considerable IRL time on optimising your downtime. For many, it's just not worth the hassle. For those who really dedicate the time to figure out the options, you can get results such as: Rolling DC 15 as a level 4 character with +14 on the skill, critting on 11+, and (effectively) making 1gp per day spent (8gp for the downtime of a scenario). At level 4, you can get 64gp from the scenario, so 8gp extra is 12,5% increase in your earnings. A regular earn income check (DC 16, but your skill and bonuses probably aren't maxed) from the same time is 2,4gp (or 4gp if you crit), so you're earning more than triple (or double) extra compared to them.
One issue is that the best items to craft are: Expensive, lower than your level items that you don't need right now, but those aren't super common in the end (which is why I recommend consumables instead)
can I still use the Career Change boon to quickly retrain feats and such without having to switch to the remaster chassis and lose the School benefits?
"Such characters retain their school lore unless and until rebuilt under Remaster rules." and "Legacy characters who are rebuilt under Remaster rules must remove any bonus lore and feat earned from Pathfinder Training."
-> If you aren't using the remaster rebuild (but are instead using some other rebuild or retraining) you retain the old school benefits.
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will we get a refund
Traditionally, the answer has been that No, there's not a refund - your acp got you the option to play the ancestry/heritage early. However, other ancestries and heritages that were changed to common/always available got an updated text in the boon, giving them a free resurrection, so you probably get a free resurrection too.
(Free feat seems unlikely, but then again, the only one that lost anything was ganzi - previously, they gained that random resistance instead of LLV->DV upgrade like other planar scions, now they get the vision upgrade like everybody else and need to spend a feat for the resistance. Aphorite previously got the same Low Light Vision, so your Nephilim "aphorite" lost nothing compared to your old Aphorite and doesn't need a free feat to be exactly identical to the old version. If you check how tiefling/aasimar was handled when nephilim got reprinted, the character options state that nephilims get to choose either aasimar or tiefling, and they count all old aasimar OR tiefling feats as having the nephilim trait, or vice versa. I expect the same to happen with aphorite and ganzi, meaning that your nephilim can still select aphorite feats as you previously could.)
It would be cool if nephilim had the option to take a free lineage feat INSTEAD of gaining the vision upgrade, though! Would also make them more appealing for ancestries that already have dark vision...
The (other) enemy has Retributive strike but no champion's aura, and retributive strike refers to the aura to determine the range.
I'd ignore the prerequisite of having used twin parry. The enemies were given these reactions for a reason, and to me it seems clear that they are supposed to be able to use the reactions too, so I'd just let them twin riposte as a reaction if someone critically misses them.
"As a reward, the NPC gifts players [an uncommon weapon] at the end of the scenario."
However, chronicle sheet does not list said weapon.
To me, this seems like an obvious error: There is no point in handing the players a weapon, then taking it away immediately, and not giving access to it on the chronicle sheet. However, messing with the chronicle sheet seems extremely dubious.
Would this be considered an obvious error that a GM would be free to correct, adding it to the chronicle sheet's list of items unlocked?
example, 6-03:
Bloodletting Kukri (uncommon, lvl 5, GMC) is given to the PCs a moment before the end of the scenario, yet isn't on the chronicle sheet. It's accessible through other scenarios, so it clearly isn't a case of "we don't want players to get access to this weapon".
To emphasise, I don't really care about this specific example (despite having asked it elsewhere too) specifically - I just think it's an excellent example of a situation where 'an obvious error' might not actually be one.
Run combat encounters without deliberately increasing difficulty
seems to imply that a GM may deliberately lower difficulty of encounters. Is this correct? Is the intent that a GM may add Weak template on some enemies or maybe even reduce the numbers of enemy creatures in encounters?
It's clear that GMs always have the ability influence the difficulty of an encounter by running enemies more smartly or having them make tactical mistakes, but the old version explicitly called out changing encounters as a no-no, while the new text seems imply "Please don't make stuff harder, but feel free to make it easier if that's good for the table".
If that's not the intent, then wording should probably be "run combat encounters without deliberately changing difficulty"
For my own pathfinder agent, I record the exact creatures, but I mention it (and throw the list) to the GM before the game/at the start, and mention that it's unclear what the type should mean - they get to make the judgement on when it applies and when it doesn't.
What Pirate Rob said. The DC really should be there (somewhere), we do not have any kind of official guidance or rules for "skill checks without a listed DC".
Note that for many skill challenges with multiple parts, the format could be something like following:
"Escape from the dinosaurs! (moderate 3)"
[blah blah blah explanation of what's happening]
the DC's are 17 for the lore, 19 for the other skills (or 19 and 21 for high tier).
Dodge the boulders!
Suddenly, boulders drop from above. PCs can dodge with underground lore, athletics, acrobatics or reflex save"
Avoid the nosesaurus!
PCs can hide from the creature with animal or dinosaur lore, stealth, or nature
Oh no, planar rift!
Magical rift opens up, PCs can counteract it with any planar lore, arcana, occultism"
and so on, where the DCs are listed in the main body of the text, not in individual challenges.
In some scenarios (multitable specials especially) there could be a sidebar at the beginning giving you a table of DCs per each different level range, and then just saying "Hard DC, Medium DC, Easy DC" and you use the DC the table gave for your party's tier.
EDIT:
Specifically, if this is regarding Foundation's Price you're running, I think the DC you might be looking for on the bottom left side of page 7, while the skills&challenges are described starting at top of page 7.
(I just noticed you posted there, didn't check which part of the adventure you were in)
Would it be possible to buy the Parrying Scabbard and say the sheathe of the sword cane is the parrying scabbard for society play?
Yes, that's exactly the purpose of the parrying scabbard.
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Curious if this could work and allow the sword cane's flavor of concealment to still work while paying for the parry trait with the Scabbard.
Probably. I imagine that most society GMs would let it work. Some might argue that the scabbard is obviously reinforced and thus the benefit might not apply.
Technically speaking, you should still receive the +2 to hide the sword, but onlookers might notice that the scabbard is weird, as the scabbard doesn't have any bonus to hide it's true nature.
That being said, I don't think that's ever going to come up. It's exceedingly rare for scenarios to throw you into situations where you need to pretend you don't have weapons, and when they do, do you really want to take the risk even with a +2 to smuggle a weapon through instead of actually arriving unarmed? And if you do want to risk it, you can probably just ditch the scabbard if GM argues that it doesn't work, maybe buy yourself a buckler just in case for that occasion. Also, it's kinda typical for people to walk around with their weapons drawn when they expect danger, in which case neither the concealed trait nor the "can draw scabbard when you draw the weapon" seem that relevant.
Does anyone know if champions can take the obedience cause and touch of the void devotion spell? This is for a potential character I want to spin up
Yes and yes.
To help you navigate character options in the future, is there a specific reason why you're unsure if either are allowed?
To expand on this: character option page says that all options in PC2 are standard unless otherwise noted, and both of those are among common options, and neither requires sanctioning to unholy (which is specifically illegal).
Ye, notice how both of them refer to Starfinder Galaxy Guide, a product that does not yet exist? (as far as I know)
You'll have to wait until it gets published to get the rules for those ancestries.
It's probably the equivalent of "Lost Omens World Guide" but for SF2e instead of PF2e.
There's nothing saying that you must use official art, and indeed in meatspace games you might not even have tokens with appropriate art, but rather a random assortment of miniatures or just generic markers etc.
I'd avoid purposefully using misleading art, tho - for example, if the players are faced with lizardfolks, you wouldn't want to use zombies or skeletons.
Personally, I think the token art should be as representative as the description you're giving them, but not much else. If the players want to know whether that's a lizardfolk or a serpent folk or a nagaji (or just a very large kobold) (Or a werecrocodile), they get to roll a recall knowledge for it. This is especially true with undead, unless they are specifically described in a clearly identifiable way: if it's just a pile of bones animating, then sure, it's a skeleton (probably). But if you check the art for a skeleton champion and say, draugr, they look very similar and could easily be mistaken for one another. And if the skeleton has even a bit more armor or a closed helmet, it's no longer immediately recognizeable as a skeleton guard.
This ties a bit into a somewhat popular discussion about "if we're facing a skeleton / zombie, is it metagaming to know that bludgeoning / slashing works against each?" to which my answer is that you typically shouldn't know you're facing a skeleton/zombie without an RK check. You can definitely gamble that it's a skeleton/zombie, but it could just as well be draugr or a flesh golem, or possibly a Morhg, ghoul or a wight.
Specifically, on the product page here, check the greyish box that's located between the video and the VTT links that says:
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The adventure in the Pathfinder Beginner Box, "Menace Under Otari," is sanctioned for use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. The rules for running this Adventure and Chronicle sheet are available as a free download.
, it includes a link to the sanctioning document which includes the chronicle sheets.
Your doctrine is a selectable class feature, so it takes 28 days to retrain.
Depending on what you want from warpriest, it might be easier to just pick up an archetype or feat for the survivability (I assume armor proficiency) as feats take just 7 days to retrain.
Can you elaborate a bit on what leads you to this conclusion, that they've become illegal?
I went through character options page and the guide, and I searched through PC1, PC2, and GMC and I can't find anything stating that azlanti language or lore has been made illegal, restricted, nor limited. (And AoN still lists it as Regional language.)
On that note, of the 4 scenarios in year 3 that mention azlanti, none of them actually require it - they all have easily accessible and common alternatives, with one even having an NPC that will translate for you.
If you wish, you can email Alex to refund the boon - that is explicitly part of the remaster rebuilding rules
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If, in the course of this rebuild, you wish to refund any purchased boons, please email orgplayreportingerrors@paizo.com with your character’s name, Organized Play ID and character number, and the boon(s) you would like to refund.
I think the intent is that if you don't intend to use the ancestry anymore, you can ask for a refund (like if it no longer works with your build, or it thematically doesn't fit what the new, rebuild character is going for) - I don't think it's meant for "oh this ancestry is now free, I guess I could take the refund while keeping the heritage!" but technically speaking the rebuild rules don't make any notion as to *why* you want the refund, it just says you can ask for it if you wish.
If you're an awakened flying animal, I don't think you need to take ganzi and vestigial wings to get Winged warrior: You're literally an animal that can fly and that definitely comes with wings.
If you're worried about a GM saying that nothing technically says you have wings, you can use your awakened animal heritage to pick WING as your animal attack - then you also have a clear mechanic that says you have wing(s).
PFS requires that in order to take winged warrior, your wings must be mechanically supported by an ancestry, heritage, or other feat - given that flying animals explicitly learn to fly later through feats, the heritage should qualify for it.
That being said, the winged warrior says that "Any fly Speed granted by ancestry feats..." and since you currently do not have a fly speed granted by your ancestry feats, it does not increase by 5ft. If you pick up Take Flight (lvl 1 feat), that 15ft speed would increase to 20ft, though you fall after each move if you don't end up on solid ground.
Completely dependent on the character and their needs. Typically, I don't think any region actually gives anything signignificant unless you have a specific build that needs a specific item/weapon/archetype.
However, the most widely useful are: The regions from Guns&Gear sanctioning, as they give you access to a variety of firearms, and the new tian xia character guide seems to have a lot of options given access by being from tian xia.
I'm like 60-70% sure this functionality existed. I'm not sure if it only exists for some scenarios, or if I've just dreamed about this existing (rpgchronicles automatically checking the boxes on the chronicle sheet) or if I missed something just now when I tried it with 4-14, but nope, it did not fill in the checkboxes.
EDIT:
No, wait, it definitely does! It works with quest Quest 19, for example.
Players have filled their details on step 1, you fill in the scenario TBs etc on step 2, you move on to step 3, insert chronicle code, save information, and return to step 2: New field appears that has the scenario recap text (heavily edited to avoid spoilers;)
Spoiler:
You dealt with the capricious whims of a ........, and were able to ....... with [] the ..... ...... (name), []the .... (name) [] no one else.
You can then check those boxes, return to page 3, and then download the scenarios with the boxes already checked.
No idea why this didn't work for 4-14 for me earlier.
The A, B, C, D check boxes are on the second page before yiu enter the scenario code on the third page.
I don't mean those, I mean the tiny boxes on the chronicle sheet's recap page "And so you went down the path of []red light, [] blue light, []neither, where you faced []dragon, []werewolf, []a hag", they don't appear until you've filled out the chronicle code on page 3 and returned to page 2. if you don't return, you'll need to manually edit the PDFs after you've downloaded them, to make the correct notes on the chronicle sheets before sending them to your players.
I'm just saying that functionality isn't clearly instructed on the webpage.
What software are you using to handle the pdf?
For me, adobe Acrobat (free, not paid) allows to mark and sign the pdf and then print it as pdf just fine, as does opening it in edge, firefox, or chrome (I'm not sure if any of those are using some sort of extension?)
In either case, I really recommend giving rpgchronicles a try.
As others have explained, there's no need for an account - signing up to your game on rpg chronicles is just as easy for the players as it would be on any other platform, such as google sheets or where ever you may want their details to. Just throw them the link, they click it, they fill in their details.
It also automatically calculates the challenge points for you, and creates the chronicle sheets. There's a minor issue that isn't immediately apparent: If I recall, it doesn't check the boxes for "and you befriended/killed/let the BBEG go free" checboxes, unless you go to the end, insert the chronicle code, and then go one step back again to select the checkmarks.
Honestly, filling in the chronicle sheets is such a chore, and rpgchronicles is such a huge QoL boost to that.
It's a bit of a corner case, but given the guide text (emphasis is mine):
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Players can also use the Second Chance AcP Boon (to clear death) or the Pathfinder Condition Removal AcP Boon (to clear all other conditions.) When it is not feasible to purchase these Boons immediately after the game, GMs are encouraged to work with players to ensure that the Boon is purchased in as timely a fashion as possible, and not immediately mark the character “dead” as above.
I think it might not be wholly intended by the earlier text, but I still think it would be fine, to have the GM report the game and the character purchasing the second chance immediately afterwards. It would be weird to have a character die permanently in a scenario that results in you having enough acp for a resurrection.
It's true that demiplane has the rules, but it's not an official rules source - strictly speaking, to use the core assumption material, you need to reference AoN if you don't own the the actual book/PDF.
Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that a GM should deny player from using demiplane as a rules reference while we wait for AoN to update: If a player shows up with PC2 content that's up on demiplane, I'd encourage the GM to accept that instead of arguing about whether or not the player can use PC2 stuff that's technically now mandatory. Instead, I'm saying that since demiplane isn't the official and accepted rules reference, a GM shouldn't force a player to use it to update their character to PC2 if the player hasn't done that yet.
We're currently in a sort of limbo where we should be using PC2 and it's the core assumption, but the rules aren't yet available on the official PRD (AoN) so I'd advocate for GMs to let players use what they currently have, and leave worrying about updating the characters to when the rules are officially available.
Everything (aside from actual class chassis) that was reprinted with the same name, is treated like an errata, and applies immediately. This includes feats and items, but also (as far as I'm aware) bloodlines, oracle mysteries, etc. Basically all character options. Would be next to impossible to list all of the changes.
Yes, technically those changes became mandatory on 12th this month, but as you said, player core 2 isn't up on the Archives of Nethys yet. It's probably best to keep using what you had as they are, until AoN is updated or until you get the book and can actually check the rules. After all, it would be problematic if a player shows up to a game, claims that their class abilities/feats now work differently because of the reprinted new version being different, but then doesn't have access to aon or the book to actually show the new wording of the ability.
I can see why it looks like it is, but it's not actually 'limited'.
Nothing anywhere in character options page says it's limited, because options from adventures aren't sanctioned that way: Only stuff from rulebooks and lost omens books are 'standard', 'limited' or restricted. To use those options you need to buy the book (and meet access/prerequisite requirements). Paizo probably doesn't want people to buy single copies of adventures just to gain some character options though, for reasons I'll explain in the spoiler below - so instead of making a purchase, you need to play it.
Why does it appear on AoN as Limited, then?
Good question. That's just how AoN let's you know that an option from an adventure appears on a chronicle sheet / achievement point boon. It's their way of being helpful and showing that "this thing that you normally can't access, because it's not from a rulebook or lore book, is found somewhere else".
In short, that's just how character options work in PFS. Buy the book, or play the adventure. Nothing about deckhand is special in that regard, it's just not a standard option that's always available because it's not from a published rulebook.
Spoiler:
The problem here is, that stuff that come from adventure paths, adventures, or scenarios aren't added to the characteroptions page. Those books aren't added to the list of avaible stuff you could choose from like the rulebook line and the lost omens book lines are.
Reason for that is, that in PFS1e, they were added to character options. However, you need to own the books you use, so you had to buy the adventure. For one-off adventures, this wasn't such an issue - but there were cases where part 3 of an AP was sold out because it had amazing character options, but there was an excess of parts 1, 2, 4, 5, and 6 unsold, because who would want to buy an AP but miss the middle part?
Probably partially to combat this, PFS2e no longer requires people to own an adventure to use stuff from it - you just need the chronicle sheet (so, you need to have played it or GM'd it) to use selected and approved options from it.
Personally, I think this works great. Firstly, people who play APs and adventures are kinda given a little something extra: "Hey, since we played this adventure, if you want to try out organized play, your character can start at level 2 and has access to cool stuff that's normally off limit." On the other hand, it encourages Society players to play other adventures too (and thus encourages their sale) (but without the need for every single player to buy the book).
So, it's not that it's actually limited; it's just that that's the way *all* adventure related options work: Play the adventure, get access to the option - while rulebook and lost omens require "buy the book, get the options".
It would depend on "what counts as religion"? Had it said "follower of a specific deity" then it would disqualify you from godless healing, but gods & magic p. 92, "philosophies and spirituality" says:
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The following pages present examples of the diverse religious and philosophical practices of the Inner Sea region.
It then goes on to list various pantheons, esoteric order of the palatine eye, god calling (definitely a religion), Green faith (also clearly a religion), Laws of Mortality, Prophecies of Kalistrade, Sangpotshi, Shoanti Animism, and atheism.
Are all of these religions? Is Laws of Mortality a religion in itself? If yes, then you could very well choose laws of mortality (or other deity-less religion) to follow and fill both prerequisites - not having a patron deity, yet following a religion.
If you're still level 1 or if you have the remaster rebuild (or are willing to purchase a rebuild), pick up the 1st level feat, Quadruped. You and your mount could be a single unit, so thematically you'd be riding, while mechanically you just have a better movement speed.
If you pick the first level champion feat, Faithful steed, you can select Legchair (grand bazaar) as your steed. Technically it says that
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Your companion is a strange creature, akin to a chair with bestial legs.
but nobody would probably mind if those legs stand on the slides of the rocking horse, at least it's closer to what you're looking for than a horse.
Anyway, I don't recommend trying to reskin an actual horse/animal to a rocking horse, because rocking horse sounds like a construct/mindless creature, and it would be pretty misleading for the rest of the party and GM as to what your mount actually is.
Some options (such as draconic barbarians and sorcerers or the dragonblooded versatile heritage) require or allow players to pick a specific type of dragon, which affects spellcasting traditions, skill training, and similar choices. Players may use the options as listed in Player Core 2, or select a dragon from the Imperial or Primal dragon families using the Draconic Options Table below.
Characters which have been rebuilt using their Remaster Rebuild may not use the chromatic or metallic dragons for any of these options.
1. So new sorcerers can never choose the dragon bloodline options in Core Rulebook?
Correct, similar to how new wizards can't choose the old spell schools. New character's must use the new version of sorcerer, and the new version of sorcerer does not have those as an option.
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2. Is there a way for new sorcerers to get the old demonic and dragon bloodline focus spells? The ones in Player Core 2 are completely different, and there are character concepts that would prefer to have the unarmed attack spells instead of the new spell attack spells.
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3. If a character option has been reprinted with the same name, use the new version as if it were errata.
Both new versions have new names, so they aren't errata, they are new spells. If you can find a way to gain access to those spells, you can cast them. For Dragon Claws, you can gain those through the wyrmblessed sorcerer bloodline which I think didn't get reprinted yet, it's from the Mwangi Expanse book. For Glutton's Jaw, I don't think there's any way to gain or use it. Both old and new sorcerers use the errata'd version of Demonic Bloodline and it gives Glutton's Jaws instead.
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3. Is there an error with the Crystal Dragon option? Crystal dragons have breath weapons that deal piercing damage, but the crystal dragon bloodline has fire as their damage.
The "Fire" in the guide is likely a copypaste error, as the actual remaster document lists it having burrow speed and piercing damage and the guide is missing burrow and has fire instead.
Having bought some boons with both Playtest Points and AcP, I double-checked and couldn't find any easy information about which ones are advanced boons so maybe have that more clearly marked in the future?
I don't think any of the acp boons are advanced boons, actually. There's only a few, I can recall... Three from the top of my head, all of them from year 1 scenarios. Not sure if there's been any others since year 1.
They are pretty clearly marked. The text looks like this (with ... being omitted parts I left out due to spoilers)
Spoiler:
Convention Hero (Advanced): ... You can slot this special boon only while playing a game at a convention. If you do, you...
Yes, similar to how old oracles are now kinda hosed as their mysteries are written with the same names, so they are erratas, and are automatically updated, but the class chassis does not update without spending a rebuild, and the two do not mesh together.
It's just the class chassis that stays the same if you don't remaster.
"If a character option has been reprinted with the same name, use the new version as if it were errata. " -> this applies to the sub class choices such as rogue rackets, sorcerer bloodlines, and oracle mysteries.
Are we to treat Glutton's Jaw (Player Core 2) as an errata for Glutton's Jaws (Core Rulebook)?
By the strict reading of "what is errata" it's a new spell as the name is different. (The spells themselves are rather different too, but they are both the Rank 1 Demonic bloodline spell.)
(you have them the wrong way around, old one was Jaw, PC2 is Jaws)
Technically they are a different spell. However, it doesn't matter because the new Demonic Bloodline itself is an errata and a demonic sorcerer has to use the new version of the bloodline, regardless of whether they rebuild or not, so the old demonic sorcerer no longer has Glutton's Jaw, they now have the new Glutton's Jaws.
I imagine the intent would be that you dedicate one of your summoner spell slots, but technically speaking the feat doesn't restrict your choice.
Choosing a wizard slot for it would probably not be advised, though. That's a sixth level feat. Your wizard dedication would grant you (with basic spellcasting benefit) second rank spells. Second rank summon spell summons a first level creature. That's 5 levels below yours. At level 8, you can cast 3rd rank spells, so that's level 2 creature, 6 levels below you. Next boost would be at level 12, casting rank 4 spell, for a 3rd level creature - 9 levels below you.
Even if it's probably not the intent, it seems pretty safe to allow a character to split their archetype slots for summon spells - summons are already way below you in terms of power, and this makes them even weaker.
And that's the benefit and drawback of crafting. Earn income from the same duration (3x level 1 scenarios, 3x level 2 scenarios, 1x level 3 scenarios) would have been 4gp in total, ASSUMING that you succeed on all 7 rolls (so probably a bit less). Crafting discount was 16,4gp - 12,4gp more -, and you only needed to succeed on a single roll - but you had to wait 7 scenarios (even though you spent 17,5gp immediately) to get the discount while earn income got it gradually and you got the item later than where it was first possible, meaning you had to play several adventures without it's help.
Trading would completely bypass this balancing benefit/drawback, letting some other (probably never actually getting played character) suffer the drawbacks, while letting your actually played character enjoy the benefits, in advance.
Agree with what Kyrand said, and that's just assuming that everybody is using this system fairly - it would be extremely easy to abuse:
Player 1: 15gp to start. Plays two games, 14gp per game in gold rewards. Has now 43gp. Purchases a +1 sword (35gp), armor (3gp), Adventurer's pack (1,5gp), and a minor elixir of life (3,5gp), has 0,5gp left, plus two scenarios worth of earn income (0,8gp) ) 1,3gp left
Player 2: Decides to trade between his own characters (or if that is explicitly banned, with the characters of his friends who are in on this)
15gp to start. Plays 1 game, has 29gp. Buys a +1 sword from 'a crafter friend', 17,5gp, and an armor at 1,5gp. Maybe they'll buy the adventurer's pack at book price cause it includes lots of items, 1,5gp. They have 8,5gp left, plus earn income from one adventure, 0,4gp, total 8,9gp. They could buy Almost 3 minor elixirs, or almost 6 if they bought them from their 'crafter friends. They'd have 5 consumables - 15gp worth - more than player 1's character, despite having earned 14 gold less from adventures.
Percentually, that's a huge difference in the assumed wealth.
One big issue is that when player 1 sits down at a table and GM goes "Oh, your level 1 character already has a +1 sword? Doable, but just to double check, let's see your chronicle sheets and list of purchases" it's easy to verify that the player's bookkeeping checks out.
For player two? How could the GM possibly verify that the character who sold the sword at 50% actually exists? Or that they didn't sell the sword multiple times to different players? Or that even if the characters do exist, that they are actual characters that actually get played, and not just a friend's agreement to "Ye I'll create a crafter for you and you create a crafter for me and we both get our weapons at half price" agreement?
You keep saying that there's no wealth transfer and that character's wouldn't be 'giving' each other things - But as you can see, there clearly is wealth transfer, and it creates an inequality. Player 1 did not do get transferred wealth, player 2 got 3 other characters' downtimes worth of gold transferred to them. Not directly, but that's the end result.
There's also the argument that "they could have crafted it themself" - no, they could not have. Player 2's character could have started crafting the sword, but it would have cost them 17,5gp to do so. Assuming they rolled success (DC 16, their bonus is between 1 and 6, so at best 50% chance):
After the first 2 days, at level 1, they get 2 sp per day spent as a discount. So after the first game, they've spent 6 days crafting for 1,2gp discount.
As they paid 17,5gp, the remaining balance on the sword is 17,5-1,2=16,3gp - They could not finish the crafting even if they wanted, because they could not afford to pay the remaining balance as they only have 29-17,5=11,5gp left.
Indeed, they could keep crafting the sword during the next downtime too (8x0,2=1,6gp) and another adventure (1,6gp).
That's 3 adventures, so they get a level up, but keep crafting because they really want that 50% discount:
Another adventure (this time at level 2) 8x0,3gp = 2,4gp.
Second adventure at level 2, another 2,4gp.
Third adventure at level 2, 2,4gp.
That's another 3 adventures, another level up. The character is now level 3. Crafting now gives 0,5gp per day.
One more adventure, this time at level 3: 4gp from crafting:
The character has now earned a total discount of 16,4gp, out of 17,5gp. They've spent 17,5gp, total of SEVEN adventure's worth of downtime, and they haven't yet finished the craft. They could spend the difference, 1,1gp to finish it immediately (for a total cost of 18,6gp for the sword) but at this point, they've done their entire level 2 + 2 additional adventures without a +1 sword, compared to the player 1's character who just bought the sword after 2 adventures.
It's highly unlikely or near impossible that Organized Play would allow trading between players. Some reasons:
1. the bookkeeping would be absolutely a nightmare, and would be basically impossible for a GM/VO to verify when auditing a character. How would you verify that the crafter A really spent the downtime to craft the item character B bought?
2. At what price would the crafter sell the item to the other PC? If it's at the cost the crafter spent (pay 50%, craft for the 50% discount), you would be effectively transfering wealth to the buyer, as they are getting a 1000gp item by paying just 500gp.
If it's at the regular cost of the item, then the buyer isn't getting anything out of it - they could have just bought the item regularly for the same price - but the crafter is essentially getting extra gold. Crafting as a downtime activity 'earns' better than earn income because it's always just a discount and you can't turn it into actual gold, but with this method you could. Either method results in someone having more gold at their disposal than they should have. At best, it would give the buyer double the downtime - their own, plus someone else crafting, and at worst, it would give permanent 50% discount to all items for some characters.
2.5. Your argument that "it's as if they crafted it themselves" is not true - the buyer didn't invest skill increases or feats or equipment or downtime into crafting. You could have a dedicated crafter for a single of your own/friends PC, and effectively double their wealth by just having the crafter PC craft and sell everything to them at 50% the cost of what it would regularly cost.
3. Some items are, by their nature, 'limited'. You can only get access through a chronicle sheet to some uncommon/rare items - and those items are a reward for playing that adventure. Thus, only 2 (or 3, with a replay) of your characters can ever get their hands on that piece of equipment. Allowing a crafter to sell it to whoever would break this 'reward' and 'limit', as suddenly the rare limited item is at everyone's disposal.
3.5. Tracking access would be impossible too. "Oh I bought this [unique item] from player A's crafter." "Oh, yeah, I crafted that, I'm player A. yeah I bought my own copy of the item from some crafter at a convention 6 months ago. Yeah I think they said they bought it from someone else. Yeah sorry I have no idea where the original copy came from, I just assume there's an adventure/charity boon/AcP boon somewhere that gives you access to this."
OR you'd have to share copies of chronicle sheets for items when you sell them, which circles back to point 1 - bookkeeping horror.
In short, the system would be just ripe for abuse and cheating, and even with strict oversight it would create uneven playing field where some characters gain way more than others.
tl;dr it's just not necessary. You can buy all the equipment you want, at the regular price, except for the items that you aren't supposed to be able to buy. PC crafters would either mess with the regular price, or the restrictive rarity on some items.
... The only sensible way to implement this would be:
Buyer has to also have access to the item or they can't buy it
Buyer spends gold equal to the printed cost of the item
Crafter receives gold equal to the gold they spent, not for any discount they got through crafting (so typically 50% of the gold)
But at that point, there would be literally no point for these rules, as nobody gains any sort of benefit and the crafter just loses their downtime, effectively, so why bother.
It’s available for all classes, just not for characters created after November 15th, 2023. I think in other threads you established that you group was good, because the characters had credits from before then.
The current guidance is that no character that did not have at least 1XP before November 15th, 2023 gets the rebuild, regardless of class. Some of us would like to see that amended at least for Alchemists and Oracles, as those characters potentially become unplayable if they don’t rebuild.
I support you in your endeavors.
It feels like you two are talking past each other.
Ravindork is correct in that all characters did get a free rebuild.
However, as Ravindork quoted and what I think Ferious Thune is trying to say, is that this only applies:
Quote:
On November 15, 2023, all characters with at least one game reported were granted one free rebuild.
Thus, only "old" characters gained that rebuild. If you your character had 0 games reported on nov 15th, but then played a game on january 1st of 2024, they would not be eligile for a free rebuild, because they missed the original deadline for the rebuild.
It doesn't matter what the character class is - if they were created a week or month or 6 months ago, they don't have a free rebuild.
The point is that old characters got a rebuild to transition into the new remaster versions of classes, while new characters - those created after the deadline - do not get a rebuild, because they don't need a rebuild, because they can already build using the new classes.
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Now, the gripe everyone is having is that this system does not take into account characters that were created after 15th of november, but using classes that did not yet get reprinted before PC2. If you're one of the folks who rolled an oracle this year, before PC2, and managed to get 12+ xp and played the character at level 2+, you're stuck with a broken character unless you purchase a separate boon to rebuild the character.
alex wrote:
As stated previously, any characters created after November of 2023 are not granted a free Remaster Rebuild. Characters who wish to rebuild must purchase a boon to do so.
EDIT:
I have to add that I strongly believe this isn't the right way to handle the 'newish' characters.
It is completely arbitrary to tell people that half of their class (mysteries) get automatically updated to the new version regardless of whether they want it or not, and then tell them that the other half of their class (chassis) does not. It accomplishes absolutely nothing.
Either let old oracles use the old versions of their mysteries, or let them update their chassis to the new version for free.
The list of dragons on the document does not list the shapes of the dragon's breath weapons - cone or line (or burst). This would be relevant information for, for example, Kobolds that pick up the Kobold Breath feat.
Are you saying that you want a character (beast-bonded witch) but the character stays behind during adventures, and you're playing just the familiar instead?
So - the GM is wrong on the intent: Your character is completing the adventure, it's just that you're choosing not to use 95% of your character's abilities and are instead using just the familiar. Whether your character is with the party, 30ft behind the party, 120ft behind the party, or just staying home, doesn't really matter.*
However, I'm guessing that the GM isn't really being pedantic about the letter of the rule just because they believe it's RAW - it feels more likely that the GM is opposed to you playing just a familiar, because you are forgoing a lot of your class abilities (including all your spells, and you are A FULL SPELLCASTER) and you are effectively crippling your character for no particular mechanical reason, which will make the scenarios harder for the rest of the party.
Technically speaking, what you're doing isn't *wrong* as far as I know, but it's very questionable.
*For comparison, you could just make the character be the familiar's 'butler' and just stand around during combat, and say that the actual witch is staying home. Same mechanical result, different flavor. Problem isn't whether it's technically legal or not, problem is that it's problematic for the table.
Player Core 2 releases on August 1, bringing eight more Remastered classes into play: alchemist, barbarian, champion, investigator, monk, oracle, sorcerer, and swashbuckler.
...
- As stated previously, any characters created after November of 2023 are not granted a free Remaster Rebuild. Characters who wish to rebuild must purchase a boon to do so.
Quote:
Oracles
Because they share the same name, all Oracle mysteries are automatically updated to use the new Cursebound condition. As such, oracles gain no benefit from choosing not to use their Remaster Rebuild immediately and are strongly encouraged to do so.
There is a [non-zero amount] of characters that were created after the rebuild cut-off date, that are using classes reprinted in PC2 - such as an oracle that had their first game 3 months ago.
They do not qualify for a rebuild, yet they are strongly encouraged to do so, and a lot of their things could break with this update.
Are the only solutions really to either buy a rebuild boon or throw the character away?
Could a class chassis maybe qualify as a "selectable class feature" for the purposes of retraining it? This would allow oracles (and others) retrain from the old version into the new version at the cost of 28 days, if all they want to do is to update the basic chassis?
It's important to note that while they do get "a full turn", they don't get "an additional action/turn" like they did in previous editions. Also, they may win initiative without succeeding in ambushing, or they may lose initiative while still being succesfull in ambushing the PCs:
Let's assume PC has +10 perception, and monster has +10 stealth.
Scenario one:
Monster rolls at least 10 on the dice, PCs roll less than 10. Since monsters initiative (20 or higher) beats the player's perception DC (20) AND it beats their initiative. Monster is undetected and gets to take a full turn because it is now their turn in combat. They probably have a mechanic to benefit from the undetected condition (like ranged sneak attacks or something) but they could just as well stride forward and make two strikes, doesn't really matter - it's a normal combat turn for them. Then, the PC gets to act, also taking a full turn.
Scenario two: Monster rolls 9 (or less) on the dice, PC rolls even lower. Monster still gets to go first (because they won initiative) but since they did not beat the perception DC, they aren't undetected. PC gets to take their turn normally afterwards.
Scenario three: Monster rolls 10+ on initiative, but PC rolls even better.
Monster is still undetected to the PC because they beat PC's perception DC, but PC gets to go first. Since the monster is undetected but NOT unnotice, PC that won initiative knows that someone is around and they get a full normally turn: they can start moving, seeking, casting spells or otherwise preparing for the inevitable attack that is likely to come next. Monster gets to take their full turn afterwards.
As you can see, there is no "surprise round" here. It's just two questions: Did avoid notice beat perception DC? If yes, they start undetected. Who won initiative? They get to go first.
There isn't a specific rule that denies all reactions for surprised characters - it's up for the GM to determine whether you can use reactions or not. For example, some reactions (or free actions, which generally work in a similar way) might have the trigger of "when you roll initiative" and those may or may not work depending on context. If you were using "raise shield" as an exploration activity and had a shield raised, a GM might let you block with the shield because you had it at the ready, or they might not. Alternatively, a GM might let you use the shield block reaction against a fighter that spent 2 actions running towards you and then made a strike, but might prohibit the reaction against a sniper who shot at you while they were undetected and you were off-guard.
There's nothing that would limit or prevent CIRCUMSTANCE bonuses from applying to earn income checks in general. However, some bonuses do not apply to Earn Income actions:
For example, Specialty crafting applies to Crafting checks to CRAFT items of the specified type: Earn Income is a different action/activity, it's not Craft (which is a specific action under the Crafting skill), so it would not benefit an Earn Income check. However, if you had let's say Blacksmithing as your specialty and you spent your downtime to Craft a sword or armor, then the circumstance bonus would apply to your crafting check.
Virtuosic performer on the other hand, applies whenever you're attempting a Performance check. Earn income is specific action under the performance skill - if you were doing an earn income check using performance, you would benefit from virtuosic performance, because it applies to performance checks. Note the difference between the two feats: First one applies a bonus to an action called Craft, while the second applies a bonus Performance checks (regardless of what the underlying action is).
A more common example of this distinction is the feat Acrobatic performer: You can roll an Arcobatics check instead of a Performance check when using the Perform action. It doesn't replace all uses of performance with acrobatics: you couldn't, for example, do earn income with performance and replace the check with acrobatics instead, because the action you're taking would be Earn Income, not Perform.
This issue often pops up with perfromance/perform and crafting/craft because those skills and their respective actions are very similarly named. The difference would be clearer if the actions were called something different, like "act" and "create" instead of perform and craft.
