Basically, I want a decision from the group whether you approach this as a social encounter or as a combat encounter. Both at the same time is not a viable answer, although you can potentially switch from one to the other, maybe even back again.
You may already know all this, but just to give an idea of my thought process:
A social encounter is generally easier to learn more information and conserve resources, although it usually takes longer.
A combat encounter is more risky, because it depletes your spells/hp, and puts you in mortal peril. However a successful fight completely removes any future risk from the individual, and gives access to any items they had on their person.
A social encounter can quickly devolve into a combat if there's an impasse, and a combat can turn into a social encounter after victory has been assured and the target is spared for interrogation.
Reputation isn't important in this AP, but deciding between a peaceful 'ceasefire' and a bloodbath can have positive or negative effects on those who hear of your feats. Brutal killing isn't always bad though, as sparing the life of someone dangerous and (perceived as) unrepentant can definitely cause tension. Sometimes a bloodbath can be mitigated by showing respect to the dead.
Social doesn't always require skill checks, by the way. Enchantment/Illusion/Divination magic can definitely solve problems. Bribes might make a check easier, or maybe remove the need for the check altogether. You may even want to consider getting the enemy to bribe you.
The only thing that I really want to stress here is that either approach is valid, but it has to be done as a team effort.
That was a very thought out answer. Cleo is usually against bloodbaths and brutal killings, so would rather determine exact what is going on before jumping into either.
But she is just one voice, so will delay until we hear from others.
This AP is absolutely written to be one gigantic bloodbath, but the consequences of slaughtering everything is mitigated with the blatant fact that everything killed is so morally reprehensible that they could never be redeemed or integrated into society without posing a huge danger for the people living there.
I personally, detest that in such a large scale. I really enjoy more nuance to an adventure, and six books of murder and no questions asked is really bland, and kind of bleak. But likewise, I would detest the opposite of trying to save, redeem, and question everything that moves.
That being said, I don't really want to tell you which approach is right or wrong. It's very situational, and also depends on both desire and morality.
Wabbits not a vengeful, all-out my way or the highway(Lawful stupid) paladin. He's actually kinda curious about what makes people tick or go bad, lose their way. He believes some can be redeemed. NONE of that means that he won't seek to end this guys life if he thinks, letting him go will be a clear and present danger to society.
Wabbit is cool with beginning this as a talking (social encounter), of course he reserves the right to switch over to combat mode if villain is irredeemably evil and dangerous to society as a whole.
Talking and potentially gaining more information can't be a bad thing. Won't necessarily change the outcome....but who knows, it might.
Well we will burn out our buffs no doubt
@Wabbit, yeah I get you. This isn't a commitment to forever stay in social. Instead it's an agreement to start there.
Furnok is correct. You have less than a minute of Haste, and 2 minutes of DR/BigHammer, and 4 minutes of Fly. Poor Andreste.
first step is to see what the evildar says, then we could always 'subdue' him if he is dripping evil, instead of crushing his skull.
Andreste follows the lead of the others (at least in this case) and chooses talking over fighting, although she does have a mental timer ticking down on the spells she's casted and is weary of the possibility the enemy (even if unseen right now) is waiting us out.
I'm not quite ready to jump in as I have a new irritation in having lost my glasses. But I'm weighing in on the side of social encounters
Thank you Janis and everyone else for your input. I'm glad people are willing to be flexible.
As Wabbit's detect evil may convey, I don't expect this social aspect to last very long. In this situation at least
Yah, that's gonna make it a bit tough to keep gabbing when/if revealed to the rest of us.
;)
yeah..it'll be revealed. Just want more info from it first if possible
Man. My luck is so bad recently I'm amazed I didn't get Covid.
Man. I really need to update my sheet. Still have the money from the resurrection don't have my cloak of Elven kind
Was going to post something a bit longer with an offer to tempt the devil, but really not sure how offering more than we need to would be smart.
Achievement unlocked: Deal with the Devil
I will miss only needing to sleep two hours a night. :)
Only needing two hours a night to sleep.
On one hand, this is such a great thing.
On the other hand, this is such a sad thing.
Achievement unlocked: Deal with the Devil
participating in Evil Gods Ritual =check
Making a deal with an actual Devil=checkWabbits not very good at this paladin thing
Only needing two hours a night to sleep.
On one hand, this is such a great thing.
On the other hand, this is such a sad thing.
I think it would be AMAZING! I'm a Firefighter and work 24hr shifts and frequently come home the morning after work and sleep my day away, wasting it due to sleep deprivation.
I would pay a LOT IRL for that item
That makes a lot of sense, Wabbit. I can see why you and so many people would want it, myself included.
On one hand, I'd have all the time in the world to do the things I want.
On the other hand, I'd have all the time in the world to procrastinate and wait as the clock ticks.
Btw I like flawed paladins. I play two of them myself.
We could just make a mess and leave. Spill some blood. Make her believe we were defeated while we go prepare.
That's very smart, Janis. It's not a behaviour I see very often.
Janis you do not need to take all the amount off for the resurrection.
I have no idea how much she paid so far on the resurrection cost, just how much she still owes. 2250. So subtract what you were by that to keep.
I'm getting a sense that this (Cleo wanting to repay Janis, but Janis refusing) is a player issue, not a character issue. I think this needs to be solved diplomatically before it becomes a big problem. Can you two sort this out yourselves in an amicable fashion, or do I need to mediate, or even make a final judgement?
Cleo as a character would not happily accept thousands of gold pieces as charity.
As a player yes I can change her mind.
As a player though, I have already admitted to being irked at the death in the first place, coupled with the fact I already went through the trouble of selling every magic item and masterwork anything she owned to pay the debt as much as I could and do not wish to go through of figuring out what all that is, would prefer to pay you back, Janis.
Cleo does little more in combat than her magic whereas you are one of the major damage dealers. Her current gear value of 1265 (750 of that being a wand of cure light wounds) is not debilitating.
I truly and deeply thank you for the generous offer but would like to decline it (if it does not offend too much). I don't wish to offend you at all, in any way.
I was only commenting on my laziness of making adjustments
If Janis doesn't have a moral issue with Cleo repaying, can you overcome this feeling of laziness to make the appropriate adjustments?
I think Wabbit is the only one who would recognize her. His backstory includes visiting Sandpoint on multiple occasions to work with Sheriff Hemlock. Madame Mvashti was kidnapped by a Devil before our Sandpoint heroes showed up for the Swallowtail Festival.
Now you can see why I dedicated this portion of the AP to Brelin.
I hope they are doing well out there in RL. True, Cleo would not have recognized even though she noticed that she was focusing on the bad people.
Yes, and I wish that for all of our other previous players too.
This is a tiny pull behind the curtain, but I always wondered with the original version of Xanesha, how did she figure out who was greedy? Especially the ones all the way in Sandpoint? Brelin's backstory gave me the perfect solution, although I did have to restat Madame Mvashti in order to do it. When this book was re-written, we didn't even have alchemists yet. Now we're the outdated system.
5 years and 2 days ago was the first gameplay post of this lovely adventure. Five YEARS!!! :)
If I had not said it in a while, thank you for picking a halfling cleric with very little backstory for your game back then, Treasure.
You're very welcome! I took a look and I still have my analysis of all the people who applied back then. I looked at your's too. I can show it to you if you'd like.
That would be lovely, thank you.
Character Name:
Cleo Gingerberry
Player:
John Gs
Basic story:
Ordinary upbringing. Needs to get away from family. Came to see to unveiling new cathedral in Sandpoint.
Class:
Cleric of Erastil
Race:
Halfling
Alignment:
LG
DM thoughts:
Seems like a really sweet character. Could be tied with Father Zantus with ease, and would naturally adventure to save the town.
Campaign Trait:
Student of Faith
Stats:
Solid
Party Role:
Divine Caster / Healer / Ranger
Posting Rate:
Few / Day
Character Death:
No Problem
Map Preference:
None Stated
Joining Later:
Anytime
Personal Thoughts:
I really like this character. The only drawback is I don't know much about her likes or dislikes. How she came to worship Erastil, among other things. I could also REALLY use a healer of sorts, and I think she's the only real option.
---------------------------------
You may be thinking: "You picked me because I'm a healer?" Well look, I had 25 applicants, and the next best healer was an Ulfen oracle of metal who travelled from the Linnorms all the way down to southern Varisia for the festival simply because he heard it was good. The next best was a witch-hunting oath-of-vengeance paladin. After that was the feral shifter druid. I didn't exactly have a lot to work with.
:) I can't exactly complain since if I remember correctly I picked a simple cleric cause I thought it gave me the best chance.
You're the only one who was clearly a healer. Everyone else was at best a healing-on-the-side choice. While I'm not a stickler for party roles, I really did want a dedicated healer in the group. I could run a game for four fighter-types, but the game would look unbelievably different.
And eventually we did figure out a basic backstory for you anyways. So it worked out.
Hmm, I would very much like to see Maria's to see how much she differed from expectations.
Also,sorry I'm not dong anything, I have to strain to see from my current setup since I lost my glasses.
Character Name:
Maria
Player:
Korak the Boisterous
Basic story:
Raised as a gang member and a thief. She never wanted to hurt people, but the gang did not feel that way. She ran and ended up in Sandpoint.
Class:
Rogue
Race:
Human
Alignment:
TN
DM Thoughts:
Not much in the way of character ties or strong motivations. Would like to know more about the character
Campaign Trait:
Did not Take
Stats:
Solid
Party Role:
Face / Sneak
Posting Rate:
Tons
Character Death:
Dramatic
Map Preference:
Theater
Joining Later:
Early Only
Personal Thoughts:
Has been contributing to the thread so darn much, and has made friends with Ali and Vandra. Has a fairly good mindset, and would definitely work within a party.
-------------------
No worries, I'll take care of it. You'd generally prefer if Janis stayed in the midline and use ranged feint to get sneak attack in every 2 rounds, yeah? Or is there more to the strategy?
Whatever works at the time. Right now I'm just hoping this optometrist over here will take my insurance, if so, Ishould hopefully have new glasses in a week or two.
Alright y'all don't forget your hasted.
Alright y'all don't forget your hasted.
Darn it ....i totally forgot about that. With the speed bonus from Haste Wabbit would have not needed to move full speed to Xanesha and therefore would not have added +10 to the DC to avoid the AOO.....My bad..that hurt
Haste adds in 1 to ac, reflexes, and attack rolls too
Ok I forgot the buff you gave me and in return you forgot the one I gave you lol
EVERYONE please remember you ALL have Outflank and particularly when Wabbit is climbing all over a foe...Outflank +4 applies to anyone he is climbing on.
Also, Outflank provides an AOO when crit is confirmed...So if Wabbits Crit is confirmed and both Andreste and Furnok are in melee range they'll both get AOOs
@FOX
at the bottom of Wabbits character sheet I created a section
=========Notes for Fox=============
where I put spoilers for Limb CLimber, Underfoot Assault, Dirty Tricks, and the most common condition Wabbit uses with Dirty tricks(Blindness)
I put those notes there for you to reference easily so I can post without including those descriptions in spoilers which is difficult for me on my cell.
Wabbits attack patterns are difficult enough for me to post w/o having to copy and paste all those descriptions.
If you have any suggestions on what would make it as easy as possible for both of us regarding Wabbits complicated posts I'm all ears
@Andreste, did you cast haste after the deal with the devil and I missed it? Or are you referring to just before you met Lucian?
@Andreste 2, the sea hag was 10ft away from you last turn, so regardless of reach her 5ft step was enough to close the distance and full attack.
@Wabbit, Thank you Wabbit. I come across dirty tricks and blindness often, and have solid knowledge of how they work. In a pinch, I can access them very easily. Things like Limb Climber, Underfoot Assault, Dutiful Strike, Outflank, these are much more niche. I don't have them memorized and I am not familiar with the way they interact with one another. Putting them in the bottom of your character sheet is great. If they're described in your character sheet, then I don't need them posted in gameplay. I can look them up through your character sheet. I use everyone's character sheets possibly more often then the respective player does. Posting any links or descriptions in gameplay is simply a courtesy, not a requirement.
Okay, thank you. No worries, I just didn't catch it
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I want to thank you. I don't think we say it enough. Thank you for DMing for us, for homebrewing for us, to being open to more than just combat solutions. You've taken us on a wonderful ride and I look forward to many more years together.
Thank you Janis, that means a lot to me. I love what I do, and I'm very thankful to have you all with me on this journey. I hope to see you standing over Karzoug's smoking corpse, and maybe even beyond that. That's a long time from now, hopefully not another 5+ years, but definitely long enough to keep having a wonderful ride.
Here is the beginning of our day if that helps at all
https://paizo.com/campaigns/TreasurefoxsRiseOfTheRunelords/gameplay&pag e=168#8390