Oozemorph concerns:
Fixing the 'gear transport/wear' issue is important. (Which is why I suggested gear moving along with character in 'jellow mold state')
Fixing the 'uptime' is important (which is why I tried to come up with some low DC but reasonable way of allowing someone to remain 'in solid' longer)
My recommendation was Constitition to make it an internal fortitude method of keeping solid, but Wisdom or even Charisma could work, too?
If the design philosophy was changed from "Here's this really neat thing that no one can ever play because we have words to burn (apparently?)" to "Here's this thing that people can actually play from L1 without having to resort to horrible non-thematic workarounds" I suspect it would resolve a lot of the concerns around it.
Can someone better at numbers run the numbers on Shifter's Fury?
For animals with one or two natural attacks, it looks great. For others it doesn't seem like it's a good idea at all.
At least when you add on TWF with unarmed strikes, you're getting 3 extra attacks over all your secondary NAs at sixth level.
Also, I'm in full agreement that they should scrap Oozemorph and make it the Shifter's take on the Cave Druid.
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One of the most confusing things about the Oozemorph is the flavor, honestly:
While most shifters are trained in druidic traditions that allow them to tap into animalistic powers, others look instead to the simplest forms of life for inspiration. Known as oozemorphs, these shifters focus on the ooze—a form of life as simple in construction as it is dangerous in combat. While some shifters consider the oozemorph to be unsettling or even vile, these shifters merely embrace a stranger form of life than most. They are not inherently evil, yet they are often misunderstood by druidic circles and these circles’ shifter champions.
Seems like, if as soon as you complete your training, read the right scrolls, or however one gains the first level in their class, that you are now permanently an ooze and must now learn how to have bones and limbs again, contradicts the notion that you're "looking for inspiration" from oozes- you got all the inspiration there is to have when you gained your first oozemorph level and lost structural integrity. For the rest of your career you're looking for inspiration from non-oozes, since you'd like to do stuff with your hands or wear clothes again (things oozes do not do.)
It seems, too, that "Darlene became an ooze" would be perceived as more of an affliction, a thing to treat or caution others away from, than to distrust. Like you might say "Since Darlene became an Ooze, she can no longer attend festivals since she turns into a puddle before they end, so no one will dance with her and she can't bob for apples" not "Watch out for Darlene, she's liable to turn into a puddle at any time" since that's not really a thing to be concerned about (except for out of sympathy for poor Darlene.)
Also, the Oozemorph either needs disguise as a class skill or we need a trait that grants such.
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One of the most confusing things about the Oozemorph is the flavor, honestly:
While most shifters are trained in druidic traditions that allow them to tap into animalistic powers, others look instead to the simplest forms of life for inspiration. Known as oozemorphs, these shifters focus on the ooze—a form of life as simple in construction as it is dangerous in combat. While some shifters consider the oozemorph to be unsettling or even vile, these shifters merely embrace a stranger form of life than most. They are not inherently evil, yet they are often misunderstood by druidic circles and these circles’ shifter champions.Seems like, if as soon as you complete your training, read the right scrolls, or however one gains the first level in their class, that you are now permanently an ooze and must now learn how to have bones and limbs again, contradicts the notion that you're "looking for inspiration" from oozes- you got all the inspiration there is to have when you gained your first oozemorph level and lost structural integrity. For the rest of your career you're looking for inspiration from non-oozes, since you'd like to do stuff with your hands or wear clothes again (things oozes do not do.)
It seems, too, that "Darlene became an ooze" would be perceived as more of an affliction, a thing to treat or caution others away from, than to distrust. Like you might say "Since Darlene became an Ooze, she can no longer attend festivals since she turns into a puddle before they end, so no one will dance with her and she can't bob for apples" not "Watch out for Darlene, she's liable to turn into a puddle at any time" since that's not really a thing to be concerned about (except for out of sympathy for poor Darlene.)
Also, the Oozemorph either needs disguise as a class skill or we need a trait that grants such.
Ya, I have brought up several times that the descriptive text is at odd's with the mechanics.
Yep, Horror Adventures does say to to ask GM's permission before taking any (it even calls out that they didn't bother putting this disclaimer in the Bestiaries because they were all Monster Feats aside from Craft Construct).
If anyone noticed that in the games I play in, they tossed it the garbage bin and didn't mention it.
IMO if the DM allows a race, class, ect that has or can gain natural weapons, I shouldn't have to ask if it can take feats to improve them. NOTHING about improved natural attack or multiattack says/implies 'monster' anymore than Eldritch Claws say/implies 'PC" or "combat". IMO, it seems quite unneeded: although it could serve one good use I guess in that any game that tried to enforce that would be a warning that I need to RUN away from it. It's like a version of 'martials [with natural weapons] can't have nice things..." P
My favorite little thing about Oozemorphs is how I have the exact same list of feats a Fighter gets to choose from, except without bonus feats or any reason to take weapon related feats. What's that? Wild Shape feats exist? I have no idea what you're talking about.
.... a GM being aware of what all abilities your character has would make you run away from the game?
The DM's aware at character creation: if he approves the character, whose entire shtick is carving people up with natural weapons, and then later says I can't take natural weapons feats later in a gotcha moment? Yep, I'm putting on my running shoes. It's like allowing a greatsword character or a gun focused character and randomly disabling the majority of feats that are focused on those weapons 'cause the book said'. With feats like sacred geometry/dazing spell floating around, you have to dig PRETTY DARN low to find natural weapon 'monster feats' disruptive in ANY way. The continued inclusion of races/classes that use/rely on natural weapons AFTER horror makes the 'rule' all the more puzzling? The 'monster feats' in the bestiary weren't put there for 'balance' reason, just that many more 'core' monsters would use then over 'core' PC's.
EDIT: the DM can always say no to any rules element, but I'd expect the same rulings for weapon finesse and weapon focus as I would multiattack. I shouldn't have to pre-approve putting weapon focus on my sheet either.
I still think a few things could benefit from wording clarifications regarding Shifter Claws. Not big things, just stuff like for Shifter's Fury it should note that the secondary attacks can still benefit from the DR bypass but not from the increased damage dice, or the same thing for Shifter's Edge. Or make it clear that Shifter Claws in full only applies to two attacks, and only those two attacks get the improved damage and DR bypass and all others are left as they were without the ability.
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Oozemorph concerns:Fixing the 'gear transport/wear' issue is important. (Which is why I suggested gear moving along with character in 'jellow mold state')
Fixing the 'uptime' is important (which is why I tried to come up with some low DC but reasonable way of allowing someone to remain 'in solid' longer)
I feel your heart is in the right place, but adding in more drawbacks to the pretty crippling timer you put yourself on with one use of Fluidic Form early on is not the most fun way of going about it. But that can be said for the actual archetype. It just isn't fun to play as is.
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.... a GM being aware of what all abilities your character has would make you run away from the game?The DM's aware at character creation: if he approves the character, whose entire shtick is carving people up with natural weapons, and then later says I can't take natural weapons feats later in a gotcha moment? Yep, I'm putting on my running shoes. It's like allowing a greatsword character or a gun focused character and randomly disabling the majority of feats that are focused on those weapons 'cause the book said'. With feats like sacred geometry/dazing spell floating around, you have to dig PRETTY DARN low to find natural weapon 'monster feats' disruptive in ANY way. The continued inclusion of races/classes that use/rely on natural weapons AFTER horror makes the 'rule' all the more puzzling? The 'monster feats' in the bestiary weren't put there for 'balance' reason, just that many more 'core' monsters would use then over 'core' PC's.
EDIT: the DM can always say no to any rules element, but I'd expect the same rulings for weapon finesse and weapon focus as I would multiattack. I shouldn't have to pre-approve putting weapon focus on my sheet either.
That's not what the book says and you were saying something different with your previous posts. The book just says "Hey these feats (feats, plural, not just INA) were intended for monsters so ask before you take them since they might be disruptive. Nowhere does it say "Monster's only, you're not allowed to use them."
That's not what the book says and you were saying something different with your previous posts. The book just says "Hey these feats (feats, plural, not just INA) were intended for monsters so ask before you take them since they might be disruptive. Nowhere does it say "Monster's only, you're not allowed to use them."
I dispute "intended for monsters" after PC with natural attacks and natural armor, and druids were made. I secondly dispute 'disruptive': if they are that then dozens of 'PC' feats should get in line first for a [disruptive] tag. Third, there are other feats that modify the exact things, like eldritch claws, that are tagged as OK!!! no need to check because...? They happened to be printed in a certain book?
"Monster's only, you're not allowed to use them.": They gave them a tag [monster]. If I added a tag like [PC] or [NPC] to some feats, what do you think those mean? What game was ever disrupted by Improved Natural Armor? Again, if I want to blow a feat to get +1 natural armor, I can't see a reason I'd have to pre approve that when eldritch claws is a go without pre approval.
IMO it's like this rule bled over from PFS houserules for some reason as I've always struggled to find the 'disruptive' part of 'monster' feats. Maybe the SLA ones, but why throw all of the feats under the bus because of 3 feats?
PS: It's also VERY annoying to find stealth errata in a completely unrelated book. It's more troubling than the actual ruling, as I don't expect many that I play with will notice and even if they did, will ignore it. :P
PPS: grumble, grumble, grumble, grumble...
Most of the following feats apply specifically to monsters, although some player characters might qualify for them (particularly Craft Construct) -- pg 314
Monster feats, with the called out exception of Craft Construct, seem to be assumed to be off-limits to players. A GM can always overrule that, obviously (I would), but I don't see why it should be a blanket case that they must. Some of those might be OK for players, but some are way overpowered. If one of my players took one without talking to me first I'd definitely be unhappy. And I don't see why a GM couldn't exclude Multiattack and also include Weapon Finesse. I'd never actually heard of a PC taking Multiattack. I assumed it was off limits (as implied by RAW), and it's not like there is a lack of natural attack feats available.
As a side note, monster feats (including Multiattack) can be found here. I think Multiattack falls under the category of
Note that for the purposes of this site it was decided that a feat that wasn’t explicitly notated as a “monster feat” in the original source materials but which, by it’s prerequisites or other requirements, is exceptionally unlikely to be a viable choice for a player character was listed here.
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Can someone better at numbers run the numbers on Shifter's Fury?
For animals with one or two natural attacks, it looks great. For others it doesn't seem like it's a good idea at all.
At least when you add on TWF with unarmed strikes, you're getting 3 extra attacks over all your secondary NAs at sixth level.
Also, I'm in full agreement that they should scrap Oozemorph and make it the Shifter's take on the Cave Druid.
So far I've only had a chance to test vs. Level 12 builds; specifically, I've been comparing to the Dino-Bull-Tiger shifter that uses dex to hit described in this post I made last year.
At level 12, Shifter's Fury looks decently balanced. A hypothetical STR based Tiger major form that uses claw as its fury attack (bite and 2nd claw as secondary) deals slightly better DPR than the build above, but its not a big change. For major forms like Bull, where you have only one natural attack, your full attack damage is now on par with the many-natural-attacks builds (within +/- 10% by my reckoning). You also scale much better with party buffs like good hope, inspire courage and haste. On the other hand, without tiger or dino form, you don't have the insane advantage of pounce... so I doubt we're going to be seeing a flood of bulls or whatever.
I still have a lot to test, but I'll say that Shifter's Fury is cleverly designed! It helps the underperforming forms catch up while being minimally impactful to the best forms.
I feel like "ask your GM" is probably not a wholly unreasonable way to handle a lot of kinds of feats. But things like "multiattack" and "improved natural attack" are likely to be much less of an issue in play than things like Leadership, Sacred Geometry, or Crafting Feats.
I mean, Improved NA turning a d6 weapon into a d8 weapon is as much added damage as martial focus, and it doesn't even unlock weapon mastery feats.
I highly doubt that disclaimer was put in because of Improved Natural Attack and Improved Natural Armor.
I agree and that's the rub. The disclaimer is on EVERY feat, not just the disruptive ones. I've seen people discount all the feats, like in PFS even though most are NOT disruptive.
IThere has been no errata, no changing of rules.
Not true, they added the monster tag, and made different wording that applies to said wording AND retroactively added said tag to the feats in the bestiary.
Monster feats, with the called out exception of Craft Construct, seem to be assumed to be off-limits to players.
Which is a faulty assumption at it's base. CORE races qualify for monster feats...
some are way overpowered.
Which ones overpower dazing spell and sacred geometry? [feats with no warning I might add]
If one of my players took one without talking to me first I'd definitely be unhappy.
If you took certain feats off the table KNOWING what kind of character I was building, I'D be unhappy too.
And I don't see why a GM couldn't exclude Multiattack and also include Weapon Finesse.
They could but I'd question why. If they are going to arbitrarily restrict content for no logical/plausible reason, that a good indication I don't want to be there.
I'd never actually heard of a PC taking Multiattack.
I've almost never heard of NOT being able to is you qualify. [PFS and those running those rules exceptions]
I assumed it was off limits (as implied by RAW), and it's not like there is a lack of natural attack feats available.
Funny, I read those words and assumed the words on the page meant what they said in context of when they where made [core races/classes]: they were made to affect things CORE PC's don't have usually have, but you might qualify to take them if you have the prerequisites
it’s prerequisites or other requirements, is exceptionally unlikely to be a viable choice for a player character[/b] was listed here.
AH... they cast a VERY wide net, with about 1/2 the feats easily possible and viable [and legal]. I think more of the listed feats than not fail to meet the requirements they listed.
For instance grudge fighter requires orc: 1/2 orcs, a CORE race, qualifies as does taking a sorcerer's bloodline. I find it hard to take ANYONE seriously that adds Orc Weapon Expertise to the list of things NOT viable for a 1/2 orc. [not good, but viable]
Racial heritage allows several races to gain access to unusual races, like goblin, kobold hobgoblin.
Several of the races required have complete racial write ups, including racial feats, spells and FCB making them quite viable.
I feel like "ask your GM" is probably not a wholly unreasonable way to handle a lot of kinds of feats.
I agree in a general way you should run everything past you DM. What irks me is having to ask EACH and EVERY step for some feats while other are fine and run seamlessly. I shouldn't have to 'run it past' my DM to take weapon focus or improved natural armor...
But things like "multiattack" and "improved natural attack" are likely to be much less of an issue in play than things like Leadership, Sacred Geometry, or Crafting Feats.
I like to see an allowed/disallowed list at the start of a game. Yes crafting, no leadership, ect. I don't foresee blanket bans on 'monster feats', so I now NEED to not only run my basic character past the DM but get approval for my ENTIRE character to 20th [or whatever level we make it to], including feats, so I can be sure the feats I want can be taken.
I mean, Improved NA turning a d6 weapon into a d8 weapon is as much added damage as martial focus, and it doesn't even unlock weapon mastery feats.
I don't see them even a LITTLE disruptive, hence my confusion on their being called out as such and that they need pre approval to take... :P
Think your timeline order may be wrong. Pretty sure a lot of that existed before monster feats.
While druids where there, PC races getting flight, natural attack and natural armor where after the bestiary.
Just don't take for granted it's an assured thing.
See I don't see why, when races that let you qualify for them are official published CORE races [natural attacks/improved natural attacks/SLA's]. Then JUST adding featured races from the ARG, you add most of the rest [3 natural attack, flight] of the bestiary feats. I just find it odd to have to specifically ASK if every monster feat I want to use over my character career is allowed at character creation when I can assume eldritch claw is allowed by default... :P
Call it a pet peeve if you will, it just irks me. I think we've sidetracked enough here, so I just leave my thought that the [monster] tag of feats is 'badwrongfun' and I hope to NEVER see it in use. :(
Please carry on with the shifter debate in progress...
Honestly, I think they should errata oozemorph to look like below.
...
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
An oozemorph is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and light armor.This replaces a shifter’s normal weapon and armor proficiencies.
Compression (Ex)
An oozemorph gains compression as per the universal monster rule. This ability works for the oozemorph's Fluidic Body and any form taken using it's Fluidic Form, though not in forms taken via any other polymorph effects.Fluidic Body (Ex)
An oozemorph's base body is no longer composed of flesh and blood but rather a protoplasmic gel that has the same shape, volume, and weight. An oozemorph treats her creature type as both ooze and her base creature type from her race for the purposes of effects targeting creatures by type (such as bane weapons and a ranger’s favored enemy). This form retains the base senses, speeds, and abilities of the oozemorph’s original race. While in this body, an oozemorph has a 20% chance to ignore additional damage caused by critical hits and precision damage.An oozemorph can change their body to that of a protoplasmic blob that has the same volume and weight. In this ooze body, the oozemorph is immune to critical hits and precision damage and can’t be flanked. However, she has no magic item slots and she cannot benefit from armor; cast spells; hold objects; speak; or use any magic item that requires activation, is held, or is worn on the body. This form retains the base senses and land speed of the oozemorph’s original race, but loses any other abilities dependent on form. Switching between the two bodies takes a swift action. An oozemorph reverts to this formless state whenever she is unconscious or in an area of antimagic.
This replaces chimeric form, greater chimeric form, shifter aspect, and all improvements of shifter aspect.
Fluidic Form (Su)
A number of times per day equal to half her level (minimum 1), an oozemorph can transform as if using alter self,
Nice try....but it really doesn't correct what's crippling the Oozemorph in the first place. Alter self for one out of twenty four hours a day at first level.....is not even remotely sane.
Also a bit confused....you reduce their immunity to precision damage to 20% at one point....then turn right around and say they are immune the next paragraph ?
My wording is bad for it I guess.
Essentially for Fluidic Body they have 2 forms, they have a base form of their race, and they also have their Ooze form. While in the shape of their base race they have the 20% chance of reduction, wheras when they take up their ooze form they get full immunity.
This grants them their humanoid form permanently at level 1, but they don't appear to be human (instead made up of protoplasmic gel, a la slime girls). They can alter self to appear normal (in case they want to interact with people who might be biased against blob people).
I was just starting to wonder if that's what you meant...
That certainly brings it in line with the flavor text more....I won't ask who "slime girls" are....I'm probably way to old to be exposed to that :PThat's a far more workable solution ;)
Is it so hard to just have all the archetypes be based off the various shapechange spell chains. Oozemorph is cool but just make it a shifter that changes into a ooze to save everyone the headache and grant him ooze abilities.
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Is it so hard to just have all the archetypes be based off the various shapechange spell chains. Oozemorph is cool but just make it a shifter that changes into a ooze to save everyone the headache and grant him ooze abilities.
The problem with this approach is that archetypes essentially become same-y with themselves, and makes the Shifter not only a bland class, but also very bland archetypes as well, and is honestly why Druid archetypes are largely ignored.
For example, all of the "X Shaman" archetypes could have just been condensed into a single archetype that has better wording to cover the general idea of what the archetype could and could not permit, and allow creative space for other, cooler and more useful archetypes.
Following that formula, letting Shifters shape into whatever they want (they just don't get the Aspect benefits) could go a long way to solving the shoehorning problem the class has as a whole.
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Is it so hard to just have all the archetypes be based off the various shapechange spell chains. Oozemorph is cool but just make it a shifter that changes into a ooze to save everyone the headache and grant him ooze abilities.The problem with this approach is that archetypes essentially become same-y with themselves, and makes the Shifter not only a bland class, but also very bland archetypes as well, and is honestly why Druid archetypes are largely ignored.
For example, all of the "X Shaman" archetypes could have just been condensed into a single archetype that has better wording to cover the general idea of what the archetype could and could not permit, and allow creative space for other, cooler and more useful archetypes.
Following that formula, letting Shifters shape into whatever they want (they just don't get the Aspect benefits) could go a long way to solving the shoehorning problem the class has as a whole.
The creature shamans are bland. Mostly cause they avoid creature group types and narrowly focus to heavily on a theme groups like snakes or avians. The only ones that are I think are fun are those that specifically focus on a type of creature like the cave druid for oozes and goliath druid for giants. I think we can get an entire suite of archetypes like this with changes to other parts of the class to feel unique.
And I agree on the last point. I keep saying just let the Shifter have druid wildshape and let the aspects be something you can add to your wildshape form with the chimeric aspect ability. Yes I would very much like to be a crocodile with antlers while chasing you down with echolocation or a fire elemental in the shape of a tiger or a treant that looks like a bear.
Is it so hard to just have all the archetypes be based off the various shapechange spell chains. Oozemorph is cool but just make it a shifter that changes into a ooze to save everyone the headache and grant him ooze abilities.
The changes to the Shifter have spurred me on to updating my Shapeshifter class again. Dropped some features, added Vermin Form to the shifting options, and have begun working on archetypes. My archetypes get Shapeshifting at a later level than my base Shapeshifter class, and don't have the breadth of options that my base class has, but for the most part benefit from a specific line of polymorph spells. Like my Ooze Shapeshifter gets the benefits of the Ooze Form spells, and when shapeshifting into say a Bear would be an Ooze Bear.
Is it so hard to just have all the archetypes be based off the various shapechange spell chains. Oozemorph is cool but just make it a shifter that changes into a ooze to save everyone the headache and grant him ooze abilities.
That is one of the angles to take on the concept...probably the one most people were expecting.
I actually like the framework of the existing archetype, as it's more an Ooze learning to become a human....and I actually find that to be far more interesting as a character concept..it's just really badly executed, and doesn't fit the flavor text IMO.
The rules clarification was nice....but pretty much fell in line with my RAI...so no big surprise.
It has of course created a new wave of questionable mechanics.
If OOze is my base form....I can't RAW merge gear and such....which is a HUGE problem.
Additionally, the one fix people came up with (instead of just claiming it was broken beyond help) to mitigate the crippling mechanics at lower level (using Kitsune/Realistic likeness... or some other Shape shifting race) has been deliberately blocked, which seems almost like a petty attack to me.
Would also love to know why the "non-metal armor" mechanic was removed from the proficiencies (which it should be)....but not from the DR (which it should be....but isn't).
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Additionally, the one fix people came up with (instead of just claiming it was broken beyond help) to mitigate the crippling mechanics at lower level (using Kitsune/Realistic likeness... or some other Shape shifting race) has been deliberately blocked, which seems almost like a petty attack to me.
This is almost as bad as the initial archetype. I'm not as surprised by it as I should be either.
Additionally, the one fix people came up with (instead of just claiming it was broken beyond help) to mitigate the crippling mechanics at lower level (using Kitsune/Realistic likeness... or some other Shape shifting race) has been deliberately blocked, which seems almost like a petty attack to me.This is almost as bad as the initial archetype. I'm not as surprised by it as I should be either.
I was actually shocked.....and initially it seemed like a petty and deliberate attack.....although I'm trying to get past that feeling....
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I actually like the framework of the existing archetype, as it's more an Ooze learning to become a human....and I actually find that to be far more interesting as a character concept..it's just really badly executed, and doesn't fit the flavor text IMO.
I LOVE the idea and concept. The execution though. I'd like ooze form to be competitive and viable, just in different ways than a humanoid shape. Dump most of the restrictions:
Drop no magic item slotsKeep: cannot benefit from armor
Keep: can't cast spells with somatic components
Keep can't hold objects, but can absorb
Drop can't speak
Drop use any magic item that requires activation, is held, or is worn on the body and instead require absorption.
Drop fatigued after transforming
Add absorption: oozemorph make absorb items [including weapon/armor] and counts as holding/wearing them [excluding weapon/armor].
Add an additional morphic weapon only in blob form.
Solidify: a blob in blob form adds their Str bonus as natural AC [it NEEDS some kind of AC boost to be viable].
I'd be fine cutting back a bit on the shape changing to buff blob form. heck, I'd be happy with just alter self and maybe giant form at 15th.
(using Kitsune/Realistic likeness... or some other Shape shifting race) has been deliberately blocked
It should still work. What blocks it? Those aren't 'racial abilities that don’t depend on shape' so they keep them. You aren't talking about oathbreaking are you?
I actually like the framework of the existing archetype, as it's more an Ooze learning to become a human....and I actually find that to be far more interesting as a character concept..it's just really badly executed, and doesn't fit the flavor text IMO.I LOVE the idea and concept. The execution though. I'd like ooze form to be competitive and viable, just in different ways than a humanoid shape. Dump most of the restrictions:
Drop no magic item slots
Keep: cannot benefit from armor
Keep: can't cast spells with somatic components
Keep can't hold objects, but can absorb
Drop can't speak
Drop use any magic item that requires activation, is held, or is worn on the body and instead require absorption.
Drop fatigued after transforming
Add absorption: oozemorph make absorb items [including weapon/armor] and counts as holding/wearing them [excluding weapon/armor].
Add an additional morphic weapon only in blob form.
Solidify: a blob in blob form adds their Str bonus as natural AC [it NEEDS some kind of AC boost to be viable].I'd be fine cutting back a bit on the shape changing to buff blob form. heck, I'd be happy with just alter self and maybe giant form at 15th.
(using Kitsune/Realistic likeness... or some other Shape shifting race) has been deliberately blockedIt should still work. What blocks it? Those aren't 'racial abilities that don’t depend on shape' so they keep them. You aren't talking about oathbreaking are you?
This "From the FAQ: An oozemorph's compression, damage reduction, and morphic weaponry function in its oozelike form and any form it takes via fluidic body, though not in forms it takes via other polymorph effects. "
Sorry....but to me that feels like a deliberate cock block....and it seems really deliberate and petty....people tried to find a way to make the Archetype actually playable....and while giving the much needed clarification....they blocked anything that would make the archetype playable....
It's all fun and games til a caster uses Youthful Appearance or Baleful Polymorph on your Oozemorph. And fatigued after transformation sucks since it means you're better off just not bothering to transform when you could just take ranks in Linguistics and use sign language to communicate.
From the FAQ: "An oozemorph's compression, damage reduction, and morphic weaponry function in its oozelike form and any form it takes via fluidic body, though not in forms it takes via other polymorph effects. "
So it loses it's compression [no big loss], DR 4/slashing [more of a big deal but not THAT bad] and morphic weaponry [2 natural attacks].
So I take a Skinwalker [Witchwolf, Fanglord, Aerieborn, Coldborn] and take Extra Feature at first. You have more primary natural attacks than you would with morphic weapons and can use compression by returning to blob so you only miss out on the DR but get to have armor, weapons and can wear magic items. In addition, if you want to wield a weapon and use your naturals as secondary attacks, both Ragebred and Aerieborn leave your hands free and Aerieborn has all primary attacks so you could use a shield and get 3 primary attacks.
Or take a reptoid. You get to pick ANY humanoid form as per alter self. Pick a lizardfolk or a Cecaelia or a tengu or...
So skinwalker and reptoid seem adequate to get you through those lower levels even with the FAQ. I agree it sucks than most abilities don't work in your alternate form but it's not crippling.
So what you're saying is don't play an oozemorph? Because that's literally all their class features that aren't Fluidic form. I'm not counting Clinging ooze because having a 10ft climb speed be your fancy level 4 upgrade is a no feature in most situations.
So what you're saying is don't play an oozemorph? Because that's literally all their class features that aren't Fluidic form. I'm not counting Clinging ooze because having a 10ft climb speed be your fancy level 4 upgrade is a no feature in most situations.
What the FAQ tells us is not to play an oozemorph at low levels. What I posted will allow you to get through those levels if that's what you want. Is it fun? Not really! Is it needed? No way! I can only post what is workable with what we're given.
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It really is a shame, but I just hope the devs have something to give them. Because as it stands it's restrictive to play one at low levels and at higher levels you do nothing better than any other martial, caster or partial caster. But I also have no idea what types of abilities they should be given aside from a way to meld gear into their ooze form.
It really is a shame, but I just hope the devs have something to give them. Because as it stands it's restrictive to play one at low levels and at higher levels you do nothing better than any other martial, caster or partial caster. But I also have no idea what types of abilities they should be given aside from a way to meld gear into their ooze form.
The best way IMO is to buff the blob form: It makes low levels suck less and if you make it competitive against your shapechange, it could really be versatile. For instance, it could have an slime charge that lets it pounce and maybe turn once or ignore difficult terrain. Maybe a morphic tool that lets you mimic tools like a Traveler's Any-Tool or allow customization of morphic weapons [trade number of attacks for abilities like reach].
I can literally think of dozens of ideas to make the oozemorph not suck. they mostly require that blob form doesn't suck and that isn't in the cards so far.
I actually like the framework of the existing archetype, as it's more an Ooze learning to become a human....and I actually find that to be far more interesting as a character concept..it's just really badly executed, and doesn't fit the flavor text IMO.I LOVE the idea and concept. The execution though. {. . .}
[broken_record]Which again, fits better with being a new player character race that happens to have its own Shifter archetype.[/broken_record]
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But if they did that then there would need to be an entire new PDF section that would need to be given out to everyone who bought UW, or something. I really hope there isn't an argument for "if we make the base form stronger then why would you shape shift into a humanoid form in the first place."
I just want some sort of scaling ability of some sort, a way to not need another player to carry my gear for most of an adventuring day, and something that is worth staying past level 6.
Could we get some clarification on what the phrase "a natural attack augmented by your claws" means in regards to the Shifter's Edge feat? Does it mean just the natural attacks that gain your increased damage? Or all natural attacks from Wild Shape(since all natural attacks are, as written, "augmented" by the Shifter Claws ability, which allows them to bypass DR)?
If it's the former, that seems a little weak, at least compared to similar abilities like the Vigilante's Lethal Grace.
But if they did that then there would need to be an entire new PDF section that would need to be given out to everyone who bought UW, or something.
They printed out a PDF for the winter witch when it got revised, to it's technically possible. I think though the an errata sheet and a 'the changes will be reflected in the next printing' is the best you'll see.