Still wonder if that "feeds atheists to Groteus to weaken him" thing was ever declared non-cannon. Or the secret vault of mortal soul gems she's got stashed away. Again, just about every rule she imposes, she herself has broken the moment she thought that she has something to gain.
I wonder if James Jacobs can clear that up and any other issues you seem to have?
I'm fine with Pharasma being amoral and hurting mortals, that's the whole point of her character, "ends justify the means" and what not.
Things like hypocritically not granting an afterlife and feeding certain people to Groteus are (imo) there precisely so that even the most "but Phrasma is the good god" readers get second thoughts. And while I understand the worry about "going too far" in some ways with how it's very anti-atheist, that kind of "yikes" radar isn't really being triggered by this lore bit for me.
From every angle, I find the Groetus thing actually "well made." (in the micro! Macro it's a baaad idea)
Feeding Groetus atheists is a very dense example of Phar breaking her rules about sending souls to an afterlife, while her justifications are clearly spelled out in the same lore bit, to repel Groteus.
If anything, that lore bit actually gives Pharasma far too much leeway for people to assume good intentions for her other misdeeds.
.
I'm honestly way more intrigued by the Graveyard of Souls (which seems to be where Phar gets the anti-Groteus souls from).
That whole deal is one of the rare instances of Phar being arbitrary against her own self interest of the soul cycle. (Another being the empty daemon court*)
People excusing / downplaying the Graveyard are forgetting about the maelstrom and the cycle. By locking those souls up, she's adding to the spire's growth (bad thing), *and* preventing the mortals from getting recycled into new souls.
Pharasma is the kind of god willing to curse mortals with aging for more souls, yet she condemns the unpledged...
Have you read the 2e articles on Groetus at all, or are you just assuming the one book that made this claim was never contradicted?
He doesn't care about hastening or delaying the End Times, because they're going to happen anyway. He barely even communicates with his followers
And while the line "Groetus doesn't eat the souls of athiests" has never been printed, the base claim about Groetus being fed souls has never been repeated and doesn't fit with how he's ever been depicted in 2e, and I think most books in 1e outside of whichever one first made the claim.
On top of that, the Graveyard of Souls isn't the only option for athiest souls. Some train under Phlegyas and become psychopomps themselves, some find peace, some still go to an outer plane as a petitioner and some get reincarnated.
And even if it was the only option for athiests, the Graveyard of Souls is still an afterlife and the Boneyards is still part of the Outer Planes and the Cycle of Souls - the existance of which isn't a bad thing, anymore than Heaven and Hell existing is bad for the universe.
I agree that not every AP should have npcs that recur, but I do think that there should be more of them.
Extinction Curse has this weird thing where you're expected to constantly replace the acts in your circus because that's the only form of progression for npcs in those rules, even though none of the new npcs have much to them and the whole AP would have benefited if the core cast of the circus took centre stage more often.
Stolen Fate has a central base the party constantly returns to, but there's no people in it. There's not much reason to worry about it getting attacked or anything because there's nothing there to lose. If I ran it from scratch I'd place at leats one fortune telling npc there to be a constant presence.
I've always been happy about the golem changes - the conflation of Frankenstein's Monster with the Golem of Prague has always frustrated me about then monsters, especially since both Flesh Golems and Clay Golems were given extremely low int scores and couldn't actually play the part of the stories that inspired them.
(Yes I know D&D was drawing more from horror movie Frankenstein, but we can move past that now)
Supposedly there's going to be a supplemental god table released sometime soon, for gods that didn't make it into the book. Some subscribers got an old version of it with the main pdf.
There are so many evil demigods in the book, if you had to include the Velstracs you'd cut some of them instead of the new coatl gods. Probably the Infernal Dukes, since they aren't separate form the other demigods of Hell like qlippoths and demons are
Ok, I'm seeing lots of posts from people who are actually PLAYING psychics who seem to like their characters and lots of posts from people who don't like psychics but who do NOT seem to say that they are actually playing one (they may well have done so and haven't said that, of course).
So, my question is, for those of you who have actually played a psychic as your main class (NOT as an archetype) for, say, at least 2 levels, how many of you were satisfied with the class?
I'll start. I have and I was very satisfied with the experience. It contributed bunches to the group and was fun to play.
I've been playing a Silent Whisper/Gathered Lore psychic in Stolen Fate and while I've enjoyed it 95% of the time (mindless enemies strike off so many options, ugh), I wouldn't say the class is flawless as is.
It's been ages since I used either of my Unleash Psyche actions as they don't compare to the ability to spend low level spell slots on Force Barrage or dropping a 1 action Message in the second or third round of combat, and because I do my Recall Knowledge rolls on the first round, so my unleashed rounds do as much damage or control as possible.
Any fight that lasts long enough for me to become Stupefied is deeply frustrating, as there's a fair chance it ends before I can unleash my psyche again, or I have to choose between risking the loss of my most impactful spells or waiting and hoping we don't get penalised.
I really don't see why the Psyche actions are tied into the Unleash that gives me a huge damage boost. Unleash Psyche is like a Barbarian's Rage in that I want to use it every combat, but because I can't do it until turn two I have spend a round setting up, which isn't a consistently great feeling.
The goal might be to make them interesting, since they weren't widely worshipped or active in setting and this way they're a plot hook for an adventure dealing with demiplanes or an alien world or ancient mysteries or whatever actually happened to them.
On one hand I really like the idea of an adventure or AP about what happened after Age of Ashes, but on the other hand the parts of Stolen Fate that were a sequel to the Harrowing fell very flat for me, so I'd definitely prefer indirect sequels, or just whole new adventures.
I never want to have to try and explain why an npc I know nothing about like Barzillai Thrune is a big enough deal to show up twice in an AP without affecting the backstory again.
I do treat the three Runelord APs from 1e as indirect sequels here, so I'd be very happy to see something set nearby the Realm of the Mammoth Lords that starts at a higher level, or an adventure that starts in Hermea or Isger and can neatly fit in with characters being related to the PCsa from AoA, but new stories are probably better.
Actually, not even "morally gray." Within Norse culture of the time, Vikings were upstanding heroes.
Very true, but I'm sure the monks would not appreciate that distinction. One of those instances where there are certainly different definitions of honor.
Go raid one of the Chelaxian monasteries with the Sisterhood of the Golden Erinyes - vikings vs monks with spiked chains with the option to keep the plunder or give it back to the colonised afterwards.
Raid New Thassilon after Belimarius is rebuffed from invading the Linnrom Kings, or rob a ship carrying relics the Aspis Consotrium stole.
There's plenty of options for casual and moral military action along Avistan's western coast.
I'm tossing up between a Hobgoblin Animist, Half-Orc Exemplar and Dwarven Summoner for this AP, and those are just the frontrunners.
Before I saw Animist I was thinking a hobgoblin witch with the Devourer of Decay patron with a focus on survival and bugs, but now I'm thinking I could use Cantorys as one of the animist spirits.
Belkzen is almost definitely badlands and is where most orcs are from.
Looking at the climate map from the Travel Guide for other locations and I'm guessing there could be some badlands in Rahadoum, Katapesh, Geb and Osirion, but I don't know that much about the specifics of the biome.
I'm also a bit disappointed by how kobolds got off. I know you can make a nephilim kobold, or dragonblood kobold, or whatnot.
But I'm missing some "bridging" here. Maybe if there had been almost no kobold heritages at all and a giant sign saying "try looking at these versatile heritages, 90% of kobolds have a versatile heritage".
But that's still not that satisfying - I don't feel like kobolds get a really distinctive thing with those heritages either.
Maybe it would have been interesting to actually make special kobold heritages that embody a special version of existing versatile heritages? So a devil-bound kobold heritage for example, that was a bit like a nephilim heritage but fine-tuned for kobolds. So instead of redundant low-light/darkvision, you get something else. But after that, you do get access to the nephilim feat list.
I'd say give kobolds an ancestry feat like Lamashtu's Chosen for goblins or Cultural Adaptaility for Halflings, but restricted to versatile heritages.
You're such a good magic sponge that you kept soaking up the thaums even after hatching, letting you be a spellhorn and a nephilim.
It'll be really interesting to see an arcane academy of magic that's trying to rediscover Sarkorian traditions, considering they can be partly summed up as 'don't use arcane magic'.
If it weren't for the Magaambya excxisting I'd assume they focused on the overlap between primal and arcane, but maybe they're spirit focused? Or just all in on being anti-demon.
Setting aside that every version of the barbarian I've ever known has encouraged raging as early and often as possible to actually do cool stuff, it's certainly trended more towards the Hulk than Cuchulainn over time.
I wonder if Shelyn and Desna or Sarenae can have any deific children with each other or others? If they could, would they be Godlings or actual deities? Can the Gods even have children and if they can do the children retain some level of the spark of divinity of their divine parent?
Remember the dwarven pantheon is explicitly a family, with Torag being the father of many of the other gods in that pantheon, so yeah. Gods can have children, and those children can be full gods.
As to whether the Radiant Prism can have children or not, I don't know, but I'm inclined to say yeah. I mean, they're gods; why not? There are already methods biological, technological, and magical present in Golarion that allow people to overcome barriers to having children. I figure those barriers should be even flimsier for a literal god.
The entries for Torag's kids imply that him making them is slightly more literal than biological, but that could just be mythology. Between Torag's family, Zon-Kuthon and Shelyn, Erastil's kids and probably a few others there's a lot of evidence for gods being able to have kids.
Whether those kids are always gods or something else is way less clear.
My hope is that Norgorber is the one to die, all four aspects of him coming to life and tearing each other apart.
The Godwar ignited not by fury at his death but what his embodied aspects managed to do before they died - Blackfingers gives Arazni a poison that works on the undead and her warpath is that much more dangerous, Father Skinsaw runs wild on the streets of Axis and leaves everyone left pointing fingers, the Gray Master ruins a dozen divine schemes through what seems like brute force but leaves Thamir holding the debts of all those gods and the Reaper of Reputation starts selling the secrets of mighty to anyone and everyone.
I do find Lamashtu being left out of the Godsrain Prophecies to be compelling though. She's my actual bet.
The problem with being a monk deity devoted to self-improvement is that your followers just do their own thing honing their skills and training up... which means they just kinda... exist in insular enclaves pointedly not really intersecting with the rest of the setting most of the time.
Despite my own personal distaste for proselytizing, I think Irori's faith could seriously do with some more activist clergy, like... training farmers to defend themselves, serving as philosopher-teachers of communities or what have you... 'cause as they generally come off when they show up at all, they just seem kinda... there.
Alternatively mix in some Western Monk flavour and have the various monasteries be scribing out elaborate enlightened manuscripts with the fanciest possible calligraphy or be brewing really good beer or what have you to support themselves and inspire other people to improve themselves.
Cerununnos is very dramatic about how his dad Erastil doesn't approve of his torrid romance with Angradd, constantly going on about forbidden love, law vs chaos, elves vs dwarves.
Erastil is just disappointed that it's been almost a thousand years and his son is still refusing to talk to his partner about if he even wants to get married or not.
Cayden Cailean: The drunken adventurer god that's been around for way more than I ever remember. He's fun but I wish more emphasis was put on his adventures with other gods, whether its Trudd, the Prismatic Ray or someone like Irori. No adventurer is going to last long solo.
I would eat those stories up. CC hasn't really got much of a holy text, IIRC the whole thing is intended to fit on a plaque on a wall and boils down to "Don't be a dick," but if he had any sort of extended canon or a series of parables I could totally see them taking this form, like a cross between scripture, tavern tales, and Pathfinder Chronicles.
shepsquared wrote:
Erastil: God of the Hearth, Home and the Hunt, he mostly loses points for how little emphasis is put on his family. I feel like they should be as important to him as Torag's pantheon is to him.
Wait, has Erastil even got a family? I don't recall one now.
Yep - his wife is Jaidi, goddess of Agriculture who was a much bigger deal in Azlant, and two Empyreal Lords for kids - Halcamora goddess of parks, gardens and wine , and Cernunnos, god of wilderness and seasons.
They could be a neat little nature pantheon, especially if you give Cernunnos a boyfriend or something.
I always consider them for characters I build and plots I want to run
Desna: Awesome moth god that looks pretty cool in her various mortal guises, dreams and travel are always relevant and I like that we have lots of stories of ehr being active on the godly scale and the personal scale.
Iomedae: I'm a sucker for knight in shining armour themes and between the Knights of Lastwall and Wrath of the Righteous there's always a need for them. I like her as the Inheritor and youngest of the ascended, even if she gets a bad showing when she actually shows up.
A-tier:
Gods I love when a player brings them up or they fit the campaign
Cayden Cailean: The drunken adventurer god that's been around for way more than I ever remember. He's fun but I wish more emphasis was put on his adventures with other gods, whether its Trudd, the Prismatic Ray or someone like Irori. No adventurer is going to last long solo.
Gorum: He's admittedly a generic war god, but I'm bumping him up a tier due to him demanding un/holy sanctification. Him demanding his followers pick a side and fight is fun and useful and I've adopted a headcanon about him and dinosaurs from John Compton that's just perfect.
Saranrae: She's the basic good goddess of the sun with enough nuance to healing and redemption and a big enough role in the setting that she's fun to use.
B-tier:
Good deities to have for background even if I don't want to play as a follower of them.
Abadar: God of commerce and cities. I can't imagine playing a cleric of his, but he's solid for NPCs and minor gags.
Asmodeus: I don't love Asmodeus or Cheliax alone, but together they produce things like the Hellknights and Korvosa. A villain that's playing the long con as 'the reasonable one' is something I like.
Calistria: Elven stabby goddess who helps keep the setting sex positive. Not deep, but very fun.
Erastil: God of the Hearth, Home and the Hunt, he mostly loses points for how little emphasis is put on his family. I feel like they should be as important to him as Torag's pantheon is to him.
Irori: I headcanon that Golarion has Journey to the East instead of Journey to the West, where Irori and Gruhastha had to put up with Sun Wukong for a decade, and I love it. He's a decent little monk god and probably more interesting in the upcoming Tian Xia books. I love that he's catty about how people ascend to godhood.
Torag: Dwarf god. I like the Quest for Sky and all, but he's mostly up here for being a dwarf.
Zon-Kuthon: The edgy boy in charge of Nidal. I don't love the BDSM vibes I get from him and the velstracs since they're evil, but his ties to Shelyn and Nidal are solid tools for a GM.
C-tier:
Fine to exist, but not what I'd include as the Core 20 if I was in charge.
Nethys: Two-faced wizard god, he's got a good concept but he'd be better if he did more and wasn't just crazy.
Norgorber: 4 fold thief god, he'd be in B tier if not for Father Skinsaw. He'd be more useful for players as a more neutral figure asnd there's maybe a tad too much ambiguity to his lore.
Pharasma: Death, fate, neutrality. All very standard, all pretty dull. I like the spiral symbology and the psychopomps, but I can't give her that much credit for it.
Rovagug: Id call him the kaiju god but somehow none of his kids count. The actual equivalent to Echidna and Typhon for Golarion and still a threat despite being imprisoned.
Shelyn: I wouldn't get rid of her, but she's mostly cool because of Zon-Kuthon and the Prismatic Ray.
[spoiler=D-tier] These are deities which are mostly just boring or have serious flaws. I woudln't miss them if they were gone.
Gozreh: A nature god of duality should be cool, but Gozreh mostly sounds boring to me. IDK, I feel like I'm just waiting for a good hook here.
Lamashtu: The Mother of Monsters that didn't really have many notable kids compared to other gods in the setting and has some nasty themes that I don't want to explore.
F-tier:
I don't like them and don't want to use them. I'd actively consider replacing them.
Urgathoa: She just doesn't do anything for me as a player or GM. Undead plots in Golarion tend to be about powerful wizards that became undead and if I was crafting one it'd be far more about the mortal than any support Urgathoa sends their way.
And the gods I'd bring in to replace the more boring ones:
Mahathallah - Goddess of illusions and undead and the fallen student of Pharasma. Just having her active makes Urgathoa and Pharasma more interesting, but only C tier on her own.
Mother Vulture: Dualistic death and nature god, she just looks cool. B tier easy.
Pazuzu: Evil bird demon lord, he'd be a great full god to tempt and corrupt people. B tier if paired with Lamashtu more, C tier on his own.
That's distressing but also interesting. Could it be Dolok Darkfur or another of the eidolon-gods? Pulura the Shining Maiden? One of the spotlighted gods for 2e, Sturovenen, Alglenweis or the Stag Mother? Another god I don't remember?
Wait aren't some of those local names for some of the Core 20? Whether they are or not, that does give me some cool questions. If a deity dies in one form for a specific culture, would just that piece of them die or would the whole thing? What would happen if it wre the former?
A fun hypothetical if nothing else.
No, I'm pretty sure we haven't gotten any Sarkorian lore about them using different names for deities - the Mammoth Lords next door refer to Sarenrae as Sister Cinders and there is overlap in their culture so it'd make sense if they started doing so.
A god is a person in Pathfinder - if they get killed they die pretty much all at once. The only exception I can imagine in current lore is Norgorber and that'd probably be a reveal that he was 4 people in a trenchcoat the whole time.
That's distressing but also interesting. Could it be Dolok Darkfur or another of the eidolon-gods? Pulura the Shining Maiden? One of the spotlighted gods for 2e, Sturovenen, Alglenweis or the Stag Mother? Another god I don't remember?
Yeah, I would assume that in addition to one of the core 20 gods dying there's also going to be lots of other divine trauma, like multiple minor gods will die and some of the other ones will undergo things they would prefer not to have.
Like just because Cayden isn't going to die, it doesn't mean that he can't lose an eye or hand!
And new minor gods rising - I'm hoping for a goblin hero-god that's actually a goblin and not a barghest, an orc demigod that wouldn't have been considered CE, a godling adventurer, that sort of thing.
We don't have another deity for not-so-nice undead, necromancers, or hunger/gluttony in the Core 20, and she's the divine patron of the bad guy who ended Pathfinder 1e. I think Urgathoa's here to stay - Arazni needs someone to beef with!
I'm just not sure how much "villains" need to be served by the core 20 deities. Like if Norgober bought the farm, we wouldn't be saying "there's not a deity for poisoners or flensing-happy murder clowns in the core 20". If anything, things that aren't particularly socially acceptable can be associated with niche dieties.
I'm pretty sure Arazni can beef with anybody, but Iomedae seems like an obvious frenemy. I think Arazni's hatred of Urgathoa is probably too nuclear for them to coexist in any sense.
The Core 20 is more than just fodder for divine heroes, it's also the most obvious palette GMs have to draw from for bad guys. I'd be pretty distraught without a patron for thieves and poisoners in the main pantheon - and that's before thinking of all the poor Alchemists, Investigators, and Rogues who need a god, too!
i thoroughly disagree. We don't need a god of undead to have undead villains, nor do we need there to be a god of thieves and assassins. We especially don't need the god of undeath/assassins/political intrigue/vaudeville villainy to be one of the Core 20 gods.
The Runelords got 3 adventure paths devoted to them and they're connected not to the major god of magic Nethys but the minor goddess Lissala. Besmara wasn't needed for Skulls and Shackles, nor was Urgathoa needed for Tar-Baphon to get his hands on a superweapon.
As it is I just can't think of any major undead characters that are motivated by Urgathoa's teachings. Sure Tar-Baphon worships her, but he's best known for throwing down with Aroden and his ability to repeatedly come back from death and resume being the most dangerous villain on Avistan - and Urgathoa's involvement in that is a solid 'maybe she hid his soul cage'.
This is probably my most desired outcome, even if I'd bet on it being Nethys or Zon-Kuthon.
The most prominent undead in the setting are wizards or Arazni and the only place her faith is truly important is Geb. Her personal story is pretty cool, but she just doesn't seem to do anything that any other evil god couldn't do.
Is there someone that takes skilled though? The fact that it stays expert at max is more troublesome than a benefit IMO (or probably it is my inner ADHD that hates having 3 legendary 1 expert skill.
Yes.
That one extra skill at Expert could, for example, be used on Medicine to qualify for Continual Recovery and Ward Medic. Without impacting the three "core" skills that the character wants to increase to Legendary.
Say, a barbarian with Legendary proficiency in Acrobatics (Cat Fall, Kip Up), Athletics, and Intimidation...
It also lets you qualify for Magical Crafting if you want to do some downtime rune improvement without needing to fully invest in the Craft skill.
Int only granting Trained skills is only a real problem for Int main characters - getting an extra Trained skill is good at level 1, lame at level 10 and pointless at level 20.
I also think the deficiencies come from the available skill actions - Crafting it it's own system with ups and downs, Arcana doesn't get any use outside of Recall Knowledge form skill feats unlike Occultism and Religion, Society skill feats tend to be campaign specific and while Disturbing Knowledge is cool for Occultism it's way less universal than Demoralise or Bon Mot.
You're not making much sense. I will continue to ignore essences. They mean nothing to me. Designers decide what is in a spell list. The lists should be balanced so they are effective for a class using them without regard for roleplay reasoning.
Not even sure why you're making the idea essences seem like it's that important to PF2 working. They aren't. Main thing is making the lists balanced, interesting, and useful.
Essences are supposed to describe exactly that. It was originally supposed to be a balancing component that reduced some of the universality of casters, especially the wizard, for balance purposes. However it frequently came up that arcane kept getting spells added that don't fit specifically so the wizard could have them. If they stuck with this balancing principle much more strictly the arcane list would have even fewer spells than it does now
I hope we someday see what the spell lists would look like with strict dividing based on the essences they're meant to have. It'd be an interesting optional variant.
Found a typo on page 140 - Ferrumnestra has Detect Metal as a lv 1 spell in her cleric spells but Detect Metal is a cantrip that's already on the divine list.
I really want to see Shifter ported across to 2e basically because of this thread. Combat wildshape can easily cover a class rather than just being another option for druids.
The premise of this thread seems to be: classes that get a couple of weapons in a proficiency group really should just get all weapon proficiency in that group, it is only punishing them not to.
When in reality those are classes that shouldn’t have weapon proficiencies in that higher group, but get a couple as a bonus for predominantly legacy reasons that often tie to very specific and mechanical game space (wizards will really want to be holding a staff, we might as well let them swing it/ let’s give Bilbo sting).
I don’t terribly mind a small handful of limited bonus weapon proficiencies because it doesn’t really elevate the class for archetype options that require higher level proficiency and it keeps classes that are not supposed to be fighters but with slightly less accuracy from intruding on that space. But I’d rather lose that than see the game creep towards “ just give everyone every weapon proficiency because weapons are really just flavor, aren’t they?”
Why should wizards not have simple weapon proficiency when every other spellcaster does?
What benefit do they get over sorcerers, witches, bards and psychics for the lowered proficiency? They have the same spell, save and armour progression, number of spell slots is obviously balanced by other class features, it isn't determined by the primary ability...
The penalty is that someone wanting to play an unusual wizard that waves around a frying pan or joins an order like the Hellknight Signifers has to jump through a bunch of extra hoops but there's no commensurate payoff, nor is there really a power boost from investing in weapon proficiency.
Yes, wizards should have simple weapon proficiency. It's hard enough to qualify for Hellknight Signifer with armour proficiency, it's nonsensical that I have to spend even more general feats on weapons.
And I assume you get similar annoying chains when looking at other atypical archetype choices.
It is deeply frustrating to be left with the impression that evil deities interfere with Golarion's affairs more than the good gods do.
Urgathoa might genuinely be making Tar Baphon unkillable and the equivalent to that in various APs is what, Desna redeeming a succubus or the one time Iomedae talks to you in a dream in Wrath of the Righteous?
Rogue weapon proficiencies are the same as wizard proficiencies - a weird holdover from earlier editions that screws over anyone wanting to do a non-standard build.
That's not what the pantheon rules say about the setting and fails to explain one of the most notable pantheons in the setting, the Godclaw.
Pathfinder Fandom page wrote:
Although the God Claw venerates aspects of Abadar, Asmodeus, Iomedae, Irori, and Torag, it is unclear from which of these gods it draws its power; indeed, it is possible that its own convictions grant it divine strength. Clerical signifers and other religious members of the order have access to the Glory, Law, Protection, Strength, and War domains.
The Godclaw doesn't worship a pantheon. It worships several gods, and it's not entirely evident who grants them power, but it probably isn't all of them as a pantheon, since that's not what that word means.
shepsquared wrote:
Quote:
A pantheon is a group of related gods worshipped either individually or together. Most pantheons are associated with a specific ancestry or geopolitical region, but rarely, a pantheon consists of deities with overlapping areas of concern. Followers work to advance the shared interests of their pantheon, directing prayers to whichever god presides over their current activity or circumstance.
Pantheons don't form because of the gods telling their followers to worship them as a group. Pantheons form because people worship those gods as a group for whatever reason.
... You know, it never really occurred to me that someone could read that section proscriptively, instead of descriptively. If you read it proscriptively, and allow some generous leeway, I guess it could mean what you think it means. If you read it descriptively, it means what I'm telling you it means. For clues which might be more accurate, you might want to consider what the word "pantheon" actually means in a real-world cultural context.
Yes, the Olympian pantheon was associated with a culture and geopolitical region, but all its members also had a common origin, and were all governed by a central authority. The Norse pantheon(s) had...
Either pantheons are mostly a creation of the people that worship them, which is backed up by how they're described in the rules, or the Black Butterfly and Yog-Sothoth are all buddy-buddy because they're in the Cosmic Caravan together.
Plus the Godclaw is a pantheon according to rules and fluff and 1e has an NPC trying to get Zon-Kuthon added to it.
I am aware of what pantheons are irl and the D&D-esque depiction of most people being henotheists because of the rules has always bugged me, but that has nothing to do with what pantheons are on Golarion.
On the other hand, mixed worship of Dwarven and Elven gods could easily arise in and society of elves and dwarves that lived together long enough to produce a dwarf-blooded half-elf.
Say a group of Ilverani started building a shelter from Earthfall and ran into some dwarves that were well ahead of most of their kin. They work together to build a secret citadel that's utterly indistinguishable from a natural mountain and welcome a bunch of humans/halflings/orcs/whatever ancestry fits the location of the citadel into their walls when Earthfall actually happens.
A few centuries later they're preparing to emerge and an earthquake drops the citadel into a sinkhole, trapping them underground for a few centuries until they rejoin the world above having formed a unique society.
This is an anthropological view of how a belief system might emerge in a world like ours. In a world where gods are real and distinct things with wills of their own, two pantheons don't merge just because some people were cohabitating, and worship of this group as a pantheon probably wouldn't provide any special benefits unless those gods formally made that alliance for that express purpose.
That's not what the pantheon rules say about the setting and fails to explain one of the most notable pantheons in the setting, the Godclaw.
Quote:
A pantheon is a group of related gods worshipped either individually or together. Most pantheons are associated with a specific ancestry or geopolitical region, but rarely, a pantheon consists of deities with overlapping areas of concern. Followers work to advance the shared interests of their pantheon, directing prayers to whichever god presides over their current activity or circumstance.
Pantheons don't form because of the gods telling their followers to worship them as a group. Pantheons form because people worship those gods as a group for whatever reason.
On the other hand, mixed worship of Dwarven and Elven gods could easily arise in and society of elves and dwarves that lived together long enough to produce a dwarf-blooded half-elf.
Say a group of Ilverani started building a shelter from Earthfall and ran into some dwarves that were well ahead of most of their kin. They work together to build a secret citadel that's utterly indistinguishable from a natural mountain and welcome a bunch of humans/halflings/orcs/whatever ancestry fits the location of the citadel into their walls when Earthfall actually happens.
A few centuries later they're preparing to emerge and an earthquake drops the citadel into a sinkhole, trapping them underground for a few centuries until they rejoin the world above having formed a unique society.
Yuelral, Findeladlara, Torag and Trudd would make a good core based on building the citadel to protect people, add another god to represent them taking in orcs or whatever.
No reason why you can't say something about Findeladlara respecting Torag's craft or whatever.
Domains for the Pantheon:
Creation, Earth, Protection, Duty/Family/Whatever else fits.
I remember reading in Lost Omens Legends that she's effectively at war with one of the Linnorm Kingdoms (the one with a Warden?) but I don't think there was much mentioned about Irrisen and the other kingdoms because Belimarius is a much bigger problem for them.
The adventure path is about Aroden's deeds and legacy, so a worshiper of Iomedae or Milani would find a lot to work with. Gozreh has ties to the main plot and there's probably one or two other gods that would be relevant, but I've only read through the first two volumes so dar.
IMO kinteticist is a bad name because it makes me expect someone who's constantly using telekinesis to throw things at people, not throw elemental energy blasts around.
On the 13th of May I added the Pathfinder 2e Bestiary, the Age os Ashes Pawn Collection, the Bestiary Pawn Box and the Gamemastery Guide NPC Pawn collection to my sidecart.
On the 15th of May (I am in Australia, the email may have been sent on Thursday the 14th in America) I received the confirmation email for my order of the Pathfinder Bestiary 2 from my rulebook subscription (Order 23118848). When I looked at the order status today I saw that my order was shipped on the 14th and my sidecart hasn't been shipped with it.
Is there something wrong with my sidecart?
A seperate issue is that I can't remove an adventure path subscription from my shopping cart.
I'm definitely on the side of snake-people without legs, love the idea of venom as a bite or as a ranged attack, maybe the ability to grapple with your body instead of a free hand, that sort of thing.
