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With foreknowledge there is very little a wizard cannot deal with, one way or the other.
For starteres, Fluffy has no means to find or travel to Wizards real, physical location.
Fluffy is also not immortal.
My wizard conducts business as normal via Astral Projection, ignoring Fluffy until he dies of old age. He'll show up at Fluffy's memorial service, if he remembers. Perhaps, he'll "investigate" Fluffy's tomb afterwards to recover anything of value that was left behind.
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Seeing that you have no spell resistance, the best option would be to hit you with spells that do not allow for a saving throw. Therefore, winning initiative is important, and then hitting you with the Maze spell. That buys a few turns (with the additional use of timestop) to drop a force cage around where you would reappear, as well as Summoning a few nasties for you to deal with with the Gate spell.
Pathfinder is a team game, though, and probably shouldn’t focus on PvP.
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Do note that Furious Finish specifies you are fatigued even if you would not normally be, so the ioun stone does not render you immune to it. I also don't see where you're getting the immunity to sickened and nauseated from.
As for tactics, well I'll be fair and say the first round would be quickened dazing fireball then dimension door 1100 feet away (total distance now 1200ft). Next round or two would be chucking various flavors of fireball and then realizing that this maniac running at me is basically immune. Finally, give up and teleport to my private island/airship and kick back with a smoothie. Because sometimes the only winning move is not to play.
built using the classic "blockbuster wizard" build
evocation[admixture] school
magical lineage and spell specialization on fireball
greater spell specialization for spontaneous fireballs
spell perfection for extra metamagic
both fireball and dimension door have long range, so at cl20th as the exercise assumes that's 400+(20x40)=1200ft
every dimension door I use means Fluffy has to spend 5 rounds using the run action (60ft fly speed x4 = 240. 1200/240=5) just to catch up
I'm only accounting for one prepared dimension door as 4th level spells have a LOT of goodies to choose from
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I'm not gonna write a full build, but the basic part is Tiefling Wizard, Foresight specialization. We'll assume the wizard wins initiative, due to having a +24 initiative before any items (Improved Initiative, Reactionary, +4 DEX, Greensting Scorpion, Forewarned). Wiz leads with Time Stop to do whatever he wants, in this case, a Prismatic Sphere around Fluffy, Maze, Cloudkill inside the sphere, Haste himself (Quickened via Spell Perfection, if necessary). And that's just off the top of my head. Wiz then casts Greater Invisibility and Fly while Fluffy is stuck in the Maze, ready to wreck his day with Intensified Dazing Fireballs (Sacred Geometry) and other such nasties. Regardless of how high your saves are, a natural 1 is still a failure, so Wiz can likely make something stick eventually, like Baleful Polymorph. Or he can summon an Astral Deva if he feels like it.
The moral of the story: don't screw with wizards. They're the most powerful class in the game for a reason.
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One thing I just realized is that a readied-action gate spell could send Fluffy to any horrible plane of the caster's choice with no save or need for a touch attack.
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Ring of Invisibility + Mindblank. You will literally never find me good sir.
I suppose I could ruin your life. Make everything in the multiverse want you dead, alter the laws of physics to make your abilities worthless, and remove your afterlife. But why would I? There is no threat
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I think you'll appreciate this, considering your previous thread.
Combat Expertise
Improved Feint
Weapon Finesse
Arcane Discovery:
Knowledge is Power (Int to CMB/CMD)
Trait:
Clever Wordplay (Int on Bluff checks)
Bluff total bonus: 37
20 + 12 (Int mod) +5 (Magic Item)
Magic Items:
Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone (Proficiency with Tekko-Kagi)
Tekko-Kagi +3, Dueling, Dueling (PSFG)
Gauntlets of Skilled Maneuvers
Mask of Stony Demeanor
Lesser Metamagic Rod, Quicken
And the typical ability score increase items
Disarm CMB: 43 (45 vs Swords)
10 (BAB) + 12 (Int mod) + 6? (Dex mod) + 2/4 (Tekko-Kagi) +3 (Enhancement bonus) +2 (Dueling) +6 (Dueling (PDSFG) +2 (Gauntlets)
Feint Bonus: 39 (Fluffy's Feint DC is 36)
Spells Prepared:
True Strike
**********************
So Fluffy's CMD is pretty high, especially against good targets. In an optimal situation, I count that to be 91 (since you add the Deific Obedience bonus to CMD).
How about when you've been feinted? Dexterity and Deific Obedience disappears, dropping that CMD down to 65.
Quickened True Strike on a Tekko-Kagi Disarm attempt would give my wizard a +65 CMB to disarm Fluffy. And it doesn't seem as if you're carrying a backup weapon.
So yeah, no character is invulnerable. Although Fluffy would probably dominate in most games, it's very easy to build a counter when you have all the stats.
Etob> prismatic sphere + maze +cloukill sounds brutal. Could you exaplin a bit more about how that interaction works? Are people affected by cloukill while inside the maze? As before, I plan to put boots of teleport on Fluffy to negate some of the means of trapping him. As for saves/invis, as long as he has rage uses left, natural ones and invis shouldn't be an issue thanks to the eater of magic and ultimate clarity (reroll failed saves vs magic and see invis/blur/darkness/ etc) rage powers. Could you talk me through the astral deva? If the idea is to use the stun ability, it's only going to live one round if it closes to engage in melee ;)
Boots of teleport would negate the Prismatic Sphere strategy. The idea with Cloudkill is to set it up so it's there when Fluffy returns from the Maze, it wouldn't affect him while he's in the Maze. Astral Deva was just a random example of a summoned creature, not much thought was put into it. I didn't even think of that readied Gate strategy someone else suggested, not many ways around that. Mage's Disjunction would theoretically deal with the teleport boots (as well as any other magic items Fluffy has), so be prepared for that. You probably want to work a Mantle of Spell Resistance or some such thing into your build, you're incredibly vulnerable to anything that doesn't require a save or attack roll (hence spells like Maze and Prismatic Sphere).
Fairly simple way to come for any high level PC is mages Disjunction
Etob> prismatic sphere + maze +cloukill sounds brutal. Could you exaplin a bit more about how that interaction works? Are people affected by cloukill while inside the maze? As before, I plan to put boots of teleport on Fluffy to negate some of the means of trapping him. As for saves/invis, as long as he has rage uses left, natural ones and invis shouldn't be an issue thanks to the eater of magic and ultimate clarity (reroll failed saves vs magic and see invis/blur/darkness/ etc) rage powers. Could you talk me through the astral deva? If the idea is to use the stun ability, it's only going to live one round if it closes to engage in melee ;)Boots of teleport would negate the Prismatic Sphere strategy. The idea with Cloudkill is to set it up so it's there when Fluffy returns from the Maze, it wouldn't affect him while he's in the Maze. Astral Deva was just a random example of a summoned creature, not much thought was put into it. I didn't even think of that readied Gate strategy someone else suggested, not many ways around that. Mage's Disjunction would theoretically deal with the teleport boots (as well as any other magic items Fluffy has), so be prepared for that. You probably want to work a Mantle of Spell Resistance or some such thing into your build, you're incredibly vulnerable to anything that doesn't require a save or attack roll (hence spells like Maze and Prismatic Sphere).
Building off of this, I'd use a Nalfeshnee. At-will greater dispel magic can take care of problematic magic items. Assuming a permanent arcane sight on the wizard, discerning which Ioun Stone to dispel would also help.
Also, a broader note to the OP: Check out Anzyr's Arkalion for a clue as to what a fully optimized lv 20 wizard can do. It is likely a bit out of date (it is 3 years old or so) but still has some crazy abilities.
Darigaaz > repeated use of furious focus is achieved by combining scarlet and green cabochon and the internal fortitude rage power: fatigued comes in, gets turned into sickened, we are immune to sickened. I'm new to pathfinder, but going by this post (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p0f8?Rage-cycling-in-PFS) it seems to held as acceptable (esp Lab_rat's comments/references to earlier post). To your second point, as above Fluffy can't stop you leaving, but dueling is part of the premise. Lastly, readied-action gate sounds really brutal. Does the spell force the person to be transported without a save? I thought unwilling travellers had to be bull-rushed in or something.
Oh I'm well aware of how rage cycling works. However Furious Focus specifically denies rage-cycling by making you fatigued even if you would not be. The ioun stone makes you sickened instead of fatigued. ie you would not be fatigued because of the stone, but furious focus says you are fatigued anyway.
As for readied-action gate, the portal version of the gate creates a 2d disk that sends anything going into it from one side to the chosen point on the other plane. So the readied action would be something like "I cast gate as Fluffy closes from 10ft away from me to 5ft away from me" (or whatever the edge of Fluffy's reach is). Fluffy's move takes him into the gate, the gate takes him to another plane, then the wizard on his turn ceases concentration on the gate and it closes.
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Melee: +5 Agile and Impact Gargantuan bastard sword
Str 9
can he actually pick up that sword? what about encumbrance?
also agile Requirement: This special ability can be placed only on melee weapons usable with Weapon Finesse.
can you finesse that sword somehow? im missing it
Dastis> fluffy can see invis and mindblank has will save negates and we should pass the save. The wizard can leave the fight, yep, but it's part of the premise that he doesn't.
Mindblank is being cast on the wizard, not Fluffy.
Fluffy does not get a save. See Invisibility simply will not work.
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Flying faster seems the simplest way. Form of the Dragon III and quickened haste gives the wizard a 150' fly speed which gets them out of charge range (or even run range) with a move action. The wizard keeps their distance and keeps trying stuff until something gets thru, likely with a couple of greater dispel magics up first.
Once done the wizard goes home, having saved their 9th level spells for difficult targets.
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Some advice for gear, swap the +5 Agile Impact weapon for a +3 Furious Impact Agile weapon, and swap the Stone of Good Luck for a Lucky Horseshoe and a Four-Leaf Clover. This gives you most of what your previous gear did, but saves you about 39k gold. Swap the Pale Green Ioun Stone for two Cracked Pale Green Ioun Stones (one for saves, another for attacks) and you save another 22k for the price of +1 on ability checks and skill checks. Gives money for the teleport boots and another 14k gold (check to make sure my math is right before you use it, it is too late and I am rounding).
Also look into getting an Obsidian Steed Figurine of Wondrous Power. It has plane shift and etherealness, both of which can help get out of a bind. Plane Shift+Teleport will guarantee you free from a maze (albeit in a couple rounds) and ruthlessness underground can escape some effects that would hold you. Of course this only helps until the wizard kills the horse, but it likely won't be able to kill the horse while damaging you so that might buy you a round. Or at least, spare you from (some of) a quickened magic missile.
Limited Wish->Geas "Go to sleep for 10 minutes"-> Summon monster 9(Astral Deva)-> Coup De Grace-> Make a DC 101 fort save or die, without any bonuses from rage as you are asleep. Also take 3d8+78 damage.
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One wizard build I made a few years ago had a caster level of 24 or better. That means I cast time stop, and gate in several things that can take on an entire level 20 party on their own. Then I just go away, and let you deal with them.
I know I was able to get a few titans and solars to join the party.
Without the smite your AC is not hard for them to hit, and the Solar can just hit you and move away since it's faster than you. If the Solar has time to buff, which it may not, things would be even worse. You also have to avoid any titans killing you. 245 hit points won't last long.
Basically you aren't taking on a 20th level wizard with PC wealth and winning.
As for an NPC wizard I'd maze you, and bring in summon monsters with AoE abilities while you were gone.
There is also quickened true strike and enervation to drop your d20 rolls so other things start to work better.
So with some actual planning he isn't taking on an NPC wizard either. This is just me thinking of things within less than a 5 minute span.
Of course this is Schrodinger's wizard. I'm going to look at a level 20 wizard from an AP to see if what can be done.
The NPC in question has access to all spells from the core book except for enchantment and illusion spells so he is going to win this also.
If I had to kill you?
Planar Binding Greater
Pick your death
Gate Archons- gate, gate, gate, gate, gate, gate, gate, gate, gate, gate, gate..... gate, gate
Caller's Feather->Pit Fiend + Army of hired lv1 commoners with slashing weapons
Timeless Demiplane + Astradaemon + a lot of pigs
He must mean a Mantle of Immortality, not a Mantle of Authority.
Of course in a theorycrafting battle, it's way cheaper to just implant a Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone.
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Short answer: Level 20 Foresight (Divination) wizard. Treats the initiative d20 as a natural 20, and adds half level to it. Heightened Awareness lasts for 200 minutes at this level; with an Extend rod, that's a first level spell that lasts 6+ hours. I would assume that is always up, even with the no-buffs rule. - minimum of 34 on Initiative, which requires the barbarian to roll a nat 20 to tie. And that's with no other bonuses. First turn - Dimension door 1200 ft away, and then take some time to buff/prep/think as it takes Fluffy 10 rounds to catch up.
First of all, Fluffy of course has no way to force the wizard to fight. Wizard 20 is just better than any warrior, no question. Part of the premise here, though, is that it's a duel. The wizard could not show up or run away, but he would then lose competition. I know that ruffles some feathers, because it's contrived, but I'm only interested here in finding out if he could survive straight-forward combat.
So a hubris situation. A reputation thing. Or a "girls are watching! (and I am unable to mind control them)" thing.
Fluffy cannot personally manipulate time, space, and matter... any combination of the two in the same round... the same round that the wizard will always go first.
The wizard is fighting like pride is on the line, like girls are watching. You kissed my sister, I hate you, now fight these demons and angels and fall in a pit and chase me whilst I teleport 1200 feet away. That's what wizards do. Your mage killer doesn't do any of that, even if the girls are watching.
Your mage killer isn't a 20 level wizard specialized in antimagic, so you will never win unless you catch him on the toilet, which you know Divination Wizard...
Maze is an NPC capable spell. You're lost. Whilst you are lost, demons have been summoned to kill you, and the wizard is gone.
Your mage killer is now fighting multiple demons or monsters, none of which are weak at this point.
The wizard could stick around just to watch, drop you in a hungry pit a 100 feet deep at any time.
You didn't build a mage to kill mages, so you can't be expected to go against a Wizard 20 without anything less than a Wizard 20... they get it all in this game. Nobody else does.
He must mean a Mantle of Immortality, not a Mantle of Authority.
Of course in a theorycrafting battle, it's way cheaper to just implant a Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone.
So that's what we target with a dispel and watch as the weight of his own gear prevents him from breathing and he dies?
A 20th level cleric/druid would be about the only thing that could take a 20th level wizard besides another wizard in a theory battle. And even then no one is ever really "getting the drop" on anyone else. It's gonna be what did you prepare today and how can it mess up what I have prepared. Best thing the cleric can do is drop a AMF on the wizard and wade in and beat him up.
An exhausted character moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity.
.
If I lose Initiative, use Emergency Force Sphere and Dimension Door out of there. Buff up with Form of the Dragon III, and fly circles around that poor fellow at 120ft speed until the Barbarian un-rages, then zap him with Ray of Exhaustion, and now he's Exhausted even on a save.
If I win Initiative, I flat-out win. Ray of Exhaustion causes Fatigue even on a save. Round1: I can have my Familiar or Improved Familiar use Wand of RoE and I can RoE in the same round, instantly making him Exhausted even if he saves. He can't rage, fly, charge or run now, and is limited to his 15ft move speed. Round2: I cast Haste on myself, and for added effect, I use my movement action to skip holding hands with my familiar, while I prepare for round 3.
This "mage-killer" only has 9 strength, this is his downfall. Exhaustion is -6 Str, and Ray of Enfeeblement deals 1d6+5 Str dmg, save for half, so minimum3/maximum5 on a save. Either way, even with the minimum strength damage from Ray of Exhaustion, Mage-killer's Strength is now 1. At 1 Str, encumbrance is light 0-3lbs, med 4–6lbs, hvy 7–10lbs and is considered "Morbidly weak, has significant trouble lifting own limbs" http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores/ His weapon alone would probably put him higher than heavy encumbrance.
If I win Initiative, by round 3, I'm down a lvl 3 spell: Haste, a lvl 1 spell: Ray of Exhaustion, 2 wand charges: Ray of Exhaustion and Ray of Enfeeblement. Fluffy can't rage, fly, run, or charge, and he's at 1 Str, and moves at 15ft. I'm skipping around him at 60ft per round.
If I lose Initiative, by whatever round the Barbarian gets bored of chasing me, I'm down a lvl 8 spell: Form of the Dragon III, a lvl 4 spell: Emergency Force Sphere, a lvl 3 spell: Dimension Door, a lvl 1 spell: Ray of Exhaustion, 2 wand charges: Ray of Exhaustion and Ray of Enfeeblement. Fluffy can't rage, fly, run, or charge, and he's at 1 Str, and moves at 15ft. I'm flying at 120ft, and I'm a Dragon.
.
Here's some potential fight-enders:
Killing Blow1: Limited Wish to debuff saves, then Heighten/Persistent Suggestion: "Here, let's drink these two barrels of Feywine together" (and get him slobbering/passed-out drunk - my own barrel would be grape juice), or Suggestion: "Kneel down and admire this flower for 8 hours", then Move Earth over the next 3-4 hours to create a pyramid and bury him alive. +1 Nerd point for style.
Killing Blow2: Limited Wish to debuff saves, then Heighten/Persistent a Blindness spell. Limited Wish to use a Cup of Dust spell and watch Fluffy die of dehydration over the next 4-5 days, where I follow him throughout the desert casting drench cantrips. -1 Nerd point for evilness.
Killing Blow3: Forcecage, then cast an Acid Pit beneath him as the Forcecage ends. He takes 100ft of falling dmg + 2d6 acid dmg every round for 20 rounds, plus the acid destroys all his gear, giving it the broken condition. When he gets out of the pit with all his broken gear, I cast Geas/Quest and Hallucinatory Terrain to send him to kill the Evil Red Dragon in yonder Skull Mountain. I use Form of the Dragon III and wait for him. +1 Nerd Point for an epic death.
Killing Blow4: Limited Wish to debuff Saves, Scroll of True Strike, Empowered Intensified Maximized Disintegration with Spell Spec/Greater Spell Spec/Spell Perfection feats & Magical Lineage/Wayang Spellhunter traits. Instant 450 dmg on hit and a failed save. I cast Gust of Wind to scatter the ashes. -1 Nerd point for lack of style.
Let me introduce you to your opponent.
Take a good look. Compare some of the relevant numbers. Fluffy can't hit Arkalion except on a 20. Even if you hit him you likely won't drop him. Even if you drop him you aren't actually dropping him, you're just killing the Harbinger Daemon he's currently riding around in. Which is actually Astrally Projected. He'll be back in a round or two. Then you get to fight him again. Meanwhile, the Solar Arkalion pals around with is going to be throwing more Solars at you.
Fluffy can't win this. Not even if we gave him a special bonus of Fluffy gets 20s on every d20 roll, forever.
Here's the real knife in the gut about this-
Arkalion is not an Optimized Wizard. He's mostly built to PFS standards, and has chosen to focus on defense. His resources are mostly focused on layers and layers of defenses. He's a generalist with a few cool tricks and a lot of contingencies.
There are wizard builds that can turn Arkalion into a hedgehog and carry him around in a pocket.
An exhausted character moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity.
.
If I lose Initiative, use Emergency Force Sphere and Dimension Door out of there. Buff up with Form of the Dragon III, and fly circles around that poor fellow at 120ft speed until the Barbarian un-rages, then zap him with Ray of Exhaustion, and now he's Exhausted even on a save.
If I win Initiative, I flat-out win. Ray of Exhaustion causes Fatigue even on a save. Round1: I can have my Familiar or Improved Familiar use Wand of RoE and I can RoE in the same round, instantly making him Exhausted even if he saves. He can't rage, fly, charge or run now, and is limited to his 15ft move speed. Round2: I cast Haste on myself, and for added effect, I use my movement action to skip holding hands with my familiar, while I prepare for round 3.
This "mage-killer" only has 9 strength, this is his downfall. Exhaustion is -6 Str, and Ray of Enfeeblement deals 1d6+5 Str dmg, save for half, so minimum3/maximum5 on a save. Either way, even with the minimum strength damage from Ray of Exhaustion, Mage-killer's Strength is now 1. At 1 Str, encumbrance is light 0-3lbs, med 4–6lbs, hvy 7–10lbs and is considered "Morbidly weak, has significant trouble lifting own limbs" http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores/ His weapon alone would probably put him higher than heavy encumbrance.
If I win Initiative, by round 3, I'm down a lvl 3 spell: Haste, a lvl 1 spell: Ray of Exhaustion, 2 wand charges: Ray of Exhaustion and Ray of Enfeeblement. Fluffy can't rage, fly, run, or charge, and he's at 1 Str, and moves at 15ft. I'm skipping around him at 60ft per round.
If I lose Initiative, by whatever round the Barbarian gets bored of chasing me, I'm down a lvl 8 spell: Form of the Dragon III, a lvl 4 spell: Emergency Force Sphere, a lvl 3 spell: Dimension Door, a lvl 1 spell: Ray of Exhaustion, 2 wand charges: Ray of Exhaustion and Ray of Enfeeblement. Fluffy can't...
I missed the Ioun stone that causes fatigue/exhaustion becomes sickened/nauseated. Internal Fortitude only causes you to be immune to sickened/nauseated while Raging. Either way, I'd fly circles around you until you un-rage, then I'd still exhaust you, either with Ray of Exhaustion or Waves of Exhaustion, so now you're nauseated.
"Nauseated:
Creatures with the nauseated condition experience stomach distress. Nauseated creatures are unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention. The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn."
While you're puking and only making a movement action per round, I zap your Ioun stone that has an AC 24, 10hp and 5hardness with Scorching Ray, and then use my Wands of Ray of Exhaustion to then properly fatigue-->exhaust you. And then all that stuff in the quote would ensue. You'd be at 1 strength, so good luck getting out of the way of anything I cast. I can still just Gate you to the plane of Water and you can drown.
A 20ft diameter gate can be horizontal and on the ground under Fluffy. It doesn’t have to be standing vertically.
So that's what we target with a dispel and watch as the weight of his own gear prevents him from breathing and he dies?He must mean a Mantle of Immortality, not a Mantle of Authority.
Of course in a theorycrafting battle, it's way cheaper to just implant a Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone.
Hence why I mentioned the implantation of the Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone. Implanted stones can't really be targeted by Dispel Magic, or even Mage's Disjunction.
A 20th level cleric/druid would be about the only thing that could take a 20th level wizard besides another wizard in a theory battle. And even then no one is ever really "getting the drop" on anyone else. It's gonna be what did you prepare today and how can it mess up what I have prepared. Best thing the cleric can do is drop a AMF on the wizard and wade in and beat him up.
I generally agree, though I think Oracles should definitely be added to the list of classes that can beat wizards in a theoretical battle. The amount of BS you can pull off with a Level 20 Oracle is pretty ludicrous.
So that's what we target with a dispel and watch as the weight of his own gear prevents him from breathing and he dies?He must mean a Mantle of Immortality, not a Mantle of Authority.
Of course in a theorycrafting battle, it's way cheaper to just implant a Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone.
Hence why I mentioned the implantation of the Nacreous Gray Sphere Ioun Stone. Implanted stones can't really be targeted by Dispel Magic, or even Mage's Disjunction.
A 20th level cleric/druid would be about the only thing that could take a 20th level wizard besides another wizard in a theory battle. And even then no one is ever really "getting the drop" on anyone else. It's gonna be what did you prepare today and how can it mess up what I have prepared. Best thing the cleric can do is drop a AMF on the wizard and wade in and beat him up.I generally agree, though I think Oracles should definitely be added to the list of classes that can beat wizards in a theoretical battle. The amount of BS you can pull off with a Level 20 Oracle is pretty ludicrous.
Truth. An Oracle with Mnemonic Vestments and the Dreamed Secrets feat is simply put, bullschnickity, and would give any wizard a run for his money. If said Oracle is Half Elf and has Paragon Surge spell... get outta here. Get out. Bad counterargument poster *squirt squirt*, bad!