Wait, am I reading Kinetic Weapon correctly that you get to choose a different trait/option every time you activate it
Like you can choose ranged/volley to blast someone who is 70'away, ranged /propulsive when they close to 40', Reach when they close to 10', and agile when they're adjacent?
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wait, am I reading Kinetic Weapon correctly that you get to choose a different trait/option every time you activate it
Like you can choose ranged/volley to blast someone who is 70'away, ranged /propulsive when they close to 40', Reach when they close to 10', and agile when they're adjacent?
It's a free action infusion so you have to do it before each blast meaning you can't use it and another infusion and also I think you can't use it with the blast granted as part of channel elements (not fully certain on that) but yeah you choose each time assuming you mean weapon infusion
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Fire might not want it because he wants to fight close up (the range doesn't matter) in his aura, and Versatile Blast to get cold damge to target weaknesses on fire resistant/immune stuff is probably more important.
Free channel blasts that don't qualify will also be the bulk used by builds that rely heavily on two action overflow impulses. They won't want it.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Looking at the document on the Kineticist, I think it is safe to say that a lot of the "this is a very complicated class" just comes from "this is a new class that is long (because unliike a spellcaster it can't put its special abilities elsewhere in the book)". Like, yeah it's got a few mechanics but at the very least if you stick to single gate, I feel it could be very beginner friendly (though with more elements the choice paralysis might start to be a bit much). Seems like Paizo delivered on their goal of that.
I'm not going to say that it's beginner-unfriendly. The chassis is very solid. It's hard to really ruin a Kineticist. If you walk in knowing very little about the game, wanting to make a kineticist that does X, and your X isn't too specific for the available options, then you're generally goign to be able to walk out with a Kineticist that does X in a fairly satisfying way. If you see an impulse that's Really Cool, you can build a functional kineticist that will do that Cool Thing for you.
At the same time, there's a lot of subtle interplay on the available powers and the available options and the little synergies and antisynergies and exactly what it's handing out and how to best make use of it. Truly maximizing kineticist effectiveness is going to require a significant amount of party optimization, board control, and personal character optimization.
The complexity isn't really mandatory... but it's certainly there.
What's the opinions on the new barbarian instinct? It seems kinda lame aside from just going for support with the kineticist multiclass thanks to the poor DC and attack rolls you'll have with impulses. Not really what I had in mind for a raging elementalist though.
For the new barbarian, just like archetype kineticists in general, the meat isn't in impulses that are attacking AC or saves. It's in all the rest of them. You deal your damage with standard Barbarian Smash, you pick up a good stance that works with what you do, and you grab utility stuff. Like... consider a round where you attack once and then drop a protector tree on yourself. For a barbarian on the front lines, that's not necessarily a bad round, especially if your aura is doing something helpful while you do. The built-in blast is basically useful as a ranged option until it isn't, but probably isn't worth investing in.
But yeah... it's effectively a utility/survivability instinct, rather than a particularly high-damage instinct. I admit that I probably wont' bother with it if only because I can't imagine settling for "barbarian with a side order of kineticist" when "actual kineticist" is right there.
Probably does better in FA games. Might be worth considering a grapple build, if you can get a good stance for it
Fire might not want it because he wants to fight close up (the range doesn't matter) in his aura, and Versatile Blast to get cold damge to target weaknesses on fire resistant/immune stuff is probably more important.
Free channel blasts that don't qualify will also be the bulk used by builds that rely heavily on two action overflow impulses. They won't want it.
Kinetic Weapon lets you swap to B/P/S as well... and it's useful close up too because going with "reach" or "thrown" lets you tack on the str damage even when they're not adjacent, and "agile"... well, that one pretty much sells itself. I'm not saying that it's an absolute must-have, but I'm having a hard time thinking of a kineticist who wouldn't at least find it *useful*.
Elemental instinct feels to me like just a bad idea to take if you're not going multiclass into kineticist which feels wrong
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Elemental instinct feels to me like just a bad idea to take if you're not going multiclass into kineticist which feels wrong
I think that part of the answer on Elemental Instinct is that there are a lot of people that it's just not for. If the bit about archetyping kineticist feels wrong to you? That just means you're one of them.
Looking at the document on the Kineticist, I think it is safe to say that a lot of the "this is a very complicated class" just comes from "this is a new class that is long (because unliike a spellcaster it can't put its special abilities elsewhere in the book)". Like, yeah it's got a few mechanics but at the very least if you stick to single gate, I feel it could be very beginner friendly (though with more elements the choice paralysis might start to be a bit much). Seems like Paizo delivered on their goal of that.I'm not going to say that it's beginner-unfriendly. The chassis is very solid. It's hard to really ruin a Kineticist. If you walk in knowing very little about the game, wanting to make a kineticist that does X, and your X isn't too specific for the available options, then you're generally goign to be able to walk out with a Kineticist that does X in a fairly satisfying way. If you see an impulse that's Really Cool, you can build a functional kineticist that will do that Cool Thing for you.
At the same time, there's a lot of subtle interplay on the available powers and the available options and the little synergies and antisynergies and exactly what it's handing out and how to best make use of it. Truly maximizing kineticist effectiveness is going to require a significant amount of party optimization, board control, and personal character optimization.
The complexity isn't really mandatory... but it's certainly there.
Oh yes, I undertand there's lots of depth / complexity. My post was more in reference as I saw a bunch of people describing the class as super complicated (most famously Nonat1s), what went against what I heard the previously stated design goal was (that being "less complicated than the previous classes getting made like Psychic or Thaum & by extention more beginner friendly, whilst still allowing for lots of depth"), so I've been waiting to see a good look at the class to see whether those statements were true or it was just "new mechanics / lots of options = super complicated" (which it seems like it was). Complex vs complicated, if you will.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So are all the auras stances?
Each element also has an aura junction, that are not stances but always on when you are channeled, that can be chosen if you concentrate on an existing element instead of branching out at given levels.
To further confuse things, Earth has a stance impulse that is personal and doesn’t have general aura effects.
Where do I ask about the lore from the book?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Where do I ask about the lore from the book?
This is explicitly an AMA thread about this book. So... here, I suppose.
Also, you seriously look like a Gortle.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
What's the opinions on the new barbarian instinct? It seems kinda lame aside from just going for support with the kineticist multiclass thanks to the poor DC and attack rolls you'll have with impulses. Not really what I had in mind for a raging elementalist though.
I think it's my new favorite barbarian subclass
Automatic protection from ranged while I fight in melee
A strong AOE
And the real power of the kineticist dedication imo is just the utility of having spell like abilities without having to exit rage
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So are all the auras stances?Each element also has an aura junction, that are not stances but always on when you are channeled, that can be chosen if you concentrate on an existing element instead of branching out at given levels.
To further confuse things, Earth has a stance impulse that is personal and doesn’t have general aura effects.
Earth has two stances that are personal and don't have general aura effects, if you include the tremorsense. Also Steam Knight is a Stance, and isn't a true aura effect.
Does it mention how the rest of the elemental lords were freed, by whom, and the repercussions for the planes and Golarian?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does it mention how the rest of the elemental lords were freed, by whom, and the repercussions for the planes and Golarian?
It doesn't say how or by who, though the implication was that it was all done by the Pathfinder's Society. It talks about how the return of the Elemental Lords caused the power shift that caused the Planes of Wood and Metal to return, and otherwise implies that tumultuous times are ahead.
Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?
Yep. Freeing them was a big part of what made those planes visible and available again.
Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?Yep. Freeing them was a big part of what made those planes visible and available again.
Who are they? What are their personalities? Is there two per wood and metal or are they singular lords?
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Who are they? What are their personalities? Is there two per wood and metal or are they singular lords?Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?Yep. Freeing them was a big part of what made those planes visible and available again.
Metal 1 (Ferrumnestra) - basically a Rust Monster in deity form. Doesn't care about what is going on, just keeps cleaning up and destroying what is no longer needed.
Metal 2 (Laudinmio) - Implied to be the first alchemist and highly intelligent. Though feels they are responsible for the downfall of the Metal plane and basically now sleeps all the time and wakes up occasionally in a confused state.
Wood 1 (Shumunue) - came to the wood plane and said "hey, we should make these plants and trees move like animals" and then proceeded to carve animals out of the trees and giving them consciousness.
Wood 2 (Verilorn) - a gardener really. Used to let things grow wild, but then bad things happened and they got depressed/angry and decided that everything had to be very orderly in order to prevent his people from being abused and so now is grouchy. Got in an argument with Shumunue eons ago and they are now not talking.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Who are they? What are their personalities? Is there two per wood and metal or are they singular lords?Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?Yep. Freeing them was a big part of what made those planes visible and available again.
Two per, Metal has Ferrumnestra and Laudinmo. Ferrumnestra: The Lady of Rust is a giant Rust Monster ore louse queen, running around causing decay and eating up the metal of the land; vaguely Nurgle in edicts and anathema. Laudinmo: Sovereign of Alchemy is a thing? obsessed with chemistry and invention, vague Tzeentch feels in edicts and anathema, has a giant lab called Castle Amalgam guarded by terrain and traps, all about the MAD SCIENCE and stuff! No sanctification for either, new metal domain for both. Laudinmo's divine weapon is alchemical bombs, which is really cool!
|
|
I know Summon spells are widely considered not great (I like them), but I'm wondering if this book as changed how the Summon Elemental spell stacks up to the other summon spells now. I know there are a lot of creatures with the "elemental" tag and wonder if that spell now has something else to offer. Has anybody looked at that yet?
I know Summon spells are widely considered not great (I like them), but I'm wondering if this book as changed how the Summon Elemental spell stacks up to the other summon spells now. I know there are a lot of creatures with the "elemental" tag and wonder if that spell now has something else to offer. Has anybody looked at that yet?
Well depending on how your GM interprets the summon rules, you could in theory summon a Troop now. I will definitely say that Summon Elemental just became a lot less useless at the very least. There's a lot of cool elementals with interesting abilities.
|
Two per, Metal has Ferrumnestra and Laudinmo. Ferrumnestra: The Lady of Rust is a giantWho are they? What are their personalities? Is there two per wood and metal or are they singular lords?Does the planes of wood or metal have elemental lords?Yep. Freeing them was a big part of what made those planes visible and available again.Rust Monsterore louse queen, running around causing decay and eating up the metal of the land; vaguely Nurgle in edicts and anathema. Laudinmo: Sovereign of Alchemy is a thing? obsessed with chemistry and invention, vague Tzeentch feels in edicts and anathema, has a giant lab called Castle Amalgam guarded by terrain and traps, all about the MAD SCIENCE and stuff! No sanctification for either, new metal domain for both. Laudinmo's divine weapon is alchemical bombs, which is really cool!
not a thing, just non-binary is how I read it.
I know Summon spells are widely considered not great (I like them), but I'm wondering if this book as changed how the Summon Elemental spell stacks up to the other summon spells now. I know there are a lot of creatures with the "elemental" tag and wonder if that spell now has something else to offer. Has anybody looked at that yet?Well depending on how your GM interprets the summon rules, you could in theory summon a Troop now. I will definitely say that Summon Elemental just became a lot less useless at the very least. There's a lot of cool elementals with interesting abilities.A troop is an organized collection of component creatures, typically Small or Medium in size, working as a cohesive whole. A troop is 16 squares in size and has two Hit Point thresholds in their HP entry, under which it reduces in size to 12 squares and then 8 squares. A troop has the Troop Defenses, Form Up, and Troop Movement abilities. Most troops have a weakness to area damage. Because they consist of multiple discrete creatures, they can't be summoned.
Yeah, which is why my "depending on how your GM interprets" comment was made.
Not RAW allowable, but I've seen GMs allow weirder things.
Hmm. Think the fire impulse junction can get you d10s with two element infusion with one of the d8 blasts + fire?
You need to use the two action blast, but I don't see anything else preventing that.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Gotcha. I was taking your word interpret to mean you thought there was some wiggle room in the rules, and I recall there not really being any outside the GM/table deciding that limitation wasn't for them and throwing it out.
Personally I'm inclined to let a player summon troops, the visual is very cool, but I may remove a troop's thresholds to damage where you can only deal a fourth of its HP in maximum damage at a time.
Otherwise it's basically a living Wall of X spell which becomes both very attractive and very good at slowing down play, meaning I'd be seeing it everywhere eventually.
Oh, totally valid and I should've been clearer. I know the PF1 summoning shenanigans were one of the reasons PF2 summoning/minions got nerfed so hard to avoid this exact trouble. I'd also probably let a player do so as well, but it'd certainly be troublesome if a PC just started clogging the field with troops.
Are kineticist impulses supposed to involve two different die sizes? Like Tremor does 1d8, but it's heighten is "the damage increases by 1d10".
So at level 9 are you rolling d8+4d10?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I think this probably was an error. Probably or the base damage is d10 or the heightening is d8.
But until we get an errata (or no) this is how the Tremor is currently working.
|
What does the kineticist multiclass archetype offer?Not a lot. I think you can only get the proficiency to expert, access to a second element is a 10th or 12th level feat, and the blast doesn't scale without investing feats in it. You can add up to three dice to it for up to three feats. You don't get the free stance/blast when you gather your aura.
So it's strictly utility, I think, if you want something like a water or wood healing ability at mid to high level. There me be some good utility 1st/2nd level feats.
do the impulses from the Archetype scale normally with your character level or is there a provision there slowing down their rate?
because if it's full scaling, there are already a lot of good revealed impulses that you can get even as early as level 1-2
its good for elemental barbarian particularly one going melee , they will hit about like a giant instinct with the option for slightly lighter ranged shots
Archetype impulses scales equals to half of your level.
Archetype impulses scales equals to half of your level.
Oooh. I'd missed that.
Makes sense, on a few different levels, but it really cuts down on the value of the elemental barb.
- Nothing that runs off of DC
- Nothing that depends heavily on level
- provides persistent utility
- nothing that depends on any junctions
- relatively low-level to start with
I mean, they *exist*, sure, but they're starting to get pretty thin on the ground, yeah?
Archetype impulses scales equals to half of your level.Oooh. I'd missed that.
Makes sense, on a few different levels, but it really cuts down on the value of the elemental barb.
- Nothing that runs off of DC
- Nothing that depends heavily on level
- provides persistent utility
- nothing that depends on any junctions
- relatively low-level to start withI mean, they *exist*, sure, but they're starting to get pretty thin on the ground, yeah?
make a wood element barbarian to get full scaling medium armor and on top of that you can angrily grow a citrus, bite in it and become more angrier (and healthier)
It still works kinda (does work better with dual classing)
make a wood element barbarian to get full scaling medium armor and on top of that you can angrily grow a citrus, bite in it and become more angrier (and healthier)
It still works kinda (does work better with dual classing)
Barbarian already gets medium armor.
Archetype impulses scales equals to half of your level.Oooh. I'd missed that.
Makes sense, on a few different levels, but it really cuts down on the value of the elemental barb.
- Nothing that runs off of DC
- Nothing that depends heavily on level
- provides persistent utility
- nothing that depends on any junctions
- relatively low-level to start withI mean, they *exist*, sure, but they're starting to get pretty thin on the ground, yeah?
Sorry shroudb is right I mixed the half-level requirement text with level heightening.
Barbarian already gets medium armor.make a wood element barbarian to get full scaling medium armor and on top of that you can angrily grow a citrus, bite in it and become more angrier (and healthier)
It still works kinda (does work better with dual classing)
You can get heavy armor and armor specialization with Armor in Earth.
Huh. Interestingly, the kineticist's ability to summon elementals scales better than normal summon spells. It goes up to level 16 creatures instead of 15. (It scales on character level so it's ahead on even levels starting at 8)That might be the new normal. I wouldn't be surprised if PF2E remaster realized how weak summon spells are so they bumped it up a level.
That would be awesome. Summon spells don't need much....just the smallest bump, really. Being one level higher might be all they need.
Dual class elemental barb/kineticist would be a sight to behold
The interesting question there is what the barbarian brings to the mix on that one.
- You can hit things real hard with a melee weapon. (you probably want to stay one-handed, though, so you have the other hand free for impulses)
- standard barbarian boost to HP, medium armor baked in, temp HP from rage
- It's harder to hit you with ranged weapons?
To me?
- Champion. Go some sort of earth/wood thing and run some tank with your tank. Stack some defenses and stickiness on your defenses and stickiness.
- Flames oracle. Obvious build is obvious. Go nuts with your high-level spell slots whenever you like, knowing that you have kineticist to fall back on. Actually walk your curse all the way down to the good stuff.
- Ranger. Kobold Ranger snarecrafter goes quite nicely with water/wind. Prep the field and then use that prep.
- Alchemist. Why yes, I would like to pour almost an entire character class into being an item dispenser. Why do you ask?