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Should a lich make use of a polymorph effect, what lich abilities do they lose and which do they keep?
What if the lich used alter self or similar magic to look like a living human? Could they still make use of their paralyzing touch, undead immunities, fearful aura, and other abilities?
Why or why not?
EDIT: Say, for example, that a human lich used shapechange to turn into a living dragon. What would it lose or keep? Now, what would it lose or keep if the human lich turned into an undead dragon lich?
As far as I can tell, one's creature type does not change due to polymorph and many of the lich's abilities don't seem to be based on their physical form insomuch as their being infused with evil, powerful necromantic energies. Another thing to note is that nearly any creature that can be polymorphed into could potentially be a lich.
For some reason I thought Lich's were immune to polymorph - probably wrong though.
They are immune to polymorph effects, but it specifically states that liches can drop this immunity at will.
Edit: I suppose they used to be immune to polymorph. I can't seem to find that verbage at the moment, though. Guess they changed it during the conversion?
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
Compare that with the lich template:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/lich.html#lichIt is pretty clear you would lose the fear aura, but it is hard to say if things like the paralyzing touch "depends on your original form. I would lean towards it not being related to physical form, and more of an energy thing.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.Compare that with the lich template:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/lich.html#lichIt is pretty clear you would lose the fear aura, but it is hard to say if things like the paralyzing touch "depends on your original form. I would lean towards it not being related to physical form, and more of an energy thing.
Heh, I thought the paralyzing touch would be obvious (it is clearly denoted as being a natural attack) and the fear aura not so much (since a lich is terrifying in any form).
Guess it just shows how hard this is going to be to answer.
You lose... +5 natural armor bonus, DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, Immunity to cold and electricity, your undead traits, you gain your Con score back along with the HP that it entails, you lose darkvision, you lose channel resistance, your melee touch attack for negative energy, your fear aura, your paralyzing touch, your racial bonus to perception, sense motive and stealth checks.
You become an average member of that race, but you keep the ability to add features from your class to yourself or use features of your class. Seeing as a lich template isn't a feature of a class, it'd be lost entirely except for the stat bonuses, which are considered "racial" or "base" or "gained from levelling" stat modifiers, which you don't lose. Otherwise gnome and halfling druids would gain 2 str on top of the beast shape bonuses whenever they shape shift.
Say, for example, that a human lich used shapechange to turn into a living dragon. What would it lose or keep? Now, what would it lose or keep if the human lich turned into an undead dragon lich?
The human lich turns into a dragon, loses the above, gains everything in Form of the Dragon III calls out, including vulnerability to cold for being a red dragon.
He can't turn into an undead dragon because there's no Form of the Undead. An undead dragon is undead, and no longer a dragon. By transforming into a dragon, he loses almost all of his bonuses.
It is pretty clear you would lose the fear aura, but it is hard to say if things like the paralyzing touch "depends on your original form. I would lean towards it not being related to physical form, and more of an energy thing.
I disagree. By turning into the lich you gain these bonuses and detriments. If he stopped being a lich-- ie, was turned back into a human-- would he lose these bonuses? If so, he loses them when he polymorphs. At least, that's my interpretation.
EDIT: I think the lich might even lose his phylactery rejuvenation ability when he polymorphs. That's no good.
You do know that your creature type doesn't change, right Ice Titan?
I don't think he would lose ANY of his undead traits regardless of his chosen form. If nothing else, the sheer amount of paperwork for it would be ridiculous.
If anything I think it might be impossible for the lich to turn into anything living, since his type is always undead. (He might look living, but that doesn't make it so.)
As for the phylactery rejuvenation, that is not at all based on his physical form, so he keeps it regardless.
yeah, it may change alot..but the spell will not make you live again..your dead and you'll stay dead. Your soul is trapped in your phylactery, nothing will make you live as long as that is still intact
I've always thought someone transforming into a dragon or turning into a gnoll and still being the subject of Bane for humanoid (human) inexplicably stupid. The same argument goes for an undead lich transforming into a living and breathing animal. I guess that's my own interpretation.
It slipped my mind that the phylactery was a magical item that's essentially giving him a permanent supernatural ability. So he wouldn't lose it-- he'd just rejuvenate as his original form instead of a dragon, which is a given.
Also, I think he'd lose his immunities-- especially versus fort saves-- as a polymorphed living creature. It doesn't make any sense not to. It's dependent on his physical form, definitely. If he wasn't dead he wouldn't be immune to fortitude saves and mind-affecting effects.
I guess it's kind of like the change between a humanoid and an outsider for a monk. Except more annoying.
Anyone else notice that a lich is permanently immune to baleful polymorph, but is in no way immune to transformation effects? It's so he can turn into a creature that's ambiguous about whether or not it's living or dead. A lich gets special access to Schrodinger's beast shape I through IV.
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I've always thought someone transforming into a dragon or turning into a gnoll and still being the subject of Bane for humanoid (human) inexplicably stupid. The same argument goes for an undead lich transforming into a living and breathing animal. I guess that's my own interpretation.
It slipped my mind that the phylactery was a magical item that's essentially giving him a permanent supernatural ability. So he wouldn't lose it-- he'd just rejuvenate as his original form instead of a dragon, which is a given.
Also, I think he'd lose his immunities-- especially versus fort saves-- as a polymorphed living creature. It doesn't make any sense not to. It's dependent on his physical form, definitely. If he wasn't dead he wouldn't be immune to fortitude saves and mind-affecting effects.
I guess it's kind of like the change between a humanoid and an outsider for a monk. Except more annoying.
Anyone else notice that a lich is permanently immune to baleful polymorph, but is in no way immune to transformation effects? It's so he can turn into a creature that's ambiguous about whether or not it's living or dead. A lich gets special access to Schrodinger's beast shape I through IV.
so should they recalculate hp to? do their hd suddenly revert to d6's or would they keep the d8's even tho they aren't undead anymore by your logic?
honestly you're over thinking this.
and it makes total sense for a bane weapon to still effect you based on your normal type. you aren't actually the type you are simulating, you are still your original type. also give player a chance to tell somethings different.
"whaddya mean that dragon isnt reacting to my dragon bane shurikens... maybe its a wizard"
dependent on form :
DR 15/bludgeoning + magic
darkvision 60'
natural armor +5
racial bonus to stealth, (perception possibly, but I skip it)
I think you would keep all the other abilities, any form you'd assume will still be undead.. you dont spontaneously get a constitution score, still keep your undead traits and resistances I don't see tied to form directly.
I've always thought someone transforming into a dragon or turning into a gnoll and still being the subject of Bane for humanoid (human) inexplicably stupid. The same argument goes for an undead lich transforming into a living and breathing animal. I guess that's my own interpretation.
It slipped my mind that the phylactery was a magical item that's essentially giving him a permanent supernatural ability. So he wouldn't lose it-- he'd just rejuvenate as his original form instead of a dragon, which is a given.
Also, I think he'd lose his immunities-- especially versus fort saves-- as a polymorphed living creature. It doesn't make any sense not to. It's dependent on his physical form, definitely. If he wasn't dead he wouldn't be immune to fortitude saves and mind-affecting effects.
I guess it's kind of like the change between a humanoid and an outsider for a monk. Except more annoying.
Anyone else notice that a lich is permanently immune to baleful polymorph, but is in no way immune to transformation effects? It's so he can turn into a creature that's ambiguous about whether or not it's living or dead. A lich gets special access to Schrodinger's beast shape I through IV.
so should they recalculate hp to? do their hd suddenly revert to d6's or would they keep the d8's even tho they aren't undead anymore by your logic?
honestly you're over thinking this.
Their HD wouldn't change since their HD is part of their class. I would assume they keep deriving their HP from Cha, but I'm not even sure if that's correct. Too many variables.
I'm just asking the question "If the lich was redeemed and turned back into a man, what would he keep and what would he lose?" The things he loses are dependent on his form. Would you say that he keeps his undead traits or his paralyzing touch as a human? If the answer is no, he loses them.
I'm assuming that an elf who transforms into a dragon loses low-light vision and keen senses and gains dragon senses. Unless he transforms into a dragon with floppy ears, I guess. I wonder if you do lose racial bonuses in transit with forms... I know an awakened hawk wizard would trade down his racial bonus in fly for the type of flight maneuverability for the dragon's maneuverability, but would he lose his bonus to perception?
Augh, it's so vague. And I'm seeing such an open-ended equation here. Blarglrbletgb
Just a thought- Check out the vampire, and see what he would lose when shifting into different forms. It might give you some guidance.
I think determining what is dependent on (physical) form comes down to some serious Pathfinder philosophy about the nature of where supernatural abilities come from. For example, the DR/bludgeoning is probably from physical form, but the DR/magic probably transcends the physical.
PS Ravingdork - I would probably rule that you lose all ability adjustments from age when you become a lich.
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I've always thought someone transforming into a dragon or turning into a gnoll and still being the subject of Bane for humanoid (human) inexplicably stupid. The same argument goes for an undead lich transforming into a living and breathing animal. I guess that's my own interpretation.
It slipped my mind that the phylactery was a magical item that's essentially giving him a permanent supernatural ability. So he wouldn't lose it-- he'd just rejuvenate as his original form instead of a dragon, which is a given.
Also, I think he'd lose his immunities-- especially versus fort saves-- as a polymorphed living creature. It doesn't make any sense not to. It's dependent on his physical form, definitely. If he wasn't dead he wouldn't be immune to fortitude saves and mind-affecting effects.
I guess it's kind of like the change between a humanoid and an outsider for a monk. Except more annoying.
Anyone else notice that a lich is permanently immune to baleful polymorph, but is in no way immune to transformation effects? It's so he can turn into a creature that's ambiguous about whether or not it's living or dead. A lich gets special access to Schrodinger's beast shape I through IV.
so should they recalculate hp to? do their hd suddenly revert to d6's or would they keep the d8's even tho they aren't undead anymore by your logic?
honestly you're over thinking this.
Their HD wouldn't change since their HD is part of their class. I would assume they keep deriving their HP from Cha, but I'm not even sure if that's correct. Too many variables.
I'm just asking the question "If the lich was redeemed and turned back into a man, what would he keep and what would he lose?" The things he loses are dependent on his form. Would you say that he keeps his undead traits or his paralyzing touch as a human? If the answer is no, he loses them.
I'm assuming that an elf who transforms into a dragon loses low-light vision and keen senses and gains...
no, a wizard has d6's, but when they become a lich it becomes d8s. so by your logic it would have to revert when they polymorph, since they gain a con and become living.
guys lets look at this really, really simple like..Polymorph does not change the "your dead " part. Lich is a templete and does not go away, so no matter what form your in your still undead and a lich.
You would keep the templet in all forms, Lich can be added to them all anyhow so none of your powers would leave as your always an undead lich, no matter what form your in.
The only thing ya have to worry about is elemetals and constructs really, other then that none of your powers would change.
no, a wizard has d6's, but when they become a lich it becomes d8s. so by your logic it would have to revert when they polymorph, since they gain a con and become living.
No.
Hit Dice: Change all of the creature’s racial Hit Dice
to d8s. All Hit Dice derived from class levels remain
unchanged. As undead, liches use their Charisma modifiers
to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).
guys lets look at this really, really simple like..Polymorph does not change the "your dead " part. Lich is a templete and does not go away, so no matter what form your in your still undead and a lich.
You would keep the templet in all forms, Lich can be added to them all anyhow so none of your powers would leave as your always an undead lich, no matter what form your in.
The only thing ya have to worry about is elemetals and constructs really, other then that none of your powers would change.
That's actually kind of what I was hoping for.
That is how it looks to me, nothing can bring you back to life as long as the phylactery has not been destroyed, same with a vampire once your dead polymorh does not fix dead. So now your limited only by the templet powers , the templet can be added to any living being, so as long as you don't become an elemental or a stature or something I am not sure how you would loose anything as they are granted by your undead state, which would not change based on body as long as that body was once a living critter.
Keep in mind however that if you polymorph you will still look dead, as your dead. YA would need a 2nd spell to hide that. If it was me running the game even in elemental form you would look off, blackish water, black flames, pitted worn and cracked stone and the like.
That is how it looks to me, nothing can bring you back to life as long as the phylactery has not been destroyed, same with a vampire once your dead polymorh does not fix dead. So now your limited only by the templet powers , the templet can be added to any living being, so as long as you don't become an elemental or a stature or something I am not sure how you would loose anything as they are granted by your undead state, which would not change based on body as long as that body was once a living critter.
Keep in mind however that if you polymorph you will still look dead, as your dead. YA would need a 2nd spell to hide that. If it was me running the game even in elemental form you would look off, blackish water, black flames, pitted worn and cracked stone and the like.
Does it really matter if I still look dead when I'm getting a +20 bonus to my disguise checks to not look dead? :P
Yes it does, that is kinda an auto fail. Unless you use magic your gonna always looked like something that has been dead longer then a few hundred years. Ya look like a mummy with no wrappings. You simply can not hide that, unless ya got some full head to toe coving every single inch with nothing viable clothing on. even your eyes or the shinny lights that are now in the empty eyesockets are a auto give away.
We are not even gonna talk about auto failing with animals or anything with scent :)
guys lets look at this really, really simple like..Polymorph does not change the "your dead " part. Lich is a templete and does not go away, so no matter what form your in your still undead and a lich.
You would keep the templet in all forms, Lich can be added to them all anyhow so none of your powers would leave as your always an undead lich, no matter what form your in.
The only thing ya have to worry about is elemetals and constructs really, other then that none of your powers would change.
The fact that a lich is a template has absolutely nothing to do with it, you could probably convert half of the creatures in the bestiary to templates. You apply the template and you have a creature, outside the fact that you can not polymorph into a templated creature it does not interact with the various polymorph spells at all.
It does not actually change the creature you are but you do assume it's form and gain some of it's abilities, so you might look alive but you aren't. I trust the magic will give you the 'illusion' of life, as well as a disguise check +20 can make it look.
The form dependent abilities are a bit vague.. I am fairly sure darkvision will be gone, natural armor will not stack and I'd say DR goes too, though that might be debatable.
No the powers and ability of the templet depends on it, not what forum you have. So as long as your new forum could have the templet you loose nothing. You may gain stuff but you loose nothing that comes from being a lich and is granted by the templet. As you do not stop being dead nor do you stop being a lich.
No the powers and ability of the templet depends on it, not what forum you have. So as long as your new forum could have the templet you loose nothing. You may gain stuff but you loose nothing that comes from being a lich and is granted by the templet. As you do not stop being dead nor do you stop being a lich.
A polymorphed half-dragon does not stop being a half-dragon, but it's form changes. You do not change into a giant with the half-dragon template smacked upon it, even though a giant could have the half-dragon template.
So you would not have wings, nor the senses, claw and bite attacks and anything else you judge part of the form.. that part seems clear as day to me.. the only real question for me is what is considered part of the form of a creature.
A lich is not a half dragon, his powers are not basied on what form he is but on what he is. What your saying is along the lines of " we can stop you from being a vampire or werewolf with polymorph!" which simply does not work.
Your dead, you stay dead. Your powers are based off the fact that "hey your dead" and doe not change based on forum as the template can be added to any living critter. You have no biology to shift around or change, your dead. So polymorphing with change how ya look but your new form is both dead and a lich unless you change into something that can not be a lich
A lich is not a half dragon, his powers are not basied on what form he is but on what he is. What your saying is along the lines of " we can stop you from being a vampire or werewolf with polymorph!" which simply does not work.
Your dead, you stay dead. Your powers are based off the fact that "hey your dead" and doe not change based on forum as the template can be added to any living critter. You have no biology to shift around or change, your dead. So polymorphing with change how ya look but your new form is both dead and a lich unless you change into something that can not be a lich
I am simply saying you do not simply slap the template into a creature you polymorph, a half-dragon stays a half-dragon even if it's form changes, you will just have to separate what the bodily form of the creature added to it's abilities.
It won't be alive after changing form (though it probably appears so), neither would it lose it's undead traits or type, or assume the type of the new form, but it won't be in the form of a lich. This would mean it keeps darkvision I suppose.
"Undead
Undead are once-living creatures animated by spiritual
or supernatural forces. An undead creature has the following
features.
• d8 Hit Die.
• Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium
progression).
• Good Will saves.
• Skill points equal to 4 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit
Die. Many undead, however, are mindless and gain no skill
points or feats. The following are class skills for undead:
Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcane),
Knowledge (religion), Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft,
and Stealth.
Traits: An undead creature possesses the following traits(unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).
• No Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score
in place of their Constitution score when calculating
hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that
relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath
weapon’s DC).
• Darkvision 60 feet.
• Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms,
compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
• Immunity to death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep
effects, and stunning.
• Not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy
drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores
(Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to
exhaustion and fatigue effects.
• Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence
score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such
as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast
healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s
Intelligence score.
• Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless
the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
• Not at risk of death from massive damage, but is
immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points.
• Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities.
Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead
creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the
living creatures they were before becoming undead.
• Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and
any weapons mentioned in its entry.
• Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or
heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types.
Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient
with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are
proficient with any form of armor.
• Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep."
DR will be a likely ability to lose, DR/bludgeoning at least seems likely and a function of form, DR magic I am undecided. Assuming a different form will negate the natural armor you have in your original shape, I would negate the racial bonus to perception and stealth too.
I disagree, your making things more complex then it needs to be, you stay a lich always. No matter what form your in you simply do not stop being a lich ever.
Your powers are NOT dependent upon form as long as that form is a living{or used to be alive in this case} critter. You never loose your lich ability unless your form could not be a lich, which in my opinion would mean you could not change into that form.
Your undead type is "lich" so as long as your undead you are always a lich with all abilities as they are not form dependent. Your new form will always be undead and a lich.
A half dragon is and always will be form dependent a lich is not as it's power does not depend upon what form it takes.
I disagree, your making things more complex then it needs to be, you stay a lich always. No matter what form your in you simply do not stop being a lich ever.
Your powers are NOT dependent upon form as long as that form is a living{or used to be alive in this case} critter. You never loose your lich ability unless your form could not be a lich, which in my opinion would mean you could not change into that form.
Your undead type is "lich" so as long as your undead you are always a lich with all abilities as they are not form dependent. Your new form will always be undead and a lich.
A half dragon is and always will be form dependent a lich is not as it's power does not depend upon what form it takes.
It seems obvious that a creature's abilities might only be in part form dependent then, your solution is simple in making exceptions for creatures on a case by case basis, that is not a less complicated way to handle polymorph magic. Basically you either argue that the lich's abilities are not form dependent or that a lich transcends that limitation by assuming the lich form of any creature.
"Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature’s type. Polymorph
spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a
template or an advanced version of a creature."
"While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form."
I will agree to disagree.
You can't look like a lich if your not, but you can't look alive when your undead either There is no exception, his powers are depended upon the template, not the form he takes. He may loose race based ability and such but not those granted by being a lich.
And yeah we'll have to disagree because I don't understand how he would not be a lich just because he polymorphed, I glad curing lycanthorpy and vampirism is so easy.
You can't look like a lich if your not, but you can't look alive when your undead either There is no exception, his powers are depended upon the template, not the form he takes. He may loose race based ability and such but not those granted by being a lich.
And yeah we'll have to disagree because I don't understand how he would not be a lich just because he polymorphed, I glad curing lycanthorpy and vampirism is so easy.
How do you get the idea it cures lycantrophy / vampirism, what abilities do they have that are form dependent ?
A vampire will still burn in sunlight, but he will lose his natural attack, armor and possibly DR, though again I doubt it in the case of DR/silver or magic.
Only natural attack it would loose would be one from it's old form. The slam would stay as would the Armor and all the rest. They are not form dependent but based off it being a vampire and would stay. If you do not stop being a vampire then you don't lose the powers that make you a vampire.
Looking for more thoughts on the matter. Also, now that we have a FAQ system, please use it on the first post if you feel this is something that needs clarification.
I'm not sure I get what Seeker is getting at. I mean, are you saying a Lich could NEVER mask it's Lich appearance? Even with Illusion or Transmutation spells of level six or higher? That makes even less sense for me than a Lich who uses spells to make himself look alive. And really, if being a Lich is so damned hard to hide, why aren't all Wizards making themselves into Vampires? Almost same rate of survivability, and they'd also look more "pretty" than before, if not also turning people on.
Should a lich make use of a polymorph effect, what lich abilities do they lose and which do they keep?
I don't believe that they would lose any of there abilities, here are my reasons:
1. A polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +20 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature.
2. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor.
Here we see that the lich would possible gain some Armor and or stat buffs.
3. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses
4. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume.
5. In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks.
6. If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.
7. Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals.
. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.
9. you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision)[B]
[B]10 as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form.
11. You also lose any class features that depend upon form,
12. but those that allow you to add features(such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.
So a lich using polymorph to turn into a human would lose : Nothing, as the lich is a template that can be added to any race that can create a phylactery. Thus none of it's powers or abilities are reliant upon physical form.
In general it is my personal biased opinion that the a Lich whom uses the poloymorph spell will not lose anything. The reason for this conclusion is the the Lich template can be applied to any living creature that has intelligence enough to create a phylactery. Thus as long as the lich take on a form that is a living creature that can create a phylactery he can not lose any of this abilities.
If the lich chooses a form that normally can not speak, it does not matter because a Lich does not use a tongue to shape words.
So if a lich turned into a Wolverine he would gain the following abilities.
Sent and a +2 to STR and a +2 natural armor bonus, SPD 30 Feet and Climb 10 Ft.
"This stocky, muscular mammal is the size of a badger, its snarling lips revealing a mouth full of yellow teeth, and a pale blue light shines from where its eyes should be. A distinct almost palatable arua of dread follows this creature."
One has too consider that a lich can be just a floating skull with no lower jaw bone, or hands arms body or feet and can still cast spells and talk.
Again my reasoning is soley based on the fact that a Lich is a template that can be added to virtually any creature.
Even if a lich had eyes he would still not be using them to see..lol