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I think the plane of earth is already pretty annoyed at the plane of metal for stealing all those ores from the earth. So if you're taking enough of an element from a plane that some some planar monitor notices, you might get a visit from something that wants to know exactly what you're doing.
This is also why the hyrodkineticist can't just decide to flood the entire planet. Somebody from the plane of Water is going to come knocking and ask "what do you think you are doing".
A lot of these sorts of things are signposts to the GM/player to shut down shenanigans/be prepared for the GM to shut down shenanigans.
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This is also why the hyrodkineticist can't just decide to flood the entire planet. Somebody from the plane of Water is going to come knocking and ask "what do you think you are doing".With air and water it's extremely simple: there are several constantly open gates to water plane and probably air too ( or at least they open and close all the time on their own). So everything comes to equilibrium all the time. Good luck trying to overwhelm them all, and there can be new ones too.
This prevents problems with jugs of endless water and so on too.
And we could always assume there are gates to earth (and metal) planes in depths of the earth too. Why do you think earthquakes happen?
BREAKING NEWS! This just in: Arcane researchers at the Magaambya Institute of Magical Learning have discovered that earthquakes and something they call "Plate Tectonics" is tied to the geopolitics of the Plane of Earth. More to follow at the 11th toll of the bell.
Since the core preview didn't have it, is the metal and wood elemental forms somewhere in the rage of elements book? I know I've seen both kineticist feat that lets you transform into them specifically (if they're your one element for the level 10 feat) as well as a couple of items but not what their stats actually are
Since the core preview didn't have it, is the metal and wood elemental forms somewhere in the rage of elements book? I know I've seen both kineticist feat that lets you transform into them specifically (if they're your one element for the level 10 feat) as well as a couple of items but not what their stats actually areYou could assume they won't make this complicated and just would use Elemental form spell results?
there's no metal in the elemental form spell details so even ignoring the feat and letting that go any element, the item that specifies metal only (curious teardrop in the metal section) it's a detail I would wanna know
The planes of wood and metal have only recently been discovered, so even if Kineticist isn't a rare class, there won't be many with access to those elements. Efficient production also requires a specific feat, since otherwise Basic Kinesis' bulk limits really get in the way.
I would love to see the Lumber Consortium scrambling to cling to its power, and forced to pivot to its more exotic types of wood.
As for stone, Wall of Stone was already available. Kineticist definitely has an advantage in being able to produce more than one-inch thick stone, but quarrying for granite might just not be as big of an industry.
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This is also why the hyrodkineticist can't just decide to flood the entire planet. Somebody from the plane of Water is going to come knocking and ask "what do you think you are doing".
A 19th level Hydrokineticist can use Usurp the Lunar Reins every round for 50ft x 50ft x 10ft of water. That's 187,000 gallons, but we'll round up to 2x10^5. Lake Michigan has 1.3x10^15 gallons. Even ignoring fatigue (which overflowing every round should absolutely trigger after ten minutes), there's 1.4*10^4 rounds in a day. So if a hydrokineticist convinced the GM to set their character to spend every round of every day, they'd still need 5x10^5 days to make a really big lake. That's over a millennium of basically ripping a supremely powerful Kineticist open to use them as a portal to the plane of water, and at the end you only have a nationally significant lake.
A kineticist being able to make infinite water is like lore skills being able to make infinite money. The GM doesn't really need to do anything to stop it from being broken.
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The planes of wood and metal have only recently been discovered, so even if Kineticist isn't a rare class, there won't be many with access to those elements.
Quite the contrary; it is entirely possible that people everywhere might spontaneously begin developing newfound powers over wood and metal because the planes of wood and metal have recently been released back into the cosmos.
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The planes of wood and metal have only recently been discovered, so even if Kineticist isn't a rare class, there won't be many with access to those elements.Quite the contrary; it is entirely possible that people everywhere might spontaneously begin developing newfound powers over wood and metal because the planes of wood and metal have recently been released back into the cosmos.
That is correct. The little preamble before the kineticist on the pdf does say that Kineticists of metal and wood began showing up recently in high numbers.
This is also why the hyrodkineticist can't just decide to flood the entire planet. Somebody from the plane of Water is going to come knocking and ask "what do you think you are doing".A 19th level Hydrokineticist can use Usurp the Lunar Reins every round for 50ft x 50ft x 10ft of water. That's 187,000 gallons, but we'll round up to 2x10^5. Lake Michigan has 1.3x10^15 gallons. Even ignoring fatigue (which overflowing every round should absolutely trigger after ten minutes), there's 1.4*10^4 rounds in a day. So if a hydrokineticist convinced the GM to set their character to spend every round of every day, they'd still need 5x10^5 days to make a really big lake. That's over a millennium of basically ripping a supremely powerful Kineticist open to use them as a portal to the plane of water, and at the end you only have a nationally significant lake.
A kineticist being able to make infinite water is like lore skills being able to make infinite money. The GM doesn't really need to do anything to stop it from being broken.
G%**$~n. Yeah. by my math it'd be ROUGHLY 13,200 YEARS of doing continuous usurp the lunar reigns without breaks in order to create lake michigan. Really puts some s!%@ in perspective.
That is correct. The little preamble before the kineticist on the pdf does say that Kineticists of metal and wood began showing up recently in high numbers.The planes of wood and metal have only recently been discovered, so even if Kineticist isn't a rare class, there won't be many with access to those elements.Quite the contrary; it is entirely possible that people everywhere might spontaneously begin developing newfound powers over wood and metal because the planes of wood and metal have recently been released back into the cosmos.
Well, P2E has been continuing Golarion's own story, canonizing the APs' outcomes and whatnot.
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That's why you get multiple kineticists, stitch them together, and perform a dark ritual to open a permanent living portal to the elemental planes.
Huh. "Technically still-living kineticist" really does make for a compelling morally inexcusable component for BBEG's horrific ritual/machine/abomination, now that you mention it.
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That's why you get multiple kineticists, stitch them together, and perform a dark ritual to open a permanent living portal to the elemental planes.Huh. "Technically still-living kineticist" really does make for a compelling morally inexcusable component for BBEG's horrific ritual/machine/abomination, now that you mention it.
"It is a remarkable branch of magic, really, even if the scholarly mages look down on it. Opening a gate to the elemental planes inside one's self... Completely unique in its advancement, you know. Occult and arcane magics require study and deepening one's knowledge, while divine and all other primal magics depend on deepening a connection with something greater. But the only thing holding these 'kineticists' back is the limits of what their bodies will tolerate. That is a limitation that I enable them to bypass. In a mere month, my techniques have a novice putting out the same amount of water that would normally take years of training to achieve, and for far longer than they might consider... sustainable.
Tell me, how many sacrifices would it take to entice a god to intervene? I only need a hundred, and this desert will be rich with water within a decade. A thousand, and it will only take a year."
That is correct. The little preamble before the kineticist on the pdf does say that Kineticists of metal and wood began showing up recently in high numbers.The planes of wood and metal have only recently been discovered, so even if Kineticist isn't a rare class, there won't be many with access to those elements.Quite the contrary; it is entirely possible that people everywhere might spontaneously begin developing newfound powers over wood and metal because the planes of wood and metal have recently been released back into the cosmos.
Thanks, then I'm incorrect about the current numbers. A recent adjustment, then. (I know wood kineticists were a thing before, but that was with different lore and also without the ability to actually make permanent lumber.)
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Making lumber is not the same as magically growing a tree in a short amount of time. There is an entire process and craft to making lumber that takes a lot longer than just cutting down a tree, including tasks like sealing the logs, how you make the cuts, bucking, drying the wood, and more. I would require any PC wanting to make a profit from this to utilize crafting to earn a living, and that isn’t even getting into storage, transport, finding customers, dealing with sales, merchant/craftsmen guild licenses, legal rights of who owns the land (and therefore the wood growing on it), local or regional politics with feudal lords, repercussions from the local wildlife/monster life, etc. If the PCs want to get into messing with my game world’s economy, then I will mess with them right back. So, in the end, I don’t think the ability to grow trees rapidly will affect the economy in my games terribly much at all.
A single kineticist can supply an entire lumbermill with an endless supply of trees right on their doorstep. Which would save a lot of labor in procuring them, and I'd imagine the kineticist would be well paid for it.
A good way to make a living, but probably not terribly economy warping unless you've got a lot of kineticists around. ...or you start being able to build lumbermills right at the shipyards since you can just have the trees plopped down in front of it and save tons on transportation. That's probably the biggest game changer.
And a water kineticist could supply the water for a water wheel and draw out the water from the wood to make the lumber usable instantly or boil water for a steam driven saw.
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It's up to the pyrokineticists to start keeping the massive influx of spontaneously appearing forests in check then!
Only YOU can prevent forests!
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It's up to the pyrokineticists to start keeping the massive influx of spontaneously appearing forests in check then!
Might as well make charcoal while you're at it and make bank.
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And a water kineticist could supply the water for a water wheel and draw out the water from the wood to make the lumber usable instantly or boil water for a steam driven saw.A single kineticist can supply an entire lumbermill with an endless supply of trees right on their doorstep. Which would save a lot of labor in procuring them, and I'd imagine the kineticist would be well paid for it.
A good way to make a living, but probably not terribly economy warping unless you've got a lot of kineticists around. ...or you start being able to build lumbermills right at the shipyards since you can just have the trees plopped down in front of it and save tons on transportation. That's probably the biggest game changer.
In the end, it's the GM's game, so do as you wish I guess.
Now, these kind of setting-shattering abilities are akin to the undead archetypes IMO. Just because these are a thing open to PCs does not make Golarion a setting full of non-Evil undeads.
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That's why you get multiple kineticists, stitch them together, and perform a dark ritual to open a permanent living portal to the elemental planes.Huh. "Technically still-living kineticist" really does make for a compelling morally inexcusable component for BBEG's horrific ritual/machine/abomination, now that you mention it."It is a remarkable branch of magic, really, even if the scholarly mages look down on it. Opening a gate to the elemental planes inside one's self... Completely unique in its advancement, you know. Occult and arcane magics require study and deepening one's knowledge, while divine and all other primal magics depend on deepening a connection with something greater. But the only thing holding these 'kineticists' back is the limits of what their bodies will tolerate. That is a limitation that I enable them to bypass. In a mere month, my techniques have a novice putting out the same amount of water that would normally take years of training to achieve, and for far longer than they might consider... sustainable.
Tell me, how many sacrifices would it take to entice a god to intervene? I only need a hundred, and this desert will be rich with water within a decade. A thousand, and it will only take a year."
Seeing the recent threads about casters, and specifically Wizards, lamenting their low blasting power, I could see a Wizard school developped to try to analyse and harness the power of Kineticists to make it available through spells (and especially cantrips) for those who are not blessed with direct access to the elemental planes.
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And a water kineticist could supply the water for a water wheel and draw out the water from the wood to make the lumber usable instantly or boil water for a steam driven saw.A single kineticist can supply an entire lumbermill with an endless supply of trees right on their doorstep. Which would save a lot of labor in procuring them, and I'd imagine the kineticist would be well paid for it.
A good way to make a living, but probably not terribly economy warping unless you've got a lot of kineticists around. ...or you start being able to build lumbermills right at the shipyards since you can just have the trees plopped down in front of it and save tons on transportation. That's probably the biggest game changer.
Now I imagine a hppy retired couple of a wood and a water kineticist running a lumber mill
Not to be rich, just to make enough to make a living somewhat comfortibly
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Does overflow go away before an ability or after? Do I get my aura bonus on overflow impulses I mean?
If you don't have your aura [hence getting the aura bonus], you couldn't use the ability because all impulses require an active aura.
A single kineticist can supply an entire lumbermill with an endless supply of trees right on their doorstep. Which would save a lot of labor in procuring them, and I'd imagine the kineticist would be well paid for it.
A good way to make a living, but probably not terribly economy warping unless you've got a lot of kineticists around. ...or you start being able to build lumbermills right at the shipyards since you can just have the trees plopped down in front of it and save tons on transportation. That's probably the biggest game changer.
The wood quality isn't graranteed in same way that happens to earth and metal kineticists that cannot grant the quality of gems and metalwork.
Only air and water kineticists that appear to grant the quality of their elements. A water kineticist can make some money in some desert cities and caravans (just like spellcasters with Create Water).
Does overflow go away before an ability or after? Do I get my aura bonus on overflow impulses I mean?If you don't have your aura [hence getting the aura bonus], you couldn't use the ability because all impulses require an active aura.That's not what I asked.
I repeat. When I use an overflow ability, is the aura expended PRIOR to damage dealt or AFTER damage dealt.
My understanding is that is after, once that Impulse cannot happen without the Aura. So your aura probably vanishes as soon as the immediate effect ends. If your aura ends first its becomes hard to justify that you are still able to create or control your Impulse.
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There's also the case that "lumber" requires very large trees. Protector Tree (as an example) can give you an unlimited supply of trees to play with, but they're medium trees. At best, you can trim one of them into a bow or staff, if you have the skill for it. They'd make decent kindling, maybe, if you dried them properly first. "Lumber", this is not.
Now, for reforestation efforts this is still fantastic because after you plant the things you can walk away and let them grow, but that's nto what your'e talking about here.
Is there a power I'm not paying attention to that lets a Wood Elementalist easily create permanent large trees? is there one prior to level 18?
Possibly base kinesis with proliferate.
I don't have my book in front of me right now, but I'm from what I recall, that would be stretching proliferate pretty darned hard. Like, that's "the GM is letting you get away with it because the GM has decided they want to let you get away with it" levels.
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Does overflow go away before an ability or after? Do I get my aura bonus on overflow impulses I mean?If you don't have your aura [hence getting the aura bonus], you couldn't use the ability because all impulses require an active aura.That's not what I asked.
I repeat. When I use an overflow ability, is the aura expended PRIOR to damage dealt or AFTER damage dealt.
How do you deal damage if you can't use the ability to deal the damage? It's all in the same activity and that same activity REQUIRES an active aura and that aura gives a bonus: it's all connected.
SO, yes I answered your question. Either you don't have an aura and can't use the ability [which includes damage] OR you CAN use it [which includes damage]. It's a package deal: The aura doesn't cut off mid-activity.
Well, base kinesis allows for any "normal use" of an element. Wood's "normal" use could probably be a living tree. Start as a sapling and use proliferate to make it bigger. Seems fine to me.
Edit: actually, proliferate does specifically suggest you can make small trees from twigs. Naturally, that would lead to making bigger trees from those small trees.
Doesn't proliferate have an areal limitation, though? And possibly a range limitation?
I'm not saying that you can't use it to make plants grow. I'm saying that I doubt that you can really get all the way up to the kind of trees that are efficient for use in lumber... or at minimum that it would require significant concerted effort over a not particularly trivial amount of time.
Like, sure, I wouldn't be all that surprised to discover that a Wood kineticist of moderate level could grow a decent-sized tree with significant effort, and then chop it down and use it as lumber. You might even be able to set up a somewhat oddly shaped lumber mill that was specifically designed to take advantage of that ability, and take advantage of the savings in transportation (and the ability to build permanent structures to get to the top of the tree safely and to guide it down, and the efficiencies that could be gained from the fact that the trees could be made largely uniform in size....) I'm still not convinced that proliferate alone can do that for you. (I'd have to re-read the actual text and think about it.) Even if that is possible, though, it's not like it's economy-breaking. If anything, growing your trees artisinally like this might wind up being somewhat inefficient, as compared to deforesting random chunks of nearby forest. The chopping would be easier and more efficient, but wild trees will do that growing for you if you wait long enough.
A stretch of the ability would probably be to produce an endless supply of food with it. Edible plant matter seems to be a part of the plane of wood but that does seem to be a bit out of what the power is expected to accomplish.
Yeah, but a level 1 feat will give that to you explicitly, and some healing on the side.
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I actually figured that doesn't count as real food since it says you only feel full for 10 minutes.
You're too full to eat another for 10 minutes. That's not at all the same thing as "and therefore it can't really sustain you".