Yeah I wrote into Yazan's story that she typically gets abuse from strangers more often than not. Most of the time if she is treated favorably it is because someone thinks she can be useful.
I'd appreciate it if you don't overdo it though.
BTW, I'd never seen the "Unhindering Shield" feat before. That's kind of awesome, and it opens up a whole bunch of interesting options for THW and TWF fighters. Also monks.
Hm...I figured you dropped it to 5 because you wanted to play a character that is effectively handicapped when it comes to empathy and understanding others, and gets that kind of reaction.
I mean, Charisma is harder to quantify, but I went by "Has no awareness of the needs of others, almost no sense of empathy", if it was Intelligence, you would be halfway between an ogre and a dog, and way below human average.
I understand it's an easy 4 points to squeeze out via dumping if Cha is not used for the build mechanically, but I did assume you dropped it so low for RP reasons(incidentally, why I kept the 10 in point buy, so he's an average dwarf at 8 cha) - so yeah, in order to be true to the vision you had, maybe say how you intended this to manifest in-game so I can act accordingly?
@Unhindering Shield: Yep, it's awesome that Monks get to enjoy it. But it's a pity there was no love for traditional sword+board, or more love for tower shields, for that matter.
I understand it's an easy 4 points to squeeze out via dumping if Cha is not used for the build mechanically, but I did assume you dropped it so low for RP reasons...
How I build characters varies from one character to another. But I often start with a character build concept and think "What would this character be like?" and "How would this character get this way?" Once I began seeing Yazan as a low-CHA character, I couldn't see any reason not to keep dropping CHA further.
I usually interpret Charisma as your personal magnetism. A high Charisma character attracts others, and people are more interested in pleasing them. They are entertaining and charming.
Someone who doesn't have that kind of magnetism would tend to get ignored, or have their opinions dismissed. People would find a low-CHA character unpleasant and unappealing. While Charisma and physical attractiveness are not directly related, most "ugly" races also have a CHA penalty. So that is a part of it for Yazan. She is pretty freakish in almost any society. People have a hard time seeing past the surface with her, or caring about her needs and opinions.
Most people that don't just reject her end up seeing Yazan as a useful tool towards some end, and not as a person they are trying to get to know. As a result, Yazan tries to get approval by doing favors for others since this is what she knows. Deep down she is pretty lonely. But she is suspicious of friendly overtures because in the past this usually only occurred because someone wanted something from her. It does mean though that once others accept her into a group she will be very loyal to them since she has a hard time making friends and thus prizes the ones she has. She also tends to overlook the flaws of those she can call "friends," and this has got her into trouble before.
I figure once people (i.e. the party) have a chance to see how she acts and get used to her appearance, they may learn to see her differently. Hopefully that won't take too long for player-characters. :)
So essentially a 'first impression' thing that has no relevance later on? In that case we may as well skip ahead to Richard and Dvalin knowing you.
Ability score also defines Charisma as a measure of empathy, emotional inteligence, so to say - not just personal magnetism or force of personality - incidentally, the "ugly" races are also the ones less empathic, while those with a cha bonus are not necessarily 'pretty'...but I agree it's harder to pinpoint than most other stats.
Also why I personally find it challenging to roleplay it as a dump score - I tried with a Minotaur(in Midgard Campaign Setting), but that game folded with GM disappearing. (The game would have been fun with 2 scalykinds in the party to be playfully hostile towards each other.)
I assumed you meant the dump to represent some really outstanding character flaw...personally I envisioned a serial killer with no regret/empathy/compassion - they can blend in pretty well but...yeah.
Thanks for clarifying that!
Just got home from an unexpected work shift after having also been up all day yesterday, so I'm pretty dang tired. Post to come either later today or tomorrow.
So essentially a 'first impression' thing that has no relevance later on? In that case we may as well skip ahead to Richard and Dvalin knowing you.
There's a reason we're all player characters.
You don't use diplomacy skill to improve the attitude of other player characters towards you, for example. The players just decide how they treat each other. And player-characters with low CHA scores are allowed to be friendly towards others if they want, and vice-versa.
There's a reasonable amount of adjustment expected from a RP standpoint. Friction will be plausible at the beginning.
But let's not overdo it. Yazan is dependable and a team player. Reacting negatively to Yazan because "it's how my character would act" could get pretty tired after a while and will only serve to disrupt the game. Our job as players is not to explain why our characters won't work together; it's to imagine reasons why our characters would work together.
The game will be much more fun for both of us if we can do that.
Ability score also defines Charisma as a measure of empathy, emotional inteligence, so to say - not just personal magnetism or force of personality...
The CRB defines Charisma thus: "Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance."
I think I've covered that. But rather than just go by the textbook definition, which is a bit vague and not always useful, I also try to let the game inform me of what the ability scores do based on how the game mechanics treats them.
If by empathy you mean, does Yazan relate to others? The answer is no, not much. Yazan has trouble relating to other people as her background and upbringing has been very different than most.
But if by empathy you mean the ability to understand the motivations of others, and tell what they are thinking and feeling, I would say that mechanically that comes under the sense motive skill and therefore Wisdom. Wisdom Yazan has.
And let's not conflate Charisma and Alignment. There's no reason a low CHA character ought to be a "serial killer" as that is really an alignment issue rather than a score (or possibly a sanity issue). High CHA characters can be evil, and low CHA characters can be good. Obviously.
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I understand we've had our friction in the past in GGGM's game but I had hoped we could have a fresh start in this one.
It sounds like you think I am playing my character "wrong" and that I have broken an unwritten rule by dumping my CHA to 5. You are entitled to your opinion, but if you are critical of the way I roleplay, I'd appreciate it if you kept it to yourself. I'll play my character and you can play yours.
I think you misunderstood.
I expected that the reason for the 5 Charisma was to explore a certain character aspect in roleplay. I even mentioned that I tried to do so myself, in a different game.
I would have provided friction to support that vision, and when you clarified, suggested that we skip the friction part and have been working together previously in-character.
I don't think you are playing something wrong, and dump stats are common in most RPG's. I am not a fan of them, but it is not my game, and thus not my place to judge. And it was no attempt to do so.
With the serial killer I tried to give an example of what I expected merely as a basis so that you could see my point - alignment did not factor into this, it was simply a showcase of a character with no empathy for others that nonetheless plays well with others and blends in.(Dexter in the same-name tv show was a Serial Killer and arguably not 'evil'. (And the empathy part was based on the SRD comparison table)
Whatever friction there was in the other game, it was definitely not my intent to drag any closet corpses over here(I believed we had dealt with that, if there's anything that needs talking shoot me a PM). All I did was try to understand the way you meant this aspect of your character to work out after you spoke up in response to my first interaction(where I mentioned I assumed there was a roleplay reason for the very low score, something you meant to explore as integral flaw of the character).
It was by no way meant as a criticism, I asked, you answered, I thanked you for the clarification.
Apologies if my wording suggested anything else.
I second Yazan's question regarding Earthfall...especially the extended information concerning Winter Council/Lantern Bearers, Drow and Elven Exodus - as a player I know but I believed that could be information relevant or revealed in the AP- good point to bring it up!
As in, how much is assumed to be known by the characters at this point of the Golarion Timeline-
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You probably know the general history of Earthfall, especially as it's been memorialized in the Aroden myths. You know absolutely nothing about the Winter Council (and any ooc knowledge about the Winter Council are spoilers, fyi. I'm really mad at the level of spoilers in the Adventure's Guide and generally about. The Winter Council is a very big reveal later on).
The Lantern Bearers are a secretive organization that have been focused on keeping the knowledge of the drow as secret as possible. Those of you focused on researching drow have probably run into the Lantern Bearers before - and not on their good side, since they see the drow problem as elf business that should stay elf business. Dvalin has probably had less-than-great experiences with them, to be perfectly honest.
Elven exodus is similarly shrouded, and is mostly the field of arcane scholars. This is deep background that doesn't come into play much.
Book 4, Endless Night, is the big reveal of how drow society itself functions in Golarion. You essentially know nothing about how drow organize themselves. Those who had been devoted to studying them likely know that they're divided into houses that worship demon lords, but that's about the extent.
Those of you focused on researching drow have probably run into the Lantern Bearers before - and not on their good side, since they see the drow problem as elf business that should stay elf business. Dvalin has probably had less-than-great experiences with them, to be perfectly honest.
Aye, just look at this, we're like the expendable group of non-elves sent off to suicide missions of a "great if they win, but we don't expect them to"-nature :)
And that after my years of devoted service!Just kidding, full acknowledgement, thanks for letting us know. I'll err on the side of caution and assume Dvalin knows as little as possible/necessary...if you feel I should know something, you can still correct me. Better than the other way round ;)
We're minutes from the tower? Oops, no wonder Evianna's mad at me :P
I figured Richard would know about the drow thanks to his skillset but he wouldn't know a lot about their culture or motives. Whatever a +9 on Knowledge(Local) would tell him.
Sounds like we don't even have time to scout the tower if it's within minutes. I'll keep Sherix at arm's length for now, then.
Hehe, I was wondering about your shopping :) I figured you'd wanted to do retroactive shopping(as in, add the wand to your starting equipment having left some funds open depending on coordination with party) and found the wording interesting, I didn't realize you really meant to go shopping. ^_^
The intel was here, in the last sentence...I sure hope we are close, otherwise we may as well not bother *winks*
Whoops! I blame PbP time dilation. The GM posts "you have minutes to spare!" and you don't reply for 2 days.
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Retroactive shopping is fine with me generally, esp since I move things on pretty quickly. It's easy for things to stall in PbPs. Typically, I will bot PCs or move plot on after 24 hours. I have a bot alias (Railroad Maintenance Service) for just those purposes.
If you want to leave botting instructions in your profile, that would be helpful!
Speaking of which, when I get home tonight, I'm going to move everyone to the actual encounter!
Just look for the "Bot me!" spoiler in my profile. Sherix also has a "Bot me!" spoiler.
Aye, I think he meant us others :) At time of posting, it's lacking from me at least - I'll throw one up soon, but it won't be very complicated, just the basics - (as I don't expect in-depth tactics from autopilot, and while it would be fun to try and throw up a script in a programming language that does not get me killed every other encounter, I trust common sense of party/GM to do a better job) ^_^
(come to think of it, I hereby authorize Richard to decide my actions if I have a planned absence without internet...@Richard: Same problem approach as Scarlet, only dwarfier(so Dwarven Hatred Style replaces Bloodrage))
Get well soon!
Better you spend more time resting and get healthy again sooner than forcing yourself to update and staying sick longer due to lack of rest ;) Take your time to get better!
Definitely take your time recovering first. Sherix is just taking her time inspecting the Drow encampment.
Sorry to hear it Slothsy. Definitely get well before pushing yourself. We'll wait. :)
Don't worry about us, rest up first and feel better! :)
Take your time. :)
FYI guys I probably can't post on Saturday, and not on Sunday until late.
Thanks for the notice! I'll be working Saturday night myself so I may or may not have a chance to post depending on how busy it is.
-Posted with Wayfinder
:)
Hope you're feeling better, GM!
FYI guys I know my posts have slowed down a bit lately. Not here necessarily, but in general.
Here's what's going on.
Right now we have a staffing shortage at my workplace, and I have been pulling extra shifts. This has left me pretty tired and worn out. I also expect to be training some new hires soon (though I'm not sure when), and since I do most of my posts from work it is unlikely I will be able to post much on those days, but we don't have a schedule for that person yet, so I don't yet know which days I am doing that, and I may not end up knowing until I arrive for my shift. So since I may not have any warning I'm letting you guys know now. The training will probably be spread over three days.
After that I am leaving for a much needed Vacation on September 30th. I expect to have internet access, so I should be able to post in that period, though it may be a bit irregular.
Sorry for any problems this might cause, and if I don't respond in a reasonable time bot me as needed. Things should be back to normal for me in mid-October.
My wife and I will be on vacation from Saturday to Tuesday. I have no idea if we'll have an internet connection.
I've left botting instructions in my character profile.
Have fun, Richard!
And hang in there Yazan; we've been short-staffed at my job too and it really does play havoc with your schedule and your sleeping habits.
Is everything OK Slothsy?
*Eyes shift to the right and then to the left....*
*holds thumb hoping GM is fine*
Yes, I do hope the GM is doing alright. Gameday is pretty busy for me right now so I'm not in any rush.
Ditto, hope everything is okay GM!
Yes, I do hope the GM is doing alright. Gameday is pretty busy for me right now so I'm not in any rush.
Ditto.
No rush here but I hope everything is okay.
While we wait is anyone interested in a Tier 1-5 (high tier so character levels 4-5 or a solid 3) PFS game of Hall of the Flesh Eaters. Are pirates, booty, jungles, booty, ancient dungeon complexes, did I mention booty, and necromancy your thing? Then it is a pirates life for you! I'm hijacking (like a pirate, see what I did there?) an scuttled Game Day thread (2 really), and I need at least 2 players to fill some seats. Start time is tomorrow.
Thanks for the invite Orthrus! I'll pass though, I'm more interested in the long game.
I'm no longer waiting. It's been a month since last contact, which wasn't much at that. No notice, no information.
I'm going to hunt down another AP for dear Aishe. I wish you all the best of luck!
Same here; I appreciate the invite but I've already got enough on my plate at the moment as it is.
And like Aishe, I think I'm out. I really do hope Slothsy is okay but between losing some interest due to the length of this break and already having a lot on my PbP plate, I'm going to just go ahead and cut this game loose. It's been fun playing with you Aishe and Orthrus and I'm sorry to the newcomers that things haven't gone anywhere. Hopefully we'll meet again in other games, though! Until then, I wish everyone good gaming :)
I don't do a lot of PFS and I don't have any characters that could really cut it there. Most of My PFS guys are level 1. I have one level 3 guy who is a fighter 2/ rogue 1 - I was trying to build a slayer before there were slayers. He didn't really work that well.
If you're desperate I could play a pregen though.
Is this for a PbP game?
Yep. There should be a link above.
I've done that quest in PFS already, sadly.
I hope GM Slothsy is doing okay, at least.
Aye, it's a pity it didn't work out, but I hope Slothsy will be ok, and you guys find new games. It was only a brief time we met here, but it was amusing. Good luck for the future.