Changes to the Shifter


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps oozmorph immunities to crits and flanking could be worked in at 'dead' levels in exchange for other creature comforts at 1st level like:

Being able to communicate with the party in any form
Being able to carry the gear the character possesses
Being able to actually adventure instead of travelling in a bucket and being an exp... sponge.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Being able to actually adventure instead of travelling in a bucket and being an exp... sponge.

But I kind of like the idea of waking up and I'm already 6th!


You might have enough gold to afford whatever your heart desires at that point. Provided the party shares the loot.


GodsBlister wrote:
You might have enough gold to afford whatever your heart desires at that point. Provided the party shares the loot.

Why wouldn't they? The most convenient thing to carry the loot in is the bucket... it's all slimy now anyway.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

But wouldn't you run out of room in the bucket for... you?


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


But wouldn't you run out of room in the bucket for... you?

A Bucket of Holding is the only reasonable solution.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Doesn't exist in PFS, though.

Could an oozemorph live in an open Handy Haversack?


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Doesn't exist in PFS, though.

Could an oozemorph live in an open Handy Haversack?

As long as it's open, I'd assume so. The problem is the size and weight limitations. 80 lbs restricts it to Small oozemorphs and not a whole lot of loot.


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Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Paizo Employee Designer

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MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, a +2 racial bonus to Perception checks based on hearing, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, your racial bonus to Perception checks based on hearing increases to +4, and you gain a +2 racial bonus on initiative checks. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Woohoo!


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Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, scent, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, and you gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking with scent. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

Halfling Weretouched corgi's... Riding a faerie mount... I'm getting Sir Didymus and Ambrosius from the The Labyrinth flashbacks! ;)


Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, scent, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, and you gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking with scent. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

Omigosh. Where do I send the cookies. XD

And thank you! :D

Paizo Employee Designer

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MuddyVolcano wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, scent, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, and you gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking with scent. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

Omigosh. Where do I send the cookies. XD

And thank you! :D

I think in the past people have sent baked goodies to Paizo's address on the contact us page on the site, but I think it's been a year or two since the last time.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, scent, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, and you gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking with scent. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

You continue to make all our dreams come true, sweetums!


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Okay, now the tougher part, now that it's seen 'print':

...how soon until it's approved for PFS?

:P


Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Okay, now the tougher part, now that it's seen 'print':

...how soon until it's approved for PFS?

:P

As soon as I can play a skinwalker (werecorgi-kin) [when the Blood of the Corgi book comes out]. :)


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I think I'd be more interested in "Inner Sea Corgis" than *Blood* of the Corgi, to be honest.


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I think I'd be more interested in "Inner Sea Corgis" than *Blood* of the Corgi, to be honest.

We could just combine the two into Ultimate Corgis Unchained hardback...


I think we need the CRB "Corgi rules Book."


Talonhawke wrote:
I think we need the CRB "Corgi rules Book."

I smell a possible 1 April free download goodie

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, scent, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, and you gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking with scent. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

... As the owner of at least one Calamity, I'd have to say that I'd give Alertness and a further bonus to intiative rather than scent. Corgi's have far better hearing than many dogs and their sniffer, while still pretty good, isn't as great as many other dogs. Also, some sort of squeeze ability would not be out of the ordinary. Our dog loves to squeeze into the weirdest lowest places. She'd hide under the couch if there were more than 3 inches to do it in.

Thumbs up. =)


PossibleCabbage wrote:
I think I'd be more interested in "Inner Sea Corgis" than *Blood* of the Corgi, to be honest.

I would be more interested in picking a new corgi heritage. Pembrokes are great, but I think it would be interesting to play a Cardigan.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Lissa Guillet wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, scent, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, and you gain a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking with scent. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

... As the owner of at least one Calamity, I'd have to say that I'd give Alertness and a further bonus to intiative rather than scent. Corgi's have far better hearing than many dogs and their sniffer, while still pretty good, isn't as great as many other dogs. Also, some sort of squeeze ability would not be out of the ordinary. Our dog loves to squeeze into the weirdest lowest places. She'd hide under the couch if there were more than 3 inches to do it in.

Thumbs up. =)

I had based it on the corgi stats in the descriptive text of fey mount, but I bow to your superior corgi-fu on this and all other corgi-related matters, so I've adjusted to remove scent and give hearing-based bonuses (I opted for racial bonus over Alertness so it will stack if you find a way to have a corgi familiar with the same character) and initiative!


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Starfinder Superscriber
Mark Seifter wrote:
MuddyVolcano wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Thanks so much for the shifter update. I have faith in you!

What would it take to get a Corgi Aspect added to the list, even as just a blog post?

Thanks!

Faerie Mount / Corgi

The aspect of the faerie mount invokes a magical corgi from the First World (see Adventure Path #119: Prisoner of the Blight for more details), renowned for their loyalty and bravery. Those who take this aspect have the power of Calamity at their fingertips.

Minor Form: You gain a +4 competence bonus on saves against fear. At 8th level, this bonus increases to +6, and at 15th level, it increases to +8.

Major Form: Your shape changes to that of a fey mount (Prisoner of the Blight). While in this form, you gain low-light vision, a +2 racial bonus to Perception checks based on hearing, a 40-foot base land speed, and a bite attack (1d6 damage), and you gain a +4 racial bonus to CMD against bull rush and trip. At 8th level, you gain Nimble Moves as a bonus feat as long as you are carrying no more than a light load, your racial bonus to Perception checks based on hearing increases to +4, and you gain a +2 racial bonus on initiative checks. At 15th level, you gain Improved Natural Attack (bite) and your critical multiplier with your bite attack increases by 1, to a maximum of x4.

This is truly a thing of beauty!


I can't wait to see the rabbit aspect...It can jump really...it's got really sharp...look at the bones;)


Dragon78 wrote:
I can't wait to see the rabbit aspect...It can jump really...it's got really sharp...look at the bones;)

It'll have improved natural attack and improved crit bite, and DR/Holy Hand Grenades.

Shadow Lodge

New aspects are useful, if distracting.

Just wish we could playtest. There is no way they've sold out of UW so soon, right? It's not like these changes would be in print for a few more months.


Dragonborn3 wrote:

New aspects are useful, if distracting.

Just wish we could playtest. There is no way they've sold out of UW so soon, right? It's not like these changes would be in print for a few more months.

We can always play test....all i takes is a group willing to do so.


Dragonborn3 wrote:
There is no way they've sold out of UW so soon, right?

Well that depends how many copies you want to buy. I'm sure you can trigger a reprint AND you can build a fort out of them. ;)


It looks like the Shifter is really coming along. I think if they fill the currently dead levels with extra feats or abilities this will be a really fun class to play. As Mark was kind enough to show, there is a ton of potential in the form of new aspects that I'm sure Paizo and third party publishers will build on.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Whoops! Posted this in the wrong thread!

Hey guys I went and collected all the changes and errata that The Shifter went through and applied it to the class. Basically it's a single document you can refer to when you want to look up the Shifter without referring to various different sources until all the changes are final. I'll update it as more updates roll on through. I'm debating adding the errata'd archetypes to the doc.

Here's the link for you to view at your leisure: Updated Shifter.


Painful Bugger wrote:

Whoops! Posted this in the wrong thread!

Hey guys I went and collected all the changes and errata that The Shifter went through and applied it to the class. Basically it's a single document you can refer to when you want to look up the Shifter without referring to various different sources until all the changes are final. I'll update it as more updates roll on through. I'm debating adding the errata'd archetypes to the doc.

Here's the link for you to view at your leisure: Updated Shifter.

This is very helpful! Thank you Painful Bugger.


Painful Bugger wrote:

Whoops! Posted this in the wrong thread!

Hey guys I went and collected all the changes and errata that The Shifter went through and applied it to the class. Basically it's a single document you can refer to when you want to look up the Shifter without referring to various different sources until all the changes are final. I'll update it as more updates roll on through. I'm debating adding the errata'd archetypes to the doc.

Here's the link for you to view at your leisure: Updated Shifter.

There is no human FCB listed in that document.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Player Killer wrote:
Painful Bugger wrote:

Whoops! Posted this in the wrong thread!

Hey guys I went and collected all the changes and errata that The Shifter went through and applied it to the class. Basically it's a single document you can refer to when you want to look up the Shifter without referring to various different sources until all the changes are final. I'll update it as more updates roll on through. I'm debating adding the errata'd archetypes to the doc.

Here's the link for you to view at your leisure: Updated Shifter.

This is very helpful! Thank you Painful Bugger.

You're very welcome.

graystone wrote:
There is no human FCB listed in that document.

Thanks for the catch, I just copy pasted that section since nothing changed for them and missed the humans.

Player Killer wrote:
It looks like the Shifter is really coming along. I think if they fill the currently dead levels with extra feats or abilities this will be a really fun class to play. As Mark was kind enough to show, there is a ton of potential in the form of new aspects that I'm sure Paizo and third party publishers will build on.

Aspects be fun but I still think they should be something that gets tacked on. The Shifter really needs a Wild Shape not limited by what aspects they've selected. All that really does is make people choose a small number of forms. I really just want a Wild Shape that is functionally very similar to druid with a progression like Beast Shape I, Beast Shape II, Beast Shape III, and so on.

I would want wild shape to work like a druid's and aspects to work something like this (gonna just grab the bear aspect since it's the simplest):

Bear Aspect:
1st level: You gain a bite attack (1d8 damage), two claw attacks (1d6 damage), and the grab ability with your claw attacks.
8th level: You gain Improved Natural Attack (Bestiary 315) with your claws.
15th level: The critical multiplier of your claw attack increases by 1 (×2 becomes ×3) to a maximum of ×4, and you gain the Awesome Blow feat (Bestiary 314).

And have them all work on that level with you being able to slap them onto your base form or whatever form you happen to be in at the time. So you can do something like turn into a small earth elemental shaped like a bear with a bite and claws.


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Painful Bugger wrote:
Thanks for the catch, I just copy pasted that section since nothing changed for them and missed the humans.

No problem! Thanks for the document! ;)


I saw it brought up off-site, and figured it might be worth asking here, since I don't think I've seen it asked here yet.

Some Major Aspects don't state what size you become when you enter Wildshape. Would it be the same size as the animal the Aspect references, or is there a default size if one isn't mentioned?


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Yeah, not a fan of the aspect based limited form concept. I still think they should just give us actual wild shape(animals) and the aspects just add constant abilities/bonuses like extra natural attacks, wings, gills, natural armor bonus, darkvision, bleed, trip, swim speed, poison, skill bonuses, quills, etc. It would save up on space and they could add more animal aspects.

Shadow Lodge

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Okay, now the tougher part, now that it's seen 'print':

...how soon until it's approved for PFS?

:P

*whistles innocently*


Something tells me he's up to something >.>

Sovereign Court

Small question that I'm not sure if it has been answered, but does Shifter's Fury prevent your other natural attacks from benefiting from the DR bypass/crit modifier part of Shifter's Claws or just the damage die increase?


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Is it intended that turning into an ooze causes you to lose your attunements to your magic items?

Is it also intended for oozemorphs to be unable to attune to magic items since they can't adhere to the 24 hour clause?


Player Killer wrote:
It looks like the Shifter is really coming along. I think if they fill the currently dead levels with extra feats or abilities this will be a really fun class to play. As Mark was kind enough to show, there is a ton of potential in the form of new aspects that I'm sure Paizo and third party publishers will build on.
Painful Bugger wrote:

Aspects be fun but I still think they should be something that gets tacked on. The Shifter really needs a Wild Shape not limited by what aspects they've selected. All that really does is make people choose a small number of forms. I really just want a Wild Shape that is functionally very similar to druid with a progression like Beast Shape I, Beast Shape II, Beast Shape III, and so on.

I would want wild shape to work like a druid's and aspects to work something like this...

I agree that if the developer wanted the Shifter to be the master of wild shaping, what you suggest would be the way to go (and a very fun class to play). I'm not sure that's what they're looking to do with this class. At the very least, if they don't go the direction you suggest, filling the dead levels of the current class will make it viable (and in my humble opinion, fun) compared to other Pathfinder classes. My daughter is looking to play a shifter in our RoRL campaign so I'm hoping the details are ironed out soon :)


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Here's a link to a table calculating the Str modifier applied to attacks for shifter's fury.


willuwontu wrote:

Is it intended that turning into an ooze causes you to lose your attunements to your magic items?

Is it also intended for oozemorphs to be unable to attune to magic items since they can't adhere to the 24 hour clause?

Apparently.

And as your Ooze form is not a polymorph effect, but your true form...you wouldn't be able to meld your equipment anyway.


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I made a corgi build. This was a worthwhile way to spend a study period.

Corgi Shifter Build:
Corgi Shifter
Abilities (20 Point Buy):
Str: 18 [16+2] (+4), Dex: 12 (+1), Con: 12 (+1), Int: 10 (+0), Wis: 16 (+3), Cha: 7 (-2)

Options:
Race: Human
Alternate Racial Traits: –
Favored Class Bonus: +1 Hit Point
Archetype: –
Traits: Bred for War and Reactionary
Important Items: Headband of Inspired Wisdom

Shifter Aspect:
1. Corgi
5. Tiger
10. Bull
15. Bear
20. Falcon

Feats:
1. Power Attack
1b. Weapon Focus (bite)
3. Improved Initiative
5. Shifter’s Rush
7. Vital Strike
9. Devastating Strike
11. Improved Vital Strike
13. Improved Natural Attack (bite)
15. Painful Blow
17. Greater Vital Strike
19. Improved Sunder

Ability Score Increases:
4. +1 Str
8. +1 Str
12. +1 Str
16. +1 Str
20. +1 Str


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Should I be disturbed that it's easier to build a Corgi-shifter using the rules as currently written than an ooze-entity?


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Should I be disturbed that it's easier to build a Corgi-shifter using the rules as currently written than an ooze-entity?

Disturbed that an imitation of a core class feature is easier to build around than a niche archetype? Not really.


Anything for the nature of a more reasonable plane than that obsolete piece of junk the fey call home?

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