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RPG Superstar 6 Season Star Voter. 1,365 posts (1,842 including aliases). No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 9 aliases.


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Okay, so I have not sent in Kailin yet, and I am going to actually say that I probably won't for about the next month. Too much other stuff to take care of for a bit, but once it's all settled I'll see about getting back in here. Sorry for the delay :(

Hi, I am here. Switched OS's on my computer which messed me up for awhile, but I'm pretty much around. I'll see if I can get Kailin back up to speed and PM'd tomorrow.

I think I could try to get back in the randomization, but I'm a little unsure who/where character stats are supposed to go to now. I'd probably throw Kailin back into the ring though if we want to get some games going again?

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Casts Raise Thread.

I stumbled back on this, and since I don't think we've actually seen any 9-tailed Kitsune builds in here, I figured I'd whip some up. Here you go.

I freely admit that they all could probably be better without the tails, but I think they all can contribute at least some worthwhile strengths to a party, and the tails provide some extra abilities that can be useful.

Also, I didn't bother filling out all of the skills and equipment, I mostly just put together the stats (they're all built on 20 point buy) and feats. You can basically assume standard equipment (stat boosters, cloak of resistance, upgraded weapons, etc.) Since I didn't fill out equipment, they don't have AC's listed, though I did list their basic Saving Throw bonuses before any items. I will also put together some basic info about what I'd picture them doing (weapons used and so on).

Also, I copied over all the text from class abilities in case anyone wants it for reference. Probably looks really messy, but that's what the spoilers are for.

Samurai 16 / Fighter 4

Str - 18
Dex - 16
Con - 14
Int - 10
Wis - 10
Cha - 14

HP - 180 (w/Favored Class Bonuses)

Fort - 16
Ref - 9
Will - 6

Skills - 72 Ranks Total

1: Weapon Focus (Katana)
Fighter Bonus 1: Point-Blank Shot
3: Rapid Shot
Fighter Bonus 2: Power Attack
5: Tail
7: Tail
Fighter Bonus 4: Weapon Specialization (Katana)
9: Tail
Samurai Bonus 6: Improved Critical (Katana)
11: Tail
13: Tail
15: Tail
Samurai Bonus 12: Greater Weapon Focus (Katana)
17: Tail
19: Tail

Samurai Class Features
Challenge: +16 Melee Damage vs. Target, +5 Dodge to AC vs. Target (Order), 6/day
Resolve: 8/day
Weapon Expertise (Katana)
Mounted Archer
Honorable Stand
Demanding Challenge
Greater Banner

Order of the Lion
Lion's Call
For the King
Shield of the Liege

Fighter Class Features
Bravery 1
Armor Training 1



The benefit of these classes is that they get a few extra feats for combat, letting them use most of the normal feats for the tails, and Samurai in general gets a few interesting abilities.

Went with Order of the Lion to make use of the kitsune's racial bonus to Cha. Since Cha also determines the DC of the SLA's from the tails, a headband for it would be important, which also boosts a number of the Order Abilities.

Primarily, they'd use a katana (where most of their feats are sunk, besides the tails), but they have point blank shot and rapid shot to make a longbow feasible, and the dex to put it to use. I skipped precise shot because if there are allies around the enemies, then the samurai should probably be cutting them up with the katana instead.

Samurai/Fighter Reference Text:
Samurai 16

Challenge (Ex): Once per day, a samurai can challenge a foe to combat. As a swift action, the samurai chooses one target within sight to challenge. The samurai's melee attacks deal extra damage when made against the target of his challenge. This extra damage is equal to the samurai's level. The samurai can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day for every three levels beyond 1st, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

Challenging a foe requires much of the samurai's concentration. The samurai takes a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of his challenge.

The challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious, or until the combat ends. Each samurai's challenge also includes another effect, which is listed in the section describing the samurai's order.

Mount (Ex): A samurai gains the service of a loyal and trusty steed to carry him into battle. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the samurai's level as his effective druid level. The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and that is suitable as a mount. A Medium samurai can select a camel or a horse. A Small samurai can select a pony or a wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM may approve other animals as suitable mounts.

A samurai does not take an armor check penalty on Ride checks while riding his mount. The mount is always considered combat trained and begins play with Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. A samurai's mount does not gain the share spells special ability.

A samurai's bond with his mount is strong, with the pair learning to anticipate each other's moods and moves. Should a samurai's mount die, the samurai may find another mount to serve him after 1 week of mourning. The new mount does not gain the link, evasion, devotion, or improved evasion special abilities until the next time the samurai gains a level.

Order (Ex): At 1st level, a samurai must pledge himself to a specific order, typically the order of the warrior. The order grants the samurai a number of bonuses, class skills, and special abilities. In addition, each order includes a number of edicts the samurai must follow. If he violates these edicts, he loses the benefits of his order's challenge ability for 24 hours. The violation of an edict is subject to GM interpretation.

Most samurai belong to the order of the warrior and are dedicated to their lord. Those without a lord, or who chose to abandon their lord, are ronin. A samurai may instead elect to dedicate himself to one of the orders listed under the cavalier description, but such samurai are rare.

A samurai who wishes to change his order must undertake a lengthy process to dedicate himself to a new cause. When this choice is made, he immediately loses all of the benefits from his old order. He must then follow the edicts of his new order for one entire level without gaining any benefits from that order. Once he has accomplished this, he gains all the bonuses from his new order. The only exception to this is when a samurai decides to become a ronin. A samurai can elect to become a ronin immediately, losing all the benefits from his old order and replacing them with the new benefits from the ronin order. Once a ronin, however, the only way for the samurai to change to another order is through the method described above. Note that the names of these orders might vary depending upon the campaign setting or GM's preference.

Resolve (Ex): Starting at 1st level, the samurai gains resolve that he can call upon to endure even the most devastating wounds and afflictions. He can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day for every two samurai levels beyond 1st. Whenever the samurai defeats the target of his challenge, he regains one daily use of his resolve, up to his maximum number of uses per day. Defeating the target of his challenge usually involves reducing the target to 0 hit points or fewer, but the GM might rule that an enemy who surrenders or flees the battle is also defeated. He can use this resolve in a number of ways.

Determined: As a standard action, the samurai can spend one use of his resolve to remove the fatigued, shaken, or sickened condition. If the samurai is at least 8th level, he can alternatively remove the exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or staggered condition. If the condition has a duration longer than 1 hour or is permanent, this ability removes the condition for 1 hour, at which time the condition returns.

Resolute: Whenever the samurai is required to make a Fortitude or Will save, he can spend one use of his resolve as an immediate action to roll twice and take the better result. He must decide to use this ability before he rolls the saving throw.

Unstoppable: When the samurai is reduced to fewer than 0 hit points but not slain, he can spend one use of his resolve as an immediate action to instantly stabilize and remain conscious. He is staggered, but he does not fall unconscious and begin dying if he takes a standard action. He does fall unconscious if he takes additional damage from any source.

Weapon Expertise (Ex): At 3rd level, a samurai gains an unparalleled expertise with his chosen weapons. At 3rd level, the samurai selects either the katana, longbow, naginata, or wakizashi. The samurai can draw the selected weapon as a free action as if he had the Quick Draw feat. In addition, whenever he threatens a critical hit with the selected weapon, he gains a +2 bonus on the confirmation roll. Finally, his samurai levels stack with any fighter levels he possesses for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites for feats that specifically select his chosen weapon, such as Weapon Specialization.

Mounted Archer (Ex): At 4th level, the samurai becomes skilled at firing ranged weapons while mounted. A samurai only takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls with ranged weapons while his mount takes a double move. This penalty increases to –4 while his mount is running.

Banner (Ex): At 5th level, a samurai's banner becomes a symbol of inspiration to his allies and companions. As long as the samurai's banner is clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls made as part of a charge. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. The banner must be at least Small or larger and must be carried or displayed by the samurai or his mount to function.

Bonus Feat: At 6th level, and every six levels thereafter, a samurai gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. The samurai must meet the requirements of these bonus feats.

Greater Resolve (Ex): At 9th level, a samurai can spend his resolve to negate some of his most grievous wounds. After a critical hit is confirmed against him, the samurai can spend one use of his resolve as an immediate action to treat that critical hit as a normal hit. Effects that only trigger on a critical hit do not trigger when the samurai uses this ability.

Honorable Stand (Ex): At 11th level, a samurai can make an honorable stand, deciding to fight the target of his challenge to the bitter end, no matter the cost. He can make an honorable stand once per day at 11th level, plus one additional time per day at 16th level. Declaring an honorable stand is a swift action. While making an honorable stand, the samurai is immune to the shaken, frightened, and panicked conditions. He does not fall unconscious while his hit point total is below 0. Finally, whenever a samurai making an honorable stand must make a saving throw, he can spend one daily use of his resolve to reroll the saving throw after the first roll is made. He must take the result of the second roll, even if it is worse. If a samurai making an honorable stand ever retreats from battle against his challenged foe, he loses the ability to make a challenge for 24 hours.

Demanding Challenge (Ex): At 12th level, whenever a samurai declares a challenge, his target must pay attention to the threat he poses. As long as the target is within the threatened area of the samurai, it takes a –2 penalty to its AC on attacks made by anyone other than the samurai.

Greater Banner (Ex): At 14th level, a samurai's banner becomes a rallying call to his allies. All allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and compulsion spells and effects. In addition, while his banner is displayed, the samurai can spend a standard action to wave the banner through the air, granting all allies within 60 feet an additional saving throw against any one spell or effect that is targeting them. This save is made at the original DC. Spells and effects that do not allow saving throws are unaffected by this ability. An ally cannot benefit from this ability more than once per day.

Order of the Lion

A cavalier who belongs to this order has pledged himself to a sovereign; be it a king, queen, or even the local warlord. Cavaliers of this order are stalwart and dedicated to their cause, willing to go any length to ensure the safety of their lord and his domain.

Edicts: The cavalier must protect the life and lands of his sovereign at all costs. He must obey the commands of his sovereign without question. He must strive to expand the power and prestige of his realm.

Challenge: Whenever an order of the lion cavalier issues a challenge, he receives a +1 dodge bonus to his AC against attacks made by the target of his challenge. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels the cavalier possesses.

Skills: An order of the lion cavalier adds Knowledge (local) (Int) and Knowledge (nobility) (Int) to his list of class skills. An order of the lion cavalier can make Knowledge (nobility) skill checks untrained. If he has ranks in the skill, he receives a bonus on the check equal to 1/2 his cavalier level (minimum +1) as long as the check involves his sovereign.

Order Abilities: A cavalier belonging to the order of the lion gains the following abilities as he increases in level.

Lion's Call (Ex): At 2nd level, an order of the lion cavalier gains the ability to rally his allies. As a standard action, he can give an encouraging speech which grants all allies within 60 feet a competence bonus on their saving throws against fear equal to his Charisma modifier and a +1 competence bonus on attack rolls for a number of rounds equal to his cavalier level. If an ally within range is under the effect of a spell or ability that causes him to be frightened or panicked, he can immediately make another saving throw to resist the effect (if allowed).

For the King (Ex): At 8th level, an order of the lion cavalier can call out to his allies, inspiring them to greatness. As a swift action, the cavalier can grant a competence bonus equal to his Charisma modifier on all attack and damage rolls to all allies within 30 feet. This bonus lasts for 1 round. This ability can be used once per combat.

Shield of the Liege (Ex): At 15th level, an order of the lion cavalier can protect those around him. Allies that are adjacent to the cavalier receive a +2 shield bonus to their AC. In addition, as an immediate action, the cavalier can redirect an attack made at a creature adjacent to himself, as long as the creature making the attack is within the cavalier's reach. This ability must be declared before the attack roll is made. The attack is made against the cavalier's AC and defenses, even if the creature could not normally reach or attack the cavalier. The cavalier loses any cover or concealment bonuses when subject to the redirected attack.

Fighter 4

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”

Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.

Bravery (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a fighter gains a +1 bonus on Will saves against fear. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd.

Armor Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever he is wearing armor, he reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor. At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor.

Gunslinger (Pistolero) 20

Str - 8
Dex - 20
Con - 14
Int - 10
Wis - 16
Cha - 16

HP 184 (w/Favored Class Bonuses)

Fort - 14
Ref - 17
Will - 9

Skills - 80 Ranks Total

1: Point-Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
Gunslinger Bonus 4: Rapid Shot
5: Tail
7: Tail
Gunslinger Bonus 8: Rapid Reload
9: Tail
11: Tail
Gunslinger Bonus 12: Deadly Aim
13: Tail
15: Tail
Gunslinger Bonus 16: Improved Precise Shot
17: Tail
19: Tail
Gunslinger Bonus 20: Improved Initiative

Gunslinger Class Features
Grit: 3/day
Nimble +5
Pistol Training
True Grit (Up Close and Deadly, Bleeding Wound)



With a bonus to dex and a penalty to strength, gunslinger makes for a pretty effective ranged damage class, though needing some points into Charisma makes it difficult to put as many into Wisdom for the Grit.

Pretty straightforward, shoots people for a pretty good amount of damage.

Gunslinger Reference Text:
Gunslinger 20

Gunsmith: At 1st level, a gunslinger gains one of the following firearms of her choice: blunderbuss, musket, or pistol. Her starting weapon is battered, and only she knows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat her gun as if it had the broken condition. If the weapon already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for anyone else trying to use it. This starting weapon can only be sold for scrap (it's worth 4d10 gp when sold). The gunslinger also gains Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.

Grit (Ex): A gunslinger makes her mark upon the world with daring deeds. Some gunslingers claim they belong to a mystical way of the gun, but it's more likely that the volatile nature of firearms simply prunes the unlucky and careless from their ranks. Whatever the reason, all gunslingers have grit. In game terms, grit is a fluctuating measure of a gunslinger's ability to perform amazing actions in combat. At the start of each day, a gunslinger gains a number of grit points equal to her Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). Her grit goes up or down throughout the day, but usually cannot go higher than her Wisdom modifier (minimum 1), though some feats and magic items may affect this maximum. A gunslinger spends grit to accomplish deeds (see below), and regains grit in the following ways.

Critical Hit with a Firearm: Each time the gunslinger confirms a critical hit with a firearm attack while in the heat of combat, she regains 1 grit point. Confirming a critical hit on a helpless or unaware creature or on a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the gunslinger's character level does not restore grit.

Killing Blow with a Firearm: When the gunslinger reduces a creature to 0 or fewer hit points with a firearm attack while in the heat of combat, she regains 1 grit point. Destroying an unattended object, reducing a helpless or unaware creature to 0 or fewer hit points, or reducing a creature that has fewer Hit Dice than half the gunslinger's character level to 0 or fewer hit points does not restore any grit.

Deeds: Gunslingers spend grit points to accomplish deeds. Most deeds grant the gunslinger some momentary bonus or effect, but there are some that provide longer-lasting effects. Some deeds stay in effect as long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point. The following is the list of base gunslinger deeds. A gunslinger can only perform deeds of her level or lower. Unless otherwise noted, a deed can be performed multiple successive times, as long as the appropriate amount of grit is spent to perform the deed.

Deadeye (Ex): At 1st level, the gunslinger can resolve an attack against touch AC instead of normal AC when firing beyond her firearm's first range increment. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point per range increment beyond the first. The gunslinger still takes the –2 penalty on attack rolls for each range increment beyond the first when she performs this deed.

Gunslinger's Dodge (Ex): At 1st level, the gunslinger gains an uncanny knack for getting out of the way of ranged attacks. When a ranged attack is made against the gunslinger, she can spend 1 grit point to move 5 feet as an immediate action; doing so grants the gunslinger a +2 bonus to AC against the triggering attack. This movement is not a 5-foot step, and provokes attacks of opportunity. Alternatively, the gunslinger can drop prone to gain a +4 bonus to AC against the triggering attack. The gunslinger can only perform this deed while wearing medium or light armor, and while carrying no more than a light load.

Quick Clear (Ex): At 1st level, as a standard action, the gunslinger can remove the broken condition from a single firearm she is currently wielding, as long as that condition was gained by a firearm misfire. The gunslinger must have at least 1 grit point to perform this deed. Alternatively, if the gunslinger spends 1 grit point to perform this deed, she can perform quick clear as a move-equivalent action instead of a standard action.

Gunslinger Initiative (Ex): At 3rd level, as long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she gains the following benefits. First, she gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks. Furthermore, if she has the Quick Draw feat, her hands are free and unrestrained, and the firearm is not hidden, she can draw a single firearm as part of the initiative check.

Pistol-Whip (Ex): At 3rd level, the gunslinger can make a surprise melee attack with the butt or handle of her firearm as a standard action. When she does, she is considered to be proficient with the firearm as a melee weapon and gains a bonus on the attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus of the firearm. The damage dealt by the pistol-whip is of the bludgeoning type, and is determined by the size of the firearm. One-handed firearms deal 1d6 points of damage (1d4 if wielded by Small creatures) and two-handed firearms deal 1d10 points of damage (1d8 if wielded by Small creatures). Regardless of the gunslinger's size, the critical multiplier of this attack is 20/×2. If the attack hits, the gunslinger can make a combat maneuver check to knock the target prone as a free action. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point.

Utility Shot (Ex): At 3rd level, if the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can perform all of the following utility shots. Each utility shot can be applied to any single attack with a firearm, but the gunslinger must declare the utility shot she is using before firing the shot.

• Blast Lock: The gunslinger makes an attack roll against a lock within the first range increment of her firearm. A Diminutive lock usually has AC 7, and larger locks have a lower AC. The lock gains a bonus to its AC against this attack based on its quality. A simple lock has a +10 bonus to AC, an average lock has a +15 bonus to AC, a good lock has a +20 bonus to AC, and a superior lock has a +30 bonus to AC. Arcane lock grants a +10 bonus to the AC of a lock against this attack. On a hit, the lock is destroyed, and the object can be opened as if it were unlocked. On a miss, the lock is destroyed, but the object is jammed and still considered locked. It can still be unlocked by successfully performing this deed, by using the Disable Device skill, or with the break DC, though the DC for either break or Disable Device or the AC increases by 10. A key, combination, or similar mechanical method of unlocking the lock no longer works, though knock can still be employed to bypass the lock, and the creator of an arcane lock can still bypass the wards of that spell.

• Scoot Unattended Object: The gunslinger makes an attack roll against a Tiny or smaller unattended object within the first range increment of her firearm. A Tiny unattended object has an AC of 5, a Diminutive unattended object has an AC of 7, and a Fine unattended object has an AC of 11. On a hit, the gunslinger does not damage the object with the shot, but can move it up to 15 feet farther away from the shot's origin. On a miss, she damages the object normally.

• Stop Bleeding: The gunslinger makes a firearm attack and then presses the hot barrel against herself or an adjacent creature to staunch a bleeding wound. Instead of dealing damage, the shot ends a single bleed condition affecting the creature. The gunslinger does not have to make an attack roll when performing the deed in this way; she can instead shoot the firearm into the air, but that shot still uses up ammunition normally.

Dead Shot (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can take careful aim and pool all of her attack potential into a single, deadly shot. When she does this, she shoots the firearm at a single target, but makes as many attack rolls as she can, based on her base attack bonus. She makes the attack rolls in order from highest bonus to lowest, as if she were making a full attack. If any of the attack rolls hit the target, the gunslinger's single attack is considered to have hit. For each additional successful attack roll beyond the first, the gunslinger increases the damage of the shot by the base damage dice of the firearm. For instance, if a 7th-level gunslinger firing a musket hits with both attacks, she does 2d12 points of damage with the shot, instead of 1d12 points of damage, before adding any damage modifiers. Precision damage and extra damage from weapon special abilities (such as flaming) are added with damage modifiers and are not increased by this deed. If one or more rolls are critical threats, she confirms the critical once using her highest base attack bonus –5. For each critical threat beyond the first, she reduces this penalty by 1 (to a maximum of 0). The gunslinger only misfires on a dead shot if all the attack rolls are misfires. She cannot perform this deed with a blunderbuss or other scatter weapon when attacking creatures in a cone. The gunslinger must spend 1 grit point to perform this deed.

Startling Shot (Ex): At 7th level, a gunslinger with least 1 grit point can spend a standard action to purposely miss a creature that she could normally hit with a firearm attack. When she does, that creature becomes flat-footed until the start of its next turn.

Targeting (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action, the gunslinger can make a single firearm attack and choose part of the body to target. She gains the following effects depending on the part of the body targeted. If a creature does not have one of the listed body locations, that part cannot be targeted. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform no matter which part of the creature she targets. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are immune to these effects.

• Arms: On a hit, the target takes no damage from the hit but drops one carried item of the gunslinger's choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items held in a locked gauntlet are not dropped on a hit.

• Head: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and is also confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.

• Legs: On a hit, the target is damaged normally and knocked prone. Creatures that have four or more legs or that are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.

• Torso: Targeting the torso threatens a critical on a 19–20.

• Wings: On a hit, the target is damaged normally, and must make a DC 20 Fly check or fall 20 ft.

Bleeding Wound (Ex): At 11th level, when the gunslinger hits a living creature with a firearm attack, she can spend 1 grit point as a free action to have that attack deal extra bleed damage. The amount of bleed damage is equal to the gunslinger's Dexterity modifier. Alternatively, the gunslinger can spend 2 grit points to deal 1 point of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution bleed damage (gunslinger's choice) instead. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to these types of bleed damage.

Expert Loading (Ex): At 11th level, whenever the gunslinger rolls a misfire with a gun that has the broken condition, she can spend 1 grit point to keep the gun from exploding, though it retains the broken condition.

Lightning Reload (Ex): At 11th level, as long as the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she can reload a single barrel of a one-handed or two-handed firearm as a swift action once per round. If she has the Rapid Reload feat or is using an alchemical cartridge (or both), she can reload a single barrel of the weapon as a free action each round instead. Furthermore, using this deed does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Evasive (Ex): At 15th level, when the gunslinger has at least 1 grit point, she gains the benefit of the evasion, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge rogue class features. She uses her gunslinger level as her rogue level for improved uncanny dodge.

Menacing Shot (Ex): At 15th level, the gunslinger can spend 1 grit point, shoot a firearm into the air, and affect all living creatures within a 30-foot-radius burst as if they were subject to the fear spell. The DC of this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the gunslinger's level + the gunslinger's Wisdom modifier.

Slinger's Luck (Ex): At 15th level, the gunslinger can spend grit to reroll a saving throw or a skill check. It costs 2 grit points to reroll a saving throw, and 1 grit point to reroll a skill check. The gunslinger must take the result of the second roll, even if it is lower. The deed's cost cannot be reduced by the true grit class ability, the Signature Deed feat, or any other effect that reduces the amount of grit a deed costs.

Cheat Death (Ex): At 19th level, whenever the gunslinger is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, she can spend all of her remaining grit points (minimum 1) to instead be reduced to 1 hit point.

Death's Shot (Ex): At 19th level, when the gunslinger scores a critical hit, she can spend 1 grit point to deal normal damage, and the target must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw with a DC equal to 10 + 1/2 the gunslinger's level + the gunslinger's Dexterity modifier. On a failed saving throw, the target dies. This is a death attack. Performing this deed does not allow the gunslinger to regain grit from confirming a critical hit or making a killing blow.

Stunning Shot (Ex): At 19th level, when a gunslinger hits a creature, she can spend 2 grit points to stun the creature for 1 round. The creature must make a Fortitude saving throw (the DC = 10 + 1/2 the gunslinger's level + the gunslinger's Wisdom modifier). If the creature fails, it is stunned for 1 round. Creatures that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this effect.

Nimble (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a gunslinger gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC while wearing light or no armor. Anything that causes the gunslinger to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the gunslinger to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd level (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level).

Bonus Feats: At 4th level, and every four levels thereafter, a gunslinger gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained by normal advancement. These bonus feats must be combat or grit feats.

Gun Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a gunslinger can select one specific type of firearm (such as an axe musket, blunderbuss, musket, or pistol). She gains a bonus equal to her Dexterity modifier on damage rolls when firing that type of firearm. Furthermore, when she misfires with that type of firearm, the misfire value of that firearm increases by 2 instead of 4.

Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), the gunslinger picks up another type of firearm, gaining these bonuses for those types as well.

True Grit (Ex): At 20th level, a gunslinger picks two deeds that she has access to and that she must spend grit to perform. She can perform these deeds for 1 grit point fewer (minimum 0) than usual. If the number of grit points to perform a deed is reduced to 0, the gunslinger can perform this deed as long as she has at least 1 grit point. If a deed could already be performed as long as she had at least 1 grit point, she can now perform that deed even when she has no grit points.

Pistolero Archetype

Gunsmith: A pistolero must take a pistol when she chooses a battered firearm at 1st level.

Deeds: A pistolero swaps a trio of deeds for the following.

Up Close and Deadly (Ex): At 1st level, when the pistolero hits a target with a one-handed firearm that is not making a scatter shot, she can spend 1 grit point to deal 1d6 points of extra damage on a hit. If she misses with the attack, she grazes the target, dealing half the extra damage anyway. She must choose to spend the grit point before she makes the attack roll. This is precision damage and is not multiplied if the attack is a critical hit. This precision damage increases to 2d6 at 5th level, to 3d6 at 10th level, to 4d6 at 15th level, and to 5d6 at 20th level. This precision damage stacks with sneak attack and other forms of precision damage. This deed replaces the deadeye deed.

Deadeye (Ex): At 7th level, the pistolero gains the deadeye deed, which is normally a 1st-level gunslinger deed. This deed replaces the startling shot deed.

Twin Shot Knockdown (Ex): At 11th level, when the pistolero hits a single target with two or more one-handed firearm attacks during her turn, she can spend 1 grit point to knock the target prone. She can choose to spend the grit point after the attacks are made. This deed replaces the menacing shot deed..

Pistol Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a pistolero increases her skill with one-handed firearms. She gains a bonus on damage rolls equal to her Dexterity modifier, and when she misfires with a one-handed firearm, the misfire value increases by 2 instead of 4. Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), the bonus on damage rolls increases by +1. At 13th level, a pistolero never misfires with a one-handed firearm.

Oracle 20

Str - 11
Dex - 18
Con - 14
Int - 10
Wis - 10
Cha - 20

HP 159 (this is with 16 favored class bonuses. 4 of them went into removing longbow non-proficiency penalty, as per the kitsune racial option).

Fort - 13
Ref - 15
Will - 17

Skills - 80 Ranks Total

1: Point-Blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
5: Tail
7: Tail
9: Tail
11: Tail
13: Tail
15: Tail
17: Tail
19: Tail

Oracle Class Features
Curse: Haunted
Mystery: Heavens

1: Coat of Many Stars
3: Awesome Display
7: Lure of the Heavens
11: Spray of Shooting Stars
15: Interstellar Void
19: Moonlight Bridge

0: Mage Hand, Ghost Sound, Stabilize, Spark, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Light, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink, Bleed, Guidance
1: Cure Light Wounds, Color Spray, Bless, Bane, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Obscuring Mist,
2: Levitate, Minor Image, Cure Moderate Wounds, Hypnotic Pattern, Grace, Silence, Sound Burst, Spear of Purity, Weapon of Awe
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Daylight, Prayer, Wind Wall, Water Breathing, Dispel Magic
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Rainbow Pattern, Blessing of Fervor, Divine Power, Freedom of Movement, Summon Monster IV
5: Telekinesis, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Overland Flight, Breath of Life, Fickle Winds, Flame Strike, Spell Resistance
6: Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Chain Lightning, Greater Dispel Magic, Heal, Cold Ice Strike
7: Reverse Gravity, Mass Cure Serious Wounds, Prismatic Spray, Holy Word, Jolting Portent, Destruction
8: Mass Cure Critical Wounds, Sunburst, Divine Vessel, Fire Storm, Orb of the Void
9: Meteor Swarm, Miracle, Wooden Phalanx, Energy Drain



A casting class that uses Cha makes for a good Kitsune overall, especially one that is gonna have a bunch of Cha-dependant SLA's. Thanks to the kitsune's alternate favored class bonus for oracles, this one picked up Longbow proficiency after a couple levels, and fires away from a distance. Low strength makes it a little less than the most effective, but this is made up for with the ability to do a lot of self buff, along with party support and some enemy debuff.

Arguably more useful, there's plenty of spells to use on enemies as well, including both straight up damage, Save or Suck, and so on. I did kind of pick them up quickly and without too much forethought, so there's probably more optimization that can be done with it.

Oracle Reference Text:
Mystery: Each oracle draws upon a divine mystery to grant her spells and powers. This mystery also grants additional class skills and other special abilities. This mystery can represent a devotion to one ideal, prayers to deities that support the concept, or a natural calling to champion a cause. For example, an oracle with the waves mystery might have been born at sea and found a natural calling to worship the gods of the oceans, rivers, and lakes, be they benign or malevolent. Regardless of its source, the mystery manifests in a number of ways as the oracle gains levels. An oracle must pick one mystery upon taking her first level of oracle. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.

At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an oracle learns an additional spell derived from her mystery. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 2–6. They cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.

Oracle's Curse (Ex): Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle's curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. An oracle's curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle. Each oracle must choose one of the following curses.

Haunted: Malevolent spirits follow you wherever you go, causing minor mishaps and strange occurrences (such as unexpected breezes, small objects moving on their own, and faint noises). Retrieving any stored item from your gear requires a standard action, unless it would normally take longer. Any item you drop lands 10 feet away from you in a random direction. Add mage hand and ghost sound to your list of spells known. At 5th level, add levitate and minor image to your list of spells known. At 10th level, add telekinesis to your list of spells known. At 15th level, add reverse gravity to your list of spells known.

Revelation: At 1st level, 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and so on), an oracle uncovers a new secret about her mystery that grants her powers and abilities. The oracle must select a revelation from the list of revelations available to her mystery. If a revelation is chosen at a later level, the oracle gains all of the abilities and bonuses granted by that revelation based on her current level. Unless otherwise noted, activating the power of a revelation is a standard action.

Final Revelation: At 20th level, an oracle learns the final revelation about her mystery, granting her amazing powers and abilities. The nature of these bonuses depends upon the oracle's mystery.

Heavens Mystery

Class Skills: An oracle with the heavens mystery adds Fly, Knowledge (arcana), Perception, and Survival to her list of class skills.

Bonus Spells: color spray (2nd), hypnotic pattern (4th), daylight (6th), rainbow pattern (8th), overland flight (10th), chain lightning (12th), prismatic spray (14th), sunburst (16th), meteor swarm (18th).

Revelations: An oracle with the heavens mystery can choose from any of the following revelations.

Awesome Display (Su): Your phantasmagoric displays accurately model the mysteries of the night sky, dumbfounding all who behold them. Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).

Coat of Many Stars (Su): You conjure a coat of starry radiance that grants you a +4 armor bonus. At 7th level, and every four levels thereafter, this bonus increases by +2. At 13th level, this armor grants you DR 5/slashing. You can use this coat for 1 hour per day per oracle level. The duration does not need to be consecutive; it can instead be spent in 1-hour increments.

Dweller in Darkness (Sp): Once per day, you cast your psyche into the void of space to attract the attention of a terrible otherworldly being. The dweller in darkness behaves in all ways as if you had cast phantasmal killer. At 17th level, the dweller in darkness can be perceived by more than one creature, as if you had cast weird. You must be at least 11th level to choose this revelation.

Guiding Star (Su): Whenever you can see the open sky at night, you can determine your precise location. When the night sky is visible to you, you may also add your Charisma modifier to your Wisdom modifier on all Wisdom-based checks. In addition, once per night while outdoors, you can cast one spell as if it were modified by the Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Silent Spell, or Still spell feat without increasing the spell's casting time or level.

Interstellar Void (Su): You call upon the frigid depths of outer space to bring a terrible chill to your enemies. As a standard action, one target within 30 feet is cloaked in the void and takes 1d6 points of cold damage per level. A successful Fortitude save halves this damage. At 10th level, the interstellar void is so extreme that enemies who fail their saving throw are fatigued. At 15th level, creatures who fail their save are exhausted and stunned for 1 round. You can use this ability once per day plus one additional time per day at 10th level.

Lure of the Heavens (Su): Your connection to the skies above is so strong that your feet barely touch the ground. At 1st level, you no longer leave tracks. At 5th level, you can hover up to 6 inches above the ground or even above liquid surfaces, as if levitating. At 10th level, you gain the ability to fly, as per the spell, for a number of minutes per day equal to your oracle level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1-minute increments.

Mantle of Moonlight (Su): Your innate understanding of the moon renders you immune to lycanthropy. Additionally, you may disrupt a lycanthrope's connection to the moon with a successful touch attack. This action automatically forces the lycanthrope into its humanoid form, which it must remain in for a number of rounds equal to your oracle level. Upon reaching 5th level, you can use this ability to force others into a rage, as per the spell. Using this ability is a melee touch attack. You can use this ability once per day at 5th level plus one additional time per day for every 5 levels above 5th.

Moonlight Bridge (Su): You summon a bridge of shimmering moonlight. The 10-foot-wide span touches the ground at a point adjacent to your position. From this point it can extend in any direction for 10 feet per oracle level. The path persists until you have crossed over the bridge or for 24 hours, whichever is shorter. You may summon a moonlight bridge a number of times per day equal to your Charisma bonus. Should the bridge be attacked, treat it as a wall of force.

Spray of Shooting Stars (Su): As a standard action, you can unleash a ball of energy that explodes in a 5-foot-radius burst dealing 1d4 points of fire damage per level. A successful Reflex save halves this damage. This attack has a range of 60 feet. You can fire one explosive ball per day, plus one additional ball per day at 5th level and for every 5 levels thereafter. You can fire more than one ball at a time, but creatures caught inside more than one simultaneous explosions only take damage once.

Star Chart (Ex): Your copious notes contain a working model of the night sky expressed in artistic scribbles and arcane mathematical formulae. Once per day, you may spend 10 minutes contemplating your star chart to gain the benefit of the spell commune. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.

Final Revelation: Upon achieving 20th level, your rapport with the heavens grants you perfect harmony with the universe. You receive a bonus on all saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier. You automatically stabilize if you are below 0 hit points, are immune to fear effects, and automatically confirm all critical hits. Should you die, you are reborn 3 days later in the form of a star child, who matures over the course of 7 days (treat as the reincarnate spell).

As I said, I imagine they could be a lot more effective without spending the vast majority of their feats on tails, but again, I think they'd function decently.

Sleet Storm wrote:
Well, Jehova is gone.

D: Really? I noticed that it had mostly begun being run by other players... Has it really been that long since he was last around? :( Well damn.

Sleet Storm wrote:
A fresh Recruitment thread might help.

Continuing from the 'too many posts = not much chance of getting in so don't bother checking' thing, if a new recruitment thread is made, I would put right in the title that there is no limit on entries, so everyone knows that at a glance.

Secondly, while I don't exactly know the specific incident that prompted the recent (as in about 2 weeks) invisibility question, this may be relevant. Me and Choon ran into something that sounds similar. The link goes to my rationalization and a few posts following has more discussion and a ruling eventually.

I'd be all for the new VP system, even though I never actually messed around with the old one much. But I was originally a little put off that the progression can be very fickle. Of course, if Jehova doesn't like the idea, it's not a deal breaker of any sorts.

Anywho, I read up on the thread, more or less. A quick summary of anything particularly important that transpired may be nice though, if anyone wants do so.

Hey, sorry I havent been around much. Jeez, I have 400+ posts to catch up on...

Got the mail from Sleet saying that things are kind of flatlining. I've been a bit too busy to check in as of late, but I am still interested in this and will likely be back sooner or later. I'll also try to catch up on what's been going on since I last saw things.

But yeah, just a note interest, I'm still up for this at some point, there's just a few other things eating up my time for a bit. I'll see about catching up on the thread in my free time though and try to be a bit more vocal when I get the chance.

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To the best of my knowledge, you can attack from prone with a -4 penalty. So, even if interrupted, the attack still goes through, it's just less likely to hit, and the enemy doesn't need to get back up if they want to just continue attacking instead.

Not to mention there are a fair few things immune to trip, while anything with more than two legs has a bonus to its CMD against them (I think). I don't really know the enemies someone would find in RotRL, but that might be worth considering (attack dogs or something for example, if the party primarily fights humans/humanoids. Seems like they'd be easy to mix in).

Llaelian's gladiator 1 wrote:
What was the longest fight up to now?

Well, if practice matches are counted, that would probably be Rolg vs. Charan. That was like 20 rounds... err *cough* after checking, that was about 31 rounds (fast-forwarded quite a bit), before it was finally settled via drinking.

Just if anyone was curious and/or wants to go for the gold medal in match time :P

Drakkiel wrote:
PC 1:"What are you talking about? What is initiative? Why are rolling dice? No, I don't know what a 'Dex modifier' is."

Wouldn't this be exactly why it's nonsensical for PC 2 to only be able to summon when they are in this 'initiative' thing?

Anyway, there's not any such thing as 'in-combat' and 'out-of-combat' to the best of my knowledge, except in how they're being run. A 'round' in combat is '6 seconds' out of combat, but there's not any difference between them. Technically, the game is always counted in rounds, it's just not usually important except for... combat.

Well, Kailin and Falcon are currently engaged in a slow battle of whiffs and minor damage through grapples, which seems to be moving towards mutually assured destruction at a relatively casual pace.

But yes, I think most fights from the first round are done :P

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master_marshmallow wrote:
Wisdom, bar the one word about willpower, is about awareness and intuitiveness. It makes complete sense for Nature casting to be based on this attribute, as ones ability to understand their surroundings and their better understanding of nature would make them better at casting things from the natural side of the divine scale.

I don't see there being much of a difference between 'natural' and 'religious' casting. They're both divine, because they both draw on forces greater than the character, it's just a difference of what powers them.

In my opinion, Wisdom does fine for the Religious casting for the same reasons you listed for Natural. Wisdom, to me, is more of an experiential stat, and the listed examples in the description make sense for such divine casting - Willpower (to channel the power of their divine source), Awareness (to understand/grasp it), and Intuition (to act in alignment with the powers they draw on).

master_marshmallow wrote:
Charisma however, is about the characters force of personality, and that attribute is the absolute most important aspect of exerting a religion or faith in the purist sense.

Continuing from above, Charisma does not strike me as important for such casting. You don't need to be an evangelist (not the archetype, but the definition) to receive/wield power from a deity or any other divine source. You just need faith and reverence in that power.

What you do need Charisma for is exerting your own power. More on that below.

master_marshmallow wrote:

We also have some parallelism going here with Arcane casters being INT based, Nature divine casters being WIS based, and Religious divine casters would then be CHA based, showing how the different aspects of a character's personality affect the path that they choose to follow and thus affect what class and kind of spellcasting they use.

I have also been of the opinion that there should be a difference in how the game handles Natural casting vs Religious casting, as two separate kinds of magic, to be equal to Arcane. Arcane has to do with your ability to learn and memorize the 'science' of it all, Nature requires you to tune yourself to the world, and Religion forces you to flaunt your stances and beliefs.

I think the Parallelism comes in a different form - For the most part, yes, Arcane casters are based on Int because it is the ability to cast based on the 'science' of it, as you say. Religious and Natural are not really separate though. As I said above, I think it's more the fact that they rely on wielding forces that the character does not particularly have control over. In the same way a Religious caster does not need to preach of their Deity everywhere, a Natural caster does not really manipulate the forces of Nature so much as they work with the 'Spiritual' (read: Divine) powers behind Nature, if that makes sense.

In general, the way I see casting stats broken down is:

Intelligence serves for the 'science' of it, as you said.
-Wizards are all about being smart and learning how to wield such magic. They need to be precise and exact with their actions/etc. in order to make things work correctly (Magi fall in this category as well).
-Witches feature a more ritualistic theme, but the basic premise is the same as wizards, they do their casting in a specific way and it has a specific effect.
-Alchemist... I don't even think I need to go into this. The entire idea behind the class seems to be SCIENCE!

Wisdom based casting draws on powers greater than the caster, commonly deities or in the case of Druids and Rangers, Natural spirits and such.
-Clerics need to be able to understand (such as through Wisdom) their deity and be able to wield the power given to them (such as through the Willpower clause in your quoted description). Likewise, Inquisitors, despite being Spontaneous, are very closely tied to their deity, so they fall into a pretty similar category as the Cleric.
-Druids and Rangers need to understand the natural world and be able to channel the powers of Nature. It's pretty similar to the same way Clerics/Inquisitors fuel their casting, just with a different source (Natural powers rather than Deific powers).

Finally, Charisma-based casters have a more instinctive/primal way of doing things. Their power is their own, not given from some higher power, or a calculated response to a set of actions.
-Sorcerers wield their inherited magical power, by exerting the sheer force of their mental 'strength' (force of personality = Charisma) to manipulate that magic. (Summoners and Bards pretty much fit into the same category here, with moderately different sources for their powers, but the same general idea.)
-Oracles do pretty much the same thing, even though their casting is Divine. They aren't tied to any particular deity to receive their powers, it's a matter of their own strength/power as to what fuels their spellcasting.
-Paladin is actually the most difficult to fit into this, but their power is not just a matter of a deity - it also comes from their own uncompromising moral code. They need to follow that moral compass in their actions, and it's not just their deity that grants them their powers, but also their own actions/outlook, so I can understand Charisma serving to power their casting, since it, at least partly, comes from themselves... That said, I'm less sure of how to make this one make sense though. Charisma and Wisdom both seem like they could make sense for it.

Anyway, that's all simply my personal evaluation of the casting stats. Take it as you will :)

Edit: Made several changes.

Falcon Dragorian wrote:
I'm in a Summoner vs Summoner match that will either be decided by lucky dice rolls or attrition.

I think the odds are stacked in your favor. You definitely have more AC than either Kailin or Sunahl, though I'm not sure what your likelihood to actually hit them is. They certainly will have difficulty hitting you though, unless I figure something out (also, in the future, I think Kailin might just have some tanglefoot bags for a situation such as this :/ ).

Choon wrote:
Bruno's issue with the flying halfling could have been solved by a little forethought on my part. I honestly didn't expect a flier this early. All I need is a bow and most of my problems would be solved. You can guarantee an equipment shift as soon as he dies. Until then I'll do my best to get her in lance range. :P

This is pretty much exactly why Kailin has had a crossbow from day 1. Even if I never plan on using it (and I don't), if a situation arises where I might need to, I want it available :P

Trihedron wrote:
I actually haven't quite grasped the concept of the surprise round here in the pits yet, seems it would be a little too taxing for those that lose initiative and are immediately caught flat footed, even more taxing for those melee that need to close the distance.

Wouldn't it be more taxing for those who lose intiative if they were to eat a full-round action instead (charge, full attack w/ bows later on when they become available, etc.)? If the opponent beats you in Initiative, you'd be flat-footed whether it's a surprise round or a normal one.

For what it's worth, I'm in this more for fun than optimization, but I am enjoying it for both aspects.

Also, I know the sting of knockout+coup de grace (though of course there's plenty of other SoD's I'm sure), and while it can feel disheartening, it is still just a single match after all. There will (or should hopefully) be plenty of other opportunities for a battle more your speed (I daresay the larger majority of combatants tend to be upfront on things, though with all the people I haven't seen yet, I'm not entirely positive).

Alright, that dice deal sounds good to me :)

Also, happy birthday to Vironus :P

Okay, stuff to ask about.

Dice Rolling *Warning - Long*:
Kailin and Sunahl wrote:

Alright, I'm a bit unsure of the rolling here, as there was a discussion previously involving something along these lines. I'll get into more detail on that in the actual discussion thread, so for now I'll just give the numbers as I think they make sense.

Sunahl's got 15 to hit (Flanking bonuses already applied, though this still seems unlikely to hit), but if it does, 7 damage, and a CMB check of 30 to initiate a grapple. Kailin's got 25 to hit, with 11 damage if it does.

I recall we had a discussion from the practice arena on the dice rolling system, and that dice should be rolled exactly as you would make them, and so I try to do that (well, I did beforehand too, as it makes the most sense to me, but that's neither here not there).

Now the problem here is that this can change depending on whether or not something is a hit or isn't.

In the above scenario, Sunahl rolled a d20 for the grapple check (which I had written in from the start, just to have everything done). As I said, I think it unlikely to hit though, which would mean the free grapple does not happen, and the d20 that Kailin rolls for his attack after that attempt would actually be the result of the grapple's d20 instead, if we did the fixing up and such.

Now, I'm personally a fan of rolling all the possibilities in order, and leaving them as they are once done. I feel it eliminates confusion on contingent actions (as the grab, above) and subsequently keeps from needing to periodically correct things, as well as keeps things running more smoothly for the same reasons (not needing to verify/fix things).

However, since it was brought up before, I figured I would ask about it again. In this case, I left the results as:

Sunahl's Attack (Die #1)
Grapple Attempt (Die #2)
Kailin's Attack (Die #3)

Should it have instead been:

Sunahl's Attack (Die#1)
Grapple Attempt turns into Kailin's Attack (Die #2)
Ignore/Remove this roll which originally was Kailin's Attack (Die #3)

Like I said, I prefer the former, since I don't need to find out whether or not the first attack is a success and/or need to make alterations. As is, removing it based on my assumption that it probably would miss might be incorrect, and waiting until after I hear whether it did or not would mean waiting for my opponent to answer and then further going back to suggest what the alterations would be.

...But if we want to go with the latter, I'll oblige, and just keep the facepalm and/or evil-thought-sending to a minimum <_<

Similarly, Crit threats generate the same question. My practice in the old games had been:

Roll Attack (Die #1)
Roll Another Attack (Die #2)
-If 1 or 2 is a crit threat: Roll Confirm (Die #3)

I personally prefer that instead of doing:

Roll Attack (Die #1)
-If 1 is a crit threat: Change to Crit Confirm (Die #2)
Add in dice for next Attack (Die #3)

Admittedly, this is less problematic than the other case though, since you can see crit threats on your own, rather than needing to hear from the opponents. Still seems needlessly complex to me, but YMMV.

So... what do we do here?

Minor Other Issue:
It has been specified you can't 5-foot step or otherwise move diagonally around a closed off area (such as the pillars). You can do this around people though, yes? Just to make sure.

The pits thread.

This one was basically a bunch of practice/rules discussion leading up to that, so the Pathfinder Pits and its associated Campaign Info should serve all your needs now, I believe... unless Jehova has plans for this thread to still serve a purpose of some sort, but I've not heard of any such thing.

Mikaze wrote:

Fer instance. Can't do that with a conjuration wizard. ;)

*Other awesomeness*

I recall reading that linked one before actually, and I do think that's a nice example of this :P As are the others.

Avh wrote:
It can be a devil one level, an angel the next, a dragon the one after, ...

That sounds like a bit of an exaggeration and more suitable for someone who's just not interested in sticking to one thing with their character. Players can cause similar disruption in that way with anything, just by virtue of whether or not they follow a character's personality/backstory in a reasonable fashion.

Avh wrote:
It is not fixed, and even with those archetypes in mind, you could have a dragon with 8 arms, 2 tails and 3 heads, who can pounce : it's even easy to do it.

And if that would fit a player's concept for their eidolon, what's the problem?

Actually, back to the devil, angel, etc. bit, I can think of a number of ways that could actually fit quite well. A devil and angel pair, switching level after level, could be manifestations of a person's psyche, one drawn towards evil, and the other towards good, with each trying to turn the summoner toward their own view and away from the other (side note, I actually came up with just such an idea some time ago, except it was a couatl/aghasura to keep a snake theme. No reason a devil/angel wouldn't work though).

Likewise, if you want to throw others into the mix, maybe the summoner just pulls random aspects of their subconscious into being when they summon, and so the eidolon (or eidolons?) shifts often. Maybe they pull not from a single plane when calling their eidolon, but a conglomerate of many. Heck, maybe they're just summoning something from Limbo.

As I said before, the flavor for an eidolon is pretty much whatever you could possibly imagine, and I personally find that to be a good thing. But of course, to each their own.

AnnoyingOrange wrote:
my main issues are with the lack of flavor of the eidolon as a creature and summon spells in general.

Wait... what? You actually find the ability to completely build up a creature's appearance and functionality and origin and whatever else, to fit nearly any concept you can imagine, to be a lack of flavor?

I mean, yeah, it's kind of a 'blank-slate' type of deal, but the eidolon's customizability for flavor is one of my favorite things about it. You put your own spin into it, and have pretty much full control over the design and how it fits in, etc. I'm way on the opposite end from considering that to be a problem :/

Edit: Lumiere pretty much brings up the same things I would about your other points.

In regards to 3 and 4 though, I don't find them to be that bad. You can easily think of it as a burst of power that the eidolon gets access too (leveling up) and the summoner uses that to alter it, while its in a more mutable state. Though completely redesigning it between levels is something I doubt I would personally do.

Then again...

Lemmy wrote:
What I meant is that full casters (clerics, wizards, druids, witches, sorcerers and oracles, if I'm not forgetting anyone) are pretty easy to build. I won't (I can't) forbid you from posting a build of any of those classes, but it's very likely I won't be particularly impressed or entertained by such builds either. My goal with this thread was to get forum members to post interesting builds. full-casters are a bit to easy to build, and their feat selection doesn't affect much of their performance unless you do make something really bizarre.

To be fair, there's some interesting things to be done with a few of those classes. Sorc/Dragon Disciple springs to mind as a pretty obvious one to break the mold, and I've actually statted up a transmuter wizard who shapeshifts and fights in melee (or uses natural attacks when not polymorphed).

So, there are some unusual things that can be done. I suppose they might qualify under your 'really bizarre' category, but ya know :P

Well, an Aquatic Sorcerer's 15th level ability is this.

Raise the Deep (Sp) wrote:
At 15th level, you raise water as per control water, but no water need be present. This created water is stationary and does not flow out of the area where you create it; it lasts 1 round per sorcerer level and then disappears. At 20th level, the dimensions of the effect are doubled. You may use this ability once per day.

Making me figure that yes, the water to be controlled needs to be there in the first place, while nothing in the spell description makes me think otherwise. I believe the matter of controlled water spilling out and flooding things is meant to be a byproduct of the fact that it is raised above where it would normally be, so if it goes above whatever's containing it, it can also spread further just by gravity.

My interpretation, anyway (with a different ability to provide what I might consider an indication of RAI).

Master of the Pits wrote:
attempt risky gene-splicing 'enhancements' to steeds,

:D Oh, I do so need to get Jack back in the games.

@ Vironus: Jehova should be making the threads I'm pretty sure, but is just going to be waiting until all of them are ready.

Blah, ninjas!

I am like so happy for this arena being set up it's like, I don't even know.

Rynjin wrote:

Dumping one stat to make you better at your best thing doesn't mean "you're good at one thing and suck at everything else".


You in no way "suck at everything else".

If this was directed towards my post, that's not exactly what I meant, and I understand what you're saying. But Cha is one of the ones that is easier to get away with on that.

As a different example, if you're playing a Fighter, Rogue, Cavalier, or some other class that doesn't have Will as a good save, and you decide to dump Wis to 7 in order to maximize Str/Dex/what have you, you are leaving a very large hole in your defenses, one which could see you taken out for an entire fight at some point.

If you dump Strength down to 7 on a caster and then get drained, you suddenly can't move at all, and likewise spend the rest of the fight out of commission.

It's not so much that a dump stat makes you 'suck at everything else,' but more like 'try not to let yourself be crippled by a single thing.'

But again, that's just a risk I would personally worry about when doing such a thing.

Cheeseweasel wrote:

Dump-statting offends me. YMMV, but I absolutely hate it.

I find nothing optimal about gaping holes in a character's capacities because they wanted one or two uber-stats.

An "optimal" character in my lexicon is one who is good at his/her job, yet doesn't suck at a secondary role or two.

I also tend (OK, pretty much always) to multiclass, which can skew which stats would be "dumpable" anyway...

But really; a post-racial 16 or 17 is, in my mind, MORE than adequate for a primary stat: that's what level attribute bonuses are for -- reaching those superhuman stat levels. I'd much rather be able to afford a decent CON and DEX to go with a Wizard's requisite INT score, for example...

Pretty much in agreement with all of this. As a quick aside, in my opinion...

'Min-maxing' seems more likely to involve taking dump stats in order to absolutely max out that one stat that you really want up to 20 after racials, and then capitalize on everything that stat can give you. As said though, this tends to leave rather large flaws in your character.

'Optimization' seems more likely to involve making the best of the options you have, and making sure that you will generally have a) your preferred option available often or b) other options, should your preferred not be accessible. As well as c) not being terribly bad at any particular thing (no easily exploitable saves, for example, or a severe lack of out-of-combat utility).

Those definitions are just my opinion of the terms, but regardless, I prefer the latter. That's not to say I don't dump stats - I certainly have before (though I do try to avoid it), but I rarely go for a maxed stat anywhere. I can't remember the last time, and I'm not sure if I ever have, had a stat all the way up to 20, and 19's are extremely rare for me as well. Edit: Wait! That's a lie, I can in fact think of a character that had a 20 starting stat quite recently - An alchemist who is/was all about bombing. To be fair, he is made for a PvP arena though, so hey.

I tend to prefer having stats spread more between 10's (in the stats that won't do much for the character), 12 or so (in stats that are not a great help, but nice to have - Dex, Con, and Int will usually fall in here for characters that aren't reliant on them already), and anywhere from 15-17 (in the stats that are key for the character), all after racials. Of course, that's certainly not always going to be how they end up, it's just my personal preference.

And, of course, this isn't to say the former, what I defined as Min-maxing, is a bad thing. I just don't personally find it to result in characters that are actually as effective as other options could be. Diminishing returns, and all that.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. YMMV.

Jehova wrote:
Oh hey, sorry, looks like the forum ate my announcement post, but THE THREAD ACTUALLY HAS BEEN UP SINCE LAST NIGHT (I totally stuck to that deadline).

*long drawn out gasp, complete with sparkle in eye* :D :D :D :D

I have a few possible ways of going about it, but in general, I tend to go something like this:

-Come up with a concept I like. A lot of times this involves some good combat ability, simply because I do like playing characters that are moderately kickass.
-Review options. This is where most of the crunch/optimization is done. If the idea I originally had would turn out to be pretty subpar, I will work harder to try and figure out ways to get it to be successful. If it's already strong mechanically though, I'll be less focused on optimizing.
-Put the main stuff together and fluff out some of the more vague details (skills that fit the character, for example).
-At this point, I probably have a pretty good idea of the character's personality at least, and maybe a good idea for backstory (unless this was already part of the concept).
-Do another quick review to make sure I like everything. I might actually deoptimize at this point if the character has grown in a bit of a different direction than I had originally started with.

I would say that's probably my usual way to go about it. Obviously there are other possibilities, and this can vary depending on the games (more combat focused games that are likely to be difficult for the party would probably warrant more focus on the mechanical optimization).

So, optimization is relatively high on my list, as I certainly like my characters to be able to contribute well to the party. But if it doesn't fit the concept well enough, then it's unlikely to be included.

My 2cp.

Jehova wrote:
• @Darkwolf, sorry for not responding to the Sunahl questions yet, I do have answers for those, though you may not need them anymore.

No problem. You are correct, I likely do not need them now, but as it is something that could come up for others, I imagine it's still good to figure them out. And okie doke, will go clear out Kailin's match history. I'm psyched for new matches with these guys though, I think they should hopefully both wreak a bit more havoc :)

Okay, descriptive appearance for the two is all updated. Yeesh, listing all the equipment is gonna be difficult when people get bunches of things, huh? He doesn't even have much and those item listings are somewhat verbose. Ah well. Also, I tried to make it clear in Sunahl's description, but settled on ooc text to make it more plain what his base form is. He kind of looks like all of them >_>

Anyway, should I go ahead and remove their previous match history, since those are kind of not part of this now?

@ bauers: You know, I was gonna ask about that when I saw both of your names together :P

Anywho, sidestepped the issue I was having with Sunahl by changing, um... a lot of things, but I like his new look better overall. So, Kailin and Sunahl are complete (barring any errors somewhere) and sent in.

And, now I need to go update their appearance, methinks (Sunahl without a doubt).

Triple posting, yes.

Okay, so I noticed I made a very silly mistake in Varin's dragon form health, by adding the bonus HP from the Con increase twice for some reason... I'm not sure how I messed that up, but yeah so he actually does not have more health than Galtraxis. But, I suppose he's not too bad at 386 either.

Raymond Lambert wrote:
...Who in their right mind would put a cloak of resistance on the eidolon instead of the summoner(well, maybe when scouting)? ...

A bit of a later 'ideal,' but I would go for Cloak on Eidolon, Robe of the Archmagi on Summoner. Only puts the Summoner at 1 less Resistance, and also gives other neat things too. Depending on item availability, of course.

Am putting Varin together for this. Are we allowed to use spells from splatbooks, such as Boneshatter, for example?

Edit: Er, actually, I might be dropping Boneshatter anyway, but would still be interested in an answer to the question in general :)

Edit 2: Oh, here's an interesting question.

Varin will be taking Eldritch Heritage Abyssal up to Improved for the +6 Inherent Bonus to strength. To do that, he needs 15 Cha, but he starts with 14 and uses a +6 Headband to go up past that.

Now, I'm planning on having him Wish it up to 15 so there's no way for him to lose the prereqs just if the headband happens to go, but that's not until level 19 or 20, while he takes the feat at level 11.

So, at level 11, a Headband of Charisma +2 is well within projected budget levels. I just want to make sure, is it alright if he assumedly uses that to qualify for picking up Improved Eldritch Heritage when he does?

Hmm, I thought this was listed in the FAQ, but I don't see it there. Well anyway, here you go.



Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Can you use the fused physical stats to qualify for feats? Or must the synthesist use his own stats?

Just as a Str11 character wearing a belt of strength +2 bumps him to Str13 and allows him to take Power Attack, you can do this. You just couldn't use the feat without the belt/eidolon-suit.

Piccolo wrote:
Well, the average result of 3d6 is 10.5, but I don't quite know how the last d6 works out, since you toss the lowest result. I've personally seen quite a lot of variance in that method, to the point where if there's more than two results that are less than 10 and nothing is decent, I just have them reroll. I once met a guy with spectacular bad luck with dice. Ended up rolling for him. Then again, I've seen people roll 18/00 Strength. I kid you not.

Well, I was testing it out on the boards recently, and got 20 point buy as the average out of rolling stats for a 4 person party. Admittedly one was a bit of an outlier at 9 points (the others were 22, 23, and 26). Obviously small sample size, but hey.

Piccolo wrote:

Actually no, you are wrong in that, most spellcasters cannot ignore their physical stats. For example, Wizards desperately need a high Dexterity, as they have horribly poor AC, must get a high Init or have to face firing into melee penalties for their ranged touch spells, a bad Reflex save, etc. And they desperately need a high Con, if only because their Fort save sucks and so does their HP.

Clerics need to either have a high Strength or a high Dexterity. Strength turns them into melee warriors and allows them to run around in heavy armor. Dexterity turns them into missile wielders, increases their poor Reflex save, and ups their AC now that they can't use heavy armor due to weight and lack of proficiency. That's not including having to get a decent Charisma for healing/turning checks, and a very high Wisdom for spellcasting, and somehow managing a decent Intelligence so they can get enough skill points to achieve competence.

I can go on, but you probably see my point.

Why does any of that not also pertain to Summoners? Everyone wants high Initiative, and adding to AC is even better. Ref is a bad save for Summoners as much as it is for Wizards. Fort is also a bad save for Summoners as much as Wizards, and I'd daresay they need Con doubly so as it also serves as extra hit points for their Eidolon (who, as you may recall, is generally behind in Hit Dice, despite acting like a Martial character in this scenario).

Clerics, meanwhile, do not need high Strength or Dexterity any more than a Summoner does. If you want them to be melee warriors (or whatever else that requires those stats), then yes, they need them, but the same is true of the Summoner, who can go for melee just as well. Clerics also have Medium armor proficiency compared to the Summoner's Light, so they're likely to actually be ahead in AC and/or need less Dex.

In general, stats for a summoner look like this (in my opinion, anyway):

Strength: Necessary if they want to engage in melee combat.
Dexterity: Always necessary, for Initiative, AC, and Reflex, since we're talking strengthening bad saves as well.
Constitution: Necessary for both themselves and their Eidolons, as well as Fortitude.
Intelligence: They're a 2 skill rank class so rather helpful, though the Eidolon alleviates this to a degree.
Charisma: Their casting stat, so they obviously need at least some of this.
Wisdom: Pretty much the only thing that isn't 'necessary,' and that's true of lots of other classes too (basically any non-Wis based caster that gets Will as a good save). Considering what it's tied to, I don't think it's a good stat for anyone either though.

You seem to be assuming that the only thing a Summoner would ever want to do is cast spells, which is why I said the same is true of any other caster. But considering the Summoner's 2/3 casting progression, a limited number of spells known, and a relatively small focus for their spellcasting list (Buff/Control is pretty much the extent of it) makes for not a whole lot to do if they're built solely for casting. And if all they wanted to do is pump Cha for DC's, they'd still be struggling based on the fact that their spell progression is lower than full casters (like the Druid).

Piccolo wrote:
Problem with the Summoner is that the rules are poorly worded for eidolons, they get spellcasting and they don't give a damn if their beast dies or not, plus that beast routinely takes the spotlight from the party warrior. I don't care WHAT argument you make; I ain't gonna allow the latter in any way. No NPC should do that. That's a recipe for a very short campaign.

Except the Eidolon is not an NPC. It's a class feature, just as all other classes get, and in general is actually somewhat hard pressed to keep up with the party warrior (although at low levels I can understand this more, that's pretty much when Natural Attacks are at their best, and early access to Pounce if and only if they go Quadruped is nice as well). But, if the Eidolon is as good as you say here, then why would the Summoner not care if they die? Their Summon Monster SLA's are certainly in no possible way going to be showing up a Fighter or any other Martial. At best, I can only really picture them providing flanks for the martial characters.

Again, just my thoughts on it though. Also, whew, that post got long.

MrSin wrote:
No one can really be Yuseke I don't think. Unless theres a spammable spirit gun equivalent I don't know about. Probably best done with another games mechanics, Pathfinder isn't a big fan of spammable mechanics like that. Psion maybe if your willing to go 3pp.

Aside from being quite weak (imo), Arcane Blast might actually be a possible match on that.

I mean, it's not as earthshatteringly powerful as it probably should be, but it seems like it's kind of along the right train of thought.

Stupidly long PM sent to Jehova. Contingent on response, Sunahl should be ready soon, hopefully, and once he's ready, all is good.

Also, I'm in agreement with Eben. This isn't exactly a historical coliseum, and while those ideas could be cool, certainly, they also add a lot of difficulties.

Edit: I like lists.

  • There are many many weapons in the game, and finding one amidst the battlefield requires a good deal of oversight - such as what it is and where it is located, adding to the amount of preparation that falls to the GM or adding some other kind of method for determining this, which adds to the complexity of the rules.
  • It also benefits some people more than others. Spellcasters who aren't trained in anything but simple weapons and probably won't use any weapons at all are not benefited by them being around, but if they have a spell to disarm their opponent, suddenly all they're doing is wasting their turn + a spell, and their opponent only wastes a turn picking up another weapon (Admittedly, this falls on them, be they spellcaster or just someone who makes a disarm attempt. If there were weapons strewn about and they decided to go for a disarm, that's probably their fault for making a silly choice, unless getting rid of their preferred weapon would be very useful.)
  • Releasing tigers into the arena will definitely favor the people with high AC and the ability to stand up to them in close combat, much more than the squishy wizard who plans for single combat (unless they can fly or something, in which case it just gives someone who can't get away a bunch of tigers to deal with). Not to mention it puts a lot more work on the Arbiter to run them.
  • In regards to the disarming thing also, there's a benefit of carrying backup weapons, I guess. Being suitably prepared for multiple situations seems like something that falls to the player.

As I said, I don't think they sound that bad, but it definitely adds a lot of extra work for the GM and further upsets balance to an extent (admittedly, there are other things that do that too, such as simply the size of the arena). So I do think it could be neat, but I don't know if I think it really would be for the best, in an arena that is at least trying to be as balanced for combatants as possible and to require relatively little outside adjudication.

Just my thoughts :P

Edited a number of times, I don't even

Piccolo wrote:

High fantasy point buy? Wooh, your DM is very generous. Most get 15, some just 10, or the 4d6 method.

Your experience is highly anecdotal, as a result of the generosity of the DM's you've played with. And yes, being able to ignore all your physical attributes is one of the primary objections to the class.

Actually, I think 4d6 averages to a pretty high point buy. I want to say around 20ish or so.

And being able to ignore your physical stats could be argued for every caster in the game. Druid, Cleric, and Oracles have the same hit die, same BAB, and larger spell lists. If the only use you think to get out of the Summoner is the eidolon, then you'd have better luck playing a Barbarian or fighter who isn't at 3/4 HD through the whole game, and if you want some casting and some martial ability, you'd likely be better off with a Paladin, Ranger, Magus, or Bard (last two being only 3/4 BAB but... the Eidolon is constantly at 3/4 HD in general, so they're actually more hardy and as likely to hit).

If you like the action economy of having a Companion, a Druid is likely better from having a larger spell list, and probably a lot better class features (if you're not running the summoner as doing any combat themselves, then Shield Ally is pretty much worthless. And if you're running a Druid as nothing but a caster, Wild Shape does much better keepaway than anything the Summoner's got). You also don't need to contend with clashing magic item slots between the two.

My thoughts on it anyway. YMMV.

The new draft looks good to me! Two questions (well, one and the other is probably gonna be a PM).

This arena doesn't cap at 12, does it? I assume not and the fact that 12 is the cutoff in advancement/wealth tables is just to conserve space, but figure I should double check. Otherwise, Kailin might not get all the abilities he'd really want :<

And the second question pertains to interpretation of Eidolon rules, so I'll PM that... although it might be worth posting here just for a wider group of minds thinking about it. Guess we'll just see if it's easy to resolve or not.

Jehova wrote:
Thanks Darkwolf, I've made the changes you suggested (including adding more capitals >.>).

Yay, I'm contributing! Anywho, still need to fill out the form for Sunahl, but should be ready for submittal soon.

DarthPinkHippo wrote:
What might its breath weapon be?

For the most part, you can probably follow similar progression to most standard dragons (as seen here).

But just as a fun side note in regards to the breath weapon, I think 4E had Purple dragons use a psychic breath weapon. PF doesn't really feature psychic damage as far as I know (except maybe in psionics? I don't really know much about that), but there is precedent for a Sonic breath weapon, such as the Imperial Sovereign Dragon, which could seem a bit similar.

If you want to stick to more standard fare though, Electricity seems to match its color the best (...or perhaps Cold?)

^ It would target both of you. However, since you yourself are not an extraplanar outsider (...assumedly*), only the eidolon would be affected by it.

Edit: And, since Enlarge Person only affects humanoids, in order to use it on a synthesist, I think it would have to be the synth casting it, as per their Share Spells ability. Less positive on that part though. (Dismissal/Banishment is mentioned in the synth description specifically though, so I am sure on that one.)

Now I'm wondering what an extraplanar outsider with levels of synth summoner could be like. Such as, perhaps, a demon that bound an angel or another demon to serve as its shield in battle... That could be rather interesting P:

Also of note, Fast Healing can bring an eidolon from unconscious back to battle capacity if it doesn't immediately go poof.

That said, Seraphimpunk's probably got the right idea to really make them work together most suitably.

Also @ anon fem: Dismissing it is a standard action, which, if your eidolon just got knocked out, may be a turn you don't want to spend doing anything other than contributing to the battle. Hence, why it can actually be more useful to see the eidolon go from conscious to dead in one shot.

By the way, having gone about filling out Kailin's stat submittal, at least one thing (besides the lack of capitalization... :/ ) stood out at me.

It's pretty minor but the breakdown of skill ranks on the example template seems to have them listed:

Rogue 8+4, Wizard 2+4 etc... Making it look like

Total Points: 26 (12 Rogue, 6 Wizard, 6 Fighter, +2 favored class [multitalented])

That seems kind of messy. Would it be fine if we just did something like Rogue 8, Wizard 2, etc... and then 12 Int? (4*3)

So the above example would be (8 Rogue, 2 Wizard, 2 Fighter, +2 Favored Class [Multitalented], +12 Int).

And Kailin for another example would be (6 Summoner, 3 Int) from 3 Levels of Summoner at 2 ranks a piece, and a +1 Int Mod for 3 HD.
Also, shhhh on knowing stuff about my build :X

Since Int gains on skill ranks are pretty much class independent, I personally like that more, and since Int gains are also retroactive, it seems more organized.

Just one thing that stood out when I was going over that though. Like I said, not a big deal, but it seemed a little messy to me as is.

My assumption has been that we are going to be matched up more or less regularly. So if there's an odd person out, they just wait until one of the other fighters is free, and then get paired up. Of course, that's just my guesswork. I could be wrong.

Also, I'll be submitting Kailin first I think, I just haven't yet. Partly since the full arena has not been set up yet, and partly because I'm fairly lazy. I think I might have him ready later tonight though, and if so, I suppose I can submit him before the arena actually goes up.

Just of note, both Racial bonuses and Circumstance bonuses stack with themselves as well as others. So, even if both of these were racial or circumstance, they would actually still stack together.

That said, I am in agreement that they do not apply to the same thing. Change Shape applies to looking human, in general, such as hiding mannerisms or something behind the fact that you look just like a human, so people might not realize you aren't one. Realistic Likeness impersonates specific individuals, which seems, to me at least, to be a bit of a different ball game.

Heroism is all around good, though it doesn't exactly add to damage (except in the round-about hit-more kind of way, which as a 1/2 BAB TWF build, is probably important). Bull's Strength, without a doubt, although this becomes less useful if/when you get a stat booster to strength.

What exactly do you have for the build so far?

Syken will be up for participating in the Hard Mode encounter (will Galtraxis go shopping? :P ).

I'll use the same build and all, though he might change the extracts he had prepared and more adequately fill them all out (I kinda just ballparked it and left a lot of slots open before, but if this'll be a more serious battle, it might be good to do as much preparation as possible).

I actually probably could make the build better - such as he could have taken a point out of Int and not had to dump Str and Cha so fiercely, then used a Tome +5 rather than +4 to have the same end stats. But, I'm not sure I'd want to change it now.

Anywho though, I'm actually gonna be working on setting Varin up for this. A 1-on-1 dragon fight just sounds way too fun to pass up (though he'll not be challenging at any lower level than Syken, unfortunately).

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