Secrets of magic hype

[Laclale♪]

Still better than Absalom Book's "Unknown" you know?

[wegrata]

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Maybe my level of system mastery isn't good enough to see that structural changes your referring to, could you describe where spells that target a single opponent's save and provide moderate damage with a debuff doesn't work? I can't see it from a balance perspective, it would be more spells like sudden bolt, that deal less damage and have a rider.

They work like I said you can make that character but it's an archetype that probably won't get much more damage. I doubt it will get much better than the sorcerer 2 extra per spell level depending on your bloodline. So I really doubt they will give much support to blasting since it already works and there's not much more that can be done to it I think.

The whole structural changes is because casters always hit at -1 to -3 due to how proficiency works(they don't benefit from item bonuses) this is the biggest problem with blasters they are quite dependent on the opponent weakest save to remain competent. While a martial casts sword all day without problem.

I don't want bigger blast spells like I've said a bunch of times, I want more varied blast spells that do less damage and debuffs targets. The attack roll problem, and it is a problem, is why I asked for additional single target blast spells that target various saves.

I don't want casters to be better than martials, what I want is blasting to be as useful as support in all fights.

[jimthegray]

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Maybe my level of system mastery isn't good enough to see that structural changes your referring to, could you describe where spells that target a single opponent's save and provide moderate damage with a debuff doesn't work? I can't see it from a balance perspective, it would be more spells like sudden bolt, that deal less damage and have a rider.

They work like I said you can make that character but it's an archetype that probably won't get much more damage. I doubt it will get much better than the sorcerer 2 extra per spell level depending on your bloodline. So I really doubt they will give much support to blasting since it already works and there's not much more that can be done to it I think.

The whole structural changes is because casters always hit at -1 to -3 due to how proficiency works(they don't benefit from item bonuses) this is the biggest problem with blasters they are quite dependent on the opponent weakest save to remain competent. While a martial casts sword all day without problem.

i just got my secrets of magic 1st email so it appears to be on track , its saying ship 1 to 20 days lol

[oholoko]

wegrata wrote:

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Maybe my level of system mastery isn't good enough to see that structural changes your referring to, could you describe where spells that target a single opponent's save and provide moderate damage with a debuff doesn't work? I can't see it from a balance perspective, it would be more spells like sudden bolt, that deal less damage and have a rider.

They work like I said you can make that character but it's an archetype that probably won't get much more damage. I doubt it will get much better than the sorcerer 2 extra per spell level depending on your bloodline. So I really doubt they will give much support to blasting since it already works and there's not much more that can be done to it I think.

The whole structural changes is because casters always hit at -1 to -3 due to how proficiency works(they don't benefit from item bonuses) this is the biggest problem with blasters they are quite dependent on the opponent weakest save to remain competent. While a martial casts sword all day without problem.

I don't want bigger blast spells like I've said a bunch of times, I want more varied blast spells that do less damage and debuffs targets. The attack roll problem, and it is a problem, is why I asked for additional single target blast spells that target various saves.

I don't want casters to be better than martials, what I want is blasting to be as useful as support in all fights.

Those are probably coming I mean. Something similar to phantasmal killer and things like hydraulic push are quite easy to come. Maybe a simple condition+damage. I doubt any harder conditions than sluggish 1, enfeabled 1 and similar ones but those I would like to see.

[wegrata]

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Maybe my level of system mastery isn't good enough to see that structural changes your referring to, could you describe where spells that target a single opponent's save and provide moderate damage with a debuff doesn't work? I can't see it from a balance perspective, it would be more spells like sudden bolt, that deal less damage and have a rider.

They work like I said you can make that character but it's an archetype that probably won't get much more damage. I doubt it will get much better than the sorcerer 2 extra per spell level depending on your bloodline. So I really doubt they will give much support to blasting since it already works and there's not much more that can be done to it I think.

The whole structural changes is because casters always hit at -1 to -3 due to how proficiency works(they don't benefit from item bonuses) this is the biggest problem with blasters they are quite dependent on the opponent weakest save to remain competent. While a martial casts sword all day without problem.

I don't want bigger blast spells like I've said a bunch of times, I want more varied blast spells that do less damage and debuffs targets. The attack roll problem, and it is a problem, is why I asked for additional single target blast spells that target various saves.

I don't want casters to be better than martials, what I want is blasting to be as useful as support in all fights.

Those are probably coming I mean. Something similar to phantasmal killer and things like hydraulic push are quite easy to come. Maybe a simple condition+damage. I doubt any harder conditions than sluggish 1, enfeabled 1 and similar ones but those I would like to see.

I'd like to see some additional on top of that, like cold or stone granting bludgeoning vulnerability and things like that. I guess what else I'd like to see is more types of debuff than various ways of giving a status or circumstance penalty.

[oholoko]

wegrata wrote:

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Maybe my level of system mastery isn't good enough to see that structural changes your referring to, could you describe where spells that target a single opponent's save and provide moderate damage with a debuff doesn't work? I can't see it from a balance perspective, it would be more spells like sudden bolt, that deal less damage and have a rider.

They work like I said you can make that character but it's an archetype that probably won't get much more damage. I doubt it will get much better than the sorcerer 2 extra per spell level depending on your bloodline. So I really doubt they will give much support to blasting since it already works and there's not much more that can be done to it I think.

The whole structural changes is because casters always hit at -1 to -3 due to how proficiency works(they don't benefit from item bonuses) this is the biggest problem with blasters they are quite dependent on the opponent weakest save to remain competent. While a martial casts sword all day without problem.

I don't want bigger blast spells like I've said a bunch of times, I want more varied blast spells that do less damage and debuffs targets. The attack roll problem, and it is a problem, is why I asked for additional single target blast spells that target various saves.

I don't want casters to be better than martials, what I want is blasting to be as useful as support in all fights.

Those are probably coming I mean. Something similar to phantasmal killer and things like hydraulic push are quite easy to come. Maybe a simple condition+damage. I doubt any harder conditions than sluggish 1, enfeabled 1 and similar ones but those I would like to see.

I'd like to see some additional on top of that, like cold or stone granting bludgeoning vulnerability and things like that. I guess what else I'd like to see is more types of debuff than various ways of giving a status or circumstance penalty.

Vulnerability is a bit harder. Currently the only ways to grant vulnerability is the rogue racket isn't it? So probably if a spell inflicts a vulnerability it will be a single turn only or probably not deal damage and give a small weakness for multiple turns. The witch also has a bit of 'vulnerability' option

[wegrata]

Yeah I look at only those 2 places as giving vulnerabilities meaning it's open space to build on.

Yeah I was more looking at something doing damage similar to phantasmal killer but giving a small vulnerability I'd say crit fail 0 rounds, crit success one minute, but doesn't double damage, otherwise 1 round. I'm just spitballing about what would be balanced and satisfying to use.

Vulnerability feels less powerful than bonuses to hit or negatives to ac, purely because it doesn't impact crit rate, but I maybe estimating that incorrectly.

[The-Magic-Sword]

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Xethik wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

secrets of magic just got delayed to September 1st. tech revolution to September 22nd

Whats the source on this?

I thought they said they were committed to the PDF release by August 25th no matter what.

Paizo's twitter

Well, now I have the Big Sad.

I have a really long flight on the 26th and I'd put that time aside for my SoM reading time. Guess I'll just watch Office re-runs or something instead.

TBF, as a subscriber, you should still be on track to get it sooner, if we're talking about the pdf, those should start going out Tuesday or Wednesday of this week.

[Invictus Fatum]

The-Magic-Sword wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Xethik wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

secrets of magic just got delayed to September 1st. tech revolution to September 22nd

Whats the source on this?

I thought they said they were committed to the PDF release by August 25th no matter what.

Paizo's twitter

Well, now I have the Big Sad.

I have a really long flight on the 26th and I'd put that time aside for my SoM reading time. Guess I'll just watch Office re-runs or something instead.

TBF, as a subscriber, you should still be on track to get it sooner, if we're talking about the pdf, those should start going out Tuesday or Wednesday of this week.

That's what I'm hoping as well. The big sad for me is this delays the PFS sanctioning. I had planned out a few games to play a new Summoner, but now will have to cancel those and try to get in similar ones after September.

But hey, s&%~ happens outside of anybody's control. Hopefully I'll at least have the PDF to read very soon.

[Nicolas Paradise]

Yah it seems subs should be less hit by the delay I hope as my order just showed up on my account so hopefully payment and pdfs should be in the next few days.

[Kelseus]

I would be surprised if boxes don't start going out by Wednesday.

[Kalaam]

Big sad on the delay xD
This book will have had a rocky journey all the way through.

[nick1wasd]

Dangit, I preordered through my LFGS at the start of the month, and was expecting to have the book by my group's next session this week. At least it's no more than a single week delay though, which is good enough for me. PAIZO, WE LOVE YOU! EVEN IF IT'S LATE!

[Filthy Lucre]

I got my first subscription email last night too... so fingers crossed PDF today, regardless of twitter/delay?

[Fumarole]

A magic book is never late, nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it means to.

[Paul Watson]

Filthy Lucre wrote:

I got my first subscription email last night too... so fingers crossed PDF today, regardless of twitter/delay?

You’d be very lucky to get it today. There’s usually an 8-12 day shipping window. There’s also usually a day or two between authorisation and shipping so people can get in with corrections, so shipping may not even begin today.

[Filthy Lucre]

Paul Watson wrote:

Filthy Lucre wrote:

I got my first subscription email last night too... so fingers crossed PDF today, regardless of twitter/delay?

You’d be very lucky to get it today. There’s usually an 8-12 day shipping window. There’s also usually a day or two between authorization and shipping so people can get in with corrections, so shipping may not even begin today.

I'd pay an extra $100 just to get the PDF early so it's all just annoying to me.

[oholoko]

wegrata wrote:

Yeah I look at only those 2 places as giving vulnerabilities meaning it's open space to build on.

Yeah I was more looking at something doing damage similar to phantasmal killer but giving a small vulnerability I'd say crit fail 0 rounds, crit success one minute, but doesn't double damage, otherwise 1 round. I'm just spitballing about what would be balanced and satisfying to use.

Vulnerability feels less powerful than bonuses to hit or negatives to ac, purely because it doesn't impact crit rate, but I maybe estimating that incorrectly.

I think the opposite it's a spot to tread really carefully. I mean maybe the spell level as vulnerability is fine for a turn but I don't know vulnerabilities swing a lot one can be from 0 to 10x that damage per round depending on your party.

[wegrata]

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Yeah I look at only those 2 places as giving vulnerabilities meaning it's open space to build on.

Yeah I was more looking at something doing damage similar to phantasmal killer but giving a small vulnerability I'd say crit fail 0 rounds, crit success one minute, but doesn't double damage, otherwise 1 round. I'm just spitballing about what would be balanced and satisfying to use.

Vulnerability feels less powerful than bonuses to hit or negatives to ac, purely because it doesn't impact crit rate, but I maybe estimating that incorrectly.

I think the opposite it's a spot to tread really carefully. I mean maybe the spell level as vulnerability is fine for a turn but I don't know vulnerabilities swing a lot one can be from 0 to 10x that damage per round depending on your party.

The only scenario I've seen for that is usually alchemists bombs doing persistent damage, do you have any other examples of that happens in? Most of the vulnerabilities I've seen on enemies usually amount to an additional ability mod of damage.

[Mad Modron]

Invictus Fatum wrote:

But hey, stuff happens outside of anybody's control. Hopefully I'll at least have the PDF to read very soon.

Does not compute! Everything happens for a reason. Always there is someone or something to blame. Universe is order. Order is all. If you lack this comprehension then you are at fault for your inadequacies! Now get back in line and await your delivery like all the other units. It will come. Order will see to it.

[nick1wasd]

wegrata wrote:

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Yeah I look at only those 2 places as giving vulnerabilities meaning it's open space to build on.

Yeah I was more looking at something doing damage similar to phantasmal killer but giving a small vulnerability I'd say crit fail 0 rounds, crit success one minute, but doesn't double damage, otherwise 1 round. I'm just spitballing about what would be balanced and satisfying to use.

Vulnerability feels less powerful than bonuses to hit or negatives to ac, purely because it doesn't impact crit rate, but I maybe estimating that incorrectly.

I think the opposite it's a spot to tread really carefully. I mean maybe the spell level as vulnerability is fine for a turn but I don't know vulnerabilities swing a lot one can be from 0 to 10x that damage per round depending on your party.

The only scenario I've seen for that is usually alchemists bombs doing persistent damage, do you have any other examples of that happens in? Most of the vulnerabilities I've seen on enemies usually amount to an additional ability mod of damage.

A dex Monk or Flurry Ranger hitting an Omox with a cold iron weapon 4+ times in a round, resulting in ~28 extra damage each turn after calculating decaying to hit ratios. That's nothing to sneeze at, even if it has 5 short of 400 max HP.

[jimthegray]

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

Xethik wrote:

Old_Man_Robot wrote:

belgrath9344 wrote:

secrets of magic just got delayed to September 1st. tech revolution to September 22nd

Whats the source on this?

I thought they said they were committed to the PDF release by August 25th no matter what.

Paizo's twitter

Well, now I have the Big Sad.

I have a really long flight on the 26th and I'd put that time aside for my SoM reading time. Guess I'll just watch Office re-runs or something instead.

my flight to dragoncon is not until the 1st so knock on wood ill have it by then

[Sara Marie]

I wanted to address some of the shipping/logistics conversation without derailing this thread further, so I created a post here: Logistics of New Product Releases on Paizo.com. You can ask questions there, or in the monthly threads that customer service posts for updates on new releases' shipping.

[oholoko]

nick1wasd wrote:

wegrata wrote:

oholoko wrote:

wegrata wrote:

Yeah I look at only those 2 places as giving vulnerabilities meaning it's open space to build on.

Yeah I was more looking at something doing damage similar to phantasmal killer but giving a small vulnerability I'd say crit fail 0 rounds, crit success one minute, but doesn't double damage, otherwise 1 round. I'm just spitballing about what would be balanced and satisfying to use.

Vulnerability feels less powerful than bonuses to hit or negatives to ac, purely because it doesn't impact crit rate, but I maybe estimating that incorrectly.

I think the opposite it's a spot to tread really carefully. I mean maybe the spell level as vulnerability is fine for a turn but I don't know vulnerabilities swing a lot one can be from 0 to 10x that damage per round depending on your party.

The only scenario I've seen for that is usually alchemists bombs doing persistent damage, do you have any other examples of that happens in? Most of the vulnerabilities I've seen on enemies usually amount to an additional ability mod of damage.

A dex Monk or Flurry Ranger hitting an Omox with a cold iron weapon 4+ times in a round, resulting in ~28 extra damage each turn after calculating decaying to hit ratios. That's nothing to sneeze at, even if it has 5 short of 400 max HP.

A regular spell is about 1d10-2d6 per level. One giving a weakness will usually deal an extra 3 stances of damage at least(I am guessing weakness until end of next turn so that you can take advantage at least once).

So while a regular spell deals 10d6(35 damage or so) one weakness 5+5d6 will deal(17.5+15) if 3 extra hits connect. It's not great but insert more strikes from allies and it can easily shatter that barrier.
Edit: do remember some small sure hits/saves become a lot stronger when a weakness is involved because your hit ranger instead of being 10+ becomes 2+ and the weakness is never halved.

[wegrata]

I think we have a disconnect, the spell wouldn't apply a weakness it exploits in what I'm thinking. It would be a possible damage buff to the other party members primarily. I was thinking something based off of sudden bolt. But drop the die size by 2

So in this case I'm thinking a level 2 spell

4d8 cold damage plus spell level bludgeoning weakness
Heightened +1 increase damage by 1d8

So 18 damage for this spell (assuming a failed save)

Weakness: 2 bludgeoning

If you have 2 martials doing bludgeoning and say all 3 attacks hit for both and add an extra in case of monk or ranger takes it to 7 attacks

We're at 14 + 18 which comes out to 32 damage for a level 2 spell

Vs sudden bolt wich is 4d12 averaging out to 22 damage

So it is too strong in that scenario.

If we reduce the number of hits since it would be a boss, it becomes more reasonable but probably still to strong. Unless we drop it down to 3 attacks which would take it to 26

Id have to do a lot more math to compare it to something like heroism which I think is more in line with expected resource cost. Given heroism affects crit chance and the like, but it only affects one party member.

Calculating average party damage vs an expected encounter with things like this becomes much more difficult but ultimately much closer to showing balance of the options.

[Gortle]

So I assume that people here are not all aware of

Due to international shipping delays Paizo's August product release date, originally planned for August 25, 2021, has been pushed back to 9/1/2021. Additionally, the Starfinder Tech Revolution hardcover has been delayed and will be pushed to a September 22, 2021 release.

[Nicolas Paradise]

Gortle wrote:

So I assume that people here are not all aware of

Due to international shipping delays Paizo's August product release date, originally planned for August 25, 2021, has been pushed back to 9/1/2021. Additionally, the Starfinder Tech Revolution hardcover has been delayed and will be pushed to a September 22, 2021 release.

It was already mentioned and linked to up thread and Customer Service also made a new thread for discussion of the delay and shipping situation.

[Ezekieru]

Gortle wrote:

So I assume that people here are not all aware of

Due to international shipping delays Paizo's August product release date, originally planned for August 25, 2021, has been pushed back to 9/1/2021. Additionally, the Starfinder Tech Revolution hardcover has been delayed and will be pushed to a September 22, 2021 release.

Already mentioned previously in the thread, plus this doesn't affect the shipping from subscribers. Shipping for subs should start tomorrow morning, and goes on until the new street date of the 1st.

[Gortle]

Sorry then. This thread fills up so fast.

[Laclale♪]

Ahm... anyway, Truename.

[oholoko]

Laclale♪ wrote:

Ahm... anyway, Truename.

I hope it involves a lot of mental stuff and some rituals haha.

[Blave]

The first AMAs are up on the PF2 subreddit! It's happening, y'all!

[Invictus Fatum]

Blave wrote:

The first AMAs are up on the PF2 subreddit! It's happening, y'all!

I'm praying as I'm refreshing. Here's hoping the shipping gods smile on me and send it out today.

[Filthy Lucre]

I got mine!

[Nicolas Paradise]

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

[John R.]

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

What happened with the Martial Caster feat for the Magus?

[Kyrone]

John R. wrote:

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

What happened with the Martial Caster feat for the Magus?

Now a lvl 7 feature, works the same way as the playtest (2 slots) with the specific list of spells. Hybrid studies add to that list.

[jimthegray]

got my pdfs!!!

[Laclale♪]

Anyway, I can't see ask about Truename in first AMA.

[Xethik]

So excited for mine to ship!

[Nicolas Paradise]

John R. wrote:

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

What happened with the Martial Caster feat for the Magus?

It is called Studious Spells now and it is a 7th level class feature. It grants 2 2nd level slots that allow you to prepare a small list of spells for all magi and a few specific ones based on your hybrid study. The slots raise in level at 11 and 13 to 3rd and 4th and add new allowed spells. So ultimately it is still only 2 extra slots.

Cool little style thing don't remember if it was in the playtest but I really like it.

Secrets of Magic wrote:

Because you’re a magus, you can draw replacement sigils with the tip of your weapon or your free hand for spells requiring material components, replacing them with somatic components instead of needing a material component pouch.

[Laclale♪]

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

Truename spell please? And Truename x Aeon?

[Shisumo]

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

How does the elementalist archetype work? Is it magus compatible?

[Nicolas Paradise]

Laclale♪ wrote:

Anyway, I can't see ask about Truename in first AMA.

There are 3 spells one 4th one 6th and one cantrip as well as a feat and an item that interact with truenames.

[Laclale♪]

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Laclale♪ wrote:

Anyway, I can't see ask about Truename in first AMA.

There are 3 spells one 4th one 6th and one cantrip as well as a feat and an item that interact with truenames.

Is item just casts innate Truename spell, or Truename is in trigger or requires?

[John R.]

Can Bloodragers be recreated with Cathartic magic; can Barbarians now cast spells while raging without having to use Moment of Clarity?

[Nicolas Paradise]

Laclale♪ wrote:

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Laclale♪ wrote:

Anyway, I can't see ask about Truename in first AMA.

There are 3 spells one 4th one 6th and one cantrip as well as a feat and an item that interact with truenames.

Is item just casts innate Truename spell, or Truename is in trigger or requires?

It allows the effets of Invoke Truename(one of the spells) to always affect the creature whos true name is engraved on the amulet.

Shisumo wrote:

Nicolas Paradise wrote:

Just downloaded mine am at work for another hour but it is slow so I will answer questions if I can.

How does the elementalist archetype work? Is it magus compatible?

Looks that way it seems any Arcane or Primal spellcaster can take the dedication and it completely replaces your normal spell list.

[Nicolas Paradise]

John R. wrote:

Can Bloodragers be recreated with Cathartic magic; can Barbarians now cast spells while raging without having to use Moment of Clarity?

A quick skim of the section I would say no. The dedication still uses the normal Cast a spell activity and the new reaction has the concentration trait. The dedication does allow you to pick any tradition if you aren't already a caster tho.

So tldr Moment of Clarity will still be needed.

[Prince Setehrael]

How does the Shadow Reservoir work for the Shadowcaster?

[Nicolas Paradise]

Prince Setehrael wrote:

How does the Shadow Reservoir work for the Shadowcaster?

Just a normal focus pool that you can refocus by siphoning energy from the shadow plane.

Edit: I misunderstood. The Shadow reservoir gives you a set of spontaneous slots. 1 for each spell level you know up to 2 levels below your max.