Kingmaker Update

I don't give a (flying flump in a cloak)* about art, the internet is full of art.

Release pdfs of parts that are developed, which we payed for a year ago.

No way. Businesses that ship products before development is finished either change their ways, or don't stay in business (I used to work for a company like that).

Crowdfunding typically delivers late, that's practically the norm. It sucks, but I want the great game I paid for. I'll wait for as long as it takes. Thanks for keeping us posted.

I have faith that when Paizo puts it out, it'll be a quality product that is worth having. IF that takes a bit longer, shrug. That's what you sign up for with crowdfunding. If you weren't comfortable with that risk, you probably should have just waited to buy it on release.

THANK YOU for your update Mr. Jacobs, I know that this is in good hands! Carry on with your work and it will be done when it is done! Stay safe!

Thanks for the hard work at this amazing campaign! One more year waiting is nothing compared to the final product we'll receive!

Can't wait to fight Stag Lord one more time!

Thank You for the update. Be safe. I’m happy to wait as long as it takes to get the best possible product, which is what you guys always deliver!

Disappointed sure, but this gives me more play to play instead of GM. My group is almost done with Ironfang Invasion and after that I am going to switch over to player for the first time in about 5 years. I plan to resume running again once this is out. So, huzzah for being a player a bit longer.

The upcoming 2nd-edition update is one of the largest single print projects we’ve ever attempted at Paizo, with about a thousand pages represented between the 640 page Adventure Path (compare that to, say, the 432 pages in the Rise of the Runelords hardcover compilation

Damn... that's quite an increase in words. Especially since the original was probably <360-pages of adventure. That's a full 20% increase.

I'd assume it was conversions of monsters, but the first didn't make use of many monster books beyond the first Bestiary and the Tome of Horrors

Quote:

The upcoming 2nd-edition update is one of the largest single print projects we’ve ever attempted at Paizo, with about a thousand pages represented between the 640 page Adventure Path (compare that to, say, the 432 pages in the Rise of the Runelords hardcover compilation

Damn... that's quite an increase in words. Especially since the original was probably <360-pages of adventure. That's a full 20% increase.

I'd assume it was conversions of monsters, but the first didn't make use of many monster books beyond the first Bestiary and the Tome of Horrors

The bulk of the new content in the adventure path consists of four substantial new adventures; a new intro, a new adventure between "Rivers Run Red" and "Varnhold Vanishing", a new adventure between "War of the River Kings" and "Sound of a Thousand Screams," and a new adventure at the end, followed by a MUCH larger and more robust kingdom/settlement/warfare subsystem.

Monster stat blocks take up LESS room in 2nd edition than they did in 1st edition.

Thanks Paizo and teams for taking the time to make kingmaker 2e as awesome as we expect. And James, please do rest and relax. I'm a people manager myself and I'm seeing way too many burnouts due to stress of the pandemic.

Given the delay is there any chance of reopening to put more funds in? I really wish I’d got the pawns.

Shisumo wrote:

Zi Mishkal wrote:

that the subsystems are only being put together now?

I'll leave the rest of this for James or someone else to address, but as for this, "development" is very much not the same as "putting together." Development has a lot more to do with smoothing out a piece of writing's relationship to the other pieces around it and the context as a whole than it does with hammering at mechanics or the like.

The subsystems are through development and I'm in the process of inputting the last bit of changes to them before sending them over to edit. These systems (the kingdom rules, settlement rules, and warfare rules) will be going through some internal playtesting as well, which will result in more changes and more editing.

Well, it's disappointing of course, but it's ALSO fair to say that all of these Kingdom management and other meta rules were not really tested back under 1st Ed. Apart from some foreshadowing in the Savage Tide AP in Farshore with some aspects of this, it was all pretty much brand spankin' new in Kingmaker 1st ed. And yes, it showed.

So if this ends up being worth it? Well, okay then.

Sometimes the scope of a project is changed and it gets delayed, and that’s alright. I’m happy that my portion was able to get this project fully funded and allow additional products to be created. I trust the professionalism of these two companies and I hope that no one overworks themselves that it starts to overlap into their personal lives or that the comments of others ruins their day and stresses them out. All of you do awesome work and I’m excited to see what the products will look like when they’re done!

Given the delay is there any chance of reopening to put more funds in? I really wish I’d got the pawns.

We won't be opening the crowdfunding up again, but as we get closer to a launch date we will open up preorder for all of the non-exclusive items from the campaign. The Pawns were not exclusive, so you will be able to get them in the future.

Good Gaming!

-Jim

Re-open the late pledge campaign and I'll jump right in now that I bought the PF2 Humble Bundle... ;)

As someone who ordered this to convert my in-flight Kingmaker game to 2E when it came out & will now probably get it after the campaign ends... this does definitely sting. Not sure if I'll ever run it now. Maybe some day I'll run it for a different group...

Guess a lesson learned about pre-ordering...I figured a pre-order from Paizo would be close to on time.

I definitely wouldn't push like others have to get it released before it's ready... do it right... it's just sad to hear. If there's any potential to stagger the release (Like some of the stretch books later to bring forward the main book or anything) I hope you're considering it, but I'm sure you considered every way to avoid the delay before you announced it.

Mark Peyton wrote:

Given the delay is there any chance of reopening to put more funds in? I really wish I’d got the pawns.

We won't be opening the crowdfunding up again, but as we get closer to a launch date we will open up preorder for all of the non-exclusive items from the campaign. The Pawns were not exclusive, so you will be able to get them in the future.

Good Gaming!

-Jim

As someone who missed the initial crowdfunding I'm glad that I won't miss out completely, thanks for responding!

If backers (satisfied or otherwise) have requests or inquiries, this is not the thread in which to voice them. The team answering inquires is completely slammed due to all issues needing to be funneled through email and forums instead of also via phone, and they do not have the time to monitor every thread for issues requiring their attention.

Many, many crowdfunding backers as well as paizo.com customers are waiting patiently for their issues to be addressed, whether they're in the email or forum queues, and one can't simply cut to the front of the line by raising their issue in a public thread. Rest assured, however, that all inquires and requests will be addressed in the order in which they were received.

Please take any requests requiring operational attention to the appropriate section of the forums or to email.

Thanks for the update.

Crowdfunding is inherently risky, and it's surprising that folks don't understand that crowfunding and pre-ordering don't work the same way.

But the fact is, Paizo is still well equipped to eventually fulfil their promises.

I hope folks will remember that Paizo has delivered on all of their print-products they've crowdfunded in the past.

Delays happen, it sounds like they aren't trying to rush a find-replace adaptation, they are doing a massive overhaul digging deep into the guts of the rules, the story and tuning up every aspect of it to be the best experience possible for both GMs and players.

Quality takes time, and James has a clear vision for Kingmaker.

So what I'm saying is, take all the time you need, because books matter less than people and I'd rather have the people working on this project and at Paizo come out of this healthy both mentally and physically.

If you know someone who'd be interested in buying me out right now for my $206.78 pledge, send them my way.

PM sent.

*eye roll* Half the country is trying to stay out of the hospital and some people want to complain because the book they ordered is late. It's a pandemic.

The other half the country is experiencing higher than normal levels of stress - I find myself being a little more compassionate than usual as a result.

In a way, it's not really about books!

Also: Impulse *click* Send *regret* Permanent *panic*...

I’ll buy someone’s refund lol I’ve played a lot of Paizo aps as a player but never ran or played Kingmaker and I’ve always wanted to but never found the right time (it was kinda like the sacred fruit of aps).

Thanks for all you do, I can’t wait to play, whenever that is.

I guess we're doing Extinction Curse next. My group belongs more in a circus than a kingdom anyway.

It's done when it's done and no sooner.

This delay lets me get some play time in with the new rules and I might even be able to spend some time GMing after that so I'm trained up and ready run an epic campaign like Kingmaker.

I've been waiting for a video game based on Cyberpunk 2020 since the 90s and now, after delays, it's coming out ON MY BIRTHDAY! I even had the time to build a new a new gaming pc just for this game.

So I won't complain if Kingmaker arrives around the same time.

Earlier is good but finished and polished is better.

Oh course it's a Kickstarter.

They maybe could have done all this, converted an old AP to 2e, spent the same time and quality doing it... And had 11 people buy it.

A Kickstarter shows interest and sales are there. Complaining about it's timeliness is both fruitless and frivolous, especially since NOTHING Paizo has ever done would warranta mistrust in their products or delivery of said product.

The original release date was December 2020... It's strange to see people complaining that they expected the product by now when it's still 5 months out from the date they pledged for. At any rate, I'm ok with the wait, especially if it means the new mechanics are well playtested.

I've got to say, I'm loving that Amiri picture, with her face a mixture of her trademark anger and barely being awake.

Personally, I'm glad to see that thus far everyone at Paizo seems to be in good health and working as hard as is possible under the conditions we all have to cope with. As an adult with a mature sense of expectations, I will patiently wait until they are done, however long that may be, confident that the end product will be as fantastic as everything else they are putting out these days. I trust that they, like all sane adults, will pay little attention to the rantings of petulant children who lack the emotional maturity to understand that the world is not about only themselves and their wants. Having already run Kingmaker once, I look forward to seeing how things develop on a second play through with the awesome 2E rules.

Not going to lie, I was really looking forward to getting my hands on this one. This year has been tough and it’s really nice to play make believe with some friends to take your mind off of the real world for a bit. And this was gong to be my first AP ran in second edition. But it’s not in the cards for this year.
The fact that Paizo has managed to get out most of their other projects in a timely manner with all that’s going on in the world right now is astounding. I can understand how a massive project like kingmaker would be difficult to get to market even when the world was not in the state it is in. And since this was a crowdfunding project I kinda expect some delays anyways.
Keep on making great games and I will eagerly wait to get something that you are proud to release and not just get out to meet an arbitrary deadline.

Disappointing of course but the update gives a lot to look forward to. And not like I'm going to be running it soon anyway. Better it's done right than rushed through.

Stay safe everyone.

...the book they ordered is late.

Despite that many people choose to view it as such, crowd-funding something is not buying something, even if you are promised a reward for your pledge, so this isn't even a book that anyone ordered.

It won't go up for "order" until it's actually done.

And just as a general PSA to anyone that doesn't know it yet: crowd-funding rewards, even when they list an estimated date of delivery, are not things you have purchased and are not actually guaranteed to be delivered on time - this isn't a "release date" that's been pushed back, it's a friendly, professional announcement that a project is taking longer than anticipated. It's a positive thing, rather than a negative, because most companies - big or small - that crowd-fund something don't bother to bring out explanations of what's going on until/unless people are complaining that the estimated delivery date has come and gone.

The bulk of the new content in the adventure path consists of four substantial new adventures; a new intro, a new adventure between "Rivers Run Red" and "Varnhold Vanishing", a new adventure between "War of the River Kings" and "Sound of a Thousand Screams," and a new adventure at the end, followed by a MUCH larger and more robust kingdom/settlement/warfare subsystem.

Yay to this part, especially! I loved the idea of a kingdom-building system, but found it a bit wonky in play.

(I don't even remember if I pledged to this, due to my cripplingly bad memory for stuff that happened... not today. I get stuff in the mail occasionally, like Kingdom of Ghouls or the original Kingmaker video game or the Dead Planets AP from Legendary games, and am like, 'I Kickstartered this?')

Thanks for the update!

I am hoping the kingdom building rules allows for a lot more flexibility in who fills what roles and what is required to fulfill those roles. Just as there were a lot of people who wanted options other than a Cleric as a healer, I want more flexibility in who can make a competent ruler or aid.

In our own home campaign, we allowed a Wisdom based ruler. There is all sorts of lore and tropes about people wanting a wise leader, yet in the original 1st edition rules this was not supported. You needed to do some house rules.

Thanks for the update, Paizo! I was planning on running this at some point after it came out and I had the materials. Of course, since I had a baby in the past year, I wasn't quite sure when I'd have the chance to run it, but I was going to run it. This delay just gives me a bit more time to figure out how to GM with a baby, who will be a toddler by the time this comes out.

Keep up the good work, James, Paizo, and the artists. You're doing great. Stay healthy and keep the company healthy.

-AA

I missed this train back when the campaign was happening. Is it going to be possible to obtain a book we we didn't back it (just, on the store)?

I've looked and looked, and can find nothing about this, and if there isn't already a store page for it somewhere, that by itself might be the answer I'm dreading.

I missed this train back when the campaign was happening. Is it going to be possible to obtain a book we we didn't back it (just, on the store)?

I've looked and looked, and can find nothing about this, and if there isn't already a store page for it somewhere, that by itself might be the answer I'm dreading.

They’ve stated the they’ll have stuff ready for preorder before it officially launches (asides from backer exclusive stuff).

I don't think people say it often enough, so I always try to. I would always prefer to wait a while longer for a high quality product than see quality suffer because of arbitrary deadlines. Take the time you need, and I can't wait to shamelessly steal the castlebuilding rules for homebrew XD