DM RichD's Council Of Thieves Campaign

Game Master Briccone

Okay, I am not sure what the 'norm' is on this. If potions 1-3 are the same, is there only one perception check to identify with the idea that if you couldn't tell what it was on the first, you couldn't tell on the second and third one? or is it you get a perception taste on all three and if you identify any, then you identify all. I can't seem to find a clear ruling so I figure I will throw it out there. Is there a pathfinder rule regarding this or should we have a 'campaign rule'?

If they all look the same and are in the same bottle I think it'd be safe to say one covers them all, don't know any official rulings though.

A houserule I have is to allow Spellcraft to ID magic items of all types--potions included. I've forgotten it was a houserule. A strict interpretation of the rules count it as a magic item, with a Spellcraft 15 + SL with Detect Magic to identify.

But I would feel it best to go with Mera/Shadowlord's reasoning.

In any case, I feel somewhat justified in my post; perception to identify a potion seems rather strange to me--it's not magically-oriented.

I'd also forgotten that one needs Detect Magic or Identify to ID a wand. My bad.

If they are all the same I houseruled that you do all of the similar ones with a single check. Saves time :)

I agree with Monday that if there are numerous potions that are all the same then 1 check covers them all. I have also played it that every cure light wounds potions was a light pink color so the common potions were easy to tell after a while. Cuts down on the spellcraft checks once the first couple are made.

Tal's concerns about Anna is that she is not telling the truth about her abilities and the hellknights showed up. Any more than that Tal is keeping close to the chest.

@Tal: Well..strictly speaking...

1: To speak the truth--Tal has no idea she is lying. Against all her checks, no one succeeded.
2: True--the Hellknights showed up. So why her specifically? Because she didn't show a clear talent?

Truthfully, any more unwarranted suspicion would reasonably be construed as metagaming--especially since she proved her worth.

I am basing this off of 2 things.

1) Janiven's suspicion of you initially which was compounded by her nod to Tal to keep an eye on you.

2) you said you were just a concerned citizen. Concerned citizens don't toss daggers around at goblins or pick locks.

It just seems that your words have not lived up to your actions.

I'll concur on the first point.

A desperate civilian hounded by Hellknights would throw daggers at anything to get back home, I believe. Picking locks may just be a thing she picked up as an artist.
Good artists copy; great artists steal is how the saying goes.

At any rate, concerned citizens does not equal commoners. She said she has skills--and Janiven acknowledged that.

But if you find it suspicious or think she's lying, you're always free to roll a check.

@Tal:
For the record, I don't mean that you're playing out of character, and I most certainly do not mean to suggest how to play the game for you.

I just meant that it is a nice roleplaying opportunity to reach out for Anna and show another side of Tal (especially since the scenes with his wife are probably not going to be on screen)--especially since she's been doing nothing but reaching out and helping in the first place.

For all intents and purposes, she seems over her head in this whole situation.

I like the idea of one check to identify them all and I like the idea of standard colors. Once you identify them then based on color, the next time you come across it will be an automatic. Not sure why you would use perception (taste) to identify potions instead of spellcraft, but it is under perception so we will keep it a perception check.

To be fair, claiming to be a "just a concerned citizen" sort of infers that one is harmless. Janiven certainly primed Tal to be suspicious of everything Anna does, and and she keeps surprising us with new skills, most of them quite useful for a spy... I don't think its unreasonable for him to be a bit paranoid, considering what is at stake here.

I do understand your frustration. It is true that she has been nothing but helpful, and I'm sure all the characters will come to appreciate it in time... Once the situation is less tense. :)

Thanks Naberius, you made that quite eloquent for me as I was trying to find a response that was not sounding defensive by reding just the words.

I guess the only thing I would add is that Tal has not made a check as of this time since he is just watching and waiting. Down in the sewers running from the authorities is not the place to accost someone for not being direct in their abilities.

I agree as well that once, if ever, the truth comes out Tal would actually be more impressed by Raveen for keeping himself disguised for so long. Once that happens or if Anna comes clean on her abilities then Tal will stop being distrustful and appreciate what she brings to the table.

At this point I have already gotten used to Anna. I think she should stay, it will be weird to have this 'Raveen' guy in the party.

Agreed.

*nods in agreement*

I don't think I've ever had such a prolific game such as this. 5 pages of RP through the first encounter? Yowsers. Ha. And that's not counting however many we had in the other attempt at a start!

Not sure why you would use perception (taste) to identify potions instead of spellcraft, but it is under perception so we will keep it a perception check.

In Raveen's case it would make little difference; both skills have identical modifiers. But at any case, I think we are all perfectly fine with letting houserules patch any discordance in the core rules.

@Players:
As always, Naberius is the voice of reason, and perspective helps us all understand one another better.

@Tal:
I understand. Don't worry about sounding defensive; as long as we all agree to play in-character with a healthy dose of out-of-game cooperation, we'll always reach a satisfying conclusion.
Or at least, with enough satisfaction to get across the internet.

@Mera & Monday:
That is truly the mark of a good actor, isn't it?

But perhaps I have a confession to make: I may have my previous post colored with bad memories.

I always say that perspective and empathy, not necessarily unquestionable acceptance and welcoming is the only real solution to the problems that plague humanity. Perhaps this would give you some perspective as well.

It's an amusing story at any rate--about an underground necromancer being revealed and defeated by the heroes defending the helpless city.

@GM: I didn't notice last time, but you've added the sprites! They look adorable on the map.
Speaking of which, I've also made a few monsters. They're in the Sample Sprites file.
There's only the goblin now and a few orc commoners and Ezren (the iconic), but I'm open for requests regarding incoming monsters.
On second thought, that might spoil the surprise...
Tut, tut...what to do, what to do.

Sample Sprites

I don't think I've ever had such a prolific game such as this. 5 pages of RP through the first encounter? Yowsers. Ha. And that's not counting however many we had in the other attempt at a start!

Here's hoping it will keep going strong! I've had a blast so far. :)

I always say that perspective and empathy, not necessarily unquestionable acceptance and welcoming is the only real solution to the problems that plague humanity. Perhaps this would give you some perspective as well.

I'm sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience! I'm so used to playing with people who "get it," that I do tend to take it for granted. Wise words, I completely agree. Roleplaying games are all about communication and cooperation, as are all social activities. Beginners often fail to realise this, and unfortunately some never learn.

Thankfully, all of us here seem to be on the same wavelength about gaming, and more importantly, willing to discuss these things maturely OOC when problems arise. I'm very glad to get to play with you all! :)

Same!

*hugs Nabe*

I'm sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience! I'm so used to playing with people who "get it," that I do tend to take it for granted. Wise words, I completely agree. Roleplaying games are all about communication and cooperation, as are all social activities. Beginners often fail to realise this, and unfortunately some never learn.

Thankfully, all of us here seem to be on the same wavelength about gaming, and more importantly, willing to discuss these things maturely OOC when problems arise. I'm very glad to get to play with you all! :)

I assure you, I also share this feeling with everyone present as well.

Though there will be no need for hugs.

@GM:
Speaking of physical contact, how are we running leveling up and experience points? Will we get a level at a milestone, or should we calculate EXP for about 3 goblins at average progression?

I've done both--but milestone leveling is easier and more dramatic, while EXP leveling is more consistent and flexible.

I usually don't bother with experience points. I find that they add nothing to the game whatsoever. Really, the whole system only serves to make it more... Well, game-y.

I'm also horrible at math, so there! :P

Anna would relinquish her cut, so to not doom herself to joining this untitled revolution.

Naberius, on the other hand, will do no such thing! He has a certain standard of living to uphold. :)

So that would be 200 gp shared four ways? Mera took the wand, but who takes the potions? Should we come up with a system to track loot?

I usually don't bother with experience points. I find that they add nothing to the game whatsoever. Really, the whole system only serves to make it more... Well, game-y.

I'm also horrible at math, so there! :P

I don't like using them, either. I use my own quest-based progression--but...

So that would be 200 gp shared four ways? Mera took the wand, but who takes the potions? Should we come up with a system to track loot?

We can have a floating table if you are up for abstract storage, or we can melt the gp into a pool and divide it up; those who get liquid currency do not get potions, etc.

1: Divide up on need/greed basis.
2: Liquidate and divide gp
3: Count as floating assets one can draw from (this is quite abstract)

The only games we still count XP in that I play in are the Soceity games. For Campaigns even Paizo recommends you do leveling at specfiic points in the campaign. In the campaigns I lead players come and go, as will likely happen here, and it's much easier to pull people in and out and just level them at the correct places rather than worry about who has how much XP.

For loot, I like the system where you hand out pieces to people that want/can use them and then sell whats left over. That's a combo of #1 & #2.

For loot, I like the system where you hand out pieces to people that want/can use them and then sell whats left over. That's a combo of #1 & #2.

I prefer this system as well, at least in my IRL games. This might cause a slight discrepancy in wealth between characters, but I find that it tends to even out over time.

Should we have a list with all the undivided/unsold loot somewhere where everyone can edit it, or would it be better if one of us volunteered to manage loot? Maybe it's better to just divide things on the spot?

I'm not sure what works best in PbP, so I will defer to those with more experience...

Like Raveen I have had some interesting experiences as well but on the other side of the situation. A player in one of the campaigns I was in used to actively use stealth to spy on the other PC's. he would then pop up during a conversation with other people and interject his opinions before leaving again. It got to the point where there were more PMs than posts to prevent him from interrupting everything.

This in no way reflects my thoughts on Raveen but it does go to show that experiences can alter perceptions when you are not face to face.

------------------------

For loot the system I have seen used that I like is a combination of 1&2. Items found are spread out by the character with the lowest character wealth picking first and moving up the group. Those items not claimed are then liquidated and split evenly among the group. This does require each character to keep a record of claimed gear or at least the running total of the value of the claimed gear for reference. I have spreadsheet I can adapt to make this work if I can find it if people would like.

Disposable items I feel should not count as character wealth unless it makes up a large portion of the loot dispersement. Healing potions and scrolls don't count but that fully charged wand of fireball would. Lesser wands or not fully charged wands wouldn't count either.

#3 is the combo of 1 & 2: If it is floating assets, that means that the items appear in the hands of those who request them at the beginning of their turn. It is assumed that they chose that item beforehand, and have been preparing it as a contingency.

It also makes for intense situations like when one taps into a now- nonexistent resource. Again--it's abstract.

Edit: Didn't notice Tal's post.

@Tal:
That is quite disruptive. What was his agenda?
I can attribute kill-high for my necromancer.

Alright...with this check, Raveen might draw an entirely off conclusion. For now, let's just say that Raveen suspects Naberius has some...less than savory interests.

We got to make a joke out of this. A ghoulfriend? He loves women with brains? She's got a body to die for? They're real--not mine, but real?

The possibilities are endless.

Ugh, reading through my last gameplay post with this in mind makes me regret some of my word choices... :P

Ah, the stiffening, of course.

Don't worry; we can divide up the loot evenly--or would you wish for a greater share of the booty?

*rimshot*

Raveen, the only agenda I could tell was the guy like to write and post. He would put in huge walls of text that were 2-3 pages long it seemed. After the first paragraph I would lose interest and skip tot he bottom. That didn't turn out so well and the campaign actually lasted till 7th level thanks to a saint of a GM who tried holding it together. It got to be too much though for him and he had to stop as he wasn't having any fun anymore.

GM If you're not ok with my inferred knowledge of zombies, let me know and I'll rewrite it.

I'm making some assumptions here, as well. Naberius hasn't actually seen the creatures, but is going off of what he heard from Anna. They might be something else entirely, but that is probably the first thing that would come to mind when hearing of shambling corpses.

As a follow-up question for the GM, do you have a system for what we find out about creatures when identifying them? The one I'm most used to playing with is where you get the basic info (e.g. name, some fluff, creature type and subtypes, and maybe one or two most known attributes from common lore) just by beating the DC of 10 + CR, and one question for every five points you beat the DC by (e.g. DR, resistances and/or immunities, special abilities, etc.).

Mera Wist-Thrune wrote:

GM If you're not ok with my inferred knowledge of zombies, let me know and I'll rewrite it.

I'm making some assumptions here, as well. Naberius hasn't actually seen the creatures, but is going off of what he heard from Anna. They might be something else entirely, but that is probably the first thing that would come to mind when hearing of shambling corpses.

I guess that 'shambling dead people walking aimlessly' and 'somehow animate skeletal system' is pretty descriptive, all things considered.

As a follow-up question for the GM, do you have a system for what we find out about creatures when identifying them? The one I'm most used to playing with is where you get the basic info (e.g. name, some fluff, creature type and subtypes, and maybe one or two most known attributes from common lore) just by beating the DC of 10 + CR, and one question for every five points you beat the DC by (e.g. DR, resistances and/or immunities, special abilities, etc.).

Interesting subsystem you have there.

Interesting subsystem you have there.

Since when were you using it?
I myself have something similar--except that it when you succeed on the knowledge check, you may disable Ex, Su, and SLA for 1 round with a standard action, CMB (Dirty Trick) vs. CMD.

That's the system I learned when I transitioned from D&D 3.5 to Pathfinder about one and a half years ago. It's pretty much how the skill works in both systems as written, but what you actually learn when "identifying" a creature is a bit unclear. It makes sense that you get more tidbits of knowledge the higher you roll, but they don't specify what you get by just meeting the DC. I think the the basic info outlined above is a pretty good baseline.

We have always played it that if you roll low - you know nothing. If your roll is decent, then you know 2 or 3 things about them. If you roll well, then you are a font of information about them.

@ Raveen: If you want to create a sprite for Janiven and Morosimo, feel free. I will have to work my awesome, evil DM sprite in their somehow!

We have always played it that if you roll low - you know nothing. If your roll is decent, then you know 2 or 3 things about them. If you roll well, then you are a font of information about them.

What exactly would count as low, decent, or high? Do you go by the standard increments of five, or do you just wing it? That's pretty much what my group used to do before Pathfinder.

Sorry if I'm asking the obvious, but I reckon that I'll be rolling a lot of Knowledge checks in the future, so it's good to be sure. :P

Usually 1-10 would be low, 11-20 would be mid, 21-30 would be high. If it was over 30 then you would be an expert in that creature and would get all the information about it in the bestiary.

My groups that I play with do the same as Naberius. Basic check that meets th DC get the top stat line detailing what type of creature it is. After that every5 above they get to ask a question to know more.

I use the same system in my games as mentioned above. We tried three of four different combos before setting on this one.

I rolled a 20 and felt safe with my statement that she'd probably have learned or heard that from somewhere prior.

@GM: I missed your post. Can you describe Janiven and Morosimo?

Edit: Or at least the kid. I forgot you posted an image of Janiven.

I'll upload it into the Sample Sprites folder; it's in my profile.

Tuesday Daud wrote:

Been trying to decide on that, he has to end his turn in empty space and the movement costs double, so for the surprise round probably not.

So it can be done? I do hope this combat round goes quickly; the sewers is not the best place to fight.

I think everyone but Tal (and perhaps Tuesday) is delaying now. This shouldn't take too long, as long as Team Undead does not get lucky.

Feel free to speed things up, Mr. GM! Naberius won't get involved unless he has to.

If you all want I can post the next 3 attacks for Tal just to move things along.

That way Mera and Monday can evaluate Tal's abilities and do some more girl talk in the back with Niberius.

We are probably completely underestimating these guys. Watch how we get our asses kicked due to bad dice rolls or something... :D

Yeah, especially when they are the honor guard of the dragonlich coming down the tunnel! :) [DM laughs evilly]

if that is the case then Tal is going to go defensive and let everyone fire past him as he takes cover behind his shield. Naberius I would hope you use your pointy stick as well.

The mental image of a gigantic dracolich awkwardly squeezing its way through these cramped sewer tunnels is pretty entertaining. :D

The skeleton in the back rattles his bones in frustration as he cannot get to the human. The lead zombie is severly cut by Tal and staggers but does not fall. He attempts to slam the human warrior in retailiation...

Attack: 1d20 + 4 ⇒ (9) + 4 = 13

and misses. The second zombie just stares blankly.

Anna takes a sip from Mera's wine.

"This is going to take a while."

@Tal: I second the motion of you rolling several d20s. I'm ok with this fight going on auto-pilot. How bad can it go?

Of course, as any canny reader knows, saying this is a terrible idea.

perhaps the dracolich has multiple young templates? That should still level us all to what 5th?

Hopefully you didn't just jinx me Anna.

perhaps the dracolich has multiple young templates? That should still level us all to what 5th?

Hopefully you didn't just jinx me Anna.

That would be ****ing hilarious.

*looks at map* Pffft, we can't help even if we wanted too, can't curve bolts that much lol

The map hasn't been updated yet, but there should be free space behind Tal now that he has killed the first zombie and stepped foward. W6, I think...?