I really should try to easy my PbP load, too... but I've got a sickness. I've got some ideas on how to do it in the coming months, mostly around changing my usual posting times, but one way or another, it really needs to happen.
On the plus side, the adventure with the PbP newbies is in full swing - not as full as Steve's "table 2", but they're doing well and posting regularly. It's awesome to see what a bit of encouragement (okay, a LOT of encouragement) and some time given to figure things out on the gameplay thread has done for these new players.
Unless you knew, you'd think these guys had been playing together for at least a few scenarios before, and all had a decent amount of PbP experience (with the exception of Kajar - am I right, Steve?). They're posts are pretty close to all up to snuff.
The system works! It's just that it hurt - a lot - during the 1.5 weeks of "training". 14+ newbies all posting on the same thread 2-3 times daily with me trying to manage it and coach them on the finer points of PbP and PFS... ouch.
So I struggle with my PbP load constantly. The player in me wants to add more games because I want something to read everyone I check. The realist in me knows that there is a level where it is unsustainable, and posting quality suffers.
I am really enjoying GMing this game, and I expect I will be doing more of it, though probably for our group only moving forward, for the near future anyways. Damien is right on, if you didn't tell me I wouldn't know they are newbies, they really latched on to it. Makes it a lot of fun to GM. Kajar is coming along, like a super tanker. Just takes those things done time to get moving. I love his persistence, and he seems like he is seeking to get better and learn more.
That is so awesome about finishing another AP on here. Our RoW game is chugging along at full tilt and I am loving it. All of this together is making me a better gamer, I can tell the difference.
Random thought... Lockwood: we have got to finish that backstory... It is so tantalizingly close....
-Posted with Wayfinder
I find myself preferring quality to quantity, but sadly for my tastes quality is sorely lacking out there so I find myself more in quantity. That is why I am so excited to be playing with like minded individuals here. I am sorely in the minority in one of my tables and feel like I am the only one wanting to advance the story. A bit frustrating.
Just found out the other day that you are GMing Steve! Congrats.
Okay, so I've been thinking for a while now about how to spend less time obsessing over and posting in PbP. I think I have a solution.
As a quick note, playing takes a tiny percentage of my overall time. It takes about ten times longer to GM for a single game than it does to play in a single game. Seriously. I imagine you will notice very little change to my posting for the games I am playing in.
GMing is another kettle of fish, and so most of the below applies to that. Also, all of the below refers to central time (GMT -5 during daylight savings/-6 hours otherwise). Adjust your minds accordingly.
Currently, in the mornings alone, I'm posting 2-3+ times in each game I GM (when I have something to respond to), and checking them 6+ times. That has to change.
I will, from now, be posting once in the morning for each of the games I am GMing. I will try to make this before 11am, but definitely before 12pm. I will generally not be posting GM posts before 7am (as I have been), reserving that time for my PCs.
These will typically be my "move to the next plot point" posts.
If there are posts to respond to I will post once more in the afternoon. The time of this post will vary based on my schedule, but will be before 5pm.
These will be more reactionary posts.
I will no longer be posting after 5pm (PC posting or GM). If there is a lot of action, I will try to post before 7am in place of my PC posting time, and then once again before 12pm (if there is action in the game).
This gives you guys time to roleplay amongst yourselves, and means you're not trying to rush your posts (you have all night).
For all of the above, combat is a different thing entirely. Combat can really bog down a game if the GM isn't onto it. So, when a game is in combat, I will check regularly on my phone and do my best to post reactions (like saving throws, telling you if combat maneuvers succeed, when enemies are dead, etc) and move things along if I am able to no matter what time of day it is. I will only post the combat table summaries, however, during my regular posting times above (since that takes ages) unless I'm posting and it has come around to the baddies' initiative (in which case I need a to write a big post anyway).
All of the above goes out the window and I'll just be posting when I can. They're a slow time for all of our games anyway.
The biggest advantages here are:
- More family time for me, house cleaning time and time for my side projects (like do that website, learn spanish, etc). I can also develop a better schedule around what I do during the day.
- Maintain quality posts. With some time set aside (rather than posting as I can), I will be able to concentrate more on providing good quality posts. If you, as my players, know what type of posts I'm posting and when, then you can spend more time crafting quality posts also.
- The above schedule fits well with your typical posting schedules. I notice most of you post overnight (so my morning post will wrap that up), a little in the morning, and then again at around lunch time / early afternoon (so my afternoon post will tie that in).
- Setting expectations in general. You'll know when I'm likely to post, so you can plan what you need to do around that.
- This timeframe works well for our European posters.
- Rule of 2 / rule of 3 won't need to be used so often. I'll frequently be able to get opinions on what to do next from more players.
The biggest disadvantages here are:
- My games will probably move a little more slowly. Isle won't change pace - I'm hoping it speeds up - but Reign of Winter and any scenarios I run may go a little slower than usual from time to time. I don't expect much slowdown, though.
- You may have to wait a little longer for reactions from me.
- We miss out on a "posting cycle" . This happens: Late afternoon /
early evening -> evening response -> lateevening posts -> morning response. In practice, though, I think that's our least busy "posting cycle".
Your feedback here is (as always) most welcome, but for my own sanity I just need to do this. Again, though, not a whole lot should change game-wise... except you'll notice my absence at night times.
You need to do what is best for you. Just glad to be part of quality games.
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The system works! It's just that it hurt - a lot - during the 1.5 weeks of "training". 14+ newbies all posting on the same thread 2-3 times daily with me trying to manage it and coach them on the finer points of PbP and PFS... ouch.
And this is why you will always have my repect, GM Damo.
Instructing new players is *extremely* important. I know you're teaching them right: focus on RP and story over builds and boons.
That's gotta be the hardest habit for people to break as they move to PbP. Classes don't mean anything. Teaching them to avoid the metagame and such, and giving them new ways to look at their characters: as actual people not stats and abilities.
Aroden bless you for doing it.
I totally support Damien - I think the advantages are worth it. Family time is always the most important anyways, as much fun as this game is.
With my new experience GMing, I can see the pull to want to post all the time even more. I don't want the players to feel like they are waiting on me, but I also know now how much more time those GM posts take.
Also - John: Thanks! I can't wait to run one for this group of wackos! Soon... very soon.
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You wonderful Fox in Socks reading father of small children.
Three gigantic fleas fly through the breezy trees while the freezy breeze blew. With nary a sneeze, these three fleas flee.
I look upon your storytelling with awe and wonder, and take notes so I may get better.
Ha! Glad you're still reading along with my game. Yeah, I threw that in there for any Seuss fans that may be in the audience. Happy I found one. ;-)
Also, thank you everyone for your words of support. It's been harder than usual to get my morning post in - watching my daughter's fun run! She's a champ... but it's sooooo freaking commercialized here in Texas with this fundraising group. I wanted to barf at the things that were being said by the organizers.
Thank you, too, Painlord for the encouragement with these new players. Loving it, actually. So glad you encouraged me to do it (though I probably didn't have to take it to this extreme).
I was reading along to see how you handled things differently from how I did. I like that I am a little ways ahead of you. It gives me a chance to do it "my way" and then get some comparison shortly after. Any chance I can to learn and get better!
Plus you never know when you get a nugget like that!
FYI tomorrow is going to suck for me work wise. I will try and post in the morning, but expect to be offine for most if not all day.
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Oh what hell am I creating... to be played in First Steps.
This character could become a <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted>.
It was going to be a <redacted> <redacted> <redacted>
The complexity! The planning! The likelihood that it just won't work!
At least you can always change a <redacted> that doesn't work to whatever you like 2 times before 2nd level. Plenty of time to f*ck it up and get it right. ;-)
The confirmation is heading apace. Expect my First Steps trilogy to begin in about 2 weeks. Pace will be slow (for me), unless you want to pause RoW (I certainly don't want to, but I'll bow to popular opinion).
Oh what hell am I creating... to be played in First Steps.
This character could become a <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted> <redacted>.
It was going to be a <redacted> <redacted> <redacted>
The complexity! The planning! The likelihood that it just won't work!
So specific.... yet so vague...
Totally not going to work.
hehehehehehehehehehehe
At least you can always change a <redacted> that doesn't work to whatever you like 2 times before 2nd level. Plenty of time to f*ck it up and get it right. ;-)
The confirmation is heading apace. Expect my First Steps trilogy to begin in about 2 weeks. Pace will be slow (for me), unless you want to pause RoW (I certainly don't want to, but I'll bow to popular opinion).
No need to slow ROW IMO - I am still volunteering to take over the GM reins on the "Alt" group once Damien is done with them and the first steps trilogy.
At some point I need to figure out what I want to do with this GM Credit for confirmation, and what I will do with all of those credits. Maybe that will be how I boost Hrothgar up to high levels before I play him....
The Alts credits, at least, should be used to level your alt - for when you need to jump in (like I did with Lort)! That way, we've all got a character of exactly the same level as each other - always.
The Alts credits, at least, should be used to level your alt - for when you need to jump in (like I did with Lort)! That way, we've all got a character of exactly the same level as each other - always.
What is this? Reason and common sense?
pffffbbbbbt
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Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey balls, I've begun to think of just running ONE game, albeit it'd be big.
Dragon's Demand. I own that thing as a physical copy and managed to run it for a select home group for some time, but we lacked a proper place to play, and weren't able to get a babysitter. So it died down almost immediately after finishing chapter 1.
I'd run the module in campaign mode, stripping away the rules of PFS and allow almost everything (but limiting to good taste). I'm intrigued to know are you interested in investing into a much larger PbP game.
Hmmmm sounds interesting. Consider me intrigued.
@Silbeg: Yeah, it's so we can play the season 7 1-5s together! So... keep the characters the same level, same tier, same chronicles, etc.
@Deussu: For something that is sanctioned, I'd prefer to play it in PFS mode and not unshackled. That said, though, I'm overcommitted as it is... so please don't take my preferences into account.
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Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey balls
The more they all suck the less my game sucked, right?
Here is to sucking less than the other game! *raises coffee mug to computer screen, dribbles down the front of his shirt, and has to go back upstairs to change*
Alas my friends, this may be it for me until tomorrow. I wish you all well,
- Damien I hope it is not something scary in RoW,
- Jack, Finarin will cast Stone Call, then melee or Snowball at the gnolls/hyenadon,
- Damien Mtumbwi will walk around with his junk out more,
- I could care less about my other 'donkey balls' games.
Oh and for God's sake, someone call 911 and find out where the other Chris is. I for one am worried.
Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey balls, I've begun to think of just running ONE game, albeit it'd be big.
Dragon's Demand. I own that thing as a physical copy and managed to run it for a select home group for some time, but we lacked a proper place to play, and weren't able to get a babysitter. So it died down almost immediately after finishing chapter 1.
I'd run the module in campaign mode, stripping away the rules of PFS and allow almost everything (but limiting to good taste). I'm intrigued to know are you interested in investing into a much larger PbP game.
Count me as intrigued as well, but also currently pushing the limits of my commitment. If I did play, I too would be more interested in the PFS track, but please don't take my preferences into account as you are searching for players...
Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey ballsThe more they all suck the less my game sucked, right?
Here is to sucking less than the other game! *raises coffee mug to computer screen, dribbles down the front of his shirt, and has to go back upstairs to change*
Alas my friends, this may be it for me until tomorrow. I wish you all well,
- Damien I hope it is not something scary in RoW,
- Jack, Finarin will cast Stone Call, then melee or Snowball at the gnolls/hyenadon,
- Damien Mtumbwi will walk around with his junk out more,
- I could care less about my other 'donkey balls' games.
Oh and for God's sake, someone call 911 and find out where the other Chris is. I for one am worried.
Good luck John, and Godspeed. We will be here on the otherside.
Random quick note to addendum my comment about Dragon's Demand -
This module can be played with any character, and have the character sheets applied to PFS characters as if the player had used a pre-gen (same rules for ROW and all the other sanctioned AP content)
I withdraw my statement about making it PFS. However (and maybe this is what Damien meant all along and I am terrible at reading comprehension) if I play I would like to be able to receive the chronicles as we go through. If you get all three main chronicles there is a 4th that you can also receive.
More interested now than before - Pending my current and planned PbP load. Definitely interested in learning more at the very least.
Oh and for God's sake, someone call 911 and find out where the other Chris is. I for one am worried.
Is this 'Chris' supposed to be me, Chris? If so, I'm here but just very busy with work and stuff lately, and so have neglected this discussion thread (a little). But I'm fairly (kind of) confident this comment wasn't actually directed toward 'me, Chris'... so, don't mind me butting in :)
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Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey balls, I've begun to think of just running ONE game, albeit it'd be big..
This! THIS THIS THSI!!!
Tell me more. Why do they suck? Are the players bad? Not well trained? Are the GMs bad? Just bad?
Is it technical badness? RP badness? Cliche'd yahoos? WHAT!?
/me leans in to listen.
Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey balls, I've begun to think of just running ONE game, albeit it'd be big.
Dragon's Demand. I own that thing as a physical copy and managed to run it for a select home group for some time, but we lacked a proper place to play, and weren't able to get a babysitter. So it died down almost immediately after finishing chapter 1.
I'd run the module in campaign mode, stripping away the rules of PFS and allow almost everything (but limiting to good taste). I'm intrigued to know are you interested in investing into a much larger PbP game.
Dragon's Demand sounds awesome, but I don't think I could do you justice with my posting quality/frequency if I joined another game. So, I'm sorry, dude. I would really to, but I don't think I can manage it. Thanks for offering it up though!
I didn't realize you could get the Chronicles AP-style. Color me even more interested! However, interest aside, I'm still too crammed with my current PbP load and can't see that ending until (maybe) after PbP Gameday 4 is over.
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Just a warning ya'll, I've been playing some PbPs and since a majority of them sucks donkey balls, I've begun to think of just running ONE game, albeit it'd be big.
Dragon's Demand. I own that thing as a physical copy and managed to run it for a select home group for some time, but we lacked a proper place to play, and weren't able to get a babysitter. So it died down almost immediately after finishing chapter 1.
I'd run the module in campaign mode, stripping away the rules of PFS and allow almost everything (but limiting to good taste). I'm intrigued to know are you interested in investing into a much larger PbP game.
Sounds like a great plan! I am totally interested.
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Alright. I am stoked. Pumped. Excited.
After more than 12 months of collaborative discussion, writing, re-writing, hemming, hawing, hint dropping, and general teasing... The time has finally come to post Cyrus and Ibid's backstory.
There is a chance it will be completely underwhelming and confusing, and you will all hate it. But I love it, and I think you will enjoy it too.
My favorite part is that there is more to the story... an ending... after Cyrus and Ibid retire as pathfinder seekers. But you will have to wait until we are amaze-balls high level to hear that part.
Except for the random hints and flashes we work into the games...
Really! The one day I am offline. Once I am caught up on my game-plays I am going to find a quite spot and read that. Was wondering what happened here. I am sure that it is awesome though.
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I didn't even dare try to read it in morning, else my daughter would've surely been late from preschool.
Just read Ibid's first post, and it left me trembling with anticipation! Now I know how I'll spend the bus trip downtown :)
@Deussu: Really interested, yes. I have looked forward to playing Dragons Demand for a long time. But like the others I'm quite worried about the amount of pbp's at the moment - two columns is too much :D
Should we look into this after PBP Gameday? Unless you already get a group by then.
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I meant to clarify I have no intention to start this right away; I too have a lot of PbPs ongoing, and I wish to concentrate on this Dragon's Demand and disregard nearly everything else.
As for the PFS thing, yeah, I meant campaign mode as in "PFS restrictions don't apply", but you would still receive the four chronicles which you can apply to any character you wish.
@Painlord: I'll get to you next time I'm at my own desktop. My wife's computer has a very obnoxious and horrible keyboard I'd rather not use... better than mobile, sure, but still no good.
My daughters are going to be somewhat late today... f*cking loved the backstory boys!
Oh, and the links - oh the links - was brilliant to be able to read back into your thoughts and tidbits throughout. Thank you so much for bringing it all together like you did. Amazing. Love the avatar you found for Madame Enfer, too. ;-)
Cool cool. Thanks for the kind words, dudes! Steve and I hoped it would be entertaining for more than just our dumb selves :)
Completely unrelated... Steve, I noticed you've stepped out of your Throne of Night game. Does this mean you're keener than usual to do kingdom building in Isle of Dread... or more willing to play Kingmaker?
Glad you guys are enjoying it! I had a lot of fun writing it, I know Chris did too. I don't think I realized how much I enjoyed it until we posted last night...
-Posted with Wayfinder
Completely unrelated... Steve, I noticed you've stepped out of your Throne of Night game. Does this mean you're keener than usual to do kingdom building in Isle of Dread... or more willing to play Kingmaker?
Yes, I would definitely consider it again. I really like the concept of it.
If the Isle of Dread game is keen on it, then I would be interested in trying the kingdom building rules in that game, otherwise I would be up for the actual kingmaker AP down the road as well. I don't know if I can convince myself not to run a cavalier for that AP if we do it... it just feels to perfect. I think I could make one different enough from Pooka that it would still be fun. Definitely some serious consideration on my part if thats a direction we end up going in...
23 posts since August. What, you couldn't keep up with that blistering pace?
I ran a cavalier for Kingmaker. It was perfect. Well, almost. Our "ruler" character was a bard. Talk about an amazing fit.
I will say, though, if I ever ran that, though, I would drive a big f*ck-off over the mass combat system. Any mass combat I've seen in Pathfinder seems to attempt to avoid being a wargame, and in doing so, they try to simplify what is in essence a fairly simple mechanism as is. If you're not keen on or not good at wargames, I guess that's a way for you to not have to bother learning Warhammer or similar... but the way the Kingmaker / Ultimate Campaign mass combat system devolves into to a CHA modifier and a Profession Soldier skill check just pisses me off. The way it also tries to incorporate existing creature stats is confusing and... unbalanced! It breaks my mind, and it breaks my fun.
So, yeah, we won't be running mass combats in Isle or my as yet not even floated Kingmaker game. That's not to say that war and battles won't happen - far from it! That just means that we'll still be playing a roleplaying game when it does.
The idea of mass combat sounds amazing. I have no idea how the mass combat system works in kingmaker, so I don't have a point of reference. However, I will take your word for it that it sucks.
Just as a teaser, I would not be opposed to learning something like warhammer, or whatever other game would be necessary if it made for a fun mass combat.
The cavalier I would likely want to make would be just that, the type of character who would be the charasmatic leader, the one who would be on the front line, leading the charge on his mighty steed!
Loved the LotR books, and then the movies. Massive battles like those are all the more awesome because of the individual actions taken by the heroes. That's where mass combat in Pathfinder falls down, badly. That's where, ultimately, Warhammer would also fall down - you're divorcing the action from your characters that you've worked so hard to cultivate... right at what should be the climax (ie. the massive battle).
That is an excellent point... I like how you see the flow of the battle from overhead, but get to focus in on the ridiculous stuff that each of the characters is able to do to turn the tide of different situations... the Battle at Helm's deep comes to mind. clearing in front of the gate so they could shore up the door, rushing the wall breach so the soldiers could retreat, etc.
And good point about making sure the focus stays on the characters instead of boiling them down to a couple skill checks.
Oh, and the links - oh the links - was brilliant to be able to read back into your thoughts and tidbits throughout. ...
Funny story, after we got done posting we chatted on the phone for a while talking about that. We realized that some of those first niblits of stuff we dropped over a year ago. We had a good laugh about just how long we have been discussing this.
I used to (still do) take my dogs to a field to run them and tire them out. I would give Chris a call and we would talk for an hour or two just spitballing back and forth different ideas, giving the story shape and form, trying to tie in disparate threads, all while still leaving room for more, and for an ending.
There were several times over the last year where we planned in posting it, and then for various reasons wasn't able to do it. I am glad it worked out like it did, timing and everything. I really enjoyed being able to show how much we had been thinking and planning, and how those things came out in our games. Once again, the beauty of PbP that you just can't get anywhere else.
The best part is, we couldn't get them all in. There was something in nearly every game. Half the time it was an afterthought. I would be reacting to something and think... "hey, there is something that has some familiarity... I can squeeze this little thing in here" and because so much of the meat of the story was underdeveloped, none of it felt like forcing. This was some of the most fun I have had writing a story.
... Love the avatar you found for Madame Enfer, too. ;-)
Thanks! I searched for a while, and had to keep going back to your description of her in RoW for reference. Eventually I saw that one and thought, *Perfect!* Glad you like it!
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@Painlord: I'll get to you next time I'm at my own desktop. My wife's computer has a very obnoxious and horrible keyboard I'd rather not use... better than mobile, sure, but still no good./me checks again for updates.
What about the rest of you? Does 'regular' PbP PFS suck? Why?
One thing I dislike is in a game you try and form a bond with the other players, but the posting is quite infrequent (way less than 1 a day in most games) and then the group is over. Here, we have been playing for over a year, every day, multiple posts and games a day. Our characters, even in a new game, bond almost instantly.
We are also very liked-minded individuals. We love the RP, we enjoy the crunch, and we have similar playing styles. Each of us, IMHO, creates dynamic characters that are interesting to us.
Take the other Chris (Not lockwood) someone who you might be less familiar with, or Jyri. With (Other) Chris you have Miro the pacifistic, he has attacked less than 5 times in over a year, Strong Brute who never says much but has a great internal monologue, and Coramus, your cranky Uncle/Grandpa. Each of these characters is fun to read. Jyri has the best dialect of a non-Damien character with Amaranti, Roudantaimi the cool gnome with the awesome gekko, Kuragin the aloof Jadwiga. The same applies to every one of the superstars but you are more familiar with them.
Stephan created a cool character in Delzden that was also fun to read in addition to frequent posts. His character fits into 'our version' of fun.
On the flip side, in Bold Strider's game, I played with a guy who created a Pathfinder versions of Iron Man. Not my cup of tea. Was he a bad roleplayer - no. Did he do a bad job of posting - no. It just didn't fit my play style and did not enjoy it.
Everybody plays for different reasons. Few GMs (except for Damien and APs) recruit. They usually do a first come first serve, or roll for slots. Then you get a luck of the draw and people who are not playing for the same reasons.
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Wow, just wow. Did not expect that. Steve and Lockwood that was truly fantastic. The time to craft, the detail, the twist.
Painlord there were points when I was reading their story and I was like - 'Oh yeah, I remember that' and I clicked on the link and totally remembered the post. That shared experience makes such a difference.
Steve and Lockwood, thank you ever so much for including us. That was awesome.
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By the way, I concur with everything John has to say above. I will add though, for Painlord that it is not restricted to PFS by any means. This is for any PUG you do PbP with. It is the prime reason I wrote my recruitment guide - the group matters, and the care the GM puts into recruiting and running makes all the difference in the world.
Wan't proof? The PbP Superstars (this group). Want further proof? 2 awesome tables of completely new to PbP players for the Confirmation.
I would never (any more) join a game that isn't recruiting selectively.