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I mean, I am also playing in edgewatch(not in any forum person's table so no clue what is going on in theirs) and enjoying it(despite difficulty spikes and weird assumptions), but I think its also sensible to admit that as written the Kobold Union thing is in pretty bad taste. Its basically legitimate union strike being over taken by psychotic wannabe warlord and thus escalated into knife point hostage situation more or less? The AP seems to assume in general that pcs deal non lethal damage, but at same time I think it leaves it up to gm to actually enforce that. Either way, we basically dealt with kobold union 99.99% peacefully because we asked for negotiation, they asked roughhouser kobold boss to come to front door to tell them what to do, she crit failed vs charm spell(after telling kobolds to open fire on us) so we talked her into surrendering after which kobolds left to join group of the more reasonable kobold leader after which we negotiated hostage situation over without really combat with strikers.
That and edgewatch as written does more or less incentive corruption (like even if we get beyond all people who try to bribe cops, there is no daily payment for work besides fines, so it means parties okay with taking all property from all shady business people get more money. Edgewatch is loot poor campaign and one reason why we have even less wealth than assumed is lack of corruption on our part)
Like, edgewatch is primarily written as cop action movie first, which means it tries to adapt the tropes. In other words, it tries to multiple time get PCs to situation where they have to make deals with criminals to proceed with main investigation which kinda annoyed half of our party so we are kinda derailing the campaign by being super goody two shoe cops :'D Don't take more fines than needed, de-escalate things peacefully whenever we can, tired of making questionable deals with criminals that kidnap and murder people so we don't make them and solved the one crime two days before the event(which book apparently assumed we would do it on same day as the event)
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At me? No, just at everyone who sometimes enjoys a game in a different way than you do. Horrible, harmful kobold-killers.
Anyway, I made my point. Keep being snarky and toxic, these boards surely have a lot to gain from that.
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I think if you want something to kill on sight for your without any great moral quandaries involved, a bad choice for this is something that's small, but clever, and industrious, and tries their hardest but are naturally cowardly- which is basically what kobolds are.
Like you could make a stronger case for Orcs, since Orcs culturally emphasize strength and demonstrating your strength through physical dominance over others. So "that orc is in your way, I'm going to get it out of your way" is a thing orcs inherently understand and respect your attempt.
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I'd like to petition kill on sight creatures to be changed to gnomes. Horrible abominations really. Can't trust em. They may look cute when they're making their comically large cookies and singing their jaunty melodies but they're hiding something.
Especially those Garden Gnomes! Those are some seriously shady critters!!
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I think if you want something to kill on sight for your without any great moral quandaries involved, a bad choice for this is something that's small, but clever, and industrious, and tries their hardest but are naturally cowardly- which is basically what kobolds are.
Like you could make a stronger case for Orcs, since Orcs culturally emphasize strength and demonstrating your strength through physical dominance over others. So "that orc is in your way, I'm going to get it out of your way" is a thing orcs inherently understand and respect your attempt.
Orcs kinda have different issue going on. Like original Tolkien orcs are kinda meant to be representation of imperialist empire invaders, but the fantasy genre turned them to "barbarian" stereotypes which lead to the "Wait a sec, why are they using real life stereotypes used to justify conquering people as traits of evil raiders" issue :'D Like if orcs were more closer to their original depiction, they would basically be rapid industrialists who conquer your land and then pollute it with factories.
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I'd like to petition kill on sight creatures to be changed to gnomes. Horrible abominations really. Can't trust em. They may look cute when they're making their comically large cookies and singing their jaunty melodies but they're hiding something.
So... what would it take?
Like, gnomes already have that thing were they kind of suffer from the loss of their connection with the First World. It's why they get all bleachy. What if that got worse? What if somethign in the fundamental balance of gnomes just broke, and the part of them that constantly needs to be fed with new excitement and new ideas became too great for any of them to reasonably sustain? Well, first you'd start to see more of them bleaching... and then they'd get scared. Many would, of course, fail - falling to depression and death. Some would do what they could to try to get back to the First World and reconnect to that original font, only to discover that the denizens there did not welcome them and their hunger. The battles that resulted would grow ugly, but the doors of the First World would remain shut to them. The rest - those that survived - would do so by throw themselves into seeking out new experiences with a sort of mad, desperate hunger, growing increasingly erratic, unpredictable, and dangerous to themselves and others... and that's where they'd find the horrible fix to their current issues. As some of them became sufficiently unhinged to follow logical paths like "New experiences? Well I haven't yet killed a man." they discovered that they could feed their hunger with... well, souls. Murder someone, and the Bleaching recedes, as you feed off of all of their collected experiences. Of course, it is possible to do it in more or less efficient ways. The more efficient ways tend to be slower and more horrible. It's even possible for multiple gnomes to partake of a single victim. Further experimentation determined that it was possible to stave things off to a lesser extent by torturing lesser animals to death, but for best effect, you'd want something intelligent... and it's not like peasants are all that hard to come by.
These days, any gnome that's reached adulthood can be assumed to have been involved in the horrible murder of at least a few people. The children might not have taken that step yet, but the vast majority of them eventually will. You can hate them or you can pity them, but for the sake of everyone else who is not a gnome, it's probably best to kill them. It's not like they don't return the favor.
Yes, whatever it was that broke them did also massively crank their breeding and physical maturation rates. Why do you ask?
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Orcs kinda have different issue going on. Like original Tolkien orcs are kinda meant to be representation of imperialist empire invaders, but the fantasy genre turned them to "barbarian" stereotypes which lead to the "Wait a sec, why are they using real life stereotypes used to justify conquering people as traits of evil raiders" issue :'D Like if orcs were more closer to their original depiction, they would basically be rapid industrialists who conquer your land and then pollute it with factories.I think if you want something to kill on sight for your without any great moral quandaries involved, a bad choice for this is something that's small, but clever, and industrious, and tries their hardest but are naturally cowardly- which is basically what kobolds are.
Like you could make a stronger case for Orcs, since Orcs culturally emphasize strength and demonstrating your strength through physical dominance over others. So "that orc is in your way, I'm going to get it out of your way" is a thing orcs inherently understand and respect your attempt.
To say nothing of the fact that every RPG from the beginning has basically ignored the "orcs are elves corrupted by evil through torture and stuff" as Tolkien originated them. The only real relic of it is that orcs and elves were the only ancestries that could intermingle with humans resulting in half-orcs and half-elves. And frankly I think leaving that aspect in the past was the right idea, as it carries really iffy assumptions about what trauma does to people and even Tolkien himself realized the orcs had problems that he'd probably have revised if he'd lived longer (people wrote letters to him pointing out that the orcs being wholly broken on Morgoth/Sauron's will conflicted with his Catholic beliefs about free will, and he agreed with them).
But that's kind of wandering off topic, this thread is about kobold positivity! I found this on a motivational poster I can't for the life of me find anymore, but it sums up my feelings pretty well (the picture was a sketch of a kobold clinging for dear life on the back of a riding dog running full tilt):
Kobolds are the only race capable of winning a fight solely through determination, their own sense of self-importance, and adorable pluck.
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One problem with making Kobolds bigger in Pathfinder is that their current popular depiction is all WoTC's baby. Before D&D 3rd Edition aside from their trap fixation they were pretty generic "other goblins." The whole bit about being tiny wannabe dragons who worship bigger dragons, invented whole cloth by WoTC's writers. No basis in mythology whatsoever.
When Paizo took Goblins and turned them into the pickle loving pyromaniacs we all know and love they were still just pretty generic fodder monsters in D&D. There was plenty of room to do their own thing.
To really expand on kobolds while still using all that draconic lore that WoTC developed could be seen as poor creator's etiquette.
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To really expand on kobolds while still using all that draconic lore that WoTC developed could be seen as poor creator's etiquette.
Y’know, this is a very good point.
I don’t think etiquette is the right term, but it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense investing a lot of creative capital on someone else’s intellectual property.
You gave me something to think about Spamatron. :)
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How did your group resolve the encounter with the Evil protesters and their law-breaking former employer?
It was some time ago now, but as I recall, we arrested them.
More to the point, we approached them, explaining the complaints that brought us there and asking to speak with their leader. We were hoping to descalate the situation and get everyone back home safe. I don't think we actually cared whether or not they returned to work. When they attacked us unprovoked, we took them into custody. No one, not even their leader, was killed or even seriously harmed during the encounter (though the same couldn't be said of our party).
I think the instigating leader was later put to death and his followers, considering they attempted to murder lawful authorities, were given proportional slaps on the wrists (a few years of hard labor were I to hazard a guess).
Apropos of nothing, but didn't you talk about your friends being so furious over the concept of Paizo unionizing and considering hiring a diversity consultant that they almost quit the game before you convinced them not to I suspect the company you keep may have something to do with your obviously skewed viewpoint on this matter.
I have not played with that group in quite some time due to the real life priorities of many of the other players.
The group that I'm playing Agents of Edgewatch now is a rather neutral pay-to-play group. The GM asked us in Session 0 if there were any issues with the module, everyone said no, and we commenced having fun. None of these distractions* to interfere and ruin the game for everyone.
That's right; I'm SO despicable and vile that I actually pay money for the privilege of pretending to be a cop that beats up the downtrodden. /sarcasm
Sorry if I seem more upset than is warranted. I've received a number of nasty PMs due to my not falling in line with those who think of AoE as anything other than vile.
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I think we need to move on from Agents of Edgewatch.
Yes, I probably took us here when I disagreed with Keftiu’s opinion that the adventure was about PCs brutalizing a kobold union. I still disagree with that characterization because a) I really don’t think the writers intended it to come out that way b) you can’t really expect PCs to do anything and c) I’ve listened to the Agents of Edgewatch actual play podcast by Roll for Combat and rather enjoyed it. And I don’t like seeing folks trash things I enjoy.
But at the same time I can admit the story had problems. I said as much above. Paizo put a content advisory on it, and GMs should be thoughtful about how they present the adventure.
So let’s all just agree to disagree and move on to enjoying the game. Set aside the ad hominem attacks. This doesn’t need to be a conversation we “win” or “lose”. We can both have valid points.
And if you want to continue the conversation, move it to the AoE forum.
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So... it's an interesting question. It sounds like "gnolls as hyena-humanoids" are enough a thing of D&D that it's potentially problematic to push them too hard, but "kobolds as tiny dragons that revere bigger dragons" aren't? I mean, I gotta assume that Paizo has put more thought into this that I have. Let's see what we can see, though.
- gnolls are, admittedly, fairly heavily D&D. The exact spelling, the bit where they're anthropomorphic hyenas, and the connection with demon princes are all straight out of D&D i one fashion or another. If you're leaving them as savage, violent tribal types, that's also a D&D thing, and any association with flails would be as well. So what about kobolds?
- Appearance: Paizo has created an all new appearance for them, revamping them significantly.
- Live in caves, cowardly, slothful, clever: pretty sure you could reach back to the original myths for this one.
- Fond of traps: I'm not absolutely sure of this, but I suspect that this actually got added to the mythos with the Tucker's Kobolds story, which would make it hard for TSR to claim ownership over.
- tiny dragons who aspire to be more draconic and/or serve greater dragons: this has spread into the culture in a number of places, but I'm pretty sure that all of them are D&D references at whatever remove.
So there at least are meaningful chunks of the PF2 kobold that WotC cannot lay claim to. Is that enough? Well... I guess I assume so? I mean, if it were not, then Paizo would be being more generally careful about this, right?
Creative Director
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So... it's an interesting question. It sounds like "gnolls as hyena-humanoids" are enough a thing of D&D that it's potentially problematic to push them too hard, but "kobolds as tiny dragons that revere bigger dragons" aren't? I mean, I gotta assume that Paizo has put more thought into this that I have. Let's see what we can see, though.
The primary issue is the word itself. "Kobold" is from mythology. Whether they're presented as smol dragons or little dog men or devil worshipers or whatever, the word itself is part of the public domain, and the idea of a kobold being a little "goblin like" monster/creature/figure is from real world history and culture.
The word "Gnoll" was inspired, potentially, by a public domain short story, but it was spelled "Gnole" in that story. The spelling us gamers are more familiar with was a made up spelling for D&D, as is their incarnation specifically as hyena people.
It's the same reason we can talk about dragons in non-OGL products but can't talk about bulettes. And it's been further muddied by having other games use gnolls in their non-OGL games as well. Whether or not any individual content creator is comfortable exploring gnolls in their works is their call—personally, it makes me a bit nervous to do so in a non-OGL product, and as such I'm more hesitant to spend time building them up in an OGL product when that same amount of effort and work can be put to any number of creatures that we've either invented in-house or have been inspired by public domain/mythological sources and can use interchangeably in OGL products (like RPG books) and non OGL products (like fiction).
(For what it's worth, I pushed for a while to abandon the "we wanna be dragons" theme for kobolds because WotC had done that so well, and pushed for them to be "wee little devil worshipers" but in the end the dragon flavor was too popular and hard to escape the event horizon of.)
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Being reminded that bulettes are non-OGL makes me surprised that they exist in the Owlcat version of Kingmaker. Alternative version of Golarion where those exist, I guess.
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Sorry if I seem more upset than is warranted. I've received a number of nasty PMs due to my not falling in line with those who think of AoE as anything other than vile.Flag them and move on, replying does nothing but continue to feed the beast.
Can you flag private messages?
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So... it's an interesting question. It sounds like "gnolls as hyena-humanoids" are enough a thing of D&D that it's potentially problematic to push them too hard, but "kobolds as tiny dragons that revere bigger dragons" aren't? I mean, I gotta assume that Paizo has put more thought into this that I have. Let's see what we can see, though.The primary issue is the word itself. "Kobold" is from mythology. Whether they're presented as smol dragons or little dog men or devil worshipers or whatever, the word itself is part of the public domain, and the idea of a kobold being a little "goblin like" monster/creature/figure is from real world history and culture.
The word "Gnoll" was inspired, potentially, by a public domain short story, but it was spelled "Gnole" in that story. The spelling us gamers are more familiar with was a made up spelling for D&D, as is their incarnation specifically as hyena people.
It's the same reason we can talk about dragons in non-OGL products but can't talk about bulettes. And it's been further muddied by having other games use gnolls in their non-OGL games as well. Whether or not any individual content creator is comfortable exploring gnolls in their works is their call—personally, it makes me a bit nervous to do so in a non-OGL product, and as such I'm more hesitant to spend time building them up in an OGL product when that same amount of effort and work can be put to any number of creatures that we've either invented in-house or have been inspired by public domain/mythological sources and can use interchangeably in OGL products (like RPG books) and non OGL products (like fiction).
(For what it's worth, I pushed for a while to abandon the "we wanna be dragons" theme for kobolds because WotC had done that so well, and pushed for them to be "wee little devil worshipers" but in the end the dragon flavor was too popular and hard to escape the event horizon of.)
Maybe it is time to have a dragon rise to the status of Duke of hell and give kobolds a position of destruction as minions…I mean devotees?
It is also kinda interesting that they aren’t more common in Cheliax. It could make for some interesting tension if lots of devil worshiping Kobolds started religiously pilgramages, perhaps to the previous lair of the Arch Duke in Cheliax, and house Thrune was getting nervous about it disrupting long standing social hierarchies.
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Maybe it is time to have a dragon rise to the status of Duke of hell and give kobolds a position of destruction as minions…I mean devotees?
It is also kinda interesting that they aren’t more common in Cheliax. It could make for some interesting tension if lots of devil worshiping Kobolds started religiously pilgramages, perhaps to the previous lair of the Arch Duke in Cheliax, and house Thrune was getting nervous about it disrupting long standing social hierarchies.
Well. We have been looking for a way to have a medium-sized dragonic ancestry/heritage. The problem, of course, is that it gets way too close to the dragonborn... but if it was something that kobolds only achieved through the blessing of a Duke of Hell, that would certainly be a point of distinction there.
...and then of course you can play with the rifts in the kobold community. On the one side, you have the ones that are starting to integrate with society in general, and don't want to lose that. On the other, you have the ones who see this new draconic Duke of Hell as the new hotness. It's a dragon that everyone can follow. You have those who try to achieve synthesis between the two ideas by moving to Cheliax, with all of the interesting churn and friction that that's goign to bring.
I mean... it would be a terrible idea, from a practical "Paizo is an actual company made up of actual people" perspective. Kind of a severe slap in the face for the union, if you could even get people to write it at all. If there weren't any real-world considerations, though, I think it could make for some really interesting storylines.
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It is also kinda interesting that they aren’t more common in Cheliax. It could make for some interesting tension if lots of devil worshiping Kobolds started religiously pilgramages, perhaps to the previous lair of the Arch Duke in Cheliax, and house Thrune was getting nervous about it disrupting long standing social hierarchies.
One of the things I liked about them being devil worshipers is the fact that this let us tell devil worshiper stories NOT set in Cheliax; that was a conscious decision. They were meant to be more about worshiping archdevils, rather than Asmodeus. The kobolds in Kingmaker are one example of this. There's a mix of devil worship and dragon worship in "The Dragon's Demand" as well.
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Being reminded that bulettes are non-OGL makes me surprised that they exist in the Owlcat version of Kingmaker. Alternative version of Golarion where those exist, I guess.
The Owlcat games are under the OGL. It's a weird sort of corner case, but yeah, there are plenty of OGL things in those games like owlbears and bulettes and the like.
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(For what it's worth, I pushed for a while to abandon the "we wanna be dragons" theme for kobolds because WotC had done that so well, and pushed for them to be "wee little devil worshipers" but in the end the dragon flavor was too popular and hard to escape the event horizon of.)
Is this where the Sootscales’ choice of deity comes from?
I’m always glad to see more novel infernalists than just the Chelish. There’s been a few nods to Geryon and some infernal dukes being popular in Tian Xia that excited me a lot.
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(For what it's worth, I pushed for a while to abandon the "we wanna be dragons" theme for kobolds because WotC had done that so well, and pushed for them to be "wee little devil worshipers" but in the end the dragon flavor was too popular and hard to escape the event horizon of.)Is this where the Sootscales’ choice of deity comes from?
Yup; that's exactly where that comes from.
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The tension between Devil worship and dragon worship makes for an interesting tension within communities of kobolds as well. It gives a lot of room for groups that think they know what is best taking actions on behalf of the whole group.
Mammon has scales too
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There's always Draghignazzo who is both devil and dragon.
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While I don't think 1e touched on it at all, it seems like 2e might have more room for Tian Kobolds (given Treasure Vault's narrator), which offers some interesting room for them to diversify. Between imperial dragons being different from the D&D standard and the potential to incorporate stuff like the Geryon and Lau Kiritsu worship I mentioned above, they could feel especially distinct on that continent.
I'll add my voice to the chorus of those desperately wanting a Medium option for them! Whether it's through a Swolebold heritage, something to do with Wyvarans, an infernal blessing, or something else, I'd appreciate something vaguely Dragonborn-equivalent, but its own thing.
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Just wanted to chime in to say I'm now absolutely obsessed with the concept of the Swolebold, just an absolute unit of a kobold.
A quick google will show you some art that I believe Kobold Press made of the concept.
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It was indeed Kobold Press. At the moment, the closest you can come is a kobold Giant Instinct Barbarian, and thus only temporarily. *le sigh*
That being said, that's still a pretty fun concept! Since Giant Instinct doesn't explicitly HAVE any opinions about actual giants the way the Dragon Instinct does, you just can't deny challenges of personal strength, it'd be the perfect way to roleplay a Swolbold who's trying to max his gains to be like his idol, Kurgess! So of COURSE he's gonna accept any challenge to his strength, with a grin and a flex, practically unable to forgo a chance to show off, and even if he's arrogant he'd still be a good sport about it. He thinks you're awesome, just like he is! And when faced with bullies, imagine the looks on their faces when the short dragon-man suddenly towers over them and asks "Why don't you literally pick on somebody your own size?"
Can you tell I've thought about this a bit too much?
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Just wanted to chime in to say I'm now absolutely obsessed with the concept of the Swolebold, just an absolute unit of a kobold.A quick google will show you some art that I believe Kobold Press made of the concept.
Do they actually call it the Swolebold?
What search terms do I need to find the art?
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Just wanted to chime in to say I'm now absolutely obsessed with the concept of the Swolebold, just an absolute unit of a kobold.A quick google will show you some art that I believe Kobold Press made of the concept.Do they actually call it the Swolebold?
What search terms do I need to find the art?
“Swolbold,” no E.
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Normally the mix of modern slang and monster names for fantasy stuff kinda annoys me... but the swolbold is pretty delightful.
Although my playstyle would work better going in the other direction, down to a Tiny kobold.
AKA: The smolbold.
This would be pretty close to their origins!
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In my homebrew I already add on some cultural and biological traits to make kobolds more interesting.
I've never used the alignment system since even as a child I saw how bad it was for anything other then actual beings made of good/evil, so I've never seen kobolds as evil, even in 3rd edition. They are considered evil because they exemplify some bad human quolities, greed and xenophobia. People call them cowardly because they are afraid of creatures three times(often much more) then their own size that often want to kill them, go figure.
I think there's plenty of room to keep all that and putting a better spin on it. Hoarders who don't value personal ownership of things, everything they take is for their tribe. They see themselves as heirs to draconic power, thus other creatures are lesser and they tend to only get along with like minded people so often keep to their own little groups.
Add in a bit more and you can really make it your own. Like having them act similar to Minions.
Hope to see that sometime, kobolds #1.
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Kurgess is the only true God. Got it through hard, honest work and not through that dumb starstone shortcut.
Well, not JUST that. There's the implication that Cayden Cailean and Desna elevated him to divinity after his heroic sacrifice, so he was essentially sponsored like any other pro-athlete. :P
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One of the things I liked about them being devil worshipers is the fact that this let us tell devil worshiper stories NOT set in Cheliax; that was a conscious decision. They were meant to be more about worshiping archdevils, rather than Asmodeus. The kobolds in Kingmaker are one example of this. There's a mix of devil worship and dragon worship in "The Dragon's Demand" as well.It is also kinda interesting that they aren’t more common in Cheliax. It could make for some interesting tension if lots of devil worshiping Kobolds started religiously pilgramages, perhaps to the previous lair of the Arch Duke in Cheliax, and house Thrune was getting nervous about it disrupting long standing social hierarchies.
I just want to chime in to say that kobold diabolists were absolutely what got me interested in Pathfinder's kobolds. I find the dragon worship a little goofy, but as soon as there was a second "faction", it made things click and added a lot of depth. So thank you for that addition!
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...and now I'm imagining some sort of cloak-and-dagger spies-infiltrating-spies game with dragon-following kobolds and diabolist kobolds each pretending to be the other in a complicated dance while the group as a whole needs to deal with outside threats.
Like... there's a tribe of kobolds who are worshipping some dragon who's at least fairly chill. One of them goes diabolist and starts gathering influence inside the tribe. The old chief (who's still following the dragon) grabs the party and directs them to infiltrate the diabolist faction, find out who it is that's running it, and try to limit their spread, slow them down, report back, and so forth. All sorts of possibilities for double, triple, and quadruple agents. At the same time, they don't necessarily want this whole thing to explode in ugly ways, because there are a lot of threats out there that are not their fellow kobolds that the tribe has to work together to fight off, and there's winter coming... which gives great opportunities both for quietly betraying each other by pulling back right at the wrong moment to let someone die at the hands of the enemies of the tribe and to sway hearts and minds by saving the lives of your fellows and being particularly effective in service to the tribe. Then there's an entire minigame on how well-maintained the snares and traps around the lair are, and that minigame keeps coming up in various battles, by actually adding various snares to the field and letting the party know about them (if the party ha been contributing to the defenses like they should)
...and at the end of the day, it's a game about politics and religion, and many things are possible. The tribe might turn to diabolism or return to dragon-worship (either of the old dragon or of a new dragon, which can be found and spoken with if you put in the effort) or trace a middle path between them where both are accepted. The tribe could be thriving or faltering or collapsing on any of these paths. The party could be hailed as saviors, quietly respected, or exiled as traitors, regardless of the path.
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While we're here, my favorite thing to add on to kobold lore is that the cleanliness of coins is important to them. It doesn't change the value at all, but it is a proportionate sign of respect. Generally, this means that (relatively speaking) powerful kobolds use grubby money and those with less social standing have to spend time polishing their coins to avoid giving offense. It also means that kobolds will often use their grimiest money when trading with outsiders, having little genuine respect for them (or just thinking they can get away with it), but will treat it as a grave insult if the same is done to them.
To me, it's a little bit of lore to give them some LE flavor the same way how goblins' typical hatred of horses and dogs is a nice CE emphasis.
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I have to wonder if Nagajor hosts any Kobolds, perhaps acting as a bastion for scaly folk of all sorts? Naga make a suitably powerful replacement patron for a dragon or fiend, while PFS had a fleeting note of a cult to Geryon in the capital city - an archdevil who hoards not gold, but forbidden lore. A land of Nagas and their servants is already killer, but one full of secret-hungry Kobold cultists? I'm onboard.
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To me, that's just insulting...
Ever since Dragon Magic for D&D 3.5 (IIRC), kobolds have been slightly better as characters, mostly because it was revealed how they can be of any alignment that match their scale colors. A red-scaled kobold tends to be evil, but a gold-scaled one tends to be good.
Also, kobolds need some love due to their pathetic stats back in P1E, not to mention that if they were beter suited for adventuring, this race would have been the de facto "dragon race" that people asked for.
Finally, goblins are... still seen as evil and mischievous cannon fodders... and no, I haven't forgiven Paizo for changing the hobgoblins from tough human/goblin hybrids to Medium goblins...
Seriously, who complained about the hobgoblin's initial design again???
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Finally, goblins are... still seen as evil and mischievous cannon fodders…
Their place in the lore and in the 2e corebook suggests otherwise.
and no, I haven't forgiven Paizo for changing the hobgoblins from tough human/goblin hybrids to Medium goblins...
Seriously, who complained about the hobgoblin's initial design again???
I’ve warmed up on the redesign, as it actually makes them look related. The Kaoling-styled armor designs are what really sold me on them.
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Just wanted to chime in to say I'm now absolutely obsessed with the concept of the Swolebold, just an absolute unit of a kobold.A quick google will show you some art that I believe Kobold Press made of the concept.Do they actually call it the Swolebold?
What search terms do I need to find the art?