
SodiumTelluride |
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If Golarion is now a world where being called a half-elf or a half-orc is (at best) a cultural faux pas or (at worst) a racial slur, and people with mixed ancestry are so culturally ingrained that they instead have their own unique names... then why are halflings still called halflings?
I mean, there are plenty of small races; surely someone of that heritage would bristle at the notion that they're only half-of-a-human? At least no less than someone with exactly one human parent would?

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The true name of those everyone calls halflings is taboo.
The halfling survivors of the first meetings with other ancestries described how its utterance drove those into unstoppable fits of murderous rage for reasons they could not fathom.
It was as if the whole of reality hated their very name.
So they forever banned their true name from being ever uttered.
Even though they always wondered what could be so wrong about

Perpdepog |
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Most likely, Halflings just don't care what other ancestries call them, and don't really feel the need for a term to refer to themselves other than 'us'...
After all, why make things more complicated than they absolutely have to be?
I wanna say this is even the stated reason, somewhere, though I couldn't tell you where the source was. Maybe PF1E's Halflings of Golarion?

Mathmuse |
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Taja the Barbarian wrote:I wanna say this is even the stated reason, somewhere, though I couldn't tell you where the source was. Maybe PF1E's Halflings of Golarion?Most likely, Halflings just don't care what other ancestries call them, and don't really feel the need for a term to refer to themselves other than 'us'...
After all, why make things more complicated than they absolutely have to be?
I searched on the word "name" in Halfings of Golarion and did not find a direct statement about the name "halfling," but I found other indications that they don't want their own name for themselves.
halflings of Golarion
The most amazing feature of halflings may be that so many of their good features go unnoticed. When viewed objectively, halflings show themselves to be a courageous, intelligent, kind-hearted, loyal, and clever race. Yet for those whom they live among, halflings are forgettable, if useful, figures who keep to themselves and fade into the background.Halflings wouldn’t have it any other way. They know better than any what strengths and weaknesses their race possesses. They require no external validation, no immortality through song and legend. A halfling who blends in, a halfling whom others rely on and then forget about, a halfling who slips into the woodwork—this is a halfling who survives. Halflings are smaller, weaker, and slower than most races, and thus less able to defend themselves from physical threats. Their forgettable demeanor is their shield against a violent world. When halflings are seen as cheerful, harmless supporting figures instead of heroes, they become less likely targets.
Another section talks about halfling neighborhoods in human cities.
Human citizens are the ones who often name halfling districts, and halflings willingly adopt those names when speaking to non-halflings. As gnomes generally prefer living near halfling areas where appropriately sized buildings and goods can be found, many human cities refer to shared halfling and gnome districts as Little Town or some variant of the name.
Thus, it appears that halflings prefer indirect references to themselves rather than a clear name. Call them "halflings" or "shortfolk" or "quiet people."

Dragonchess Player |
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I believe the real world reason is that they've been "halflings" since TSR was sued by Tolkien Enterprises for using some Middle Earth names (ents [treants], hobbits [halflings], balrogs [Type VI demons/balors]).
Around the same time they had to pull the Cthulu and Elric references in the original Deities & Demigods because of a lawsuit by Chaosium...

Morhek |
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I imagine most halflings accept the name simply because it's so common, and given their long history of being enslaved, and enslavers usually having little interest in what their property call themselves, whatever "actual" name they have in their own language hasn't caught on among their neighbours.
Alternatively, perhaps halflings see having one name for their species as unacceptably reductive? We know that there are names for many halfling ethnicities, such as Jarics, Mihrinis, Song'o, Nearics, Uhlan, and the (perhaps ancestral) Othobans, they might simply not appreciate being lumped in together as if Jarics and Mihrinis were the same thing?

SodiumTelluride |
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I believe the real world reason is that they've been "halflings" since TSR was sued by Tolkien Enterprises for using some Middle Earth names (ents [treants], hobbits [halflings], balrogs [Type VI demons/balors]).
...and then decades later when Paizo decided half-elves and half-orcs needed their own ancestry names, for real-world non-fantasy reasons, I suspect they forgot about halflings.

Dragonchess Player |
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TBF, I think Paizo wanted to move away from the potential "half-breed"/"cross-breed"/"mongrel" slur with the half-elf and half-orc.
It also gave them the opportunity to make it clear that the versatile heritages are open for any ancestry. Instead of the "original" elf/human and human/orc assumption.

John Mechalas |
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It also gave them the opportunity to make it clear that the versatile heritages are open for any ancestry. Instead of the "original" elf/human and human/orc assumption.
This is the larger reason, IMHO. The implication that only humans could cross-breed was always a little rude. That, and it's unnecessarily reductive. People's ancestries are way more complicated than that, even in the real world.

PossibleCabbage |
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Like what makes a thing offensive in practice is not "it's etymological underpinnings" but "how it has been used historically." When you get something that's been used as an epithet against actual humans, you want to stay away from that sort of thing in your fun fantasy game you play with your friends.
Like it's not offensive to call a Labradoodle a crossbreed, but it is offensive to call a person that, in part because people are different from dogs.

Dragonchess Player |
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You can't even say the attitude was never part of the game: e.g., Tanis from the Dragonlance novels (granted, Hickman and Weis were basically highlighting that it was wrong).

Souls At War |
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Thread kind of reminds me of the issues people had with Bastards of Golarion, and to a lesser extent, Blood of the Beast.

WagnerSika |
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I'm not up with 2nd ed lore or rules, but what happened to all the half-orcs and half-elves that used to live on Golarion? Were they all wiped out by Tar-Baphon because he wanted to be the only one with hyphen? Half-horse and half-fish people are okay but half-elves are not? They were lucky not to have hyphen in their names, I guess.

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I'm not up with 2nd ed lore or rules, but what happened to all the half-orcs and half-elves that used to live on Golarion? Were they all wiped out by Tar-Baphon because he wanted to be the only one with hyphen? Half-horse and half-fish people are okay but half-elves are not? They were lucky not to have hyphen in their names, I guess.
Lore wise, it's just an official 'name change' in the Remaster, though it is noted that the old names are still commonly used. No one died or disappeared...
Mechanically, these two heritages were officially changed from 'human' heritages (You are a human with a few traits from your Elven or Orcish heritage) to 'versatile' heritages (you can be nearly any ancestry with additional Elven/Oricish heritage), which was previously suggested as a possibility in a sidebar but not an official rule.
2e's Half-Elf(Human Heritage) is now 2e Remastered's Aiuvarin(Versatile Heritage)
2e's Half-Orc(Human Heritage) is now 2e Remastered's Dromaar(Versatile Heritage)
Addendum: It should probably be noted that the major motivation behind the remaster was WotC's leaked (and later abandoned) changes to the Open Gaming License that could best be summarized as 'I Am Altering the Deal, Pray I Don’t Alter It Any Further...' that made being as distinct as possible from PF's D&D ancestry a legal/financial necessity: While the concept of 'half-breeds' (for lack of a better term) is pretty much as old as time, the specific 'half-orc' and 'half-elf' names were probably too tightly tied to D&D for comfort as they don't have a strong classic mythological basis like 'elf' and 'dwarf' do...

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Dragonchess Player wrote:"half-breed"/"cross-breed"/"mongrel" slur with the half-elf and half-orc.These "slurs" never even entered my mind.
Really? "cross-breed" is offensive??
Sounds like some folks need to relax if that was their actual fear.
I suggest you speak with some Japanese people with a gaijin parent. They are called Hafu (japanese pronunciation of Half, word used because of the post-war US influence).
AFAIK they do not enjoy being called that.

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Arkat wrote:Dragonchess Player wrote:"half-breed"/"cross-breed"/"mongrel" slur with the half-elf and half-orc.These "slurs" never even entered my mind.
Really? "cross-breed" is offensive??
Sounds like some folks need to relax if that was their actual fear.
I suggest you speak with some Japanese people with a gaijin parent. They are called Hafu (japanese pronunciation of Half, word used because of the post-war US influence).
AFAIK they do not enjoy being called that.
While terms like these may be technically neutral in nature, routine usage in a derisive, derogatory, demeaning, and/or insulting fashion will tend to give them a rather negative tone that will infect any other usage however it is actually intended.
While I can't really speak for Japanese of 'non-pure Japanese ethnicity' I can imagine the time spent on their childhood playgrounds could easily make them despise terminology like this for the rest of their lives (children can be so very cruel) before even considering how conformist Japanese society is supposed to be...

WagnerSika |
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Half-elves have been renamed Aiuvarin and turned into a versatile heritage that can applied to any ancestry, not just human.
Same with half-orcs, which are now called Dromaar.
Any ancestry, really?
So elves (and orcs) are some kind of alpha species that can interbreed with anything, including automatons, poppets and skeletons? Are they now some kind of supercharged fantasy versions of asari from Mass Effect?
NoxiousMiasma |
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Any ancestry, really?
So elves (and orcs) are some kind of alpha species that can interbreed with anything, including automatons, poppets and skeletons? Are they now some kind of supercharged fantasy versions of asari from Mass Effect?
Your GM is free to rule in favour of restricting mixed heritages to humanoids only, but I'm gonna be honest, putting a mixed heritage on a former-Humanoid ancestry like Skeleton or Automaton mostly seems like a fun way to flavour having originally been an elf or orc, without having to futz about with Adopted Ancestry. As for poppets, maybe you were made by and in the image of whichever ancestry you take?

Virellius |
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Veltharis wrote:Half-elves have been renamed Aiuvarin and turned into a versatile heritage that can applied to any ancestry, not just human.
Same with half-orcs, which are now called Dromaar.
Any ancestry, really?
So elves (and orcs) are some kind of alpha species that can interbreed with anything, including automatons, poppets and skeletons? Are they now some kind of supercharged fantasy versions of asari from Mass Effect?
Half-Orc Automaton is just an Automaton who was an Orc in life. Plus, there is a rule for making ANY heritage versatile, as it's implied anyone can reproduce with anyone. For the ancestries that don't reproduce, get creative. A cambion poppet could be how you make Chucky, for example.
I shouldn't need to explain what a skeleton with the half-orc heritage is. (Hint: almost all half-orcs have skeletons inside of them!)
Squark |
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Veltharis wrote:Half-elves have been renamed Aiuvarin and turned into a versatile heritage that can applied to any ancestry, not just human.
Same with half-orcs, which are now called Dromaar.
Any ancestry, really?
So elves (and orcs) are some kind of alpha species that can interbreed with anything, including automatons, poppets and skeletons? Are they now some kind of supercharged fantasy versions of asari from Mass Effect?
The sidebar for other hybrids remains, so you can play a gnome/dwarf with GM permission, orcish and elvish heritage just seems to be particularly common.
As for non-humanoids, by RAW, yes, an Aiuvarin poppet is legal. But given that an Aiuvarin Elf (a half-elf elf, that is) is legal by the same logic, I've been meaning to pester Paizo for some clarification on that in errata threads.

Phillip Gastone |

WagnerSika wrote:Your GM is free to rule in favour of restricting mixed heritages to humanoids only, but I'm gonna be honest, putting a mixed heritage on a former-Humanoid ancestry like Skeleton or Automaton mostly seems like a fun way to flavour having originally been an elf or orc, without having to futz about with Adopted Ancestry. As for poppets, maybe you were made by and in the image of whichever ancestry you take?Any ancestry, really?
So elves (and orcs) are some kind of alpha species that can interbreed with anything, including automatons, poppets and skeletons? Are they now some kind of supercharged fantasy versions of asari from Mass Effect?
Check out 'Horny Bard' on TVTropes for examples you might be interested in. even rocks get in on the action.

keftiu |
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I quite like how we know what Golarion's catfolk, ratfolk, lizardfolk, and hyenafolk call themselves - its smallfolk deserve the same! I'm grateful for how many named Halfling ethnicities we've gotten in PF2, though it's a little funny how few of them are detailed for the most popular bits of Avistan.