I don't mind the delay, everything that has happened so far has been interesting to follow. Of course, I too prefer to get things moving again as soon as possible.
By the way: is no one voting for the loot sheet? If so, I'd like to withdraw my sheet. The adventure log and sprites have me busy anyway.
Oh, sorry. I completely forgot about that. Yes, that sounds like good division of labor. I love the log, by the way! :)
That depends on what RichD has in store for us. There could be more to the encounter after Thesing or an entirely new encounter that is justified by the GM. I do know that the group that went to Tal's house is on the way to the hideout to meet up with the group. What time that actually happens though is not my call I feel, its RichD's call.
I assume we are waiting for the GM to move things foward. Naberius is awake and will attend whatever discussion is to be had.
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That depends on what RichD has in store for us. There could be more to the encounter after Thesing or an entirely new encounter that is justified by the GM. I do know that the group that went to Tal's house is on the way to the hideout to meet up with the group. What time that actually happens though is not my call I feel, its RichD's call.
Quite so.
I believe it would help, however, to at least have us declare our intentions. If only to let our DM take them to account before he advances the story.Edit: Just noticed that Tal's sprite lacked a cape. Fix'd.
Yeah weze all heading back to the sekrit hideout.
Everyone is doing a great job in roleplaying so far. I have no idea how this will end up.
I wonder how Arael is seeing this: Entertained, troubled, or interested?
I'm sure Arael is delighted that the people they handpicked for their covert operations are bickering amongst themselves. :D
Haha, it's great. I love this part of Pathfinder. I play in a lot of other games on here and other forums and the games where people consistently post one line and just want to fight in combat get old quickly.
Well, this got complicated. It was not my intention to cause such division, but I saw no way Naberius would agree to Tal's intentions without some sort of compromise. OOC, I have nothing against Lily joining the rebellion. Naberius is being paranoid, that is all. He would need some time to adjust to new people, to make sure they can be trusted. To him, Tal is being entirely unreasonable.
Please tell me if Naberius is being too much of a jerk! That is sort of his thing, but I don't want to be disruptive.
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What are you talking about? This is beautiful character development! I loved every moment of this.
Relax, Naberius: you are not (at least to my eyes) a jerk. Most of the people present were against involving Lily (from Arael/Janiven to Mera), at least for the time being.
Look at the bright side.
We can get this ball going on regardless. Maybe the GM can give Tal a solo quest (spoilered or otherwise, though I would recommend it be private) that gives the man a chance at seeing the group operate from the outside. That is GREAT for building perspective in-character. Would Tal be disgusted at us? Would he bite down his pride and return to help? What attiude will he have it he recognizes Raveen alongside Mera and realizes that there is a plan he is excluded from? Leaving the Children does not mean not noticing them in the next few weeks.
Especially since neither Naberius nor Raveen met Lily. Meeting her in a later scene might do wonders in developing this sub plot further.
Well, it's always good to make sure. I've learned that people are not always on the same page about these things, and I imagine it is even more so in PbP. It's hard enough to read people face to face!
At 1st level, you can attempt to gain control over a summoned creature by disrupting the bond between it and the caster who summoned it. You must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) equal to 10 + the summoning caster’s level. If you know the summoned creature’s name, you receive a +2 circumstance bonus on the check. If the check is successful, you can control the summoned creature as if you had summoned it for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum 1 round). This does not increase the duration of the original summoning. The original summoning caster can attempt to regain control of the summoned creature as a standard action by making a caster level check against your caster level + 10. When your control ends, the creature reverts to the control of its summoner.
Hmm that is a good question though. *scratches head*
My opposition is mainly based on key wording within the text. It says:
You must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) equal to 10 + the summoning caster’s level.
Summoning caster's level, implying the level of the spell used to summon the creature, rather than Summoner caster's level, which is what Tuesday would be summoned by.
I browsed through the forums but found no official answer, or anything resembling a consensus on the matter. I was going by the following in the spiritualist's class description: "Fully manifested phantoms are treated as summoned creatures from the Ethereal Plane." There is something similar in the description for eidolons. The assume control ability says nothing of spells, and in fact it seems to be deliberately worded so that it doesn't. It merely states that it works on "summoned creatures," not 'creatures summoned by a summon monster spell or a similar effect.'
I read "the summoning caster’s level" as 'the caster level of the character who summoned the creature,' rather than 'the caster level of the character who cast the spell.' Caster level checks is not really exclusively tied to spells, since its used for some class abilities (like this one) and in the use of certain magical items. It might just be that my English is failing me, but I think there is some room for interpretation.
I don't think that whoever designed the archetype I'm using thought there might be a conflict with summoners and eidolons, since they came out at about the same time in different publications. Of course, if every wizard had this archetype, it would be pretty bad for summoners and spiritualists. Then again, I don't see many people using it. This is not likely to be too critical of a ruling, but it would be interesting to hear the other's opinions on the matter...
This is going to get interesting quick.
*Munches popcorn now that Tal is out of the room with nothing to really do.*
I read "the summoning caster’s level" as 'the caster level of the caharacter who summoned the creature,' rather than 'the caster level of the character who cast the spell.' Caster level checks is not really exclusively tied to spells, since its used for some class abilities (like this one) and in the use of certain magical items. It might just be that my English is failing me, but I think there is some room for interpretation.
Point, I guess in which case the DC would be 12. (And your English is fine :3).
But there's also the fact that the Phantom, who has free will, isn't under the Spiritualist's control either whereas other summoned creatures, being basically copies, serve their orders unquestioningly. Basically taking control of an uncontrolled creature to begin with vs taking control of a controlled creature from someone else who was controlling it.
I don't think the extent of control a spiritualist has over their phantom is really detailed in the description. The same goes for summoners and eidolons. Phantoms are certainly described as being emotionally unstable, but the spiritualist is still the one who decides when to summon it, and in which form. The matter of free will is more of a roleplaying aspect than a rules question, I think.
Assuming that assume control would work, I think Naberius might at least be able to force Tuesday back into Monday's conciousness? Then again, if that is the spiritualist's choice and the phantom has no control over the manifestation, gaining control over the phantom would do nothing...
Yeah while that does seem more of a roleplaying aspect the manifesting is purely up to Spiritualist (Monday), the Phantom (Tuesday) has no control over the process and cannot choose to unmanifest.
Just got done reading the abilities for myself so I thought I would throw in my 2cp.]
I would allow 'assume control' to work but within limits. I don't think you could send it back into the spiritualist's consciousness nor would I think that obviously harmful acts would be allowed either. These acts, such as move greater than 100ft away from the spiritualist and thus being sent to the ethereal plane, fall under the same clause as the dominate spell. You could have it move 100ft away to make Monday take a full round action to keep it here and thus tie up both of them for the time being but that might cause more harm than good as Monday could bring him back in 2 rounds and repeat till you are out of 'assume control' uses.
Either way still very interesting to watch to see what happens.
For comparison, I looked into control summoned creature. It seems to suffer from the same confusion as the class ability, so no help there... Another spell to consider is summon eidolon, which can be used to summon an eidolon in addition to the normal summoning ritual used by summoners. People seem to agree that assume control would work for that at least. Is there an equivalent spell for the spiritualist?
I suppose it could be houseruled, as Tal suggests. It could be argued that the ability confers a measure of control over the creature, even if it is originally free-willed. Dominate has some good limitations. I'm not sure if that will be necessary, however. Naberius would love to have something to defend himself against ghost hugs, but it's hardly essential. :P
Not at the moment sadly :(
But if it were then yes I would agree AC would work just like if used on something from Summon Monster if it was used instead of the normal methods.
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Rules:
To an extent, I would rule it by arguing in-universe RAW.
Being based on the Eidolon, it suffers under other effects that interact with summons such as banishment and dismissal.
Under the 'Acts as a summoned creature' specification, I'd say it could work, since they share the type of magic school, general description (drawing a creature from another plane), and purpose in combat and class design.
For all mechanical interactions, I'd say that on a successful check by Naberius, he acts as the Spiritualist (in respect to control, range limitations, etc.) until the end of the allotted time.
With regards to sending it away is where the real issue appears, since that could be the most advisable course (regarding Naberius's attitude towards Tuesday):
One can argue (roleplaying-wise with mechanical implications) that taking control of the link between Monday and Tuesday also allows for access along the lines to the Ethereal Plane, allowing him to send Tuesday away himself as if he were the summoner (a standard action; either by acting as a spiritualist or acting as a summoner dismissing his creature), or as if Tuesday reached the specified amount of negative hit points to be sent away.
It would certainly be within the scope of a conjurer to dismiss an eidolon/phantom, since 'controlling' a summoned creature also confers the capability to dismiss it as well.
Yikes. That's a lot of power.
For balancing, I'd say that the psychic link between an summoner/spiritualist and their eidolon/phantom allows for either the creature or the character to use their Will saves (when referring to the spell), or deny the Infernal Binder the +2 for knowing the creature's name (when referring to the ability).
Otherwise, it might be OK to take a leaf from 5E's book and make an opposed Will save as a standard action/round, though that is a houserule.
Mera? RichD?
Roleplay (where it gets interesting:
Taking it roleplaying-wise, I'd say there is a valuable opportunity to roleplay:
What if Naberius took control of Tuesday from his sister (or at least he took the link)?
What does Monday hear from her brother that no one else can? What will Tuesday do if he is ripped from his sister (his only remaining bond to the mortal plane) by conjuration magic? How would Naberius feel about maintaining a link to a creature in the Ethereal Plane that it can feel directly?
It's fascinating.
One can argue (roleplaying-wise with mechanical implications) that taking control of the link between Monday and Tuesday also allows for access along the lines to the Ethereal Plane, allowing him to send Tuesday away himself as if he were the summoner (a standard action; either by acting as a spiritualist or acting as a summoner dismissing his creature), or as if Tuesday reached the specified amount of negative hit points to be sent away.
Except no since not even the Spiritualist can send the Phantom to the Ethereal Plane, when they "dismiss" them they return to the Spiritualist's conscience. The only way the Phantom goes to the Ethereal is if they are reduced to negative hit points equal to their constitution, that or cast the spells Banishmenf or Dismissal on them.
Having the Binder be treated as the Summoner/Spiritualist in regards to what abilities and connections they have to the Summon frankly goes way beyond the scope of that abilities power. He wouldn't be able to dismiss Tuesday into his own head or Monday's since that is an ability of the Spiriualist, not the Phantom.
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One can argue (roleplaying-wise with mechanical implications) that taking control of the link between Monday and Tuesday also allows for access along the lines to the Ethereal Plane, allowing him to send Tuesday away himself as if he were the summoner (a standard action; either by acting as a spiritualist or acting as a summoner dismissing his creature), or as if Tuesday reached the specified amount of negative hit points to be sent away.Except no since not even the Spiritualist can send the Phantom to the Ethereal Plane, when they "dismiss" them they return to the Spiritualist's conscience. The only way the Phantom goes to the Ethereal is if they are reduced to negative hit points equal to their constitution, that or cast the spells Banishmenf or Dismissal on them.
Having the Binder be treated as the Summoner/Spiritualist in regards to what abilities and connections they have to the Summon frankly goes way beyond the scope of that abilities power. He wouldn't be able to dismiss Tuesday into his own head or Monday's since that is an ability of the Spiriualist, not the Phantom.
Perhaps not into his head (since he does not share the psychic link), but if we treat it as dismissing an active summon, returning him to the Ethereal is the only real rules precedent we have, since all summons return to their plane of origin.
Of course, all this falls under the GM's adjudication, since he controls the cosmology and how conjuration interacts with the spirit-stuff we're discussing.
One can argue (roleplaying-wise with mechanical implications) that taking control of the link between Monday and Tuesday also allows for access along the lines to the Ethereal Plane, allowing him to send Tuesday away himself as if he were the summoner (a standard action; either by acting as a spiritualist or acting as a summoner dismissing his creature), or as if Tuesday reached the specified amount of negative hit points to be sent away.Except no since not even the Spiritualist can send the Phantom to the Ethereal Plane, when they "dismiss" them they return to the Spiritualist's conscience. The only way the Phantom goes to the Ethereal is if they are reduced to negative hit points equal to their constitution, that or cast the spells Banishmenf or Dismissal on them.
Having the Binder be treated as the Summoner/Spiritualist in regards to what abilities and connections they have to the Summon frankly goes way beyond the scope of that abilities power. He wouldn't be able to dismiss Tuesday into his own head or Monday's since that is an ability of the Spiriualist, not the Phantom.
Perhaps not into his head (since he does not share the psychic link), but if we treat it as dismissing an active summon, returning him to the Ethereal is the only real rules precedent we have, since all summons return to their plane of origin.
Of course, all this falls under the GM's adjudication, since he controls the cosmology and how conjuration interacts with the spirit-stuff we're discussing.
Sorry, let me rephrase, Nabe wouldn't be able to dismiss Tuesday because Phantoms can NOT be dismissed. The closest they can get to dismissal is being withdrawn into the Spiritualist.
Yeah, phantoms can't be dismissed at will, even by the spiritualist. My original idea was just to tell Tuesday to leave the room, possibly moving past the point where he would be effectively dismissed (100 ft.) before Monday could restablish the connection. I think he would have to return to her consciousness before that, too, after a certain distance. Since Monday wouldn't have enough actions to both concentrate on the link (full-round action) and gain back the control lost to Naberius (a standard action), she would be screwed after Naberius' initial success.
If it does work, the power is excessively powerful against summoners and spiritualists. I am lead to believe it probably shouldn't work, just because it seems obvious that it was not intended to break the game in such a manner. Otherwise the power is pretty situational, though... I'm not even sure if I'll get to use it at all. I wonder if it would work against an outsider's summon spell-like ability...
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@Monday:
Perhaps. There are precedents and references to draw upon in either case. It's up to the DM at the end.
@Reading:
Well, it's always good to make sure. I've learned that people are not always on the same page about these things, and I imagine it is even more so in PbP. It's hard enough to read people face to face!
Heh. It's a trained skill.
But you can get a reading through posts, however. Selective posting, dismissal, or purposeful sabotage (as well as all passive-aggressive traits) can give a hint. However, I'll admit it is indeed difficult: each person tries to read as if the other mirrors themselves.The most important thing is to maintain the player-character split. That's also difficult, since all characters have a shard of their creator in them.
Remembering that this is a game and we're all friends outside of it helps.
As does talking about it and asking for reaffirmation. I spoke for myself in my answer, but I can't speak for anyone else. As always, everyone is encouraged to discuss these issues before they get worse.
@Events:
Well! I'd say that was a very nice scene. Uncommon in a roleplaying game, but not too surprising, however--it seemed like there would be an eventual clash of personalities/perspectives in the end, and one faction had to bend or break.
I've learned a lot about everyone's character. Surprisingly, I was interested at how I've been handling Raveen: His polite exterior slowly melted to coldly challenge Tal's ultimatum. He seemed austere, a bit unfeeling, but consistent and reasonable to a point. Tal's post about 'Perhaps not even you know who you are' actually resonates masterfully with his backstory and how he's been acting. I didn't know what Raveen would say until I began writing. That's a great sign!
We had our inter-party tension end with a farewell, and each member of the party had their say before moving on. Tal's departure is like a wound that would become a scar. Very powerful.
Congratulations and salutations all around.
If I was disappointed from one thing, it'll be that I didn't get to hear Lily's input.
Not in-character, of course: Raveen isn't there and didn't meet her. I meant her interacting with Tal on the way home (I presume), or what have you.
Edit: Didn't notice your post there, Naberius.
Though not intended for PvP (clearly), I myself am curious on the DM's ruling.
I don't foresee to see Summoners or rival Spiritualists in the AP, so it may be only used against Called and Summoned creatures. Let's hope there is a lot of them in there.
Yeah, phantoms can't be dismissed at will, even by the spiritualist. My original idea was just to tell Tuesday to leave the room, possibly moving past the point where he would be effectively dismissed (100 ft.) before Monday could restablish the connection. I think he would have to return to her consciousness before that, too, after a certain distance. Since Monday wouldn't have enough actions to both concentrate on the link (full-round action) and gain back the control lost to Naberius (a standard action), she would be screwed after Naberius' initial success.
True (and scary) but I don't think Tuesday can make at least 50ft in a full round in a closed room :3
Dang! You all are making work hard for my DM pay this weekend!
I will re-read the arguments about the spiritualist and then make a ruling, but right now, I am leaning towards a will save for Tuesday.
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Before Raveen replies and Tal enters, I wish to get something clear that he may have misunderstood:
Raveen said 'shed blood' together: as in they all shed their own blood fighting together for westcrown--and they are now comrades. As a Fighter, concerning the language of the AP, the term is commonly used.
Gently taking Naberius by the arm and tugging him back toward the seat she looks up at him through tired eyes. "It's okay, please, sit back down."
As he finally sits down Monday promptly seats herself sideways in his lap, laying her head against his chest.
Well, that insinuation flew right over my head. I wasn't expecting her to actually do that. I suppose he will just sit there in awkward silence, freaking out internally. :D
Hehehe
Sorry, it has been a busy weekend and a busy Monday, but I think we are getting a resolution that everyone can agree to and then I'll throw you to the Bastards! :)
I know I still owe a ruling to the summoning question.
Sorry, it has been a busy weekend and a busy Monday,
Yes, yes I haz.
btw I will be gone Friday night but I will get responses up during the day hopefully.
Okies, thanks for the heads up :3
I'm not so sure it was. I think I recall everyone closing the door (or letting it close) when they left. At least I see no mention of anyone leaving it open at any point.
Oh, I'm sure--I was paying attention. Check this out.
She hears Mera ask for some food and as she opens the door.
.
--pointing at the bottle he outside the room through the open door.
He fairly skips out of the room.
Janiven enters the room with Tal and is surprised to see Monday nuzzling Naberius.
I conclude by our collective entries that the door was open when Janiven left, and she did not close it behind her. Mera did close the door behind her--which is why Raveen was asking her.
My character eavesdropped, and since Tal set the chairs outside the door when Janiven spoke--it must have not been more than 30 ft. away.
Just playing the devil's advocate here. I think you might be reading too much into actions not directly stated. For example, who's to say Morosimo even used the door? Maybe he skipped out of the window, since he never specified. The act of entering or exiting a room requires the door to be open, so no one would assume the person simply phases through even if they don't mention opening it. The others were obviously trying to keep the conversation private, so I would assume they were taking the necessary precautions. At the very least, I think Tal might want to rethink his actions if he was not aware the door was open when declaring violent intent.
Just playing the devil's advocate here. I think you might be reading too much into actions not directly stated. For example, who's to say Morosimo even used the door? Maybe he skipped out of the window, since he never specified. The act of entering or existing a room requires the door to be open, so no one would assume the person simply phases through even if they don't mention opening it. The others were obviously trying to keep the conversation private, so I would assume they were taking the necessary precautions. At the very least, I think Tal might want to rethink his actions if he was not aware the door was open when declaring violent intent.
I don't see how we can get through that with Mera seeing what was outside the room and interacting with it (bottle of wine).
Even so--Tal, ironically, is abrasive enough to say it out loud. Really, even if he didn't admit it now, would this faux pas stay a secret from the de facto spymaster of the group for long? Let's get this scene over with and get on with the plot.At any rate, even if I was wrong, it's a DC 7 with closed door without counting distance. DC 2 with open door without counting distance. With my 14 (or 16 if counting Guile), which is an above-average roll.
[Off topic]
Now that I think of it--that concern is big one. The DC is too low for any potential eavesdroppers.
But that will be amended in due time. I'm studying a shift in bases to a better locale.
I don't see how we can get through that with Mera seeing what was outside the room and interacting with it (bottle of wine).
People's perceptions of a scene might be very different. I imagined the door would be closed, while you and Mera imagined it to be open. Neither has been explictly stated in a post, so whose perception is the correct one? It's really not a big deal most of the time (sometimes such assumptions are necessary to keep the action rolling), but I found it more than a bit confusing in this instance.
Even so--Tal, ironically, is abrasive enough to say it out loud. Really, even if he didn't admit it now, would this faux pas stay a secret from the de facto spymaster of the group for long? Let's get this scene over with and get on with the plot.
Tal has final say in that, of course. I don't know how he perceived the situation, but I assume he wasn't intending Raveen to hear that right now. If he wants to keep it from Raveen, he deserves a fair chance at doing so. If not, I suppose there is no problem. I've nothing against playing this out right now, but we should make sure everyone is on the same page before proceeding.
At any rate, even if I was wrong, it's a DC 7 with closed door without counting distance. DC 2 with open door without counting distance. With my 14 (or 16 if counting Guile), which is an above-average roll.
While making such assumptions saves time, I think the GM should adjudicate DCs. As players, we can't be sure of details such as distances (we don't know how much room there is in the temple, or how far Janiven took Lily), or how much ambient noise there is from different discussions and other activities around the temple, etc. How loud were they speaking? Hearing a whispered conversation is considerably harder than normal.
Again, nothing against doing this right now. I'm just not as comfortable making such assumptions as you are, I guess.
Holding off responding as I am going to wait for RichD to confirm that you did overhear anything. We don't know the size of the shrine although I am guessing it is small. There could be penalties for distraction from talking to Mera. I know you closed the door once so I assumed it was closed. Once it is determined if you did succeed or not then I will answer. :)
Even though I didn't specifically say it, Janiven would have closed the door behind her. Janiven would have noticed how important it was to Raveen to have the door closed when they were first in the room with 'Anna'. She would have closed the door after seeing the paranoia that just occured, and she would have closed the door because she would not want the others to hear about any plans for the Bastards in case they volunteer like Morosimo and she knows they are not ready. She would have whispered her conversation to Lily to keep Tal from hearing and to keep the others from hearing especially when she asks Lily to 'guide' them. She does not want to stunt the other's enthusiasm and knows Lily could take on a mentoring role more naturally so to the others it does not seem like a task.
Therefore the DC per the PRD would be:
Perception to Hear Whispered Conversation: 15
Through A Closed Door: +5
Lily & Janiven are about 40ft away: +4 (+1 per 10 Ft)
Unfavorable Conditions: +2
TOTAL DC to hear Lily & Janiven's conversation: 26
I do not think Janiven and Tal would have whispered (Tal correct me if I am wrong) and they would have been closer to the door:
Through A Closed Door: +5
Tal & Janiven are about 20ft away: +2 (+1 per 10 Ft)
Unfavorable Conditions: +2
TOTAL DC to hear Tal & Janiven's conversation: 9
TOTAL DC if Tal whispered the threat: 24
Tal did whisper to Janiven as he stated here. The intent was more for Lily to not hear about him knocking out Raveen instead of Raveen hearing but it still would apply.
Ok. First let me say that I love how you are all great at role-playing your characters. Second, I like the dynamic that this group brings to the virtual table.
Having said that, it seems we are dangerously reaching the point of no return and I wanted to take this out of Gameplay to see if we can reach a resolution. It seems we are quickly getting into a 'forest through the trees' situation. I have plenty of BBEG's for you all to fight without you fighting each other. Therefore I would want to ask OOC what does everyone want/need to happen so their character can put this to rest. I am not looking for a 'sitting-around-singing-kumbaya' solution here. If your characters don't like each other or trust each other and you want to mutually roleplay that, fine, but I do not think it should put the brakes on the AP.
I don't want this to sound like Tal won earlier but since Lily is able to hear what is going on in the meetings Tal is content to let things go from before. What was said was in the 'heat of the moment' to Janiven and Mera and Tal has not acted out yet and won't from his promise to Lily and in the hope to get the ap rolling.
I don't think Raveen and Tal will ever be 'friends' as they are just too polar opposite of each other but perhaps the best scenario IC is to disband the meeting for the night. Let both groups relax and cool off then start fresh n the morning. After a rest both are ready to proceed more amicably and the issues are resolved.
How to answer the threat of Raveen vs Tal leaving IC though should come from someone other than the affected parties. Janiven and Mera mentioned calling it a night each once already so it could be as simple as agreeing to their statements.
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Regarding the AP, I am not done with this campaign--not at all. My PMs regarding establishing alternate identities and escape routes from the city for the party remains, so does the strike force, the posters, and the plan to escalate against House Thrune.
The point of no return, however, was the moment Tal's character threatened Raveen with murder/beating. I don't see how the group dynamic can be back together. That just isn't cool, and it poisons the integrity of the party. It was bad enough when he said that he won't stand with Naberius against a Hellknight.
In-character, Raveen is entirely truthful when he said that it really is he or Tal. Threatening spilling blood is a big commitment, and it can't go any better from there.
Edit:
Alright, Naberius posted! That's all of us. Let's get down to business.
To sum up: Tal and Raveen are having their big moment in the house, and the two are citing irreconcilable differences for the divorce. The kids are shocked, and we have a decision to make when they take it to Justice RichD.
So far, both men had their moments of glory and shame, I'd say. We saw what the both were capable of in action, under pressure, and between peers. As the DM said, we're going through tougher times, and unless Janiven has a convenient wand of modify memory in her pocket to erase what occured, we're going to make a decision.
Here are some methods we can go through this.
A: Monday, Mera, and Naberius vote it out: we go through a ruthless process of elimination that leaves everyone unhappy. Of course--neither Raveen nor Tal would vote, so it's best out of two votes.
B: One of the two willingly drops out: Still keeps a bitter taste, but the show moves on.
C: Tal and Raveen stow away their differences and move on: forecast is pretty bleak.
D: DM decides which of the two goes: It's usually a tough call, but the show must go on.
Thoughts, guys?
C: Tal and Raveen stow away their differences and move on: forecast is pretty bleak.
This is the probable outcome. Of course we aren't going to throw anyone out!
To explain my in-character viewpoint: Naberius doesn't feel like picking sides. He understands that the situation with Lily has been resolved, and does not see any reason to keep fanning the flames. He currently thinks Raveen is more important to the group (and his own continued survival) than Tal, and is probably more fond of him on a personal level. However, he is dissapointed in the younger man's conduct, and as a result sees no need to defend him. He feels that Raveen has gotten a bit too self-important, and needs to learn some humility. Yes, I understand this totally hypocritical. Naberius does not. :D
As DM RichD said, the conflict does not have to be solved 100%. As long as we can reach some uneasy agreement, we can get alot more roleplaying out of the tension between the party members. With Naberius remaining neutral, Raveen is not likely to get anyone on his side with his ultimatum, so he is either going to have to suck it up or leave. I would hope Raveen's enthusiasm for the cause outweighs his anger towards Tal, when faced with the possibility of being ousted. I can totally imagine him taking some precautions against Tal, but he has to see that this is a time for a change of tactics concerning his approach to the rest of the group.
Breaking the action for a rest offers a good chance for such reconsideration in character.