Celadon being forever absolutely devoted to a given deity would make them quit limiting as PCs.I agree. Do Celadons have souls? It seems to me that a god who wants more worshippers has failed if he simply creates constructs that have no soul, as it seems to me it's the soul that's important in a worshipper.
It was more about "worshippers who would never stray away" and "tireless workers".
A deity's main weakness is the number of worshippers. If they have none, they weaken and die O_O
I fail to see how keeping a celedon's religious belief and pious behavior would be a detriment to character building.
Name me a class who's 100% against religions and divine beliefs.
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That's actually not how deities work in Golarion. They don't depend on worshipers to survive, and worshipers don't grant them extra power.
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Slight clarification: Worshipers are not necessary for deities' existence or their "power" as a deity. However, worshipers provide deities influence to affect other mortals (without drawing the attention of other deities the way direct intervention or sending a herald/extra-planar emissary would).
After worshipers die (and are judged), their souls provide deities with petitioners and eventually quintessence that can be used to expand the deities' realms (or for other purposes).
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Slight clarification: Worshipers are not necessary for deities' existence or their "power" as a deity. However, worshipers provide deities influence to affect other mortals (without drawing the attention of other deities the way direct intervention or sending a herald/extra-planar emissary would).
After worshipers die (and are judged), their souls provide deities with petitioners and eventually quintessence that can be used to expand the deities' realms (or for other purposes).
It's the biggest racket going on anywhere. We are but lego bricks for their amusement.
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I still want moth people.
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I still want moth people.
Normally I don't play anything much beyond the core ancestries, but... Well, if my username is any clue I'd LOVE this!
Mothfolk ("dopterines") are actually one of the ancestries my girlfriend and I drafted up last year, but they're #5 and we're currently editing #4, so it could be a while. :P
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It's the biggest racket going on anywhere. We are but lego bricks for their amusement.Slight clarification: Worshipers are not necessary for deities' existence or their "power" as a deity. However, worshipers provide deities influence to affect other mortals (without drawing the attention of other deities the way direct intervention or sending a herald/extra-planar emissary would).
After worshipers die (and are judged), their souls provide deities with petitioners and eventually quintessence that can be used to expand the deities' realms (or for other purposes).
Is this what they call rahadoumposting?
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Is this what they call rahadoumposting?It's the biggest racket going on anywhere. We are but lego bricks for their amusement.Slight clarification: Worshipers are not necessary for deities' existence or their "power" as a deity. However, worshipers provide deities influence to affect other mortals (without drawing the attention of other deities the way direct intervention or sending a herald/extra-planar emissary would).
After worshipers die (and are judged), their souls provide deities with petitioners and eventually quintessence that can be used to expand the deities' realms (or for other purposes).
I do not believe many beings are aware of what ultimately happens to the soul in the grand cycle in the long term. Even those very knowledgeable about the divine likely believe that souls simply go to their deity's realm to live forever. To my knowledge very few know the truth: that eventually whatever makes you, you, ceases to exist in order to feed the growth of the planes.
If they did, I'm sure you would have far more adherents to the Laws of Mortality.
DARKLANDS
ANCESTRIES
- Sekmin (serpentfolk)
- Xulgath (troglodyte)
- Mongrelmen (could be folded into fleshwarps)
- Ulat-kinis (skum)HERITAGES
- Sekmin nagaji
- Drathnelar gnomes (svirfneblins)
- Vegepygmy leshiesYou forgot Caligni, Derro, and possibly Morlocks and Munavri.
I'd also pitch Seugathi as a possibility, but I think they're more likely in the "intended to be monstrous" camp, like Sekmin. Same goes for Urdefhans.
These four could be cool :)
Seugathi feels like a Versatile heritage, being someone captured and enthralled by those worms :)
The more I think about it, the more I wished Shoonies would get remastered as follow:
- renamed Dogfolk, or "Shoony" in their own culture.
- Small or Medium
- Ability Boosts for Dexterity and Free; no Flaw
- Heritages based on real-life dog types, so you can play something OTHER than a pug.
* Herding (collie, sheep dog, kelpie)
* Hunting (cur, terrier, hound, shiba, spaniel)
* Mastiff (bulldog, boxer, rottweiller)
* Martial (shepherd, doberman, retriever, schnauzer, dalmatian)
* Working (husky, malamute, chinook, labrador, laika, St. Bernard)
* Ambassador (poodle, corgi, yorkshire, pug)
* Stray (any)
Of course, any breed can be used for any role, but these suggestions would alow for a MUCH greater variety.
I'm so sorry, but you can be either a housecat or a tiger catfolk, either a hawk or seagull strix, or either a viper or cobra nagaji. You should be able to be a pug or another dog breed for a shoony.
Rant over...
The more I think about it, the more I wished Shoonies would get remastered .
For myself, I'd like
a) Shoonies to get more feats than they have. So far they have not appeared outside an adventure so they are pretty limited.b) For them to be written about in a positive light. Their background reads like an apology for their existance. Loyalty is a strong trait.
The more I think about it, the more I wished Shoonies would get remastered .For myself, I'd like
a) Shoonies to get more feats than they have. So far they have not appeared outside an adventure so they are pretty limited.
b) For them to be written about in a positive light. Their background reads like an apology for their existance. Loyalty is a strong trait.
At this point, why adding them in the first place?
Most ancestries are ported from P1E and new ones offer something unique lore-wise or are conversions of well-known creatures... for the most part.
- Shoonies bring nothing new when people demanded for the Rougarou.
- Golomas look like xenomorphs... or grey renders, but are cowards.
- Shisks are humans with hedgehog quills... huh... yeah?
I mean, at least Conrasus are Aeon vessels.
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Shoonies have very particularly Aroden-focused lore. Trying to genericize them into being wider dogfolk makes no sense.
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I mean you treat the Golomas unique premise as a downside? I think an ancestry that generally seems otherworldly or terrifying but also feels the same way about most other ancestries is an interesting premise. It asks the question "what is normal?" and has interesting things to say about internal biases and stuff.
Shisks are a bit more complicated. I think they are an interesting case of trying to come up with a fantasy ancestry without a basis. Humanoids with quills and hollow bones and a unique tradition focus on knowledge isn't any more out there than humans with pointy ears, long lives and are particularly graceful, or humans that are short and stout stubborn and live underground. The difference is that those second two examples have more history to base on them... but thats only because of time itself. New things will always have less basis because they are will new. They can still be worth it. (If Shisks are based on something than my apologies)
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I mean you treat the Golomas unique premise as a downside? I think an ancestry that generally seems otherworldly or terrifying but also feels the same way about most other ancestries is an interesting premise. It asks the question "what is normal?" and has interesting things to say about internal biases and stuff.
Shisks are a bit more complicated. I think they are an interesting case of trying to come up with a fantasy ancestry without a basis. Humanoids with quills and hollow bones and a unique tradition focus on knowledge isn't any more out there than humans with pointy ears, long lives and are particularly graceful, or humans that are short and stout stubborn and live underground. The difference is that those second two examples have more history to base on them... but thats only because of time itself. New things will always have less basis because they are will new. They can still be worth it. (If Shisks are based on something than my apologies)
Really doesn't help that the Mwangi Expanse ancestries have a really small amount of feats. It certainly makes them feel more one-note, even when compared to other non-core ancestries
Shoonies have very particularly Aroden-focused lore. Trying to genericize them into being wider dogfolk makes no sense.
I'm criticising them for being a pathetic species. Writing an ancestry like this is terrible and demeaning.
Because the writers released them as a playable ancestry they should at least make them playable.
Shoonies have very particularly Aroden-focused lore. Trying to genericize them into being wider dogfolk makes no sense.
Making Shoonies NOT pug-folk makes a lot of sense :p
Seriously, of all the dog breeds, they picked THAT one?
I mean you treat the Golomas unique premise as a downside? I think an ancestry that generally seems otherworldly or terrifying but also feels the same way about most other ancestries is an interesting premise. It asks the question "what is normal?" and has interesting things to say about internal biases and stuff.
I would have accepted "secretive", "hidden" and "invisible", but this is ridiculous to make them cowards.
Sheesh, we already have kobolds as whimpy... do we need a bigger version?
Shisks are a bit more complicated. I think they are an interesting case of trying to come up with a fantasy ancestry without a basis. Humanoids with quills and hollow bones and a unique tradition focus on knowledge isn't any more out there than humans with pointy ears, long lives and are particularly graceful, or humans that are short and stout stubborn and live underground. The difference is that those second two examples have more history to base on them... but thats only because of time itself. New things will always have less basis because they are will new. They can still be worth it. (If Shisks are based on something than my apologies)
When the same book offers spider-folks with the ability to change into a human, shisks come out as boring and bland.
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Fantasy worlds rarely, if ever, have a well thought out ecology.
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More Anadi feats please.
Fantasy worlds rarely, if ever, have a well thought out ecology.
You'd be surprised.
I recall owning all "Races of" books from D&D 3.5, and they detailled a LOT about the various races. For instance, half-dragons are often fond of books and halfling women have a 7-month pregnancy.
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At this point, they could regroup Ogres, Trolls, Giants and Titanblood Nephilim into a book about Giantkind.
Even then, they could expand the existing ancestries with giant heritages:
- Lizardfolks? They have the Scion, as well as the Sarcosuchus and the 1,001 dinosaurs
- Kholos? Hyaenodon
- Vanaras? Megaprimatus
- Catfolks? Saber Tiger and Spotted Lion
- Minotaurs and Sarangays? Aurochs; no change for the Minotaur size-wise
- Nagajis? Titanboa
- Ratfolks? Dire rat
- Strixes? Roc
- Merfolks? Megalodon
- Anadis? Spiders can go way big
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Let's don't us start, or I'll turn this thread into another "we need sexier nonhuman ancestry art, for aesthetic reasons" discussion.
I think we just need random "this npc totally open for dating sim, ya know" moments back, things been chaste for years by now after the half-orc hunk from Tyrant's Grasp ;P
Let's don't us start, or I'll turn this thread into another "we need sexier nonhuman ancestry art, for aesthetic reasons" discussion.I think we just need random "this npc totally open for dating sim, ya know" moments back, things been chaste for years by now after the half-orc hunk from Tyrant's Grasp ;P
There's a recent dating sim game called "Date Everything!", in which you date humanoid/anthro versions of objects.
Tian Xia added object-based ancestries (Yaoguai) and heritages (Poppet).
I think we can check this box :P
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Let's don't us start, or I'll turn this thread into another "we need sexier nonhuman ancestry art, for aesthetic reasons" discussion.I think we just need random "this npc totally open for dating sim, ya know" moments back, things been chaste for years by now after the half-orc hunk from Tyrant's Grasp ;PThere's a recent dating sim game called "Date Everything!", in which you date humanoid/anthro versions of objects.
Tian Xia added object-based ancestries (Yaoguai) and heritages (Poppet).
I think we can check this box :P
So *yes*, but realize that Yaoguai go well beyond "object-based" though -- they can be *concepts*. You can be a Yaoguai of Happiness or Rainbows or Garlic-breath -- if you can conceive of it, then it could have gained a spark of sentience and be playable.
Which is wild, but also means that, yes, you can date *anything*.
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Here's an ancestry that is missing and would be wlecomed: Gargoyles
Here's something they should emphasize on: gargoyles were designed to "frighten away evil spirits", but the catch is how "monstruous" gargoyles can be. Logically speaking, an evil spirit wouldn't be easily scared by an equally scary-looking monster, but gargoyles can do so.
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Defenders of the night? No more able to stop protecting the castle than breathing the air?
I still want to repeat "Figments"
Creatures from the very borders of the Astral Plane who are sometimes perceived and interacted with by young mortals. They come from an ephemeral world but because of the Universe's rigidity are force into solid form, and must relearn to change themselves and exercise their dream logic.
Defenders of the night? No more able to stop protecting the castle than breathing the air?
I still want to repeat "Figments"
Creatures from the very borders of the Astral Plane who are sometimes perceived and interacted with by young mortals. They come from an ephemeral world but because of the Universe's rigidity are force into solid form, and must relearn to change themselves and exercise their dream logic.
Perhaps with a rival dream-based ancestry from the ethereal.
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Ethereal might have been more accurate.
The Heritages would have to do with with how they interacted. The Respite are those born from dreams they interacted with materials as they slept and recuperated, giving them bonuses to medicine checks and dark vision, The Companions are imaginary friends who interacted with the lonely had have good perception checks to sense motive and a feat for shape shifting (like a tanuki), The Fearsome are monsters under the bed or in closets who allowed us to confront our fears safely, they generally tend to be the most overtly protective. They get the intimidating glare feat and A bonus if using it on someone who recently struck an ally, and the paramors are those fake significant others, or dream dates. Paramores tend to be very responsive to those around them, they can use a Aide as a reaction.
Still hoping for Boggarts, Bugbears, and Dogfolk.
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....anyways, it works well enough, but I'd still love an official Paizo version of gargoyles. Although probably not with a 'can't stop protecting the castle' requirement - PCs are adventurers after all, and I'd like to be able to play a gargoyle that can go on globe-trotting adventures like every other kind of PC.
Their protective nature could be reflected by their habits though, such as setting an alarm around a camping site.
Their shapeshifting nature could work too, with an ability to diminish their monstruous nature to avoid suspicion.
Still hoping for Boggarts, Bugbears, and Dogfolk.
The closest to Dogfolks, right now, are shoonies, but nothing prevents you from swapping pugs from another breed ;)
The issue with Shoonys is that their feats are all trash. If the Shoonys got remastered with new stuff, 100%.
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Oh sure - an optional ability like that, or possibly just a base ability of the ancestry, would be fine. I just don't want "they can no more not protect the castle than not breathe", as in, protecting a location is a mandatory thing they all MUST do and don't get a choice in. I want to be able to play one in Fist of the Ruby Phoenix or Gatewalkers, or any other adventure where there's not one core location to protect and return to.
I could see them being VERY insightful on architecture and construction. They could also "attune" to a structure each day, making them "their protected grounds" and being almost linked to it. For instance, one could attune to your Ruby Phoenix arena... and detect any foul play at hand if traps and cheating are used.
Being able to shape-shift can also be interesting (although I don't think it's part of Paizo's gargoyle abilities? I've seen it in books like the Craft Sequence, but it's not part of their usual ability set) but I'd rather see it as something like the other shapeshifting ancestries, not "yes, this evil wizard you're fighting just completely forgot he didn't have a statue of a gargoyle decked out in full adventurer gear in his foyer."
Paizo's gargoyles don't change shape. They look like they're made of stone, but they're organic in nature. They can freeze and pass as stone statues. Disney's Gargoyles change from organic creatures to actual stone statues.
My point is that gargoyles could develop magical abilities that minimize their features to better pass in society. They could be aware how their nature is to scare evil spirits, but as time went on, they realize that they also... scare others away ^^; That's why they could get a spell that change their forms from "monstruous" to "far less monstruous" while keeping "minor monstrous traits".
On a sidenote, them getting bonuses on attacks and skills against anything that count as a "spirit" (not just the spirit trait) would be a nice touch.
Well, gargoyles went from "demonic figures scaring off evil spirits" to "elaborate church decorations", because some gargoyle designs shift from demons to other heraldic beasts.
At this point, scaring off sprits went from "using their fearsome aspects" to "using their dominating presences".
Could they rework Mortic into an archetype, alongside remastered versions of the Zombie, Ghoul, Lich, Ghost, Mummy and Vampire?
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By no means an exhaustive list, but I've had a couple of hypothetical "new" versatile heritages on the brain of late...
First is a "Jotunblood" heritage that does for giants what Dragonblood does for dragons.
Second is bringing the Beastbrood Rakshasa-spawn up to date. Between the changes to Rakshasa as a creature family post-remaster (no longer being fiends, for one) and the fact that Hungerseed got spun off into their own VH, it seems inevitable that Beastbrood will eventually be given the same treatment. Perhaps in the upcoming book that the Impossible playtest is linked to, if it is thematically tied to the Impossible Lands as a region? Or a full-on setting guide for Vudra?
First is a "Jotunblood" heritage that does for giants what Dragonblood does for dragons.
I posted this earlier:
At this point, they could regroup Ogres, Trolls, Giants and Titanblood Nephilim into a book about Giantkind.
Even then, they could expand the existing ancestries with giant heritages:
- Lizardfolks? They have the Scion, as well as the Sarcosuchus and the 1,001 dinosaurs
- Kholos? Hyaenodon or even the Flind
- Vanaras? Megaprimatus
- Catfolks? Saber Tiger and Spotted Lion
- Minotaurs and Sarangays? Aurochs; no change for the Minotaur size-wise
- Nagajis? Titanboa
- Ratfolks? Dire rat
- Strixes? Roc
- Merfolks? Megalodon
- Anadis? Spiders can go way big
- Leshies? Big plants as well
- Kobolds? Wyvarans... although this could be a separate ancestry
- Surkis? Bigger beetles
- Yaoguais? Stronger manifestations
- Sprites? Jack-in-Irons
- Everyone else? giantism heritage
I would totally love a jotunblood heritage. I'm right now making an exemplar that awoke his powers due to being the descendant from strong giant that existed a long time ago and it would be great to have something to represent that giant-side of the character mechanically.
I would totally love a jotunblood heritage. I'm right now making an exemplar that awoke his powers due to being the descendant from strong giant that existed a long time ago and it would be great to have something to represent that giant-side of the character mechanically.MC Giant Barbarian
I'm already taking cultivator and mortal herald later down the line since this giant ancestor was pretty much immortal and a kind of a demigod too. Not to mention two of my ikons (gaze sharp as steel and scar of the survivor) have the concentrate trait so rage is pretty much a net loss for me.