For that trait, it does not sound like you automatically stabilize. Is that correct?
Correct. Here's my understanding:
A PC with this trait can remain standing at negative HP. The PC is considered disabled. If reduced to negative, they will lose 1 HP per turn until they stabilize. Performing any strenuous action (such as attacking) makes them immediately resume losing HP if they did stabilize. They may only draw a firearm, reload it, or fire it on their turn; no other action is permitted.
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Proposal:
Halfling turned skin walker (using the actual race point of part of this feel free to vito). A wild little wolf club and his wolf who are convinced they are the consen bannermen of a good.
Skinwalker (Small = 0)
Fixed feat (cunning = 2 points)
Skilled (4 points)
Shape change (wolf bestial feature +2 Str)(5 points +1 Str)
+2 Wis, -2 (Int) -1 point
Dropping spell like ability (-2)
Dropping Skill bonus.(-2)
Right now it's 7 point race, pre the race build rules. I have spent more than hafe the points so far to give myself effectively 2 more skill point per level. I hate cleric 2+int. My build can not afford any dump stats so the array is stretched thin. Also skill points in pfs only make you competent at a skill. It's items, spells, skill focus that build on that that make you good.
My array looks like this:
14+2, 14, 14 ,10, 14, 11
As for a feat combat reflexes (I'm assuming is 10 but I will not argue about or 9 or 8 ;))
How much would extra performance/ lingering performance cost the are ready good until level 5 then you almost never use them.
I'm looking to make the shaggy little guys a Knightly banner man. So I was going to use the Chivalry inquisition but was hoping we could modify the second power to work for a cleric. Altering it to cast a spell as if you and your mount had Improved Spell Sharing wisdom items per day. As for losing out on domain spells I feel like that is a decent sacrific but I would not say no to generating a chivalry spells list full of support spells. Making this into a domain.
Things to do (wrote this as a bit of a mish mash so I have added a summary list):
- Approve/Disapprove custom skinwalker using race pointbuy rules.
- Approve/Disapprove cost of combat ref, lingering performance, and extra preformacne
- Help make the chivalry inquisition a useable domain.
Oh-- was there a number pinned to Combat Expertise? I usually decry it as mostly-useless on the way to get to better feats, but as a swash, it's actually a great way for me to shore up my less-than-stellar AC.
I'd give it, like... a 6 or 7, personally.
I think I'll take Skill Focus (Sense Motive) for my feat instead of Skill Focus (Intimidate).
Now to actually put everything together...
This is going to be Drogeney's alias for this game.
In case it got buried in the posts we've had since last night
...what I would like to do is remove the increasing cost for using arcane barrier more than one time per day.
Currently each use after the first costs one point more than the time before so the first is 1pt, the second use is 2, the third 3, etc.
If you were still just thinking on it no problem, just wanted to make sure it wasn't overlooked.
Also, I don't recall seeing it anywhere but how are ability scores being determined?
Standard 20 point buy, max wealth by class.
I got you bud ;)
Apparently, we have an evil-aligned cleric up for consideration?
If so, then that might change my role a bit. I might spec Sarona into being more of a healing and support witch.
Ah. Alrighty then. Debuffs and battlefield control it is, then. :)
I like the idea of using the template (especially with how often I lose track of the numbers), but I'm not able to copy the formatting; any ideas on that?
I like the idea of using the template (especially with how often I lose track of the numbers), but I'm not able to copy the formatting; any ideas on that?
I do not. However, if you want to use my template (which is in a google doc), you are free to. Just be aware that there are 2 skills sections depending on if background skills are in effect or not.
I'll be at a company offsite most of today followed my IRL D&D game, so probably won't make much progress on my character. Sounds like I'm not going for Butterfly Sting, so just need to decide what my feats for several levels are going to look like/if I'll get to Spellcut/Cut from the Air, or if I should just grab the extra skill points (leaning skill points).
I'm hoping to at least have an alias with some background details in it by tonight.
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@ Anon A Mouse. If you are still interested in a shared backstory my PC will be wise and a little charismatic but dumb as nails (reworking the point buy to reflect this). I will be attempting to make him the type of character who gets to the right idea for the wrong reason.
"We need to sneak here because then they with have their backs to us and everybody knows you can't see with your back. See simple."
He is a halfling shapechanger who was found and raised by a kind woman name Haleen. She raised him on stories of knights and heroes now he fully believes he is a knight of legend.
I've got my own template I usually use (which I think is pretty close to the standard, with a few of my own tweaks), but if GM has his own he prefers I'm happy to switch to that :P I appreciate the offer, though!
Strongly considering Order of the Flame, by the way. It's like a more foolhardy Order of the Cockatrice! :D
Lol, looks like we’re taking the same campaign trait, Grandlounge. I guess we’re adopted brothers.
Combat Reflexes is not all that great. You rarely get the opportunity to use it. 6 BP,
As for extra performance, I would say it costs 3 BP for each two extra rounds and you can pick how many points the feat gives. That is one of the nice things about variable feat costs. Everything does not have to be shoehorned into a standard one size fits all.
Lingering performance is something a lot of people take and I would leave that at 10 points.
Though it does tend to be less useful as time goes on, some of those masterpieces can be very expensive.
As for the skinwalker prototype, I don't think skilled is a normal trait for them, right? If so, you are able to add normal racial traits without trading in the usual sub, but you are not able to add traits not normally allowed.
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As for the skinwalker prototype, I don't think skilled is a normal trait for them, right? If so, you are able to add normal racial traits without trading in the usual sub, but you are not able to add traits not normally allowed.
Understood. It is not a normal trait for them. Trying to find a way to play a dumbish character but still have 4 skill point per level so it's not boring outside of combat on a 2 skill point per level class. So it is tricky. Let's see if this works
Shapechange (wolf bestial feature +2 Str)(5 points +1 Str)
+2 Wis, -2 (Int) -1 point
Dropping spell like ability (-2)
Dropping Skill bonus.(-2)
5 point race after dropping racial feature (if allowed)
10 take Cunning twice (5 point each)
6 Combat Ref
3 Extra performance (2 rounds)
5 Finding Haleen
5 Fates Favored
34 Spent so I don't need to drop the racial traits features but if do I can grab some more round of performance. Or try to find some wild child flavor stuff.
If there is any issues I'm happy to change stuff.
Remember that races cost 2 BP per RP. So you are up to 39.
I’m sure my swashbuckler will find opportunities to use Combat Reflexes ;)
Right. Then that's perfect. I will have a character up ASAP and bank that point if I am allowed unless you have an idea for burning 1 point.
You could spend one point for a +1 to a normal skill or +2 to a lightly used skill.
Or you could find a colorful but mechanically worthless feat and take it for 1 point. There are plenty of them out there!
So let's see, currently I have:
1.) human (18)
2.) spell focus (necro) (10 pts)
12 pts left...hmmm...
3.) point blank shot (10 pts) (or precise ignoring pbs if possible)
Leaves me with 2? pts again I think?
Depends on whether you took the feat with human or traded it out for something.
Modifying things here.
1.) human (18 pts)
2.) extra reservoir (human bonus feat) (no cost I believe?)
3.) extra arcanist exploit (acid jet) (8 pts as you stated earlier)
4.) spell focus necromancy (10 pts)
5.) make diplomacy a class skill (3)
Total 39 points.
Also there is a background in my alias now if you want to look over it. It may get tweaked corrected as I was putting together between things at work today but it should be pretty close to the final version.
You could spend one point for a +1 to a normal skill or +2 to a lightly used skill.
Or you could find a colorful but mechanically worthless feat and take it for 1 point. There are plenty of them out there!
I will search out the most usless but frequently arising feat can find.
This is the WIP alias for Anon's character. Still debating a few things (mostly feats/traits and Int vs Str score) since I keep flip-flopping) and need to buy gear other than just my armor (as well as adding stats to by-line for quick reference). It's looking a little like I might not actually be TWFing until 4th or 5th level. There's also some brief background/personality/appearance stuff.
The first feat I came across that I thought would be fun was this but it is a little bit better than useless but comes with some huge drawdrawback. I will keep looking for other ones.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/gruesome-shapechanger-monster
How long do we have to make characters? I work on the weekend, so I won't have a lot of time to put something together until Monday
Just to make sure, before I set my sights on taking extra reservoir, I figured I should make sure that it's going to work the way I believe is intended since the wording is a bit wonky.
Extra Reservoir
My interpretation of it, and the one that seems the way it is intended, is that it increases both your reservoir capacity and generation each day by three. i.e. Without the feat at 1st level I would have 3 points generated each day a total capacity of 4 at any given time. With the feat I would generate up to 6 each day and have a capacity of 7 at any given time.
As written it is unclear if "You gain three more points in your arcane reservoir" means only when you take the feat or every day when you fill the reservoir during spell prep.
Modifying things here.
1.) human (18 pts)
2.) extra reservoir (human bonus feat) (no cost I believe?)
3.) extra arcanist exploit (acid jet) (8 pts as you stated earlier)
4.) spell focus necromancy (10 pts)
5.) make diplomacy a class skill (3)Total 39 points.
Also there is a background in my alias now if you want to look over it. It may get tweaked corrected as I was putting together between things at work today but it should be pretty close to the final version.
That looks right. Though, technically, human gives you 10 bonus build points and the extra reservoir costs 10 build points
The first feat I came across that I thought would be fun was this but it is a little bit better than useless but comes with some huge drawdrawback. I will keep looking for other ones.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/gruesome-shapechanger-monster
I would hardly call that useless since it will sicken all enemies for a minute. That would actually be a costly one.
I was thinking about Cunning. I think you should pay for your ranks at a rate of 2 BPs per rank in a combat skill, 1 BP per rank in other skills (including the lightly used ones since they scale already).
Finding Haleen will be an exception since it is a campaign trait and they are often a little more valuable than normal traits.
Just to make sure, before I set my sights on taking extra reservoir, I figured I should make sure that it's going to work the way I believe is intended since the wording is a bit wonky.
Extra Reservoir
My interpretation of it, and the one that seems the way it is intended, is that it increases both your reservoir capacity and generation each day by three. i.e. Without the feat at 1st level I would have 3 points generated each day a total capacity of 4 at any given time. With the feat I would generate up to 6 each day and have a capacity of 7 at any given time.As written it is unclear if "You gain three more points in your arcane reservoir" means only when you take the feat or every day when you fill the reservoir during spell prep.
That's the way I read it too.
How long do we have to make characters? I work on the weekend, so I won't have a lot of time to put something together until Monday
You got some time. Don't worry about it. If I get inpatient I can launch an intro scene to allow some RP and you can jump in when enough of the characters is ready to do so. I don't think you will have a problem having your character ready by the time any rolls are needed.
Excellent! I believe my points are spent save 1.
I'll have my character's term ready this weekend, got a good portion of the crunch figured out already.
Also, if anyone wants to work in character connections feel free to read the back story and propose something.
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The first feat I came across that I thought would be fun was this but it is a little bit better than useless but comes with some huge drawdrawback. I will keep looking for other ones.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/monster-feats/gruesome-shapechanger-monster
I would hardly call that useless since it will sicken all enemies for a minute. That would actually be a costly one.
I was thinking about Cunning. I think you should pay for your ranks at a rate of 2 BPs per rank in a combat skill, 1 BP per rank in other skills (including the lightly used ones since they scale already).
Finding Haleen will be an exception since it is a campaign trait and they are often a little more valuable than normal traits.
That's 40 and 20 points over 20 levels respectively by your rules cunning once in now worth precise shot, deadly aim, rapid shot and manyshot (4/5 of the best feat chain in the game).
Skill point math in pathfinder does not treat all +1s as equal. The math is sequential adds. There is a base, competence, competitiveness, then optimization.
First, you need 1 point per level to make a skill worth rolling but you will fail much more than succeed (+5 at level 5).
Second, you have class skill this makes the skill decently useful. +8 at level 5 is ok.
Third, having a decent ability score. Get's you to +11 at level five This is a wizard making a knowledge check.
Then you get into stacking optimization skill focus, remember that the +2 bonus that stacks with anything in a masterwork tool costs 50gp, and a +2 ioun stone is 400gp.
Though now that I think about it I will just work up a build that does not depend on skill feats.
What are your thoughts on "feats that apply to Scatter weapon damage"?
A weapon with the scatter weapon quality can shoot two different types of ammunition. It can fire normal bullets that target one creature, or it can make a scattering shot, attacking all creatures within a cone. When a scatter weapon attacks all creatures within a cone, it makes a separate attack roll against each creature within the cone. Each attack roll takes a –2 penalty, and its attack damage cannot be modified by precision damage or damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike. Effects that grant concealment, such as fog or smoke, or the blur, invisibility, or mirror image spells, do not foil a scatter attack. If any of the attack rolls threaten a critical, confirm the critical for that attack roll alone. A firearm that makes a scatter shot misfires only if all of the attack rolls made misfire. If a scatter weapon explodes on a misfire, it deals triple its damage to all creatures within the misfire radius.
Copied the whole thing (aside from the siege engine rules) for full context, but the bolded is where I want to put the emphasis.
There's been some debate as to what "damage-increasing feats such as Vital Strike" means-- whether it means all damage-increasing feats, or just ones that fall under a certain category. People point out how weird it would be for Point Blank Shot not to work with a shotgun, for example.
I personally think it's going to be impossible to come up with some kind of formula for how many BPs something is going to cost. Similarly, asking "is this at all useful" may not be the best metric. For example, sickening someone may be useful. But is anyone ever going to pick that feat over, say, Power Attack or Precise Shot or Spell Focus (all depending on your individual build)? Alternatively, what kind of an action is it to change shape? If it's not a swift action or faster, how often would someone choose to change shape mid-battle for this feat's effect vs doing something else? Similarly, Point-Blank Shot may be useful, but how many people would take it, especially at early levels, if it weren't a pre-req for Precise Shot? People using thrown weapons that have a short-range anyway might, but archers who perhaps prefer to be further away from an enemy than a single move action may not. Do you then price it based just on what the feat grants? Or do you also price it for its status as "pre-req for Precise Shot"? The latter especially will be hard because it will require being able to guess what the player plans to use it for (perhaps easy for PBS but less easy for other feats).
Going back to linguistics, how useful is it to share a language with someone else? The answer is that it's most useful for the party face or someone focusing on spells that require the other person to understand you. Moderately useful (by which I mean, useful but less likely to come up) for a scout who wants to overhear conversations. Everybody else, as long as someone in the party knows the language, possibly through magic, it's probably just role play. From a more meta-perspective, the linguistics skill is also more useful for players who are better at guessing what languages might come up in a game.
Tl;dr: I don't think there's going to be a clean or easy way to assign BP to things. Especially if you want to do this pro-active way of pricing things where people are actively looking around for things they can buy for X BPs that aren't completely useless. That's just my opinion though.
If you want a model for a points system, there's a highly elaborate 3pp. system called Eclipse: the Codex Persona that breaks everything, including BAB, HD, into points that you buy per level. That might provide some ideas.
Oh, and need a BP count on Never Stop Shooting when you get a chance!
(Hope you were prepared for so many questions when you implemented this system... but I love this system, it's fun!)
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I should also add I'm a fan of the system. I'm having a little an issue calibrating what I think is good compared to the gm but that a small hurdle to overcome and miteke has been great work on things with us.
I'm going to try to lay out my thinking here.
Gruesome Shapechanger it's 2 standard actions to sicken the DC is based on a lowish stat for the class, like rogue DCs being int based, off stats nearly always results in passed save. There is no situation where 2 full attacks or 2 spells will not be better.
For me, I determine 'useless' as if the option is a tactically bad decision then the option is useless. Vital strike on a dagger does something, but it is worse than a full attack. Intimidating instead of attacking is almost always a worse decision these are not technically useless but it is doing is net harm in a cost-benefit sense. It is a strict loss of opportunity cost.
I like what the system is trying to do, and I think it's an interesting problem to think about. My brain also naturally will try to find edge cases or situations where things break down. I don't particularly mean them as criticism, I just think they're interesting.
I also just figure that I can't go wrong if I just assume all feats are 10 and all traits are 5 (though this works for me since I went with Human as my race). It simplifies things, and worst case, I get the character I was already trying to build. Best case, I get some points back that I'll save towards another 5 point trait or 10 point feat. :-)
When dealing with Lore skills is Lore (undead) too broad? If so how should it be narrowed down?
I don't think there's going to be a clean or easy way to assign BP to things. Especially if you want to do this pro-active way of pricing things where people are actively looking around for things they can buy...
There is not, but right now what they've done is assign 10 points to any and all feats and then don;t even try to make them worth a whole feat. Though we may have trouble figuring out a fair amount, I am quite sure anything we end up with will be a better representation of what they are now.
I was rather hoping it would encourage folks to try out some new things, particularly feats that would never be taken because they are just not worth a whole feat. And in the end I hope that it will produce rich characters, with more feats than normal.
Now, never stop shooting would be worth, oh, 3 points I'm thinking because it is sooo dang dangerous to use. It's like begging the enemy to kill you. Does that sound fair to everyone?
I would think that scatter shot a hit would do less damage with scatter shot than a single shot. Not just be less accurate. In fact I would think it would be the reverse, don't you? I'm OK with the rules you posted but I'd be up for a different take if you are.
I'll get back to discussing the gruesome shapechanger later tonight. My wife is missing me and me her.
OK, on Gruesome Shapechanger.
I figure your DC is going to be low, that is true, so chances of getting the BBEG is going to be slim. But if there are a half dozen grunts you will probably get 1 or two of them. I think you are right in that it is not worth a whole 10. If you get rid of the sickening effect you can have it for 1. With the sickening effect, I would say 5.
Now why would it take 2 standard actions? Explain that to me and when you would normally be doing your shapeshifting if it takes so long. I could see lowering it from 5 if I understood why it takes 2 rounds and whether you would be shapeshifting in combat anyway (thus making it a freebie tacked on to a normal action rather than something you would not normally wait to do)..
When dealing with Lore skills is Lore (undead) too broad? If so how should it be narrowed down?
I do think that too broad. Undead do seem to pop up a lot in Pathfinder scenarios. Narrow it down to a particular class of undead like zombies or ghosts, or something like that and lore would be a good fit.
Really for something like that I need a brand new category, but things are getting complicated enough as it is.
But I will take a look through the books and see if there are few enough undead that lore would be OK. If I'm seeing something ridiculously low like one undead encounter per book I will revise this decision.