Eko
Arak
Both ready for combat.
Aurum is good to go.
EDIT: Although I will be traveling all day tomorrow so I won't be able to start until tomorrow night at the earliest. If that is too long I can sit this round out.
It seems that there are some parts of certain books that aren't fully up-to-date on http://www.d20pfsrd.com/, and it seems silly to only allow certain parts of certain books, so any book that is available via that sight (in any way) will also have its other parts allowed. I discovered this when I realized that while there are feats/spells/traits on the srd from Orcs of Golarion, the Tusked trait was missing. It is in the above link, so hopefully that site be a good way to patch up any major holes.
Interesting. Good find.
Shova is ready. Sorry about disappearing. Did I miss my fight? (If not, where do I go?)
BTW, story-wise are we captives or volunteers?
To the best of my knowledge, I think we're volunteers. The purpose of the games probably has something to do with the lich that runs things, though to what end, who knows? Perhaps analyzing combat tactics, so as to better counter adventurers who would seek to end Jehova's unlife?
Shova's fight is here. I haven't heard as to whether it was definitely canceled or not, so if you're ready to start, I certainly have no problem doing so.
Edit: Whoops, nevermind, I see Jehova edited and is fine with leaving it to run. So yep, feel free to start whenever you like :P
I don't think there's much of a story here. To the best of my knowledge, it's an excuse to get in here and beat heads and try to advance.
Though the whole lich-dom discussion did happen, i guess. :)
Funny, I don't find Mystic Past Life to be all that broken (then again, I think of it mostly for getting things that aren't on your spell list, not for getting spells at a lower level).
But, considering you're getting, at most, 5 specific spells from other lists, you're either getting low level ones where they aren't a huge difference, or high level ones, where you're still waiting a fairly long while before you get access to them.
In the case of discounted ones, it's nice, I admit, but such as your SMVIII example, at earliest you'll be picking that up at level 11 as a wizard, and getting a CR 11 critter, which is still subject to the usual Dismissal or Protection from X, and the spell is still a 1 round casting time. And, while I haven't really looked, I can't think of anything that's a larger change in level than that one.
You can get 6, it's casting stat+1.
Think about it as improved magical linage for 6 spells. You can essentially go with one early entry each level. Maze, SM VII, Spell turning, baleful polymorph, black tentacles, slow and improved invisibility sound like good picks. But I'll have to think about it further.
@Jehova: I think I will take Kirk offline for now, I'm too lazy updating him atm, and I need to think about my mystic past life :)
Btw: does terrible remorse steal standard actions if the victim makes his save?
Oh hey, it is 6 max.
Still, my reasoning on it is the same as before. It's true you can get early entry to several spells, but on a full caster taking from a shortened list, it's still not going to get you access to them until 2 or possibly 4 levels below when you could get them yourself (if you're taking things that are already on your normal spell list), which isn't all that big of a difference.
Again, it's nice, I just don't think it's bordering on 'broken' in any way.
Regarding Terrible Remorse, looks to me like it goes:
Failed save = Spend standard action hurting self
Successful save = Staggered for 1 round.
So if they make their save, they don't lose their standard action, they're just staggered.
You tossing up another glad in his place? Or just taking a breather on this round while you mess with Kirk?
@Darkwolf: I think 4 levels below is a huge benefit. But Jehova allows is so I better start min/maxing :)
@Eben: I'll take a breather. If I got things right Jehova will start the real arena this weekend anyway. So I will take my time to mess with Kirk (need to pick mystic pastlife, think about sleep+GDC, think about partially charged wands etc.).
No problem. I was just wondering if you wanted to enter something for this round of fights. Sounds like that's a no. :)
Becoming Brunette?
ba-dum-TSSSSSSSS
Rolg will see a few minor mods as well.
Live arena? Did I miss something?
Looks like you missed Arak about 8 times. ZIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNGGG!
But seriously, this is the testing phase of these arena rules. Jehova hopes to go live soon.
Yeah yeah lol ;-)
Gotcha, will there be a difference between here and live?
The 'full version' should simply be a bit less loose, have consolidated rules, and not have way much more houseruling done after it starts.
This weekend is the end of my crunch time, so after that my personal sailing should be far smoother and things will hopefully be moderated more thoroughly. I also plan to keep all of the character data in one place for easy bookkeeping and rules-checking. Stuff that needs to be finished before officially starting is mostly just the creation of a full and unified rulebook, drawn from the original post, further ideas I've had, and the discussion throughout this thread [oh my goodness there are over 1000 posts].
There have also been a few questions that haven't been completely answered, so I need to confirm the answers to those and put them somewhere, like a FAQ page or something. The arena shouldn't change appreciably in terms of gameplay, only some (corner case) rule clarification should occur.
As for story, this is planned to be a head-smashing-together environment, but nothings exists in a vacuum, and I welcome the story that naturally tends to arise when you smush a bunch of characters together. The world is not Golarion, and the forces in control of the arena are not well known to ye lowly gladiators. Perhaps as you advance through the ranks there will be some further clues as to the true purpose of this (probably incredibly expensive) exercise in violence.
...(probably incredibly expensive) exercise in violence.
I still think the arena runs on Blood Wishes. And since an undead can't fuel such things on their own, to that end, they'd need some large and organized operation or something as a cover :P
Random topic change, just want to note that I find it quite awesome that Jehova has set up such a good arena, stuck with it this long (and to think, the 'real' one hasn't even started yet), and run things so smoothly and all that jazz. Done a good job on it all in my opinion, and it's very much appreciated - at least by me, and I'd figure probably most of the others here. So, I'm not sure if it's been said enough in these 1000+ posts, but thanks :P
Well said, Darkwolf.
So thanks for all your work, Jehova. :)
Here Here Jehova!!
An excellent arena indeed.
*bows flamboyantly*
On that flattering note, let's take a look at the roster for this next round:
m'Shimu
Arak
Bruno
Aurum
Kailin
Eko
Mark and Spock are sitting out, I believe the Roughnecks are leaving for good (though they'll be welcome back any time), and Shova and Syken are already in battle.
Would anyone object to me tossing in a wildcard combatant of my own at some point? I have so very many ideas that sit neglected since I'm running the arena and know everyone's characters. This guy would use fairly basic tactics, however, and would not base them much on his opponent's build, only their explicit actions. We don't have a huge number of players at the moment and I'm also interested in seeing how certain builds/matchups work (hopefully before ranks become more permanent).
He would also have a handicap of zero budget, because I think that would be funny and want to see how it works.
I like the wild card idea a lot
I'd be fine with seeing you enter some combatants. I personally also wouldn't see any necessity for simple tactics or budget handicaps though. I'm not overly worried about your knowing other people's characters while playing your own, since unless you can really capitalize on something, I'd find it unlikely to make all that much difference.
So, I'd be fine with you just throwing a combatant in regularly, rather than limiting them. But either way, yeah, that sounds like fun :P
No issue with the wild card. And I also commend Jehova for such an awesome event as this.
Alright, well, here is the randomization (Eko is stepping out as a duplicate character to test out this wildcard thing).
m'Shimu -> Bruno
Arak -> Yarün
Bruno
Aurum -> Kailin
Kailin
Yarün
m'Shimu vs. Bruno
Arak vs. Yarün
Aurum vs. Kailin
Oooooh this will be good. :-) Good luck everyone!
FIGHTS:
Okay I really like Yarün, but I still feel vaguely bad about that fight.
Yowch, no kidding. Did you roll like all 20's in there?
Not really.
15
5
1
8
8
20
6
6
6
20
12
15
11
20
The first 20 was an unconfirmed critical, and the third was the confirmation of the second. All three 20s together only added up to 5 extra damage, which was completely negligible.
Branches are just op.
Well, that was mostly from the way on several posts you just put up damage without the attack roll, making me figure they might have been nat 20's.
I suppose once you know what hits the opponents AC, you can simplify things by just saying if it would hit or not though, huh?
Agreed. Branches should be banned.
I love the army of dinos, btw... well, i like that they weren't brought to bear on any of my characters, anyway. :D
Eben is very much right again! Thank you Jehova for organizing this. I don't mind if I got stomped by one of your characters every once in a while ;)
What are branches btw?
And I'd like to reopen the wealth for consumables discussion because I already lost track of how many crossbow bolts Kirk shot :(
Another thought on this:
If I get paired up randomly to someone willing to spend all his money on consumables I kind of have to do that too to keep up. That would put me to a disadvantage towards pairings where people save the money for later use.
I really think a fixed consumable value each fight depending on level would be a good thing. Under the current rules people won't go crazy on consumables anyway since it would eat all their money for future fights. I think it leads to a rather conservative consumable use.
Besides thinking about all the possibilities and allocating the right amount of money on consumables to not end up broke but still get a decent advantage is just shattering my head! ;)
Fixed consumables value each fight could be nice. Then, if someone wants to spend more on consumables, it goes against their total gold. I kind of like that... it was discussed earlier by someone. DArkwolf, maybe?
Branch
Smooth XD And yeah, I must say, when I saw the pair of velociraptors and then the Shillelagh (not to spoil things... but was there honestly anyone who didn't know what that was?), I was already loving that character. I look forward to seeing how he fares in the future.
As for the consumables thing, I think that was generally the idea, with a set percentage of your usual wealth being available for consumables and then refreshed. I'm personally still hoping we go with something along those lines, as I feel it will make bookkeeping easier, and alleviate any strain on the more consumable dependent classes (mostly martials, when trying to match the innate magic stuff casters can do).
Hmm... *goes to wander back through thread*
I'm quite willing to re-open the discussion on how consumables (and wealth in general) works. This would be the time, since I want to figure such stuff out before full arena-ness. I'm not sure I like the updating of wealth after each fight, perhaps it would be better to just give have wealth based on level, and have everyone gain it only when they level up. I'll think about possible changes for this (including consumables), and I welcome any ideas (what would be a fair value for a fixed consumable budget?).
Well, I guess I'm glad I started writing this then.
I'm personally fine if we have wealth only change on level-up. Then again, I honestly haven't updated any of my characters' gear yet in terms of having more cash to work with or going over the minimum wealth (probably because I'm lazy and don't want to update after a win, only to lose and then readjust), so maybe I'm just not the best to give an opinion on that.
I grabbed a post of mine from earlier where I crunched some numbers. I'm personally still inclined to say 5% of your regular wealth is a good cap on consumables (see the spoilered quote below for how that holds up at a few levels). Of course, if anyone thinks a different value would a better choice, feel free to say so and discuss why :)
I do think that having those consumables should probably be counted against a character's gear, but I don't think it should be permanently so. That is, if you use all 5% of the allowed cash on consumables, then you can only have 95% in your other gear. I'd say you would also be able to just use all 100% of it in lasting gear of course, if that's what someone would want to do.
I was going to put together some thoughts on how to handle updating gear/consumables with extra money, and how that could be done, but if we're considering leaving it to only change on levelup, then I'll hold off getting into that too much.
With a 5% cap:
You'd need to be level 6 by the time you could get a 1st level wand and level 15 by the time you got a 3rd level wand.
Right off the bat however, you could purchase a 1st level potion. You could grab a 3rd level potion once you hit 6.
Scrolls are the most difficult to balance because, as you said, a high UMD score can allow for powering them, and they're relatively cheap. Still:
You'd be limited to 1st level scrolls at level 2.
At level 6, you can get a 4th level scroll, but would need a UMD check of 27 to activate it, or a caster level check if you're a class that could already use it.
At the high end, you can begin picking up 9th level scrolls when you reach level 11. A UMD check of 37 would be needed, along with a check for appropriate score if you don't have it, such as not having 19 Int for wizard spells. That would be a UMD check of 34.
If you do have the spell on your list, you'll only need a caster level check of 17 minimum, which means a 6 or higher, giving about a 1/4 chance of failing.
So, I can see that being a problem, but, much as 9th level spells are really good, at level 11 they won't necessarily blow a character out of the water in one go and they'll have a reasonable chance of failure even in the best circumstances.
I feel like it could work out alright, but I can't really say for sure.
I'm totally fine with having characters not gain wealth until they gain a level. It normalizes wealth levels to a finer degree, which is nice from a parity standpoint.
I'd like to try out Darkwolf's idea. 5% is a good starting number, based on his crunched numbers. I like the idea that a small amount of my over-all budget can go into consumables (and this would include ammo, alchemical items, potions, scrolls, wands, etc), and I can recover that small amount of expended gold. It would certainly make playing a martial hurt a little less.
It just means that – if I can reach level 3 or 4 – I can have a few counters prepared for when a caster becomes airborne, invisible, whatever.
And yes, for clarity, this consumable allowance is NOT on top of your normal gold. It's just the amount of gold you can "get back" if you take consumables into an arena and use them. If you use an amount of consumables that goes beyond this threshold, that gold is lost permanently.
If you use an amount of consumables that goes beyond this threshold, that gold is lost permanently.
Actually, by 'cap' I literally was thinking not being able to go above that amount. Partially to avoid the whole nightmare (or at least what sounds like an annoyance to me) of keeping a running tally of what's been consumed during a combatant's career, and partially to avoid people loading up on extremely expensive consumables, relative to level, and blowing up the arena (if only for a single fight).
But I'm not really averse to letting people go over that and then having it affect their minimums either, so whichever way that goes is fine by me.
Hadn't considered that. Though I've been having to track my 50g deficit since that first fight with Rolg. Not a big deal in Rolg's case, but I can see how it could get annoying.
Also a branch is just a club, since they cost 0 gp.
when we say 5% are we talking off of the min wealth per level or total starting wealth.
I'd prefer it to be a bit higher than 5%. I think if people are spending their money where they wish then there is a trade off later on where they have less to spend on permanent items. I think the lowest I would say would be 15% or 20%.
That said I think it should have to come out of your gold and winnings and you need to buy whatever you use all over again. That is what I have been doing so far here.
What are you guys talking about?
Sorry been working on a New Submission...