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Anyone else read the new Polygon article that came out today about Battlecry! and the Jotunborn with our first looks at the Battlecry cover and Kent Hamilton concept art and notes on the Jotunborn ancestry? Thoughts, opinions...? I like it. It looks really cool. It also confirms that we are getting a war between Andor and Cheliax!
You can find the article here
I'm excited about it! Guardian and Commander both looked like really solid options with a lot of fun potential in the playtest; people have been clamoring for some kind of Giantkin/Goliath-equivalent for a while, and the Jotunborn seem like a fun and imaginative take on that that doesn't just rehash existing lore; mass combat rules could expand a lot of games in fun ways; and it comes out around my birthday!
On top of that, big changes to the setting in the works, an Orc Iconic finally, and it'll tie in with another novel!
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They look like big blue gorillas. They're illustrated as being so top heavy that I'm having a hard time taking them seriously.
They also remind me a bit of the Sontarans from Dr. Who.
The whole "they're from the multiverse" angle is so overdone in media today that I consider it lazy writing.
Nevertheless, I'm stoked at finally getting a giant ancestry. I also like that the developers chose to go with something unique and fresh, rather than hill giant, half ogre spawn, terrain giant, or what have you.
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Lost Omens Hellknights seems closer now, exciting!
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I like that we're finally getting official half-giants, but at least in my home games I'll have to weigh them against Battlezoo's excellent Giant ancestries to see if they're worth including.
I do think they look slightly comical, but there's much weirder things in Golarion so it doesn't bother me too much.
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They look like big blue gorillas. They're illustrated as being so top heavy that I'm having a hard time taking them seriously.
Yes, I agree. As presented, I'll likely toss them in the pile of ancestries I never play as I don't like the look of them. The overly long arms and neck and the exaggerated trapezius muscles make it look like a cross between an ape, a giraffe and a body builder. Add the forehead jutting out as far as the nose does and it's a big no for me. If the plan was for a giant race that differed from anything 5e has, it did that at least.
I like that we're finally getting official half-giants, but at least in my home games I'll have to weigh them against Battlezoo's excellent Giant ancestries to see if they're worth including.
Yeah, I think if I wanted a giant, I'd go Battlezoo.
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I don't think Jotunborn are the worst. There's a lot I like about the concept and design. However, I do agree that if "alternate plane of existence" is a rehash of the Dragonborn Abeir/Toril thing instead of say, coming from an existing plane in the Pathfinder lore, then I would rather they took another approach.
I am not a fan of the -born suffix since it got overused.
I think their physiology being so focused on making a large creature make biological sense is a bit of a mistake when actual giants don't have those conceits. It really makes them look unrelated to giants, so it's hard to accept them as the giant-kin ancestry I was hoping for.
I wanted a Cloud Giant offspring with a Hercules-esque story. What I'm getting is a brand new ancestry with vastly different visual language from what I'd expect, and that I'm unlikely to really embrace. I'd either reskin or go with Battlezoo for all the stories I want to tell with a Giant-kin type character.
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Do we need a separate thread for speculating on who will take each side in the Andoran-Cheliax War?
I do think they look slightly comical, but there's much weirder things in Golarion so it doesn't bother me too much.
Everyone looks slightly comical when standing around naked.
The art in which they're wearing armor and standing behind other creatures (which hides their stunted, elephantine legs) makes them look much cooler.
In Norse mythology, frost giants come from another realm.
Jotunborn look like a similar case.
If they also are part of the Inner Seas, I could see them adapting to different trueblood giant tribes.
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I'm curious if the jotunborn actually have squat legs or if it was a perspective snafu/ sacrifice to fit the character in the desired cover art at an appropriate distance. Regardless, they look really cool! I love the tree stump neck and inscribed skin; seeing the jotunborn actually inspired me with a runesmith PC idea (something I couldn't really imagine ever since the playtest dropped). They have that unique visual quality that I love about golarian goblins and kobolds.
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I'm curious if the jotunborn actually have squat legs or if it was a perspective snafu/ sacrifice to fit the character in the desired cover art at an appropriate distance.
The non-cover art in the article show the same legs, so I think it's intended.
I'm curious if the jotunborn actually have squat legs or if it was a perspective snafu/ sacrifice to fit the character in the desired cover art at an appropriate distance.The non-cover art in the article show the same legs, so I think it's intended.
Oh, I missed that! Looks regular enough to me; I thought that cover giant was missing knees. The nature sketch further down looks much better proportion wise.
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In Norse mythology, frost giants come from another realm.
Jotunborn look like a similar case.
If they also are part of the Inner Seas, I could see them adapting to different trueblood giant tribes.
I mean, in norse mythology everyone except humans come from a different realm because that's how the structure of their cosmology works. Its also not like these jotunblood seem to be inspired in Norse jotun that much besides the name, so I think its likely they just come from the giant realm in one of the upper planes that someone mentioned in other post.
I can't for the life of me imagine not playing a TTRPG ancestry because of details you don't like in the art. I've never felt that beholden to one specific artist's interpretation.
Oh it wasn't stopping me at all. Just more mildly curious if the jotun on the cover has legs like Cotton from King of the Hill.
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I can't for the life of me imagine not playing a TTRPG ancestry because of details you don't like in the art. I've never felt that beholden to one specific artist's interpretation.
And for myself, I wouldn't expect to be able to alter the canon representation of an ancestry to suit my tastes at whatever table I happen to sit at. If I'm advocating for changes, I have better hills to fight on. For example, if a jotunborn NPC shows up in an adventure, I'd expect a similar look to what we already have and not what I'd rather they look like.
I can't for the life of me imagine not playing a TTRPG ancestry because of details you don't like in the art. I've never felt that beholden to one specific artist's interpretation.Oh it wasn't stopping me at all. Just more mildly curious if the jotun on the cover has legs like Cotton from King of the Hill.
I think it was directed at me. The ancestry would REALLY have to have something compelling for me to play them with a look that unappealing to me.
I can't for the life of me imagine not playing a TTRPG ancestry because of details you don't like in the art. I've never felt that beholden to one specific artist's interpretation.
People are very different on this. I'm like you. I'm playing a Hobgoblin in Shattered Star right now and my character doesn't exactly resemble a standard Hobgoblin. I'm pretty happy with what I came up with.
My best friend, on the other hand, is highly into the official art and ancestries having a "canonical" look so that while the details vary, you know when you see one what ancestry it is. He reacts on an emotional level with art that he likes, and with art that he doesn't. So it colors his view of the ancestry a great deal.
There's no right or wrong there, its just how humans react to art. :)
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OMG. I totally missed the second sketch image with the outfits.
Totally rad! Loving the cultural style, and even the makeshift human battle suit.
A sword made of three greatswords!? A boulder maul with numerous flail attachments!?
My goodness these guys are oozing unique!
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I can't for the life of me imagine not playing a TTRPG ancestry because of details you don't like in the art. I've never felt that beholden to one specific artist's interpretation.
Often one artist is tasked with creating a “design template” for other artists to follow. There will always be leeway for each artist’s particular style and approach, but they tend to stick to the design template. Paizo goblins have a head shaped like a football. That’s pretty ingrained. Kent Hamilton’s design for the jotunborn seems like a pretty solidly…solidified and coded approach to what they look like.
To me they look like the aliens from Prometheus in the Aliens franchise, only somewhat majorly weirded out in the neck and shoulders….and legs….and head. I definitely am turned off by it. So it makes me completely not interested in playing one from an aesthetic starting point. I get a lot of mileage out of aesthetics, so….I guess I can’t imagine playing a TTRPG ancestry that I find unappealing. Not that Kent hasn’t done an amazing job - I always find his sketch pages thoughtful, inspired and creative.
Having said all that, I do like the arthropod companions creatures and the use of shell and silk. It is definitely an interesting take on the current iteration of the age old fad of “monster parts” that everyone from Battlezoo to Kobold Press are jumping on lately.
I also imagine that if the “alternate dimension” isn’t detailed clearly it on the one hand gives players a lot of room to create their own narrative but that precise lack of clear detail could lead to some quite jarring table variation in that narrative. Also not sure how I feel about alternate dimension as a stand in for “super exotic way out planar space”. I’ve always felt a tension between “dimensions” and “planes of existence” and the conflation of the two.
[EDIT - the article actually doesn’t say “alternate dimension” but “alternate plane of existence”, but my general point still stands. Could be a mistranslation by the author also…]
The only thing I really want for a giant race is actual massive size and strength - reach, Strength bonuses and ability to smash objects and throw smaller creatures. Offset by the problems of fitting into regular corridors, and being flanked by just about everyone in the room.
They also remind me a bit of the Sontarans from Dr. Who.
Oh so that's how Golarion got fire arms
no, Golarion got fire arms from humanoid fire elementalsThey also remind me a bit of the Sontarans from Dr. Who.Oh so that's how Golarion got fire arms
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At the risk of also having to explain the joke, I think Roadlocator was talking about the difference between firearms and fire arms.