25speedforseaweedleshy's page

run everything off dc instead of require str dex based attack roll

or master attack on bomb and dex key ability

nothing else is going to work under the current structure

no amount of small tweak will fix the misguided bomber feat pool

I mean, there will still be elves that live in Golarion. Some of them will still live underground. That is probably more close to copyright infringement than any of the new dragons, because the new dragons are coming into existence to highlight how dragons in Golarion are tied to the 4 traditions of magic, which is a cosmological feature of Golarion predating the ORC split, and no where near a WotC concept. If WotC adopted primal dragons and occult dragons and divine dragons, they would be the ones risking copyright infringement. What totally new thing has Paizo introduced to Drow on a creation myth or cosmological level equal to dragons based on traditions or a group of betrayed dwarves turning to a dark god who forced a hyper-hierarchical Ponzi scheme over their whole society, making them trust no one and see giving some one a gift as an excuse to come back and claim future revenue from them?

There is nothing close to this level of rewrite that has already been in progress related to bigger changes in Golarion lore that were already underway when the whole OGL had to be walked away from.

divine occult primal arcane dragon are such good idea

so much better than the old color and metal nonsense

new name for the books are so bad

core rulebook and gamemastery guide are much better

hope someone come up with some better name

extra 5 feet at level 1 to 3 are nice but 5 or 10 more at level 11 and 17 are not that useful

size bloat in late game are pretty extreme

too many enemy are gargantuan

most people here read drizzt novel decade ago but some are obviously more nostalgia than other

drow are never that interesting even at the time

maybe the spider motif part

the problem with all the evil underground civilization trope is the logistic

that ghoul city need to have more living mortal than undead

and even more insane source of food too feed the mortal

writer have to use nonsense super life granting orb sun to make the vault in extinction curse work and that just can not be used on every big underground cave

Kyle_TheBuilder wrote:

Truth to be told, they seem to be way more attractive by design for martials/non-spellcaster than spellcasters. Their benefits (apart from Jolt Coil) are minor for casters, while utility-significant for non-spellcasters.

What?! Gaining TWO slots for cantrips for only money (meaning basically for free) is AWESOME! Also some spellhearts even have constant effects useful even for casters. Perfect Droplet is so nice (or at least flavourful).

with treasure vault adding vigilant eye saurian spike the competition are intense

expect most player will not choose spellheart base on cantrip they carry

undead archetype exist to save time so gm and player want to play undead doesn't waste hours homebrew a balanced option

gm can always allow player to use monster undead template on their character instead but that obviously will lead to overpower issue

so it is big reprint of everything

will the terrible layout of core rulebook be updated in any way

fascinated is basically taunt for spell and concentrate action

it is weird how hard it is to apply with so many spell that does very little else

golem antimagic is a mistake

just replace them all with 3 status save against spell

worst problem is still dc and attack run on different attribute

really hope they switch to con to attack or str dex for key ability

rahadoum are a insult to atheism

they are just stupid

isn't there a rahadoum lich in 2e adventure path

was expecting a class and spell building guide a long time now

get specific number on how much budget every proficiency cost would be interesting

antipaladin are pretty horrible name

keep it simple so maybe destroyer

spellstrike are interesting

it doesn't have the Combine the damage from both Strikes and apply resistances and weaknesses only once language many feat such as double slice have

so one could argue a slashing weapon and slashing spell delivered by spellstrike may trigger slashing weakness twice

Why would intelligent creatures consider pulling out the Winter Bolt (since it doesn't immobilize or otherwise hamper them) or using it to kamikaze (since it is not a literal ticking bomb) unless they have (a.) successfully identified the spell or (b.) previously seen or experienced it in action?

barbarian style npc might break it by instinct

smart npc might leave it in to stop bleeding than get blasted one turn later

1 action apply with poison weapon feat

than any kind of strike hit enemy

not sure why rope dart should have monk trait

but what weapon get monk trait in 2e doesn't make sense at all

description read more like that rope hatchet main character of prey used

switch expert spellcaster and master spellcaster with level 5 and level 13 class feature for full caster

finally someone said it

it make no sense at all naginata and khakkara doesn't have monk trait

also need monk mace and arm ring

dread secret can be as good as 6 vision of weakness in theory

most fight doesn't have 6 enemy

lore doesn't have the worst curse but hardly much useful benefit

would stick with vision of weakness in most situation

summoner are pretty difficult to play for any player

best thing wizard can do at level 1 might be cast magic weapon on martial

if player doesn't understand they need teamwork any fight would be very difficult

magic missile are extremely good for psychic now

with dragon throat scale and unleash psyche if multiple enemy have weakness to energy damage magic missile can trigger multiple of them with bonus damage of twice spell level

not sure if life shot are competitive even if they are free

2 action for third of healing of heal

I wonder if we're going to see any new special materials.

something jade based most likely

there was that one burial jade armor

summon ooze will be very powerful when paizo eventually add it

would be more worry about polymorph

the polymorph spell of som have a clear quality drop compare to core rulebook polymorph spell

only ooze form look good

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:

Yeah it's complete nonsense that you can play a Paladin in this game too. A paladin is one of twelve specific guys.

so katana is katana

naginata is naginata

but samurai is not samurai

There’s no need to be willfully obtuse. Akira Kurosawa made “samurai movies” even though nobody in those is a bureaucrat, and it’s that mold of samurai being discussed here.

Much like how Druids and Paladins are miles away from their historical equivalents.

I don’t think Samurai has the legs for a class, but intentionally ignoring what people are asking for just isn’t fruitful. Everyone in this thread asking for a Samurai wants a person with a cool sword/polearm, not a provincial administrator - why not talk about what they actually mean?

does people not realize the evil bugyo stereotype common in samurai movie are also samurai

head of one of the three major side branch of tokugawa also have a long running detective tv show called mito komon

if dandy is a archetype there is hardly any reason to say aspect other than martial should be ignored

I am pretty sure no archetype or class is going to devote page space or class budget to "bureaucracy". There are other games where this would be appropriate, but this isn't one.

But like the reason Samurai needs to be an archetype and not a class is "it's a feudal rank, having it means you're in charge of someone or something" and "being one class instead of another" should not carry with it any sort of inherent prestige. Level 1 characters are supposed to be basically nobodies who are only familiar to people in their immediate circle.

It's like you wouldn't allow someone to be an Aldori Swordlord or a Nexian Arclord at level 1. If there's some "prestigious martial rank in Minkai" that's an archetype, and probably a level 6+ one. Honestly there's no reason it couldn't be several archetypes if it merits the page space.

samurai are hardly prestigious at sengoku or edo

anyone can just show up with some weapon and claim to be descendant of someone and ask to become retainer during sengoku

shibata katsuie claim to come from shibata but there was no record of it

samurai or ronin could be background

kengo or oni could be archetype

Yeah it's complete nonsense that you can play a Paladin in this game too. A paladin is one of twelve specific guys.

so katana is katana

naginata is naginata

but samurai is not samurai

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

samurai are too broad to be archetype

I don't really follow how "Samurai" is too broad for an archetype when things like Bounty Hunter, Scout, Pirate, and Vigilante are archetypes all of which are things I would consider broader than "Samurai".

samurai start as manager for estate of capital bureaucrat

some continue to be bugyo until the end of samurai

while in sekigahara even ashigaru are samurai

3 years later tokugawa become shogun still count as samurai

from any clerk or guard to small landlord or bureaucrat to highest de facto ruler could all be samurai

it is not a actual job

Hey Vamp, have you noticed the change to the Leiomano that was reprinted in Treasure Vault? Instead of being deadly d10 it is now fatal d10.

I love it soooo much.

Hmm

one hand fatal d10 bludgeon are amazing

club crit are pretty bad but not most important

pretty sure rowboat can fit on sailing ship

vehicle have specific occupy space is pretty useful

third attack after paired shot are -10 or 8

if it doesn't say any attack ignore map increase than map increase as normal

polar ray does 75 damage against level 15 creature

level 8 shocking grasp does 59 damage and most attack spell scale at 2d6 per level at 56 damage

only imaginary weapon have 73 damage at level 8 and and can be used much more frequently but doesn't give -2 fort debuff

polar ray awful scaling hardly matter since level 9 spell are pretty expensive to spam even for level 20 character

YuriP wrote:

Great News!!! We finally have something from Tian Xia.

But there aren't anything about classes (with exception from Magus Hybrid Study) and many players call for oriental themed classes like Samurai, Ninja and even Onmyoji, Wu Shi, Musa, Fangshi and Mudang.

There's some prevision for such more cultural related classes? (I also miss this for Garund region I think maybe there classes related to such culture too) Because we already have many region and cultural related ancestries but the classes are all generic.

I highly doubt we'll get these as classes. I have noted that cultural and regional ideas are typically archetypes. I suspect that the character guide will be split between new ancestry content (new releases and expanded existing) as well as likely some class feats and most importantly archetypes. A ninja or samurai archetype would be plenty to cover the ideas.

samurai are too broad to be archetype

remember how awful viking are compare to just bastion

wanderer archetype that have some ronin element in it maybe

multiclass is nightmare for caster level

spelllike ability often only count class level

there are also feat and feature increase caster level of specific spell

it is manageable in 1e because most caster only need to keep track of the few one shot whole room and save or die spell

in 2e if player have to manage different caster level between class spell and archetype spell it would be a disaster

spell slot from archetype are much better for other martial than magus

staff with true strike are more effective for magus

not sure the return of overcomplicated caster level would be a good idea

turn all spellslot into charge creat a mana system might work

have to run on a very different math than staff charge

get scroll striker and scroll thaumaturgy at mid level

just hope for writer actually know what they are doing

writer of fist of ruby phoenix does seem like they know a lot about japan culture

never expect hyakkiyakou and seiya soiya end up in ap

wizard are clearly meant to have the worst focus spell pool and the most versatile metamagic feat pool

there are multiple reason this design doesn't work and wizard often need to take archetype for focus spell

Sansetsukon also appears to be chinese weapon originally?

sansetsukon is the japanese name for it

there are also five section or seven section club in wuxia novel

like any other warrior samurai mostly use polearm bow and gun

there is one record of kusarigama used to kill a named enemy

kanabo is used by oni in story but not samurai with nickname of oni

25speedforseaweedleshy wrote:

keftiu wrote:

My hope is that a 2e Shaman class is coming in 2024, as the word is drawn from the traditions of certain Siberian/North Asian peoples, but also fits well for the greater focus on spirits we see across Tian Xia. Need someone who can entreat the kami for help with a harvest, banish a haunting on your property, or ask the winds to fill your sails? That's a Shaman's job.

would much rather shaman work more like folklorist or chanter from pillar of eternity

The Chanter was just a Bard with an emphasis on summon spells. I don’t think that concept has much of anything to do with shamanism, and isn’t anything you can’t currently do in PF2.

the point of chanter are not buff or debuff song but the whole accumulate phrase into spell thing

pretty sure thaumaturge have something that get accumulate over 3 turn in playtest

also protection circle

really hope paizo eventually put those feat out in balanced state

My hope is that a 2e Shaman class is coming in 2024, as the word is drawn from the traditions of certain Siberian/North Asian peoples, but also fits well for the greater focus on spirits we see across Tian Xia. Need someone who can entreat the kami for help with a harvest, banish a haunting on your property, or ask the winds to fill your sails? That's a Shaman's job.

would much rather shaman work more like folklorist or chanter from pillar of eternity

keftiu wrote:

I think the issue is that Ninjas and Samurai aren’t even universally Asian - they specifically come from one nation, Japan, which has a disproportionate reach in Western pop culture.

Things get a little dicey when that leads, as it did in 1e Tian materials, to the whole continent being full of Samurai. That’s a little tacky… but quickly rises to being outright offensive when you’re making Fantasy Korean and Fantasy Filipino characters into “Samurai,” or saying that any fighting traditions of any other culture there doesn’t deserve a full class treatment while Japan apparently earns two. Tian Xia already has three Japanese nations (Jinin, Minkai, and Shokuro) - enshrining that favoritism in the mechanics, too, is not the move.

If any classes should be “paired” with the continent, it’s the upcoming Kineticist and a reworked 2e Shaman, not “Japanese Fighter” and “Japanese Rogue.”

The same could not be already said about the currently monks?

They are clearly based in kungfu/wushu concept instead of a general brawler. I still don't see why there's no space for samurais/ninjas and any other more specific culture oriented classes. Make those classes doesn't mean that make they need to be the only one prevalent in the region. If paizo wants they could make other classes representing other cultures or a big class that englobes then all or subclasses for some currently existing ones (but I still think that archetypes are insufficient to fit all complex needs).

isn't that the point of archetype system

imagine if knight of last wall are a class instead of 40 archetype feat anyone can get

or all of those feat limited to fighter and champion

it would be extreme waste

with dragon throat scale and unleash psyche psychic can do a lot of damage against most enemy single or multiple

Are people seriously waiting until after time, research, writing, and money has been sunk into the books all about anachronistic Asia on another planet to raise questions about how it could be culturally insensitive or inappropriate... seriously?

People have been practically begging for these books for years now and Paizo does everything any reasonable and ethical company could ever be expected to do (and more) when it comes to trying to approach these things from a respectful and genuine angle.

Is the problem the actual terms "ninja" and "samurai" and how it's been done to death by hacks, the ignorant, sometimes racist, and lazy writers over the last 30-odd years? That's... not what we should expect from the folks behind this and I think we all already know it. Shoot, my main qualm about this as someone who isn't really too hyped is that it's going to feel TOO bland and "leveled" between all the cooks in the kitchen plus a hefty dose of assurance that it's not directly working from real earth cultures on 1-to-1 basis... The last thing people should be worrying about from my perspective is that it will be problematic.

the problem is not other pop culture

but how horrible samurai and ninja are in 1e

2e should avoid the same mistake

I think the issue is that Ninjas and Samurai aren’t even universally Asian - they specifically come from one nation, Japan, which has a disproportionate reach in Western pop culture.

Things get a little dicey when that leads, as it did in 1e Tian materials, to the whole continent being full of Samurai. That’s a little tacky… but quickly rises to being outright offensive when you’re making Fantasy Korean and Fantasy Filipino characters into “Samurai,” or saying that any fighting traditions of any other culture there doesn’t deserve a full class treatment while Japan apparently earns two. Tian Xia already has three Japanese nations (Jinin, Minkai, and Shokuro) - enshrining that favoritism in the mechanics, too, is not the move.

If any classes should be “paired” with the continent, it’s the upcoming Kineticist and a reworked 2e Shaman, not “Japanese Fighter” and “Japanese Rogue.”

jinin is not a japan name

so that might change in 2e

sleeve of storage

level 3 scroll of heal

boots of bounding and glove of storing are too expensive for level 7 character

could buy later