Kingmaker Update

Wow. that's quite the delay!

Boo for delays, huzzah for updates!

That chimera is why we don't let wizards drink around here!

Stay safe, James and Paizo et al!

I got an email from paizo and I thought "finally my APG has dispatched" but it was this! Double whammy of disappointment.

But you gotta do what you need to get it right and thanks for giving us the early heads up, when it comes to scheduling when to play APs it is quite the commitment, this let's mr know I gave the time to run Extinction before kingmaker drops.

I don't give a (flying flump in a cloak)* about art, the internet is full of art.

Release pdfs of parts that are developed, which we payed for a year ago.

*Non-expletive expression of frustration

Unfortunate, but not at all unexpected. I tend to tack 6-12 months onto any project completion estimate to begin with, so it's barely even a delay. XD

I’m pretty sure that’s Jirelle not Lady Jamandi, but I could be wrong!

I'm not sure why they posted Jirelle. I supplied an illustration of Lady Jamandi as the reference. Hopefully that'll get fixed at some point. I can't fix it myself, alas.

I don't give a (flying flump in a cloak)* about art, the internet is full of art.

Release pdfs of parts that are developed, which we payed for a year ago.

*Non-expletive expression of frustration

Releasing un-edited PDFs of developed text without art is unprofessional and disrespectful of the hard work the authors put in to the project. Won't be happening. Sorry for the delay, but the solution is not "Give out half-baked content." Failing to deliver a product on its initial estimated delivery date may be unprofessional as well, sure, but the solution to fixing that is to own up to the error and work to fix it... not to be even more unprofessional.

"No one remembers Watchmen was delayed a year. They only remember it was awesome." Don't know who originally said that, but it's fitting. Take the time you need to do it right, Paizo.

Big boo for delay.

Looking forward to being able to buy this outright, I didn't get the chance to be a part of the pledges due to financials at the time.

Out of intrest will it be the same team of Iconics they used for the origonal version of kingmaker or will it be diffrent ones or even the ones from the actual game?

I'd much rather wait for a good product than get a poor product earlier.

Out of intrest will it be the same team of Iconics they used for the origonal version of kingmaker or will it be diffrent ones or even the ones from the actual game?

The art uses the same team of iconics. The characters from the videogame are NPCs (not PCs) in this version, and their role is pretty much constrained to the Companion Guide. Remember that in the tabletop version of the game, all of the PC roles are played by players. The Companion Guide will allow you to sub in some of the Owlcat characters as additional adventuring companions, but we expect the PCs to each be played by players, and to be characters of their own creation.

"No one remembers Watchmen was delayed a year. They only remember it was awesome." Don't know who originally said that, but it's fitting. Take the time you need to do it right, Paizo.

Similarly, the Shigeru Miyamoto quote:

I see this transition to home excuse a ton these days. Tell me, can't you edit, write and layout from home? Need to conference with co-workers? Video call!

I am not trying to be a b~$$ h%&*, but really I cannot see how this would be delayed so much due to work from home. How is this the case?

You're making a LOT of assumptions about the company's workflow pipeline there. Especially given this is a collaboration between 2 separate companies, both working from home, needing to communicate and be on the same page.

Also making assumptions on their access to professional software and tools at home. A company might not necessary be able to shell out copies of those pieces for every writer, editor, and other worker for their personal computers. Hell, some writers and whatnot might not HAVE PCs at home.

I'm going to stick my neck out a little here and voice a concern. The last printed thing I think which has been posted to the internet was a brief update at the start of July by Legendary Press which stated the first draft of the AP had been turned over to Paizo at some point previous. The update before that, at the start of April, lent the impression that from Legendary Press' perspective they were almost complete. April link

As of April, from an outsider's perspective, things seemed ok. Skimming back through the PaizoCon Q&A there's a reply by Lisa Stephens which, in retrospect, sounds very cautious about release dates (about 1:07 in) . But I think the impression I got from her response is that it sounds like this is an undertaking that James is doing almost single-handedly? Moreover, it sounds like there's a lot of rewriting going on, and that the subsystems are only being put together now?

So, I think from a backer, and an end-user's perspective, you can understand the confusion and concern going on. We have almost zero insight into the day to day activities at Paizo and I think, for the most part, we assume that things are fine unless we hear otherwise. I don't think any of us mind the increased delay if we have some understanding of where the project stands. These are difficult days, after all. Its just from our end, things looked on track for a Nov-Dec 2020 release date and now that timeline has doubled, at least. Its concerning. And as much as we appreciate the new art, to be honest, I have to concur - we love paizo for it's content, not its pretty pictures.

So if you could speak to these concerns I know I (and probably others) would appreciate the effort, even if the information conveyed is disappointing.

Thanks, and stay safe.

Well that is too bad but I understand. I would love maybe a monthly update or something on the project. More communication is better! Stay safe

Oof. That hits hard - I was looking forward to running this campaign this winter.

But, the Miyamoto quote is exactly on point. I'd rather you guys do it right than quickly.

Soldier on, Paizo. I'll be supporting you the whole way.

Huh, I had kind of forgotten this was a thing. Is it possible to late pledge anywhere?

I have fought MANY CHIMERAS!
.......BUT NONE WITH A SPIDER HEAD! (shudders)

that the subsystems are only being put together now?

I'll leave the rest of this for James or someone else to address, but as for this, "development" is very much not the same as "putting together." Development has a lot more to do with smoothing out a piece of writing's relationship to the other pieces around it and the context as a whole than it does with hammering at mechanics or the like.

Well that is too bad but I understand. I would love maybe a monthly update or something on the project. More communication is better! Stay safe

We'll continue to post monthly updates to the Game On Tabletop page as James and the team work through the material. We missed a month in there with PaizoCon and other related work, but we'll make sure to stay on top of it from now on.

Good Gaming!

-Jim

Huh, Jamandi looks a lot like Jirelle. Are they possibly related?

No worries about the delay. With this, though, will there be any chance for backers to add on to their original orders? I missed out on pawns the first time around, and I'm kicking myself...

Zi Mishkal wrote:

that the subsystems are only being put together now?

I'll leave the rest of this for James or someone else to address, but as for this, "development" is very much not the same as "putting together." Development has a lot more to do with smoothing out a piece of writing's relationship to the other pieces around it and the context as a whole than it does with hammering at mechanics or the like.

The subsystems are through development and I'm in the process of inputting the last bit of changes to them before sending them over to edit. These systems (the kingdom rules, settlement rules, and warfare rules) will be going through some internal playtesting as well, which will result in more changes and more editing.

Huh, Jamandi looks a lot like Jirelle. Are they possibly related?

Nope.

I wonder how much the module, Malevolence, that James Jacobs is writing that is due out in March 2021, is contributing to the delay?
I guess they already have the over 500,000 dollars for the kingmaker project, so they can take their time. But the module is a new stream of money, so that takes precedence?

None at all.

...work proceeds apace, with it being pretty much the only thing (other than meetings and product approvals) that I’m focused on right now.

I wonder how much the module, Malevolence, that James Jacobs is writing that is due out in March 2021, is contributing to the delay?

I guess they already have the over 500,000 dollars for the kingmaker project, so they can take their time. But the module is a new stream of money, so that takes precedence?

Dude, this is Paizo. Does anything you just suggested seem to fit with their business ethic as we've seen it for the past decade+?

I’m pretty sure that’s Jirelle not Lady Jamandi, but I could be wrong!

We are working on posting the correct image. Thanks.

Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:

Well that is too bad but I understand. I would love maybe a monthly update or something on the project. More communication is better! Stay safe

We'll continue to post monthly updates to the Game On Tabletop page as James and the team work through the material. We missed a month in there with PaizoCon and other related work, but we'll make sure to stay on top of it from now on.

Good Gaming!

-Jim

Care to respond to my question about how to cancel my pledge and get a refund? Preferably without having to wait for 2 months for customer service to get to my email.

I wonder how much the module, Malevolence, that James Jacobs is writing that is due out in March 2021, is contributing to the delay?

I guess they already have the over 500,000 dollars for the kingmaker project, so they can take their time. But the module is a new stream of money, so that takes precedence?

Zero.

My work on Malevolence is done in my free time, as a freelancer. It's not something I'm writing on the clock. When I go overtime while working on Kingmaker (which is happening) that eats into my free time, which means I need to then juggle my time spent working on projects like Malevolence against things like relaxation, sleeping, etc.

I hope you are appropriately prioritizing said relaxation, sleeping, etc, James. :)

I know things like this eat you up, but keeping yourself healthy and sane is more important than avoiding delays. :)

Thanks for the update, James! Carry on!

Huh; looking further at the art we have for Lady Jamandi, it is wrong. We'll be adjusting it to look more like her and less like the iconic swashbuckler in the final product. It's still a cool image.

I hope you are appropriately prioritizing said relaxation, sleeping, etc, James. :)

I know things like this eat you up, but keeping yourself healthy and sane is more important than avoiding delays. :)

It is, of course, further compounded by the crippling stress of working during a pandemic. I'm sure I'm not the only person on the planet whose work efficiency hasn't taken a hit due to time spent worrying that I or my loved ones might be dead in a week. AKA: There's more ways than just "supply chain disruptions" that a pandemic can affect a product's schedule.

Whether or not I'm appropriately prioritizing relaxation and what not... I'm sure I'm not but I'm doing what I can.

Jim Butler wrote:

Slamy Mcbiteo wrote:

Well that is too bad but I understand. I would love maybe a monthly update or something on the project. More communication is better! Stay safe

We'll continue to post monthly updates to the Game On Tabletop page as James and the team work through the material. We missed a month in there with PaizoCon and other related work, but we'll make sure to stay on top of it from now on.

Good Gaming!

-Jim

Care to respond to my question about how to cancel my pledge and get a refund? Preferably without having to wait for 2 months for customer service to get to my email.

There is nothing to respond to. This was a "Crowdfunding" campaign. If you look in the Taxes and Shipping section (Scroll down) you will see the relevant information:

"Return Policy: Due to the nature of the crowdfunding, rewards received through the Kingmaker 10th Anniversary crowdfunding campaign are not eligible for return or exchange."

OKAY! I've looked into the art brief, and the image I listed above was not intended to be one of Lady Jamandi Aldori at all. It's an image to illustrate the "Sword Scion" background at the start of the book (one of several Kingmaker-themed backgrounds adapted from the original publication's Campaign Traits).

So... it's correct, in that it's illustrating the iconic swashbuckler after she takes the Sword Scion background and fights with an Aldori Dueling Sword.

We've ordered several hundred new pieces of art for the book... it's a relief that a mix up like this is me mis-remembering what past James did in anticipation of an illustration need! :-)

Persona 5, Resident Evil 4, Team Fortress 2, Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

It is finished, when it's done. Take your time.

Huh; looking further at the art we have for Lady Jamandi, it is wrong. We'll be adjusting it to look more like her and less like the iconic swashbuckler in the final product. It's still a cool image.

And this, gentlefolk, is why we aren't done with the book yet! Producing this much material takes a ton of work, especially if we want to maintain the standard of quality we're known for. Recent events have made it much more difficult to reapportion resources to help poor James out, alas, which means he's doing much of the work (at this stage at least) on his own.

Thanks for all your hard work, James! I for one love our accidental Jirelle-cosplaying Aldori swordlord.

Grumpus wrote:

I wonder how much the module, Malevolence, that James Jacobs is writing that is due out in March 2021, is contributing to the delay?

I guess they already have the over 500,000 dollars for the kingmaker project, so they can take their time. But the module is a new stream of money, so that takes precedence?

Zero.

My work on Malevolence is done in my free time, as a freelancer. It's not something I'm writing on the clock. When I go overtime while working on Kingmaker (which is happening) that eats into my free time, which means I need to then juggle my time spent working on projects like Malevolence against things like relaxation, sleeping, etc.

That's great to hear. I was not aware that the module was freelance. I had mistakenly assumed it was part of your regular Paizo job.

It's much more likely that they need a couple of months more, BUT this is a delay they hoped wouldn't happen, and the immediate months where an extension of the work would happen actually had other products scheduled for the people working on it. So instead of delaying their entire production pipeline, they will probably pause development while prioritizing the previously scheduled work and continue at a point in time where they managed to make some space.
Scheduling is important, even more so when products take 1+ years to develop. Delaying 5-6 products they announced recently (or going to announce this week) by 3-6 months vs delaying one for 6 to 12 months... The later just look and feel better.
Because yeah, delaying each of these products would have individual overhead.

[EDIT:] This was supposed to be a semi reply to the overall tone of past5 posts, but the thread went faster than I thought it would. So now I feel it's a bit out of context. Sorry.

[EDIT 2] I also just realized that my actual opinion on the subject dis not clear:
I'm ok with the delay., I wanted to GM it this winter for friends, but this will have to wait, as I prefer VASTLY for you to be healthy and making a great product. continue the good work, rooting for you.

It is, of course, further compounded by the crippling stress of working during a pandemic. I'm sure I'm not the only person on the planet whose work efficiency hasn't taken a hit due to time spent worrying that I or my loved ones might be dead in a week. AKA: There's more ways than just "supply chain disruptions" that a pandemic can affect a product's schedule.

Whether or not I'm appropriately prioritizing relaxation and what not... I'm sure I'm not but I'm doing what I can.

A wise man once said "Get some rest. If you don't have your health, you don't have anything."

I'm not the boss of you, but overtime is almost never the answer, at least not beyond immediate emergencies. The book will be done when it's done.

I spent 500$+ on this product and I’d rather wait a year extra than get something rushed or lacklustre. Thanks for the update. Knowing James Jacobs is fathering this project gives me complete confidence in it being worth the wait. Best of luck James!

Thanks for the update.
I agree this delay is a bummer because I'm very excited to get my grubby hands on this product and kick it off with my pals. I trust that Paizo is doing what they can to keep this rolling along with the least amount of delay possible. I'll keep waiting and continue to support the great things Paizo does because I know you're good for it.

Stay safe and keep up the good work