The Fallen Sons and Daughters of Heaven Pathfinder Campaign

Game Master Divinitus

Here's thunderbeard, checking in with Seiyasha, the Lady of Laughter

Portfolio: Dark comedy, creativity, performance art, aesthetic zeal, martial arts
Domains: Artifice (Construct), Travel (through classes)

I’m picturing her, morality-wise, as inspired by South Park’s Joke Bot; and kind of a dark mirror of Shelyn or Desna. Unlike many of the others, her fall wouldn’t have been a sudden single event, but rather a gradual drift, moving from Elysium through the Outer Planes, one step at a time.

Story and stats in alias.

I'm trying to avoid alias bloat - Sariel only gets one if she's accepted. XD

A fine idea... I wanted to do the same, but eventually decided I would keep Harlequin around anyway :)

@thunderbird: I think the game is supposed to START with our fall.
I understand your notion, as that of Harlequin would also make more sense as a gradual drift, but I think we'll need to get more details from GM regarding that.

dot. going with a wizard/something/something.

@thunderbird: I think the game is supposed to START with our fall.

I understand your notion, as that of Harlequin would also make more sense as a gradual drift, but I think we'll need to get more details from GM regarding that.

Maybe? But every single other character appears to have an actual fall (and its conclusion) written out, while if you notice, I don't specifically go all the way there.

And Dread Lich isn't something I'd normally expect to be a "gradual drift"—it's very, extremely, intentionally undead in a manner that typically takes half a year of focused preparation. Unless the fall you're talking about the process of being recruited to a specific side?

Looks like this is where we're at. People may still be missing; feel free to repost and add yourself.

Araniel - No build yet
Cronossuss (Johnny Panic) - Portfolio: Time, Domain: Time, Mighty Time Thief/Godling/Psion (I thought the Mighty template was banned, though?)
The Lady of Laughter (thunderbeard) - Portfolio: Performance Art, Domain: Construct, Nightmare Lord Arcane Trickster/Monk/Inquisitor
Arkothus (TarkXT) - Portfolio: Ruin, Domain: Construct, Alacritous Resolute Limbjack Machinesmith/Godling/Aegis
Sariel (Rednal) - Portfolio: Temptation, Domain: Divine, Corruptor Fortune-Blessed Psychic Mesmer/Oracle/Warlord
[http://paizo.com/people/JadgaelFallenOfBetrayal]Jagdael[/url] (Rynjin) - Portfolio: Betrayal, Domain: Tactics, Stalker/Soulknife/Monk
Iaidionnel (Xentik) - Portfolio: ?, Domain: Restoration, Negative-Energy Dread Wraith Sovereign Oracle/Monk/Magus
Mamoniel (JonGarrett) - Portfolio: Greed, Domain: Greed, Fortune-Blessed Bard/Psion/Gunslinger
Harlequin
(MordredOfFairy) - Portfolio: Death, Domain: Deception, Suzerain Inveigler Dread Lich Alacritous Herald of Death Shaman/Magus/Monk
Da-Mavet (The Lion Cleric) - Portfolio: Death, Domain: ?, Template? Rogue/Wizard/Gunslinger
Azrielan (Bigrig107) - Portfolio: War, Domain: Catastrophe, Negative-Energy Unholy Graveknight Herald of War Slayer/Magus/Wizard
Balthamel (TannerNielsen) - Portfolio: Lies, Domain: ?, Negative-Energy Inveigler Dread Ghost Antipaladin/Monk/Thrallherd (Note: should remove second +Cha to Fort save)
Cuan - No build yet
Shanalotte (Johnnycat93) - Portfolio: Fire, Domain: Ash, Magus/Inquisitor/Cavalier
TheArchlich - Portfolio: Secrets, No build yet
Vharalathsis (Monkeygod) - No build yet
HighonHolyWater - Portfolio: Rage, No build yet
PhiloPharynx - Portfolio: Patterns, No build yet
Bane88/Ithirael - Portfolio: Madness, No build yet
Tamlakos (Battlespy) - Portfolio: Protection, Domain: Defense, Diamond Eldritch Acid Two-Headed Half-Fiend Barbarian/Inquisitor/Cleric (can a Fiend be a half-Fiend?)
Solomon (Tenro) - Portfolio: Judgment, Domain: Knowledge, Lawbound Warder/Battle Templar/Fighter
Billybrainpan - No build yet
rorek55 - No build yet
Cthulu_Eats - Portfolio: Blasphemy, No build yet
Gobo Horde - Portfolio: Gluttony, No build yet
Newbonomicon - Portfolio: Mind, No build yet
Browman - Portfolio: Rage, No build yet
Dragonflyer1243 - Portfolio: Retribution, No build yet
Nidoran Duran - Portfolio: Zealotry, No build yet

I already posted in the topic as Pasiruel, with his background. In fact, I was one of the first to do so. I'm still building the character, but the GM helped me a lot. :)

You might want to fix your build, thunder. The GM already said the three points we get (4, 8, 12, for levels) can't raise an attribute over 24 either.

would it be possible to have 1 major artefact, and one lesser? (or, otherwise, non-artefact level for power purposes? mostly because I want Everlasting power)

Also, I will be going with-

Wizard 13 (enchanter, sub-school manipulator)/ Weapon Master fighter 13/ Kensai Magus 12/ crossblooded sorcerer 1 (orc/Fey)

going for a primary focus on control/manipulation (with seduction thrown in) She will also be a very effective swordswoman and blaster.

build is half finishied, just needs skills/Items/spells. eh, ok, 1/3 finished.

also, can items like the belts/headbands raise attributes over 24?

@thunderbeard. Usually in Gestalt they don't allow the "combine two" prestige classes like arcane trickster.

Thunderbeard: Iaidionnel's portfolio consists primarily of undeath.

Archlich: Can you link that in the thread? I've been trying to figure out of that's the case, but couldn't find a definitive statement from The Fallen Herald

Rorek: I think he said we'll eventually be mythic and able to progress the items to minor/major artifacts. They just start as legendary (albeit with 5 legendary abilities).

And belt/headband can't raise stats over 24 for certain. Only thing that can modify stats for sure above 24 is size bonuses. Level-up bonuses may or may not be able to do so. I had assumed they did, but Archlich seems to have seen otherwise.

You might want to fix your build, thunder. The GM already said the three points we get (4, 8, 12, for levels) can't raise an attribute over 24 either.

I just found this—it's on the first or second page, and merely the GM saying "no" to a question. And WOW is it a nerf for casters (we're now trucking notably worse ability scores and thus spell DCs than the average non-gestalt core spellcaster of equal later)!

Guys, take note of this, because almost every character I've seen assigns level-up points somewhere that apparently they can't go. (I'm not going to personally change until I get GM confirmation, because I don't want to have to recalculate saves for literally 40 abilities a fourth time unless I have to)

@thunderbeard. Usually in Gestalt they don't allow the "combine two" prestige classes like arcane trickster.

GM already addressed this, said class-combining PRCs were fine as long as they didn't show up in more than one path and there were more than 1-2 levels in the classes they supported. Also, several other characters use similar classes.

would it be possible to have 1 major artefact, and one lesser? (or, otherwise, non-artefact level for power purposes? mostly because I want Everlasting power)

Why would you want Everlasting? Outsiders already don't eat, sleep, drink, or age. The only thing this gives you is not having to breathe, and it's pretty easy to get that in a variety of was.

Yeah the Ability cap thing is a real downer for a caster since one can easily get a 24 in an ability by level four normally with a single item and ability up.

I wouldn't mind the cap if we got the ability modifiers from templates or could take them with race points.

I think that's the way the GM is keeping the balance. Although it's a big hit on my build too, I'm fine with it... We're powerful already enough with everything else.

EDIT: thunder, could you please update the list with my Pasiruel? I posted him a long time ago, one of the first. I love his background :)

While I do not have an actual build yet, I have listed my classes as well as my portfolio(from the interest check) which is Vengeance/Retribution.

rorek55 wrote:

would it be possible to have 1 major artefact, and one lesser? (or, otherwise, non-artefact level for power purposes? mostly because I want Everlasting power)

Why would you want Everlasting? Outsiders already don't eat, sleep, drink, or age. The only thing this gives you is not having to breathe, and it's pretty easy to get that in a variety of was.

because I completely forgot about that. lol.

is the template "Instrument of the Gods" allowed?

No, it is not - the GM specifically rejected that one (for both flavor and power) in the other thread.

I am SO interested in this I can't stand it. I wish I had seen the thread earlier.

Let me look at the details and propose something. Off the top of my head I think Wizard/Telekineticist/Something with a full BAB.

I think that's the way the GM is keeping the balance. Although it's a big hit on my build too, I'm fine with it... We're powerful already enough with everything else.

Maybe... it definitely makes sense to remove template bonuses and limit starting ability scores to keep things sensible.

At the same time, not being able to put points in at level up strikes me as pretty troubling, because it implies that we'll never be able to increase our ability scores at higher levels. (And with size modifiers allowing much higher Str/Dex/Con, it makes balance interesting but unusual). It also makes me feel like I need to transfer all my enhancement bonus out of Cha so I have a chance of raising it later.

EDIT: thunder, could you please update the list with my Pasiruel? I posted him a long time ago, one of the first. I love his background :)

I was really hoping that people could repost this some time later with whoever got missed in between (you can hit reply to copy a post)...

I just checked, and I saw that getting racial bonuses over 24 was not permitted - I didn't see anything about levelup bonuses not being able to buff a score up, though.

I specifically asked him about it, Rednal. Not sure if either here in the post of via pm. I'm 100% sure he told me the level-up bonuses can't raise over 24 either.

Tamlakos (Battlespy) - Portfolio: Protection, Domain: Defense, Diamond Eldritch Acid Two-Headed Half-Fiend Barbarian/Inquisitor/Cleric (can a Fiend be a half-Fiend?)

It's a wonderful question, but for the most part it was to get the fiend-like abilities and whatnot since it didn't seem like we got many innate traits from being Fallen. Hopefully I can theme that as just fiendish abilities and not actual 'half'-fiend.

And just linking my old questions, hopefully this will help a little so GM doesn't have to worry as much about missing questions.

Is there still room to join? I want to create a God of Thunder!!

@Archlich: Would you mind searching your PMs for that and posting it? Just so the text is here in the thread and easy for everyone else to search for. ^^

@Zanbato: There is indeed still room. We probably have another 2.5 weeks of time to build. XD Gonna be a looong wait for that.

Ok, I have a concept. As I can't use hero lab for the build I'm going to hold off on the mechanics until I'm accepted officially.

Zabkiel - "He who rules over Thrones"

Wizard/Telekineticist/Urban Ranger

His sacred duty before the fall was to watch over and guide good kings to rule with wisdom. However, in his thirst for secrets he arranged for two kings to battle, so that in the aftermath he could abscond with an ancient tome of power hidden beneath one of their thrones (Legacy Mythic item Details TBD). Putting personal gain over the death of thousands of innocents caused him to fall.

I'll be building him a hyper-intelligent roguish with some casting, but primary uses telekinesis.

I've got to work on the details, but everything will build off that concept.

Do you think that would have a chance of being included or do you need more?

MordredofFairy wrote:

@thunderbird: I think the game is supposed to START with our fall.

I understand your notion, as that of Harlequin would also make more sense as a gradual drift, but I think we'll need to get more details from GM regarding that.

Maybe? But every single other character appears to have an actual fall (and its conclusion) written out, while if you notice, I don't specifically go all the way there.

And Dread Lich isn't something I'd normally expect to be a "gradual drift"—it's very, extremely, intentionally undead in a manner that typically takes half a year of focused preparation. Unless the fall you're talking about the process of being recruited to a specific side?

Aye, all with you. It may also be GM's friend was wrong, but I am certain in the other thread it was stated that our first scene would detail our actual fall, with us ending up in our new playground.

The way I see it, I can work with both. It just depends on how I should flavor things. I can have been a faithful servant for a God of Death...in that case, simply being "Dread Lich"-y would not automatically mean I'm not part of "Team Gods", in many pantheons the God of Death was actually more of a "Neutral" player while still having custody over undead.

Or, the preferred variant, would be to have fallen over time, with said lich-i-ness coming as part of that. Not as a "focused effort" over half a year, but more of a unconscious change over hundreds of years. As a "Herald of Death", I already had a way of coming back...but maybe I found that by binding myself to an anchor in the world, coming back would happen in a matter of days, rather than centuries...which could also explain absence of other heralds...but at the same time, binding my essence in this way severed a cosmic connection to my original employer, making me a freelancing being.

For all it matters, technically I could have been opposed to the gods to begin with, being a progeny of the apocalypse, and "possessed" an angel, fusing into him and corrupting him, assimilating him into my being.

There are literally tons of options to make my fall as fast or as slow as is needed by the prolog. One reason I have not filled out a backstory yet.

cool, I'll go for Eldritch anyway. As at least one of my templates.

I'm super tempted to make my character gargantuan. I already have change shape to a medium/small humanoid form. Maybe I can ask for a fiendish power to be any size medium up to my maximum.

The following is a VERY VERY VERYYY rough draft of my will be submission. She has two primary focuses- Enchantment/compulsion/Manipulation, with some decent hitting power in melee(and plenty of spells!). I have about half of the crunch done I think. I am unsure if that is done perfectly sadly.

Domain: Charm (sub domain Love)

I thought the pounce evolution was only available to quadrupeds?

I thought the pounce evolution was only available to quadrupeds?

that's true, but I wasn't sure if the GM was enforcing all of the requirements. If he does Its a simple swap, and a easy work around for me :3. I just had a point left over and it was the best bang for buck laying around.

As befits her nature, Sariel was definitely a sort of slow fall over time - a few thousand years in which she grew increasingly disillusioned with the meaning of what she was doing. Ultimately, the first one she tempted was herself. XD

I am debating my fall as well. It was either gradual... or a sudden "realization", I am leaning towards the sudden one. Got plenty of Ideas with that....

Cronossuss (Johnny Panic) - Portfolio: Time, Domain: Time, Mighty Time Thief/Godling/Psion (I thought the Mighty template was banned, though?)

Where dos it say on here its band??

GM said on this thread.

You may also use levels from any side of the gestalt to acquire templates, with the calculation of (level=CR-1, mimunim of 1). These templates DO NOT grant any ability score bonuses and any DR, SR, AC, or similar bonuses from templates DO NOT STACK, with you only receiving the highest of any particular one that you possess.

and Then -> as long as it was on d20pfsrd its ok. Even 3pp stuff as long at its on there.

I did ask about templates and was told all was fine as long at it was on d20pfsrd, was I told wrong.

Not having mighty to uplift a idea Thematic PC is going to mess my whole build up, its also my ONLY template. I was working around it and mighty godling as the core idea of my PCs background and origin and its links to Time powers and there effects.

why would mighty be banned?

Instrument of the Gods is. And I could imagine the same is true for Eternal, although nobody asked about that.

Nobody said anything about Mighty AFAIK.

Ok... Quoting here about the level-up points...

My questions were:

GM's answer:

So, only Size alterations could make an attribute go under 12 or beyond 24.

Huh.
That's weird, and definitely hurts DC-casters.
There aren't even any size bonuses to mental stats, if I remember correctly.

Luckily, I'm a buff-caster, so I don't really care there.
But for those relying on saves?

Ok, I have a concept. As I can't use hero lab for the build I'm going to hold off on the mechanics until I'm accepted officially.

Zabkiel - "He who rules over Thrones"

Wizard/Telekineticist/Urban Ranger

His sacred duty before the fall was to watch over and guide good kings to rule with wisdom. However, in his thirst for secrets he arranged for two kings to battle, so that in the aftermath he could abscond with an ancient tome of power hidden beneath one of their thrones (Legacy Mythic item Details TBD). Putting personal gain over the death of thousands of innocents caused him to fall.

I'll be building him a hyper-intelligent roguish with some casting, but primary uses telekinesis.

I've got to work on the details, but everything will build off that concept.

Do you think that would have a chance of being included or do you need more?

I have two ideas for templates, though they're not mutually exclusive.

1) Quickling. Basically really really fast.

2) Quadrapedal creature, only instead of having an animal as his lower half he's fused to a Throne/Chair. As part of his punishment for his crimes. Effectively his lower half is an animated throne.

Edit: correction. Quadruped

Well, I can use my Hypnotic Stare to cause a penalty on Will saves, making it easier to affect people with my Mesmerist powers. XD I can also cast Persistent spells to make it much more likely I can affect them.

Or I can just start buffing people. Or punching things in the face. XD Sariel is meant to be useful regardless of her situation.

@Tiny Coffee Golem: Have you looked at the Thronefused template?

@Tiny Coffee Golem: Have you looked at the Thronefused template?

I have. that's where I got the idea. It's interesting, but I thought the bound travel thing was weird. Though, if I'm just flying around I guess it'd be fine.

Updated.

Huh.

That's weird, and definitely hurts DC-casters.
There aren't even any size bonuses to mental stats, if I remember correctly.

Luckily, I'm a buff-caster, so I don't really care there.
But for those relying on saves?

Yeah stick to the non DC stuff or find alternate means to pump it high. They do exist there's bound to be 3pp stuff to help.

Aye, it hurts a lot. I picked up both Spell Focus Feats and a Racial trait to increased the DC, but it simply seems too weak.

Seems everybody depending on saves who is not boosting them via template(e.g. mighty) will get shafted.
10(base)+7(spell level)+7(attribute)+1(Spell Focus)+1(Greater Spell Focus)+1(Racial)=27 is the best I could reach.

26 due to template lowering my max spell level to 6.
Half of the people here would not really be afraid of failing that save. So I suppose whatever we are up against will heartily laugh at my face.

So, I do hope to remedy that with forcing them to make a large number of saves per turn. Hopefully, they will eventually fail.

TCG, good to see you here.

Casters, maybe you could ask GM to let you use age categories to boost your mental stats?

I can't feel too bad for you all though, I'm using all my resources to get my stats up to 20ish because my classes use them all.

Str to hit and dmg
Dex for AC
Con to live as a melee
Int for class DCs and uses/day
Wis for class uses/day and spells/day
Cha for needed social skills and channel uses/day

There are definitely ways around it. XD My advice is trying to build a character that can get around an opponent's defenses and always attack their weak spots. If they have Damage Reduction, use magic. If they have Spell Resistance, use physical blows or Supernatural powers. If they have high-saves, use stuff that doesn't rely on saves. And so on.

Every creature has a weakness somewhere, and versatility really helps in games like this. ^^

TCG, good to see you here.

Casters, maybe you could ask GM to let you use age categories to boost your mental stats?

I can't feel too bad for you all though, I'm using all my resources to get my stats up to 20ish because my classes use them all.

Str to hit and dmg
Dex for AC
Con to live as a melee
Int for class DCs and uses/day
Wis for class uses/day and spells/day
Cha for needed social skills and channel uses/day

*hat tip*

Outsiders are immortal, correct? As such do we even have age categories?

I'm working on my character as well The Fallen

Here's what is messed up about such a low cap to mental stats: at our level, one could(and many have) bought Huge size via Evolution points. That's +16 to Str. Add that onto the base 24 and you get 40, without any other increases.

Now be an Eldritch Godling, choosing Str as your casting stat and have better spells than a Wizard. Toss on Fighter for best BAB and feats and another solid base class and you pretty much 'win' and that's not even counting your RPs, Fiendish Powers, Legendary items and innate stuff....

after looking over some others... I may change some of my racial abilities around.

Oooooooor we could deliberately try to avoid breaking the system and instead accept that our GM has signaled a desire for us to at least attempt to stay reasonable. XD I, for one, am trying to -avoid- deliberately breaking the game or going to absurd levels.

Well, psionic powers often let you boost the saves by spending PP, up to your character level. So, it's expensive, but you can cast most spells as if they were the equivalent of 7th level spells.

Luckily my main attack is not based on a save.