Okies :3
I'm a bit confused. Don't normal combat rounds start at the top of the initiative after a surprise round? Raveen and the goblins act in the surprise round, since they are the only ones who are aware of the other. After that the first actual round starts from Monday and Tuesday as normal. Right?
EDIT: Also, we need to start using those sweet sprites ASAP. Whichever way is the most convenient to the GM, of course.
That's kinda what I was thinking.
Hmmm...I was going by Surprise as the last sentence "If no one or everyone is surprised then there is no surprise round"
The goblins did not perceive Raveen and Raveen did not perceive the goblins. Everyone else did not perceive the goblins do to line of sight, therefore everyone is surprised so no surprise round.
Usually in my tabletop game, if the goblins perceived Raveen but Raveen did not see the goblins then the goblins would act in a surprise round but not Raveen or vice-versa had he seen the goblins and them not him.
If it was a more wide-open space and everyone had line of sight, but everyone failed their perception checks except for Raveen and the Goblins, then Raveen and the goblins would act in the surprise round but no one else.
Soooo we're waiting for Raveen to go and then taking from the top?
Surprise depends on awareness, so in this case "surprised" means "not aware of the opponent." I think we might have been able to notice them by sound (since Perception covers all senses), but if you adjudicate that we fail due to the wall, we are "surprised" for the purpose of determining if there is a surprise round.
That's the way I interpret it. I admit I might be totally wrong on this, but a surprise round seems appropriate.
Surprise!
Surprise!
That's my line!
So a bit confused on the Init surprise thing...
Are we all surprised and thus no surprise round which means we start in Init order with Monday/Tuesday or are we waiting for Raveen for some reason?
Just wondering as I am heading to bed soon and wondering if you want my action since Tal is second on the list.
That's the quandary. Sorry if I'm making this more difficult than it needs to be... :P
Monday, Tuesday & Tal would go first but since they don't know there are goblins, there is nothing they can do. Raveen now sees the goblins so he can do something. Mera sees Raveen react to something so she can do something, then Naberius, then the goblins- that would end Round 1. Round 2 then will start with Monday, etc.
Fair enough. I still think there would be a surprise round, since this is exactly the kind of situation it is meant to simulate. Raveen and the goblins would go first, because they become aware of each other before any the unaware majority even has a chance to react. When we do, Monday and Tuesday would be the first ones to do so, based on initiative. That's what their high initiative is supposed to represent, right? They react first. I feel that it would be kind of absurd to disallow them to do so, because at that point the combat has not even technically started yet! Am I making any sense?
But I rest my case. The GM has spoken, let's kill some goblins! :)
I see both of your guys points. My question, to muddle the water, is could those that are not acting in round 1 make a perception check (as a standard action) to hear the goblins and thus get a move action still? If not could Tal delay till after Raveen?
If the GM was really mean he could have said that since we have a light source the goblins would have seen that from afar and they would automatically know that someone was coming. Thanks for being nice DMRichD!!
I guess that's what Raveen was trying to avoid by moving in first with his Low-Light Vision. The goblins might have had some advance warning, but perhaps weren't expecting one of the humans being so far ahead of the others. Not sure how far ahead of us (and the light sources) Raveen wanted to be, exactly.
I just realised this is an all-human party (not counting familiars and other companions). That's a first for me, now that I think of it. :P
I can't remember the last time I've seen that either!
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@Naberius: I second the sprite-using idea--since everyone liked them.
I can split them up if you want to, GM. Actually, I can even give them transparent backgrounds. By the way, I also posted your GM sprite.
The goblins did not perceive Raveen and Raveen did not perceive the goblins. Everyone else did not perceive the goblins do to line of sight, therefore everyone is surprised so no surprise round.
Usually in my tabletop game, if the goblins perceived Raveen but Raveen did not see the goblins then the goblins would act in a surprise round but not Raveen or vice-versa had he seen the goblins and them not him.
Legit. One has to succeed to perceive the other (while remaining unperceived themselves) for a surprise round to activate.
If it was a more wide-open space and everyone had line of sight, but everyone failed their perception checks except for Raveen and the Goblins, then Raveen and the goblins would act in the surprise round but no one else.
Also true--but if everyone has line of sight to another and they are not specifically described as focusing on something else, no one can roll Stealth checks to begin with, and perception checks thus automatically succeed.
I see both of your guys points. My question, to muddle the water, is could those that are not acting in round 1 make a perception check (as a standard action) to hear the goblins and thus get a move action still? If not could Tal delay till after Raveen?
If the GM was really mean he could have said that since we have a light source the goblins would have seen that from afar and they would automatically know that someone was coming. Thanks for being nice DMRichD!!
Regarding light sources--they would be aware that there is light, as the light constitutes as 'being in line of sight without cover or concealment'.
They would still have to roll Perception (to hear) checks, which is muddied by distance. I generally calculate total sound DC as originating from the center of all talking components, which could be a -6 to Perception. Since no one is stealthing, the DC would be 6 to perceive the excessively talkative group.
@GM: I've done an overhaul of the stealth and perception rules--hardness of a material increases the DC to listen; the DC would be about 14 to hear through the wall from C9 to H3, but they would gain -2 to the DC due to the open corner, for a total DC of 12. Since there is a light source, their visual perception is an automatic success to see the light and shadows (but since Janiven and Tal are holding the two, I'd say no shadows are cast except Anna's)--which is why I intended for her to be far away enough to be in dim light, not in normal light which is in about 60' radius. Naberius is correct behind divining the intentions of Raveen's actions.
Anna: "Turn those lights off!"
Legit. One has to succeed to perceive the other (while remaining unperceived themselves) for a surprise round to activate.The goblins did not perceive Raveen and Raveen did not perceive the goblins. Everyone else did not perceive the goblins do to line of sight, therefore everyone is surprised so no surprise round.
Usually in my tabletop game, if the goblins perceived Raveen but Raveen did not see the goblins then the goblins would act in a surprise round but not Raveen or vice-versa had he seen the goblins and them not him.
I think the situation would have been clearer if we actually got Perception rolls to hear them, at some point. As it is, I got the impression that we automatically failed our checks, which is kind of weird to begin with.
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I think the situation would have been clearer if we actually got Perception rolls to hear them, at some point. As it is, I got the impression that we automatically failed our checks, which is kind of weird to begin with.
To be frank, I think we got our chance and flunked. It's usually acceptable for a GM to take 10 on passive perception; which would make the DC for Monday (who has the highest passive modifier) 23; taking 10, she hits a 20.
The Stealth DC was 17 for the goblins. If the GM uses my advice for DC increase, the Perception DC to hear them would be about 17 (their roll) + 6 (modifiers from distance) + 8 (modifier from hardness) - 2 (modifier from open line of effect) for a 29 by my reckoning, or 23 by RAW.
Raveen would ignore the 4 points of DC modifiers from distance for a DC of 19 (which he failed), but since both established line of sight (one by low-light vision, the other by darkvision 60) the goblins and Raveen found each other.
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I would claim we were on our guard, and thus entitled to more than "passive" Perception checks, but we were distracting each other quite a lot, weren't we... :D
After 97 posts in 24 hours I keep thinking this thread is broken now :)
Bah, ish fine :3
Dang combat is slowing up the posts. Need to just kill the goblins to get back to the bantering.
It kills me that Maptools and my dropbox is blocked at work! I hate having to wait until I get home to update everything.
Dang combat is slowing up the posts. Need to just kill the goblins to get back to the bantering.
You mean Monday attempting to kiss parts of you ...
Dang combat is slowing up the posts. Need to just kill the goblins to get back to the bantering.You mean Monday attempting to kiss parts of you ...
Yes...
*wrists*
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Dang combat is slowing up the posts. Need to just kill the goblins to get back to the bantering.You mean Monday attempting to kiss parts of you ...Yes...
*wrists*
In that case bring on the whole army of goblins. Goblins are much safer and easier to deal with than a black haired Vixen trying to kiss me.
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You could switch to Google Docs and that way anyone with access can move people around :)
In that case bring on the whole army of goblins. Goblins are much safer and easier to deal with than a black haired Vixen trying to kiss me.
Ooooohhh, Vixen said he! Your shield is never tall enough to protect you from Monday. Which reminds me...
Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays.
You could switch to Google Docs and that way anyone with access can move people around :)
In that case bring on the whole army of goblins. Goblins are much safer and easier to deal with than a black haired Vixen trying to kiss me.Ooooohhh, Vixen said he! Your shield is never tall enough to protect you from Monday. Which reminds me...
Hehe, I haz a title :3
Sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays.
-_-
Anna still holds action, having nothing to do.
The transformation is complete!
Anna still holds action, having nothing to do.The transformation is complete!
Very funny.
In all seriousness, it's best to keep immersion.
'Stick?' Naberius feels the need to correct the warrior, but he bites his tongue for now. It would not be wise to antagonise the man that could soon be standing between him and the Hellkights. Besides, he would most likely lack the mental capacity to grasp the finer points of dweomercraft...
Very nice Naberius. Just remember that when the meatshield with the door is the only thing between you and the pointed end of a weapon. Your right though, the conversation would be lost on Tal.
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Very nice Naberius. Just remember that when the meatshield with the door is the only thing between you and the pointed end of a weapon. Your right though, the conversation would be lost on Tal.
'Stick?' Naberius feels the need to correct the warrior, but he bites his tongue for now. It would not be wise to antagonise the man that could soon be standing between him and the Hellkights. Besides, he would most likely lack the mental capacity to grasp the finer points of dweomercraft...
Perhaps. Unfortunately, conjurers are less dependent than other practitioners of magic.
Chances are Naberius is thinking 'Perhaps this will do until I get Augmented Summoning'.
Very nice Naberius. Just remember that when the meatshield with the door is the only thing between you and the pointed end of a weapon. Your right though, the conversation would be lost on Tal.
Naberius is perfectly capable of being polite when he needs to. :)
Chances are Naberius is thinking 'Perhaps this will do until I get Augmented Summoning'.
Oh, been there, done that. :P
Something to help out on Bluff checks might be to put whatever the DC it is as a title for the spoiler and then what ever gleamed from a Sense Motive check in the spoiler such as [ spoiler=Sense Motive DC 13]You have the feeling he is holding something back.[ /spoiler] Otherwise you're gonna end up with either a bunch of paranoid players or ones who don't use SM at all lol That and if you specify what the spoilers are instead of labeling them all DM Rolls it makes people less inclined to look under the spoilers that player's shouldn't pay attention to.
@ Monday: Makes sense. I am so used to rolling behind a screen. :)
@ Monday: Makes sense. I am so used to rolling behind a screen. :)
You better not make random meaningless rolls here and there just to freak us out lol
Ahhh! That's where the fun comes from! I like nothing better then to tell my tabletop game to roll perception checks and no matter what the roll, I'll just say, hmmm...Interesting. and that all. You wanna talk about paranoia!
Ahhh! That's where the fun comes from! I like nothing better then to tell my tabletop game to roll perception checks and no matter what the roll, I'll just say, hmmm...Interesting. and that all. You wanna talk about paranoia!
< Does the same, that or You didn't see anything... *evil grin*
That is just cruel and a great idea to use myself.
Hey guys, i have been lurking around this campaign, it has been very fun indeed. And plz post faster, i wanna read ;)
Ditto. :)
Aren't those small-sized? You would probably be better off throwing your daggers.
Yeah, I wouldn't put it past goblins to use inappropriately sized weapons. Just making sure.
"Yeah, she's looking at the third most impressive chest here." Monday adds with a giggle.
Thank you for not letting the chest remark slide by. I wasn't sure who would jump on it first though, you or Mera.
Anytime :3
That straight man that sets up the jokes ^w^
Also:
There is more to her than I first realized but that still does not satisfy my concerns about her.
Which of your concerns would you like her to satisfy?