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There are good critiques to be made of Abadar and his clergy - just ask the Vidric people what they think of the Sargavan Abadarans who once walked among them - but he's generally Pretty Alright.
For all my many complaints about how Owlcat Games presents Pathfinder lore at times, one of my favorite things they've done involves a devout Abadaran early in WotR. You do a quest for this man, and upon its completion, do-gooders have an option to decline payment... which he vehemently refuses to even consider, as he sees fair pay for honest work to genuinely sacrosanct. *That's* a view of Abadar's faithful I imagine much of the Inner Sea gets to interact with.
Kinda funny considering Abadaran are usually depicted as caring more about their bottom line than people wellbeing, their priorities often being in alphabetical order.
1) Banks
2) Cities
3) CivilisationsI guess it depends a lot on how people see RL bankers.
Abadar has both evil worshippers and good worshippers. I guess they do not share the exact same values and priorities. But they all respect Abadar's creed.
George Bailey to Mr. Potter... Classic.
There are good critiques to be made of Abadar and his clergy - just ask the Vidric people what they think of the Sargavan Abadarans who once walked among them - but he's generally Pretty Alright.
For all my many complaints about how Owlcat Games presents Pathfinder lore at times, one of my favorite things they've done involves a devout Abadaran early in WotR. You do a quest for this man, and upon its completion, do-gooders have an option to decline payment... which he vehemently refuses to even consider, as he sees fair pay for honest work to genuinely sacrosanct. *That's* a view of Abadar's faithful I imagine much of the Inner Sea gets to interact with.
Kinda funny considering Abadaran are usually depicted as caring more about their bottom line than people wellbeing, their priorities often being in alphabetical order.
1) Banks
2) Cities
3) CivilisationsI guess it depends a lot on how people see RL bankers.
Abadar has both evil worshippers and good worshippers. I guess they do not share the exact same values and priorities. But they all respect Abadar's creed.
Banks wouldn't be of much use without "cities" and the people living in them, and settlements aren't of much use without inhabitants.
I don't mind some levels of avarice, as long as it isn't at some apocalyptic level.
Ok, so an interesting thing to consider: Whilst alignment is no longer a thing, this decision was planned prior to the remaster and by extension the removal of alignment, thus we can use that to help infer who is more likely to die. Currently, there's two deities of every alignment with the exceptions of LG and TN, who each had 3. Thus, is Paizo wanted to keep this "at least two deities of every alignment" thing, then we can infer the only possible deities to die are the ones either LG, TN, or whatever alignment Arazni would have been moved to after the event (I'm personally guessing she will - or would have I guess - gotten moved to TN, but it's impossible to know). Whilst looking from this perspective whilst not knowing what alignment Arazni would have ended up makes this hard to concretely guess things, it does mean that the LG and TN ones are the most likely to get the axe, whilst the deities of alignments which we can fairly confidently say Arazni probably won't end up sitting on (Namely LN, LE, and CE) are safe.
Of course, this is all requiring the assumption that Paizo does care about this symmetry, which we can't know for sure and thus this isn't conclusive. But it's definitely something you can keep in mind.
Ok, so an interesting thing to consider: Whilst alignment is no longer a thing, this decision was planned prior to the remaster and by extension the removal of alignment, thus we can use that to help infer who is more likely to die. Currently, there's two deities of every alignment with the exceptions of LG and TN, who each had 3. Thus, is Paizo wanted to keep this "at least two deities of every alignment" thing, then we can infer the only possible deities to die are the ones either LG, TN, or whatever alignment Arazni would have been moved to after the event (I'm personally guessing she will - or would have I guess - gotten moved to TN, but it's impossible to know). Whilst looking from this perspective whilst not knowing what alignment Arazni would have ended up makes this hard to concretely guess things, it does mean that the LG and TN ones are the most likely to get the axe, whilst the deities of alignments which we can fairly confidently say Arazni probably won't end up sitting on (Namely LN, LE, and CE) are safe.
Of course, this is all requiring the assumption that Paizo does care about this symmetry, which we can't know for sure and thus this isn't conclusive. But it's definitely something you can keep in mind.
This is actually one of the reasons why I consider Iomedae a possibility--or at least a non-impossibility. I don't think I would like very much if it were her given the potential Iomedae/Arazni tension going forward once Arazni becomes core, but I can't say she would be the last deity I'd want to lose.
For the same reason, Nethys.
As for what alignment Arazni (would have) ended up, unless the plot line that leads to her joining the Core 20 involves her deciding it's time to return to her old outlook of being unambiguously good and set aside all the hurt and trauma she's been through the past 1000 years, I would agree with Neutral. Especially since the idea of a fully recovered Arazni under this theory could put two of my favourite goddesses at risk....
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Arazni's followers can currently be CG, LN, N, CN, NE.
E and G cancel each other out.
We are left with 2 C to 1 L.
So CN is my bet.
Moreover, she is leaving evil behind little by little (like a reverse Lissala) but I do not see her go all the way to good either.
Did someone mentioned whether she will allow Unholy and Holy or something else ?
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I really wanted Pharasma to be the one to go.
She can be in your games if you want! I know at least one Infinite author has come up with something for that scenario. Side note, if someone DOES do this in their home game (Pharasma or whomever) let me know how it goes because I'm insanely curious.
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I really wanted Pharasma to be the one to go.She can be in your games if you want! I know at least one Infinite author has come up with something for that scenario. Side note, if someone DOES do this in their home game (Pharasma or whomever) let me know how it goes because I'm insanely curious.
One of the really cool things about the way y'all are handling this with the promotional blogs and everything is that any GM can very easily run with any one of these stories and make it into the seed for a whole campaign very easily.
Well, the Erastil story seems to have a grain of truth in it in that the conflict takes the shape of "something is hunting the gods" and not "the gods have drawn up battle lines to fight each other."
The Erastil one was the first one that could be generically applied to any deity, it's just something extremely dangerous that's lurking where it can't be observed and wants to eat godflesh. Since we know Erastil's not running afoul of it, it could be any other Deity who is finding something dangerous hidden in the dark.
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The Erastil one was the first one that could be generically applied to any deity, it's just something extremely dangerous that's lurking where it can't be observed and wants to eat godflesh. Since we know Erastil's not running afoul of it, it could be any other Deity who is finding something dangerous hidden in the dark.
I'd push back pretty hard on this reading. Erastil is the hunter who protects the home; this was a story about him becoming prey, everywhere becoming less safe without him, and his clergy going on a long hunt of their own to find the killer.
This prophecy is very tightly married to Erastil's themes.
So here's my current guess about the story in light of the Erastil one:
Zon-Kuthon is going to die, when the thing from the Dark Tapestry that has been incubating in Dou-Bral's body finally hatches (a la Alien.) The thing that emerges is already native to the darkness, is affiliated with the Dark Tapestry, and has a taste for Godflesh because it's been feasting on it for its entire existence. This harkens a whole "Gods of Golarion against the Dark Tapestry" kind of plot.
Lending credence to this sort of thing is the fact that the tie-in book is being written by Liane Mercel who's the author of almost all of the Nidal stuff. If you were going to tap someone to write a story about Zon-Kuthon's grisly end, it would be her.
Interesting that they thought about including a hint towards the Prismatic Ray god that's gonna be in these...But I'm glad they didn't, that was a good read.
We're now halfway through these prophecies.
I think Zon Kuthon will be involved, but won’t be the deity who dies. He might be it he one to do the killing though. I am really starting to believe Zon Kuthon is going to kill Sarenrae and Shelyn is going to have to forgive him as he begins a path to redemption.
I think Zon Kuthon will be involved, but won’t be the deity who dies. He might be it he one to do the killing though. I am really starting to believe Zon Kuthon is going to kill Sarenrae and Shelyn is going to have to forgive him as he begins a path to redemption.
I just think that the Zon-Kuthon story, whatever it is, is going to have to involve whatever horrible Dark Tapestry parasite that's inhabiting the vessel has to be excised somehow. Like you can't make peace with that guy when that's still going on.
So it pretty much either has to be "it hatches" or "it's excised."
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I know Paizo said that Arazni isn't replacing the portfolio of the dead god, but I did see the theory that it would be Lamashtu to die, so that Arazni can be the goddess of "monstrocities" instead, which I do think she'd be good for.
My current guess is now either Torag or Lamashtu. Given my track record, I expect them now to both be declared safe over the next two weeks.
Why go to the trouble of rewriting her Anathema for the Remaster if you're killing her right after?
Well, even if the theory is right Paizo still wouldn't be expecting everyone buying the core rule book to know or be aware of this in world event. Most people buying the game won't know about all of the supplemental projects, so the deities in the core rule book would still need to be playable as is even if one of them might be getting eliminated in an adventure later on.Why go to the trouble of rewriting her Anathema for the Remaster if you're killing her right after?I know Paizo said that Arazni isn't replacing the portfolio of the dead god, but I did see the theory that it would be Lamashtu to die, so that Arazni can be the goddess of "monstrocities" instead, which I do think she'd be good for.
My current guess is now either Torag or Lamashtu. Given my track record, I expect them now to both be declared safe over the next two weeks.
Also, some tables might use the prophecies presented as their War of Immortals home scenarios, or else make up their own if they want to kill one of the nine deities saved for the stream (unless we get prophecies for them as well).
Well, the Erastil story seems to have a grain of truth in it in that the conflict takes the shape of "something is hunting the gods" and not "the gods have drawn up battle lines to fight each other."
The Erastil one was the first one that could be generically applied to any deity, it's just something extremely dangerous that's lurking where it can't be observed and wants to eat godflesh. Since we know Erastil's not running afoul of it, it could be any other Deity who is finding something dangerous hidden in the dark.
This does make wonder if it will be a Golarion specific event or something on a larger scale.
This is actually one of the reasons why I consider Iomedae a possibility--or at least a non-impossibility. I don't think I would like very much if it were her given the potential Iomedae/Arazni tension going forward once Arazni becomes core, but I can't say she would be the last deity I'd want to lose.
Iomedae is/was the only female lawful deity among Inner Sea core
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I think Zon Kuthon will be involved, but won’t be the deity who dies. He might be it he one to do the killing though. I am really starting to believe Zon Kuthon is going to kill Sarenrae and Shelyn is going to have to forgive him as he begins a path to redemption.
While I would hate to see Paizo kill off Sarenrae, I could get behind this story if Zon Kuthon is actually redeemed and takes over the Redemption subdomain (PF 1E version) and the rest of Sarenrae's portfolio.
That would be a great sequence of events if done and told right.
I think Zon Kuthon will be involved, but won’t be the deity who dies. He might be it he one to do the killing though. I am really starting to believe Zon Kuthon is going to kill Sarenrae and Shelyn is going to have to forgive him as he begins a path to redemption.While I would hate to see Paizo kill off Sarenrae, I could get behind this story if Zon Kuthon is actually redeemed and takes over the Redemption subdomain (PF 1E version) and the rest of Sarenrae's portfolio.
That would be a great sequence of events if done and told right.
That is one possibility, but he could also not change very much and Shelyn and Nocticula could take most of the redemption angle stuff on themselves since it is already pretty much there. He could still become less evil without becoming good though. Like he could still be the god of pain and shadows without a focus on mutilation, and he could lose the anathema against providing comfort to those who suffer, changing it to something like "help others see the value in the experience of their suffering." It would kind of be cool and fitting if he took up healing as a domain in place of destruction. It really feels life a better fit and would put him in a more interesting place outside of the old alignment chart.
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That is one possibility, but he could also not change very much and Shelyn and Nocticula could take most of the redemption angle stuff on themselves since it is already pretty much there. He could still become less evil without becoming good though. Like he could still be the god of pain and shadows without a focus on mutilation, and he could lose the anathema against providing comfort to those who suffer, changing it to something like "help others see the value in the experience of their suffering." It would kind of be cool and fitting if he took up healing as a domain in place of destruction. It really feels life a better fit and would put him in a more interesting place outside of the old alignment chart.I think Zon Kuthon will be involved, but won’t be the deity who dies. He might be it he one to do the killing though. I am really starting to believe Zon Kuthon is going to kill Sarenrae and Shelyn is going to have to forgive him as he begins a path to redemption.While I would hate to see Paizo kill off Sarenrae, I could get behind this story if Zon Kuthon is actually redeemed and takes over the Redemption subdomain (PF 1E version) and the rest of Sarenrae's portfolio.
That would be a great sequence of events if done and told right.
Putting a positive spin on the BDSM god to help remove some of the 'bondage = evil' tropes would be VERY appreciated.
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I'm going to bed, and betting I wake up with Desna safe in the morning.
vibrating with anticipation
I am starting to wonder if the gods we are getting prophecies for are gods that are not going to be critically involved in the gods war? Or if they are going to be central to it?
I am starting to wonder if the gods we are getting prophecies for are gods that are not going to be critically involved in the gods war? Or if they are going to be central to it?
I feel like if you're writing "The War of Immortals" then you're going to want to rope as many deities in as you can, since you don't know what the players in any game are going to be. So if a player is a Cleric of Falayna or a Champion of Kazutal it would be nice if they had something specific to their characters going on. Sure, that's most likely something the GM builds in but if the writers do that job for some deities already, that's great.
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Looks like it was Nethys this time, that one was a popularish pick too. I for one appreciate that his survival was confirmed the same day that we got the remastered Archives.
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I'm going to bed, and betting I wake up with Desna safe in the morning.Alright, so what we do is, we keep keftiu asleep until Desna's blog gets released. Don your thickest, quietest socks, everyone.
I am told that I walk like a cat. I'm sure I've got a roll of tape around here somewhere...
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Your efforts to keep Desna alive have given me some very odd dreams theese last few nights.
While not necessarily a hint to the identity of our fallen god from the Core 20, Michael Sayre has shared something fascinating on Twitter: one of the other dead deities is one of his favorites, "relatively obscure and not particularly important to the broader canon of the game (though more important in some of my hombrews)."
I worry Sarkoris might have more to grieve soon.
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Your efforts to keep Desna alive have given me some very odd dreams theese last few nights.
While not necessarily a hint to the identity of our fallen god from the Core 20, Michael Sayre has shared something fascinating on Twitter: one of the other dead deities is one of his favorites, "relatively obscure and not particularly important to the broader canon of the game (though more important in some of my hombrews)."
I worry Sarkoris might have more to grieve soon.
Why Sarkoris ?
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Why Sarkoris ?Your efforts to keep Desna alive have given me some very odd dreams theese last few nights.
While not necessarily a hint to the identity of our fallen god from the Core 20, Michael Sayre has shared something fascinating on Twitter: one of the other dead deities is one of his favorites, "relatively obscure and not particularly important to the broader canon of the game (though more important in some of my hombrews)."
I worry Sarkoris might have more to grieve soon.
Michael Sayre's a big Sarkoris fan/has written a lot of their 2e material, and they have a lot of deities associated with the region who are comparatively small-fry enough to take some hits in a divine struggle.
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Michael Sayre's a big Sarkoris fan/has written a lot of their 2e material, and they have a lot of deities associated with the region who are comparatively small-fry enough to take some hits in a divine struggle.Why Sarkoris ?Your efforts to keep Desna alive have given me some very odd dreams theese last few nights.
While not necessarily a hint to the identity of our fallen god from the Core 20, Michael Sayre has shared something fascinating on Twitter: one of the other dead deities is one of his favorites, "relatively obscure and not particularly important to the broader canon of the game (though more important in some of my hombrews)."
I worry Sarkoris might have more to grieve soon.
Especially since we only just got some of them as true worshipable gods in 2e, while in 1e they left it vague as to whether they were even gods at all, or just various minor outsiders and summoner eidolons with delusions of grandeur.
I still wanna play a paladin or warpriest of Sturovenen from Clan Neverhome sometime, darnit!
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The Sarkoris gods also seem a lot closer to their worshipers. If something were to threaten their people, it would make sense that they would step up in defense. Doubly so to protect Sarkoris from yet another tragedy so soon after the Worldwound.
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The Sarkoris gods also seem a lot closer to their worshipers. If something were to threaten their people, it would make sense that they would step up in defense. Doubly so to protect Sarkoris from yet another tragedy so soon after the Worldwound.
Indeed.
My Paladin from the Wrath of the Righteous AP took the Divine Source Universal Path mythic ability three times (so 4 domains) and is a perfect quasi-deity for the Sarkoran Godcallers to invoke for aid against any enemy of Sarkoris, especially the demons still roaming the country.
Oh no!
Please Paizo...don't kill my character!!!
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The Sarkoris gods also seem a lot closer to their worshipers. If something were to threaten their people, it would make sense that they would step up in defense. Doubly so to protect Sarkoris from yet another tragedy so soon after the Worldwound.Indeed.
My Paladin from the Wrath of the Righteous AP took the Divine Source Universal Path mythic ability three times (so 4 domains) and is a perfect quasi-deity for the Sarkoran Godcallers to invoke for aid against any enemy of Sarkoris, especially the demons still roaming the country.
Oh no!
Please Paizo...don't kill my character!!!
As someone who's gunning for the same setup with their own WOTR character, I feel your pain!
It is fun to try to guess where on Golarion the gods war is going to take place. I imagine much of the corresponding AP will go to the planes, but certainly a lot of it will be fought on Golarion. It could be global, but that moves the story pretty decisively out of the hands of PCs. I mean, we also know that the PCs aren’t likely to directly kill the god, but the AP will be a pretty big point of entry for many players to the story and hopefully some of the NPCs and descriptive detail that doesn’t fit in a rules book.
So Sarkoris seems like one possibility. I am hoping Casmeron personally. I am thinking the Mwangi expanse as a no, unless some Sarenrae/sun god pantheon stuff enters the picture.
Mana Wastes could be a pretty crazy battlefield. Wonder if there could be incursions through the Vault/Oprak.
Any other notable planar bleed places that could be neat?
Maybe Treerazor kicks the whole thing off as he finally completes his ascension and drags someone screaming into Tanglebriar.
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It is fun to try to guess where on Golarion the gods war is going to take place. I imagine much of the corresponding AP will go to the planes, but certainly a lot of it will be fought on Golarion. It could be global, but that moves the story pretty decisively out of the hands of PCs. I mean, we also know that the PCs aren’t likely to directly kill the god, but the AP will be a pretty big point of entry for many players to the story and hopefully some of the NPCs and descriptive detail that doesn’t fit in a rules book.
So Sarkoris seems like one possibility. I am hoping Casmeron personally. I am thinking the Mwangi expanse as a no, unless some Sarenrae/sun god pantheon stuff enters the picture.
We also know it's all the PCs' fault, but then what isn't ?
another thing that is will be interesting to see. how will we players be involved?Some number of you will be almost directly responsible for stuff hitting the fan, courtesy of the Narrative team's contributions to this event. Some of you already have been involved in the opening skirmishes of this event and may not have realized it, yet.