The best games I've played or run for Savage Worlds have been Fallout based games. Any similar concept would work just as well, but the setting has that perfect mix of both high AND low tech, and light supernatural elements that makes even out-of-the-box core Savage Worlds work perfectly.
I still frequently miss GreenTeaGamer's Savage Fallout game.
I am really sorry to see this game die. I think this is the longest PbP game I've ever been in, and I have enjoyed it tremendously. For me personally I hadn't posted in a while because it seemed that Jingu and Arsenio were the only ones who needed to be posting, and Burgurk was just waiting for some decisions to be made.
I don't know if anyone will even see this, but is there any chance we could continue? Speed Jinju thru his mission, then start a new goal that involves all of us. With all of us engaged, postings should be a lot more frequent.
I am just as sad to see it go as well. I had pretty much made up my mind, as I do have to pay attention to how much time I can give as well. You have been here the longest Burgurk, and with that in mind, I am willing to help it along a bit longer, but under two circumstances.
One, I'm not recruiting more people. Too many seems to make it even slower than even I would like and people tend to forget what's going on and so we spend more time recapping. If we end up with only one or two left after a while, I'm okay with that.
Second, I will need everyone's help with the 48 hour rule. If we are waiting on someone for more than 48 hours, we assume a basic positive response and move on.
If you guys are amenable to that, we will finish up Jingu's mission and get everyone who stays back to a new starting point.
I am really sorry to see this game die. I think this is the longest PbP game I've ever been in, and I have enjoyed it tremendously. For me personally I hadn't posted in a while because it seemed that Jingu and Arsenio were the only ones who needed to be posting, and Burgurk was just waiting for some decisions to be made.
My last post (directed at the party; especially Josiah) went pretty much unremarked, and TBH I had no other ideas in this situation besides bunker down and booby trap the town.
I always like other player feedback on potential plans, even (honestly, especially) if my character is nominally in command.
DM SBM, thank you! You might consider PM'ing everyone in the game, as many who read your "let's end the game" post might not be checking either Gameplay or Discussion here anymore...
I sometimes disappear for 2 or 3 days due to work, but I will make every effort to check every day if possible. But still, I can only post when Burgurk is directly involved in the current situation.
Well, as I said, we will keep going as we can. Perhaps as more drop off, the interactions will actually increase and we can get things moving at the pace they had been. I know I am usually gone on the weekends (family time) but on weekday mornings, I try to post as I can, at least once and on rare occasions more than once. That said, I am going to go check the Gameplay and see where we can go.
Would Rigor be all right with people "assuming direct control" of Josiah as needed? His skillset is pretty crucial.
Not necessarily, but he is under you command. You can also just instruct him to do something, and I can make the rolls. Either way. His skill set was designed that way, to be a solid background, "fix everything" or "build the special tool" kind of character.
Wasn't the tower already put back together? I thought that was why we were able to call back to HQ?
You are right. It has been a while, and I forgot that it was actually finished. I'll revise my post.
I can't think of anything I want from the store, but this raises an interesting question : does anyone know how much money we've gained so far? I have a note in my PC page of "+ 7800 (first mission) + 5400 (second mission)", but how many missions have we had since, and what did we get from them?
You guys haven't been paid yet. I'll have to look at my notes and see when the last time was, but I thought it was recent. You should be getting paid every Friday in game. Searching...
Let's just do this, it's still Sunday, December 3rd. I'm going to say all of you have had at least a months pay by now, so in the Campaign Tab, next to your names is the weekly pay based on your rank and grade. Multiply that by 4 and add it to your current funds. Oh and everyone still here gets 3xp.
I'm trying to remember how much XP we have, I think I forgot to write it down.
I have 19 XP, but I was one of the first players in the game...
It seems clear that if we're going to be able to afford the very-high-priced items in RIFTS, we won't do it from our salary. We need to scavenge things from our defeated enemies and try to sell them. I'm pretty sure that's where my first two credits increments came from.
In SWADE, the payscale has been updated to reflect experience instead of rank (at least in my version). It is a bit metagamy, but I think it works out a bit better.
Novice: 300/week
Seasoned: 450/week
Veteran: 600/week
Heroic: 1000/week
Legen (wait for it) dary: 2000/week
Hazardous Mission Bonus: +2500-10000
Special Success Bonus: +5000-25000
However, I think the bolded section is the most important one. As we are almost constantly fighting, danger pay would seem to be valid. As an emergent, Resistance/Revolutionary style startup, I think a system of passing on rewards, or finder's fees, would make a lot of sense. Perhaps a system of value based on the value of resources recovered, and a lesser fee for value of equipment destroyed or removed from the enemy.
The cost of items in the game being so ludicrously disproportionate to our pay is a problem, particularly since we are all providing our own equipment in this strange military. Unless an item is handed to us on mission, we have no other way of ever upgrading our gear.
I was looking at the ranks assigned on the campaign tab, and not sure I agree with them. I know our GM did active service with the Americans, so probably understands rank structure a lot better than I do, but I think a change of premise might be valid; we are not a standard infantry squad.
I think it might also be a mistake to view the Legion as analogous to a modern day military, when everyone starts as E1 or O1 and gets all their training from their service branch. I think it makes more sense to view them like a revolutionary force or resistance organization. Ranks can be assigned on skills and resources brought to the group. I find it very hard tp believe that they would look at a Glitterboy Pilot, with his own mech, and say, "Welcome aboard, Private, you'll be taking your lead from Coperal goober over there."
Now I don't think it would quite be Return of the Jedi level nonsense either, where Generalships are handed out to every squad leader, but I think the assumption everyone starts at the bottom would be flawed.
Did a little research, and my impression is that these exploratory teams are likely regarded as a specialized role, similar to a special forces team, like a Green Beret ODA. In pretty much all the branches, E3 is the bare minimum needed to qualify for Special Forces teams, and even then it is usually as a trainee/junior member, so I think that is the rank I'd give to our NPC troopers. I think most PCs would be at least E4 Specialist or Lance Sargent. When i look up tha standard makeup of an ODA, a 12-14 member team is typically all E4 and above. Our Sergeant (Burgerk) would probably be E6 Master Sergeant, and since we have a Captain leading the team (though for our team size, an O2 Lieutenant would probably be more appropriate), a junior officer would probably make sense as well (either an O1 Ensign or O2 Lieutenant according to the Legion rank page). Sun-Li would have been a good candidate for that, given his Intelligence background/focus, but if not him, Jingu might be a good fit on the same grounds.
I could see lower ranks for character classes based on things done to them (external enhancements), such as Borgs and Juicers, but the specifics might vary, based on their background stories. Classes based on things they bring to the table, particularly practitioners, would probably be Warrant Officers or CO's, based on skills.
Josiah would almost certainly be a W3 Master Warrant Officer, based on the description in the book ("WO lead only technical and vehicle crews, none others").
Based on the W2 description, "WO are often arcanists, Operators, pilots, and warriors," I would put Bergurk, Jingu, and Sun-Li at least there.
Not sure where the WO fall in chain of command in this schema (in Canada they are above Sergeants, but below commissioned officers).
So, how I would assign ranks would probably be this:
Arsenio Deloso: O2 Lieutenant
Sun Li Toa: O1 Ensign
Burgurk: E6 Master Sergeant
Josiah Oates: W3 Master Warrant Officer
Jingu: W2 Senior Warrant Officer
Jason Witlock: E4 Lance Sergeant
Jace Belleraphon: E4 Legionnaire Specialist
Thoughts?
On the topic of XP, I found this post:24 Xp as of July 2021
With the 3 just awarded, that should take us to at least 27 now, if not more.
Woo-hoo! 2 Advances, and now I'm Seasoned!
Not to be greedy, but that was a full year (IRL) ago. I don't know how much we did in game-time, but only 3 XP since then?
I did a deep-dive myself, and found :
"some XP" awarded April 2020 (I didn't go back any further than this)
3 XP June 2020
3 XP Mar 2021
5 XP and "Seasoned" May 2021
...ok, scratch all that. I saw the GM reference his "Campaign Tab notes" in an old post and found this :
M7- Recon in Force Hollis’ Hellions- Complete, 5 XP, 24 Total, Seasoned.
M8- Recapture Garnet Town and Setup Comms Tower, 3 XP, 27 total, Seasoned.
So, yeah, we're at 27. I somehow missed/dropped the 5 XP that took us to Seasoned. And my old 19 plus the 5 XP in May 2021 gives us the "24 XP as of July 2021" that Jingu found.
I sort of confused myself about the Advances, because 27-19=8 is only enough for 1 Advance. But if you break it down step-by-step :
19+5 = 24 = Advance (at 20)
24+3 = 27 = Advance (at 25)
I am open to discussing a few changes to the structure of the team, as it seems that few of you are interested in having a whole platoon behind you. Especially since some of you can handle a basic CS infantry platoon by yourself.
I changed the ranking of some of the characters when we went from SWEX to SWADE. I also had to account for the fact the when we recruited Deloso, he was already a Captain in the other game, so I left him at that. Two things to keep in mind about the military, especially one like the Legion. While there are guidelines to the ranking and responsibilities thereof, they are just that, guidelines. In SpecOps teams, there is always a command officer, but the rest are there based on their specialty, not their rank. Their rank only matters back at base and on their paycheck.
The Legion Special Exploration, which by default it is assumed that everyone is a part of, exists only partially within the normal rank structure. That is why Deloso only has a platoon and not a full company under his command. It could also be said that he chose not to take up responsibility for a full company when he was promoted. Or any number of other in game reasons. The Legion is about 6 months old at this point, so it is still learning.
As for the rest:
Sun Li Tao: W1- he has a special talent and was a member of the CS for a time. They will not give him a command rank without further seeing to his loyalty, especially since he is an intelligence operative.
Burgurk: E4- He did not want to be in command of the whole team, even though he was for short time. He was the minimum enlisted rank to lead a fire team prior to the change to SWADE, so this current rank is the same.
Josiah Oates: W2- Josiah drives and fixes things. As he has special talents, he was given a warrant instead of enlisted rank. W3 would be if he had a crew of drivers and mechanics.
Jingu: E3- I left him an enlisted as Josiah already has a warrant rank and I didn't want to have to worry about a player having two officers to deal with. That said, I could see Jingu being offered a warrant, especially after that last solo mission.
Jason Whitlock: E3- I could acquiesce to a promotion for him once you get back to Refuge, as currently, he is leading a fire team of his own.
Jace Belleraphon: E3- Jace is GMPC that I brought from the game with Deloso and as such, I didn't want him overshadowing the players.
Mostly, the changes in rank also reflected my work around for all the ranks the Extras already had. As I said, I amenable to some changes, but for the most part, especially since the Extras will probably go away soon so you guys can focus on staying a tight knit elite team instead of command staff, the ranks should be pretty solid until promotion time comes along. Note that yes, if this were a full Special Team, all of the Extras would be at least E4 plus. They were reinforcements for an earlier mission on detachment from 2nd Battalion. They are not SpecOps trained.
As far as the money goes, I simply did the math as mentioned in the SWADE book. SW rank + grade x10%, 20% for officers. I have not, to my recollection, added in mission bonuses for anyone as of yet. One thing to keep in mind is that the low income is due to the fact that most of the money goes to pay for the free housing, repairs, medical and ammo that you get every time you return to Castle Refuge or you happen across a Legion unit in the Field. I was going to add in some bonuses for the last mission, but hadn't yet. Since we are somewhat starting anew, I am going to give everyone another 10k to add to their money pools. For equipment brought back and some dangerous missions you have been on.
As for the experience, we had this discussion awhile back and I have been basing it on mission completion. The SWADE Rules recommend 3-5 per session, but as this is PbP, it is a bit difficult to define when a session begins and ends. So as I said, I've been doing it by mission. So, you have it right, everyone should be at 27 total.
I did say that we are in essence, starting anew, so we can make changes here, pending any further discussion.
I would only point out that if this were an in-person game, one mission would probably last at least several sessions, if not more.
I mean, it took *4 years* in real-time for me to just make Seasoned?
Thanks for the extra 10k, but I still can't afford anything useful/fun from the playbook. Not when such things *start* at 30k and go up to 100k.... I'd like to improve my armor, but the items with more armor than I currently have are in the 40-60k range.
I'm really not trying to be critical, this is the longest PbP game I've been in, and the highest rank any of my PC's has ever made, so I'm very grateful that we're even still playing.
Just curious, does any PC still in the game have the Healing Power (not skill)? If not, Burgurk will use one of his Advancements to have it on hand...
Josiah does. Jingu does as well, but his version has the "Self" limitation.
Fair enough Burgurk, but also remember that I am also working to keep the game balanced for everyone and also make the Gameworld as bleak as it should be. Any new gear that expensive may have to be requisitioned, looted or stolen. There is still some CS gear lying around and if you could find someone to sell it to...
Are we using the new SWADE Common Knowledge rolls or the new ones? I forget whether we updated this game to SWADE or not. If so, everyone sucks at it lol. Unless they retrained some skill points anyway.
I'm out camping at present. I get some spotty internet access, but it is unreliable. Bot me if necessary.
Josie takes a long, grim look at the carnage, and spits on the ground.
All he says is, "That ain't right."
With that he heads back to Elsie, and opening one of the storage compartments starts breaking out entrenching tools. He hands one to Jingu, gives a long significant glance to the troops and the remaining pile of tools, and moves off to a flat level spot and starts digging graves.
After a minute, Jingu joins him.
Yep, we've upgraded to SWADE. Jingu, I'll bot as necessary, should the need arise.
Drat. I really like SWADE, actually, but now I have to kick myself for not reallocating a bunch of skill points lol.
Trying to figure out what to do woth Jingu's advance. Lots of options, but seeing how fast I burn through ISP, Extra Powerpoints may be my best bang for buck.
So maybe a weird question, but how does XP work in SWADE anyway?
As far as I can tell the game actually did away with XP in SWADE. I was trying to find the XP rules while running my own game last week and never found them. I'm pretty sure they changed it to just milestone Advances.
I had totally forgotten that we agreed to switch to SWADE, at least for our PC's non-RIFTS stats (because SWADE RIFTS nerfed all the frameworks).
When converting a SWD PC to SWADE, you pretty much have to re-allocate the skill points since they give you a d4 in 5 skills for free, and there's new skills to allocate points to.
SBM, is it ok if Storm Dragon and I re-allocate our skill points?
Also, Storm Dragon is correct, SWADE just allocates Advances, not XP. So a while ago the XP that got us to Seasoned gave us an Advance (for those of us who forgot to take that Advance, like me), and the XP you just gave us gives us another Advance.
I'm pretty sure I actually did reallocate my skillpoints, because Arsenio used to have Streetwise (the skill) but now has Streetwise (the Edge). I think I just forgot about Common Knowledge being a skill now.
I can count them later to be sure.
I must have glossed over the experience section of SWADE because it looked similar to the SWEX one. You are right, there are no XP, only Advances and by my calculation, you should be at 5, but in the interest of making things even, I'll make it six and you guys can update your characters with the extra points because of the Basic Skills rules.
SBM, I'd like to run an idea by you. While Burgurk's archetype is patterned after Bursters, which don't have access to the Invisibility Power, since Burgurk is using force fields, I was wondering if you'd allow him to take it? He would be using force fields to hide himself from sight. I'd totally understand if you don't want to do this. Thanks!
I am going to say yes, with a caveat. If you take Invisibility, you lose access to Farsight. One Seasoned Power for another.
Ok, thanks. Another question, about us "using SWADE" : are we using SWADE Core Powers with all the modifiers, or still using SWD Core Powers? Since we decided to keep the SWD RIFTS frameworks, which use the Core Powers, I can't make an argument either way. I know the SWADE RIFTS frameworks were heavily nerfed, but I don't know about the Core Powers.
I've been using SWADE powers exclusively. I don't know that it is accurate to say abilities were nerfed. The broken Quickness power certainly was, but it needed it as the old version was totally broken. Most others have been altered more subtly. I'd call it a rebalancing as opposed to a straight up nerfing.
I wasn't saying the Core Powers were nerfed, but the new RIFTS frameworks are significantly toned down in power compared to the SWD versions.
We should be using the SWADE powers, as they have been rebalanced for everything else in SWADE. I’m certain there are some outlier cases, but we haven’t ran into them in this game yet.
The SWADE powers are largely unchanged ffrom what I know, save the streamlining and buffing of a few (eg. Flight) and nerfing Quickness.
I think what Burgurk is referring to was mostly his TK Bolt abilities, which were based on the Deluxe Edition version of the Burster, which did get a pretty significant nerfing. They had a 6d6 Fireball upgradable to a 6d8 Fireball which was upgradable to an rof 3, large burst template Fireball, all with no ISP cost.
The SWADE version does 3d6 for an isp (4d6 with 2), area afrect with +1, 2, or 4 IsP, and max rof 2.
Burgurk said he'd switch to Swade, but on on the condition grandfathered in his original power.
Ah, yeah. I wouldn't be playing a SWADE Burster TBH. I already thought they were pretty middling damage-wise, not sure why they had their damage HALVED.
It was a trend across the powers for some reason, damage dealing powers were all reduced a bit, including Psi-Sword and others. One thing I thought was odd was that weapons all seemed to have a slight increase in damage (a lot of 3d6 weapons got bumped to 4d6, etc).
Yeah, I was very disappointed in the SWADE RIFT's starting Cyber-Knight compared to SWD.
Rigor - please check your PM, thanks!
So, Force Blast has the range of my Greater Force Bolt, which is 15/40/60. Major Psionics allows me to spend 2 ISP to increase that range by 10, so 150/400/600. You said 172/178 yards, which is 86/89", so no Range penalty. For 2 ISP, Force Blast can cover a Large Burst Template with the damage of Greater Force Bolt with an ROF of 3 from Rapid Force Bolt...[/ooc]
Hey Burgurk, wondering where you got this from? I'm trying to figure out if Josie can rig up a Dispel cannon to take out the barge's shield and cloak simultaneously, but the range of it is too short for him, and he's not sturdy enough to try and get close. The regular Range modifier only gives you double range for 1, and triple range for 2. I'd like to rig up something for long range, even if it only gives him one to two shots.
GM, he has Master of Magic, if you want to give me a reasonable cost for a long range mod...
It's an SWD RIFTS thing, not a core rules thing. The Major Psionics Edge allows the user to spend 1 ISP to double the range of a power (which in this case is also an SWD RIFTS power), or for 2 ISP to multiply it by 10(!).
So, any players have any idea on how to handle the invisible barge? Is there anything in SW core or RIFTS that can "see invisible"?
DM, how do we handle this mechanically? If I do a Force Blast at a point where I think the barge has moved to (given its last known location, bearing, and speed), would I roll Psionics to make the power happen, then subtract 8 to hit it? Would that penalty be reduced since I'm blowing up a 6" diameter area? If so, by how much? Thanks!
Dispel has an area affect ability that could work, knocking out all effects running within a burst template. It would drop the invisibility and the shield, though the shield would likely be back after a round or two, and nothing would stop the Splugorth from just recasting the invisibility.
Exalted Darksight is also an option, but likely only for Jingu and Josiah, as it is a Mega Power. It states that you can use it to see through invisibility. The flavour text says that this is because you can see so far into the IR and UV ranges, which makes me wonder if you had another way to see those spectrums, like a multioptcis helmet or vehicle sensor suite, you would also be able to see them.
Here is what invisibility says about attacking:
With a success, the character is transparent except for a vague blur or outline. An enemy may detect the near-invisible presence if he has a reason to look and makes a Notice roll at −4. Once detected, he may attack the foe at −4 as well. With a raise, the character is much less detectable. The penalty to Notice or hit him is −6.
The text for the mega-power flat out says that Invisibility only applies to normal vision, and that enhanced vision is unaffected. Unfortunately, Slugorth can use True Invisibility, which the GM wouldn't necessarily have to have specified. It is an expensive power, so the slimeball may have used standard to save PPE, or the two may have made different choices.
TRUE INVISIBILITY (+5): Invisibility
applies to normal sight-based Notice checks; True Invisibility applies to all senses, including mystical, technological, or greatly enhanced ones. True Invisibility also makes it impossible for most means of scrying or other detection to find the character, including divination. The recipient cannot be seen or detected by any means unless he takes actions that arouse suspicion or attacks someone. In that circumstance, any attempt to detect or attack the character with True Invisibility is made at −6. Additionally, those using detect arcana may detect them at a −2 penalty, and those using Exalted Detect Arcana and Exalted Darksight roll to detect at no penalty. Characters using those powers modifiers who detect the target can see him normally for the remainder of the encounter.
Note that it also says it can be penetrated with Detect Arcana, implying that you could locate them by tracing the magic they are using to appear invisible. It is a multi-action penalty, but -2 is better than the -4 or -6 typical of the type of invisibility.
Jingu pretty much has the right of it, but let me add this from the GM Handbook: As a general rule, Invisibility from psionic or magic sources is NOT (emphasis mine) effective against enhanced tech sensors, such as thermal imaging or radar. True Invisibility is effective against all forms. The Splugorth can use True Invisibility, but as Jingu said, it is expensive. So by default, those of you with such sensors or other types of vision can still see them, but your troops can not.
Does access to Darksight, Farsight, and Detect Arcana allow me to see the invisible barge?
In SW spaceships, shields absorb incoming attacks until their shield value drops to 0, at which point the ship can be damaged. Does the shield Power work this way too?