
Wallace Boyd |

Posted this in gameplay but realized it had no place there.
Well... crap. I was basing this off the idea that the dragon was large. Which wallace might feel something we could possibly pull off. Huge dragon is not something even Wallaces right angled thinking could present anything but an annoyance to.
yeah we might be badasses for our level but that thing is going to kill us regardless of our tricks. my suggestion would be to hold onto 2 hero points a piece in order to take advantage of the 'Cheat Death' option. Because if that dragon follows the chart it is at the very least a CR13 challange to our CR 4ish party (Party of L3 characters with the advanced template on account of our superior stats. possibly slightly higher due to 3 players having advanced races.). Horry sheet.
The plan will still result in is being able to do something though as both the alchemist fire and the tanglefoot bag target touch AC. whish is absolutely terrible on a dragon this large. Though on seeing that Wallace would likely suggest to Rhavenna to try and lasso a wing or something rather than fight it up front. Aiming for touch AC and generally trying to debuff the creature rather than actually fighting as we absolutely cant.
I'm also getting the suspicion that we aren't really supposed to fight this thing, so most likely what will happen is Wallace reveals it and perhaps 1-2 of us beat the Fearsome presence check. Then the NPC's duke it out. But hero points ought to mean even if someone does make it to the battlefield they are able to survive this scene.

Wallace Boyd |

it casts spells(fog), can speak, able to hear a human shouting from extreme range (smaug much?) and has a horde of hobgoblins who are in their own part fairly badass as minions.
If that isn't a dragon Wallace is going to eat his yak.
but hey, large sized means we have a decent chance of surviving one of its attacks. And it means if it happens to roll exceptionally badly a tanglefoot bag works on it normally.

Wallace Boyd |

Murdering this dragon and making it into drink cozies for the whole mercenary band sounds like fun.
I wonder if anyone in the band happens to have the Dragoncrafting feat. Though honestly I feel making such a niche ability its own feat is really silly.
Hrmmm... Short answer. Yes. Magic crafting seems the best option for wallace and fits thematically. *shifty eyes* well so long as you don't mind some fridge logic horror attached to your various magic items.
I had this idea in my head where wallace was going to trundle down the route of augment summoning and make these amazing super buffed up death beasts to deal with the mooks in an encounter while you guys could focus on the main baddies.
But now that I sit here and think I realize that due to the sheer power level of bad guys we are facing so far (and are violently murdering) that even buffed up the wazoo a horde of small elementals or whatever isn't going to do much for us that buffing you guys up properly wouldn't already.
Summoning doesn't have much support beyond those feats, most of the other ones being restricted to natures ally. I see wallace as more the type for binding and controlling longer living minions than summoning wave after wave of trash mobs anyway.
The summon spells are good for utility (air elemental to clear fog!) but I don't have the number of feats to do both that and buff.

Wallace Boyd |

Hrmmm...
Having looked around Bladed dash is basically the first 2 feats in the line. Level 2 spell in comparison to a L4 spell. Doesn't seem terrific unless your full attack is rediculous.
To be honest given a choice between them I'd just use the feat slots for extra magus arcana. There are loads of nice ones and the black blade/Kensai loses out on quite a few.
Secondly what I meant to say that if you just threw the whole bundle of stuff at the dragon would be better than just 'dropping' it. Though that depends entirely on Coreues interpretation of what we are doing.
He might require some other action or burning of a hero point, either from me to create this little shrapnel bomb or by you to throw it. (I'm quite happy to burn my point.)
Oh and if you are going to throw them one at a time you might want to know far as i can tell nothing prevents splash weapons from benefiting from circumstance or morale bonuses to damage. Which would mean a cool +2 on the damage from each hit. Wouldn't work very well on the whole bundle but dropping the bundle means you can get into the meat of combat faster.
Corerue, is there any stipulations you'd like to add to Wallaces insane alchemist fire/lamp oil bomb?

Maiathreen |

I'm too far away now to get the extra +1 I'm sure Dresskel is further than 30 feet away. Also I wan to nightcrawler across the field...well mostly if only level 4 spells weren't such a limited resource for me.
Anyone ever seen the Arcane Battojutsu line from rite publishing? So much fun to be had. :) not sure why it has to be the first turn in combat or the surprise round. Still think it should be spend an arcane point get 30ft range attack or give yourself reach for all attacks that turn.

Wallace Boyd |

Hrmm...
Well Black Blade Ripsote by rite seems to have possibilities. I don't see the Battojutsu line on D20pfsrd so I can only guess it hasn't popped up there yet.
With the limited spell progression of the Kensai and the loss of Spell recall as an ability due to the archetype I'm fairly sure outside of GM Fiat poofing around the battlefield is going to be a very long term goal.
It's a shame there isn't a feat similar to arcane heritage for wizard schools. Conjuration(Teleportation) might give you an inroad to a shorter ranged version.
As to reach spells the new Long arm spell from the Advance Class guide just flat out increases it by 5ft. I also know there is a much nastier one in the Deep Magic book by Kobold press (which I really need to find an excuse to use. So much cool stuff in there) they also have a bunch of dimensional conjuration magic all about using partial phasing as a weapon.

Maiathreen |

“He unsheathed his sword and all I saw was a flash of light, and I was cut.”
Prerequisites: Arcane pool and iaijutsu class features, Weapon Focus.
Benefit: Once per combat encounter, during the surprise round or the first round of a combat encounter, you may expend 1 point from your arcane pool and extend the reach of your chosen weapon to 30 feet for one attack. Special: You may select this feat as a magus arcana so long as you meet its prerequisites.
"There was a blur, and then some blood. I never saw him draw."
Prerequisites: Arcane pool, iaijutsu, and superior reflexes class features, Weapon Focus, Arcane Battoujutsu.
Benefit: During a surprise round and the first round of a combat encounter, you may expend 1 point from your arcane pool and extend the reach of your chosen weapon by 5 feet for the duration of the surprise round and the first round of combat. Special: You may select this feat as a magus arcana so long as you meet its prerequisites.
“You’re dead already.”
Prerequisites: Arcane pool, iaijutsu, iaijutsu focus, and superior reflexes class features, Weapon Focus, Arcane Battoujutsu, Improved Battoujutsu.
Benefit: If you have successfully hit an opponent with your chosen weapon on your previous turn, then, at the beginning of this turn, you may expend a point from your arcane pool and make a special combat maneuver check as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity against that opponent, you use your magus level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus, and you can add your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. If you are successful, your opponent must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 10 +1/2 your magus class level + your Int modifier) or suffer damage equal to 10 points per magus class level you possess. If the save is successful, your opponent suffers 10d6 points of damage. The damage type inflicted is the same as your chosen weapon. You may use this feat only once per day. Special: You may select this feat as a magus arcana so long as you meet its prerequisites.

Wallace Boyd |

Those are honestly really disappointing in my eyes. For a feat that is a painfully specific situation that you can use it in none of them even do much impressive.
Greater Arc Batto is basically a 1/day spell like version of Disintegrate. (Disintergate+ Intensified spell past L16.) Which is a L6 magus spell anyway.
The Long arm spell grants you reach with no limitations for most of a combat.
And Bladed dash does what the base Arc Batto along with getting you next to your opponent and a freebie attack that adds your intelligence modifier to hit.
Feels like these would need a significant boost to actually be worth the feat slots. Interesting idea though.

havoc xiii |

40d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 1, 1, 5, 3, 3, 2, 4, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 3, 2, 4, 6, 3, 3, 4, 2, 3, 2, 6, 6, 2, 3, 3, 4, 1, 3, 1, 5, 3, 2, 6, 1) = 120
Or
200 always
Or on a save 5d6 or 10d6
Greater wins out over disintegrate, its a level 6 spell already so it can't be intensified.
Granted I'll admit the once per combat portion of arcane and improved never made sense to me. Just allow the spending arcane pool for it when ever you feel like. But its the flavor I love rather than the raw numbers.
Maiathreen draws his blade, space and time is torn asunder as he slashes Soul Taker. A rip in the air appears in front of the orc as he is sliced from shoulder to hip.
I really like the idea of using bladed dash with greater as well. Hit the target keep going as bladed dash continues sheath sword and watch as enemy explodes in a shower of gore on next turn. Its every person's dream who ever watched an anime with samurai.

Wallace Boyd |

*shrug* Disintegrate also has the advantage of being able to be cast multiple times in a combat, not negated by being ambushed and can be changed for other more lethal save based spells (Like flesh to stone or the L5 baleful polymorph) as desired each day.
Additionally one can purchase a Rod of Maximize spell(54, 000gp) and use it on said spell. 240 damage is quite good for erasing critters.
I get where you are coming from on the samurai anime things, I do agree that image is cool. However a simple reflavoring of the magus's already available spells will make life much easier for you than picking a combat style that effectively leaves you with three dead feats any time you face more than one enemy. Never mind that as a Kensai/black blade your arcane pool is reduced making such tricks harder to pull off.
@ Corerue No worries, feel better and get back to us then. I'll just use the time to cook up more hare brained schemes.
Oh and I wanted to ask, as I have as of now used it for nothing would you be alright with me selecting a different feat than Spell focus:conjuration? I had planned to take the summoning feat line but I realize that with Wallace's multiple focuses unless I happen to suddenly gain a bunch of extra feats (which is always awesome) I won't get much out of it.

Wallace Boyd |

Hrmmm... so I have an idea for a feat to replace it with.
Lifting hands of god. talmandor's lifting actually would absolutely ooze creepy flavor when taken in the fride logic of the sort of problems likely to crop up when the cleric in the party has a 'spark of essence' from wallace's particular deity.
Some reflavoring would likely be needed on the whole golden glowing wings thing. But the ability to heal people up to an hour in advance would make my job so much easier.
The in game requirement of taking 3 10d6 drops is a bit of an odd duck but understandable due to the resource it came from.
The whole idea being the feat comes with feeling closer to your particular god after having a near death experience and really each permutation of the feat ought to be different depending on a divine casters deity.
But I can very easily finesse my way into those requirements as well, whatever works.
So it would be both flavorful and incredibly useful to have.
Past that brainwave I have a few others in mind but none as specifically useful.

Wallace Boyd |

Cool, with only a -1 to hit on a touch attack I'm pretty sure that dragon is in for a truckload of hurt this round. (well actually right now if you permit Maiathreen to utilize the ruling you just used and dump the entire bag on the dragon right now.)
With just a little preparation I can be basically assured to survive those falls. Could likely get all three of them done in one day. One hour if I can find a specific magic item in the camp to borrow. (boots of the cat.)
I'm glad your work has decided to give you a job you obviously have the skills for. Hope it works out for ya

Wallace Boyd |

Blurgh airport sleeping sucks.
Ok, but whats the spirit of the feat? Face viable death three times and survive? The feat itself is flavored for the Avoral Talmandor, a patron spirit of Andoran. Yet mechanically anyone can access the feat as the only requirement is to fall three times. A royal family member of the thrice damned house of Thrune (Andoran's sworn enemy) could qualify for such a feat just as easily as a follower of the Avoral itself.
I like the feat's mechanic and think the flavor is awesome but the requirements simply don't fit all cases. Perhaps I didn't say it properly in that last post of mine but I agree it doesn't please me to need to manipulate the system in order to qualify for a feat. A major problem is that the feats prerequisites are not within the spirit of the feat at all either. It does not say unprepared fall, it just says fall. There is nothing preventing someone from getting ready for the fall before hand. No mention of the patron of andoran, just 'jump off a cliff three times'. A 10d6 fall isn't even lethal by itself after level 4-5 anyway. Heck with a single magic item (boots of the cat) one would easily be able to make a business out of pushing people off a cliff until they feel closer to their god.
Achievement feats in general encourage a higher level of metagaming to acquire them to begin with. There is a reason you haven't seen more of them after the Legacy of Fire AP.
I'd love to swap the feat around some in order to make the qualifiers something that might actually happen without me specifically attempting to make it happen.(that 'survive' qualifier encourages planning) Horrible spiky death cliffs you are actually intended to fall off of tend to be few and far between in campaigns with a couple exceptions. Rise of the runelords having quite a few as an example.
I suppose it really comes down to what one considers metagaming in their game. I've already made a connection to time/space manipulation for Wallaces casting powers. A feat that lets him 'overwatch' a healing spell on someone fits his style thematically and lets that Time/dimensional manipulation flavor I've been going for appear better defined.

Rhavenna |

Honestly the best way to do achievement feats is for only the GM to know the requirements and grant the feat when they're completed.
The goal is to gain from surviving something that by all rights should have killed you, not something that was barely moderately dangerous because you planned for it to happen.

Wallace Boyd |

*shrug*
Flavor wise I see it more as an idea of the equivalent to 'magic scars' past a certain point whatever it is that someone sues to heal themselves with magic is going to replace more of their original body than their physiology can cope with.
I figure significant points of singular damage (fall from a high cliff, critical from a giants great axe exct) could be used as points to create said 'scars'. Eventually they would stack up to a point where they start doing odd things.
That seems like a viable idea for how it could work. Perhaps 3 instances where the individual takes more damage than they have (total) hitpoints in a single round and survives?
As to the feat itself that is the feats implied idea, not the feats binary requirement. Never mind that it isn't how the feats work in pathfinder anyway. You need to burn a feat slot to get them once you qualify, were that not the case then I'd be entirely fine with using a method similar to how you describe. Though it would be highly unlikely most GM's would run a secondary system where they had to track even more things like that.

DM Corerue |

Ugh didn't sleep worth a hells bell...
So to chime in as I agree with Rhavenna.
They inspire metagaming but metagaming in the sense that you as the player know of the feats exsistence and the best way to survive it but your character doesn't know this and preparing in advance is the game breaking part.
I've played with a number of people who tracked, by saving the links to posts, Relentless Butcher because a lot of DM's aren't just gonna let it fly that you accomplised some achievement with brutal ease gracefully. Granted Relentless Bucher takes a lot more work but you understand my point. At least I hope.
Achievement feats however are woefully ot of practice and not updated enough as well.
However being achievement feats I took them as just that, once accomplished you acheived that feat. You earned it however I have my own version of these feats namely because of what I stated above. Lack of flavor, too focused and not enough of them. I've never posted this because, like usual, I tend to take on too much at once and the list isn't as complete as it could be.
Also I do the massive damage rules so those falls can still be a deadly affair without these boots of the cat... Which I hadn't heard of until now. lol. So currently they are not in the makeup of what is in the camp.
Case in point.
All Gnoll's must die changed to Crusaders Zeal. The reason for this is it specifically stats Minions of Evil Gods. so in essenece you could aim for something like this in a WotR game and eventually net a +2comp on atk & dmg and will saves vs evil minions.
The trophy could be a disfigured holy symbol for the requirement, I pictured a Warhammer 40k feel for it. Like a medal emblaoned on your armor for you accomplishments and a symbol that angered and intimidated your foes.

DM Corerue |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

so posted with my pad as my Phone is MIA at the moment.
I sorta left it at work on my way home and driving 600+ miles for a phone was... not. worth. it. So i have been getting texts of Saw and 'I wAnT tO pLaY a GaMe...' the entire time I am hoome on my Facebook messenger... Smartasses.
Never trust oilfield people in the same sense of falling asleep at a smashing party with friends. You'll just wake up with a peter on you face. IN permanent marker or even paint pen...

Maiathreen |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Some of the achievement feats are a bit odd I'll admit...though I suddenly imagine an OOTS strip making fun of that...I did read a fanfic set in a D&D world where the main character purposely did a dungeon to get extra XP so he could craft items with no loss.
I'm not sure how you normally reach these feats...how do you fall 3 times and take that much damage? Wouldn't you try to stop doing that after the first time you got splattered along the side of a cliff?

Wallace Boyd |

Boots of the cat are one of my favorite low level pathfinder items. Being able to Dropshock into a battlefield or survive a huge fall can be fantastically useful.
Relentless butcher is crazy once you actually get it, getting a freebie rider stun lock chance as a crit fisher class (looks at Maiathreen) is really fun. Even if the DC is low enough that most critters make it on all but a 1.
More fun if combined with the stunning/dazing critical feats available at high levels.
Regardless it sounds like I and Corerue will need to cook up a proper qualifier for the modified version of this feat and go from there. As such I'm going to select Craft Wondrous item for this level and hope to qualify for this feat before the end of the campaign.

DM Corerue |

Yeah, there are some players on the board that have a special spoiler on each of their characters. Seeing as Pbp games don't always survive that same character. But what they do is reincarnate the character as something else but reuse the name. Almost like PFS in a way.
So each game that name passes through he keeps his tally goin. He also, on a separate word doc tracks each post where it occured for Relentless butcher. I bet if I went back I could pull it off with one of my retired characters lol.
Mai
If your in a game where you are at heights, a flying character or commonly grabbed by enemies and dropped from a great height. (IN IK there were giant birds that would do that in a battle. Swopp Grapple Fly up Realllllly High and drop. Repeat until adventurer meat is tender...) Thunderbirds would snatch you up and then use their thunder aura to shock the s&$& out of you. usually doing 15d6 damage before dropping you for 15d6 followed by a lightning breath every 1d4 rounds for another 15d6 damage.
In IK magic items like Boots of the cat would be extremely rare like all magic items...
Esepcially when you have a % chance to lose 5hp permanently.

Wallace Boyd |

Hrmm... Still feel that simply being rendered 'mostly dead' regardless of the method would be most suitable for the particular achievement feat in question.
Pretty sure I'm going to need to start tracking successful compulsion/charm spells too.
Gifted Mesmerist looks like it could be loads of fun. And very easy to access if I happen to need to suppress a crowd.
Between commands and mind reading social encounters ought to be fun stuff with Wallace. Never mind the buffed up normal skills.
As to magic items, lemme know if you have something in mind and I can likely help you out. Though any of the wonkier combos are going to need a couple peer reviews before I unleash them. Custom item rules are 'more guidelines really' to quote a certain skeletal pirate.
Being that my first character for this board was Argus I think I'm going to save reusing him for a bit. I'd honestly wanted to run him in the Wrath game but the orcy paladin won the fight in my brain. Argus is still sitting in a corner muttering bitterly.

Wallace Boyd |

*shrug* the only issue I'd make of it would be the recovering nature of Panache over Arcane pool points. Makes parry/riposte not nearly as imporessive. Though having a way to access uncanny dodge as a class that is basically a sitting duck when ambushed is quite good.
Secondly I'm a bit lost at the moment on placements.
So previous round Xiang yu passed by us in his movement. The current round he acted, charged forward and engauged the dragon in combat.
That implied to me that the dragon was within charge range.
Which meant Maiathreen was withing range to fly up and lob the flaming death ball (the alchemist fire and lamp oil.) at the dragon.
The rest of took actions that were not really made different by differences of range but it would be good to know that one.
Secondly, I assume the fog dissipated and the exploding smoke arrow shot by hawk was placed between us and the balistae to foil their murdering us?
This would mean that the fog cloud wallace was summoning an elemental to deal with is no longer an issue. Time to pick something else of the list.

DM Corerue |

Apologies there for not clarifying it, its a large clearing between the wood line and the fortress. Xiang Yu is running towards but not engaging the dragon yet. He was merely challenging it. I get a little lost in my writing sometimes Dragonstorm does that too me. Will try and be more clear later. Honestly don't do much Outside fighting in my Pbp games so trying to cover all the scales of outside movement is rough sometimes.

DM Corerue |

Right now the internet I use is blocking all attempts to use Google maps, which irks me to no end. Even my camp blocks ANYTHING that allows (filesharing) AKA even youtube. It drives me nuts. Because the internet is so slow it takes 10 mins for Piazo to load let alone my Pbp's games. My phone is faster but Google docs is impossible.

DM Corerue |

If you want we can hurry this battle up. Or skip and move forward. Thats an option so we can continue the story. I have d100 charts that make it easy to decide which side wins and how bad/good they do.
Its way anticlimatic but it would speed things up tremendously until I can figure out my mapping issues. :/
Theres also the option of doing more than one round worth of actions, granted that means we may need to do some retconning based on certain conditions. Or I will pause if someone gets knocked unconscious. But thats another option that I am currently going in another game. Granted we are fighting mooks but its made battles complete in a day instead of several days/weeks.

Wallace Boyd |

Lame. So that would mean Maiathreens attack was likely invalidated last round due to being far away. improvised flaming oil cluster bombs are not exactly something that you easily pitch at 200ft-ish distance.
No worries on movement scales, I know a lot of PbP that only give lip service to the idea.
The plan to drop a firebomb on the dragon is still entirely useable(just means Maiathreen would have needed to use his previous round moving. feathering it with arrows works just fine.
I'm mostly attempting to understand it so I can get a decent plan for Wallaces actions this round. Though I will say that one of the ballistae would be a mighty enticing target to hit with fire.
And it sucks that your work is such a pain in the ass relating to the internet.
And I echo my fellow player. I have plans for that dragon and all of those plans require it being dead first.

DM Corerue |

Yeah, the dropping oil prices are not helping things. :/
Over 400 laid off this month alone. Not just contractors but company men as well. So yeah. Being the new guy is rough. Didn't expect this and there is one thing I know. Oil companies will get there profits to stay in the black. Thats why you have to be careful with the job you go into. Because none are permanent. No one is irreplaceable. Lol so working a lot to save money and get ready just in case. Knock on wood it hasn't ever happened but that doesn't mean it won't.

Wallace Boyd |

Dunno man, dragon body parts likely sell quite well as home remedy for certain... weaknesses of vigor commonly suffered by aging men?
I mean Tiger penis and rhino horn sells amazingly well. arguably certain parts of dragons would sell just like that. And hey what wiht the terrain we don't even need to maintain the corpse after it dies! go go frozen hellscape.
Though I'd also say that I have no real intentions with the dragons corpse... currently. As currently I am just a little bit too low of a level to animate said corpse into my obedient puppet.
And yes, hopefully all the non-sense with your job calms down soon. I very much like this game and would personally enjoy it to continue. Never mind the whole bit about you not needing to find a new livelihood.
I was hoping that our glorious GM would chime in on the damage total for sad improvised weapon. Lamp oil can emulate alchemist fire when ignited like a molotov but it takes a round to make the wick.
Arguably tossing the stuff like we are is going to waste quite a bit of it.
So where we technically have 12d6 of damage in that bundle I wouldn't say more than a half. perhaps even just a third actually does anything.
Mechanics wise I'd say 4d6-6d6 fire damage, DC20-ish? to avoid catching fire potentially dealing 2d6 a round for 1-3ish rounds due to the presence of adequate fuel.
Oil
A pint of oil burns for 6 hours in a lantern. You can use a flask of oil as a splash weapon. Use the rules for alchemist’s fire, except that it takes a full round action to prepare a flask with a fuse. Once it is thrown, there is a 50% chance of the flask igniting successfully.
You can pour a pint of oil on the ground to cover an area 5 feet square, provided that the surface is smooth. If lit, the oil burns for 2 rounds and deals 1d3 points of fire damage to each creature in the area.
ALCHEMIST'S FIRE
Price 20 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Alchemist's fire is a mix of several volatile liquids that ignite when exposed to air. You can throw a flask of alchemist's fire as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet.
A direct hit deals 1d6 points of fire damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of fire damage from the splash. On the round following a direct hit, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt to extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage. Extinguishing the flames requires a DC 15 Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target a +2 bonus on the save. Leaping into a large body of water or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the fire. Crafting this item is a DC 20 Craft (alchemy) check.