Mark Seifter wrote:
Everything looks great, so far, Mark.
Personally, id prefer only three classes with lots of archetypes.
I'm going to be GMing a gritty steam/diesel-punk game set in a world where magic and technology fundamentally conflict, (re: Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura), using Pathfinder. To keep the game nestled in heroic fantasy I plan to run it as an E6 campaign. My players are ok with their core statistics, (Base attack bonus, saves, skills, etc), being capped at 6th level, however I worry that they'll run into character fatigue if they aren't able to really improve and gain more class features. What does the EnWorld brain trust think about the following variations of E6:
Another adjustment I am considering is that after 6th level the BaB and Skill Ranks requirements for feats will be waived - allowing PCs to attain feats they would otherwise never have access to so long as they've got the necessary feat prerequisites.
(P.S.: Just for fun and "fyi" the game will also utilize armor-as-DR and wound/vitality variants)
New Details from Glass Cannon Podcast Pathfinder Playtest Impressions - Ability damage is gone, Magic Missile mechanics, crit / fumble discussion
And will fumbles apply to skill checks, saving throws? Again this is likely to hurt martials more then casters as martials make more attack roles and combat related skill checks. Unless the rules include fumbles for concentration checks.
Making the heroes more fallible, less godlike is always going to be a plus for me. There are a lot more interesting stories to tell with gritty characters who can make mistakes.
Well, the game could still theoretically limit the difference between the highest bonus in the party and the lowest bonus in the party at any given level WITHOUT minimizing the difference between a higher level party and a lower level one.
I don't care how different party members are - in fact I want them to be different... I just want to be able to easily challenge my players with a diverse array of creatures, situations, and levels.
ULTIMATELY I'm hyped as hell for Pathfinder 2nd Edition and I hope that the rules are flexible and modular enough to allow as many different play styles as possible - I just hope that mine is included under that umbrella.
That Mark the developer guy should comment on this thread to let weigh in on the conversation!
Exactly - I don't even need to see truly "bounded" accuracy - finding cool treasures and specializing IS the fun of the game... but I also prefer to keep my PCs mortal.
Well hopefully theres plenty of GM support for customizing the game because "myth and supers" are super boring.
Lady Firebird wrote:
How many demi-god level powers can be running around in a world that is presumably ruled by mundane monarchs, emperors, and municipal governments? It's incongruous and immersion breaking for the characters to be THIS powerful and still be set inside a "classic" fantasy environment.
I agree with this completely - I like the idea of player characters being mortals who, even when very powerful, can't stand down an entire army of determined kobolds but the way that 5e handles skills feels very passive and unsatisfying. For verisimilitude/RP reasons it also makes sense why a pudgy old man is king and not the PCs. Because he has an army, and they don't.
the nerve-eater of Zur-en-Aarh wrote:
So, if I want to create an encounter where my group of 5 level 5 characters need to fight a small raiding party of elite orc raiders... how do I create the encounter so that it's balanced and each of the orcs constitutes a threat without making them wildly below or wildly above the parties capabilities?
My favorite part of 3.x/Pathfinder is combat. My group really enjoys tactical, interesting, dynamic combat as much as they enjoy exploring and social interaction. It's for this reason that I hope at least some degree of bounded accuracy makes it's way into PF 2nd Ed for the following reasons:
I've played 3.5 for more than a decade now and one of the most annoying problems in encounter creation is creating encounters that are not completely lopsided one way or the other. Too often it seems that PCs completely blow out, or are themselves blown out, by a single monster. Solo creature encounters have always been very difficult to create as well as encounters that feature larger numbers of monsters. One way to alleviate this problem is for lower level threats to still actually be threats. Bounded accuracy accomplishes this beautifully and it's probably the single best thing about 5e Dungeons and Dragons. While 5e is painfully bland and not very crunchy, this is at least one area where I hope the Pathfinder devs are paying attention.
I'm SO hyped for Pathfinder 2nd Edition - I just hope they've taken a hard look at the way combat shakes out so that it's easier to create engaging, challenging, and most importantly fun encounters for our players.
Gallant Armor wrote:
PCs sell items for half their value. So if you craft it for .5(x) and then sell it for .5(x) where x = the market price of the item then your profit margin is 0. You break even.
Why would you want a system that promotes resting more? Players resting too quickly is already one of the bigger complaints people have, since it takes away the most common balancing force against casters (limited spell slots.)
I tend to run a lot of dungeon crawls and time sensitive adventures - i give my players reasons they DON'T want to rest.
It does. So far the BEST system I've come across for bland/unflavored classes that fit well into a steampunk game has been d20 Modern. However the pathfinder version of that is hilariously inferior/messier than the original.
GM Rednal wrote:
For me this won't work - it's just way too convoluted and doesn't rely enough on existing core pathfinder work - I'm trying to actually invent as little new mechanics as possible.
I'm going to be running a gritty steampunk campaign. Many of the pathfinder classes work perfectly with little to no mechanical or flavor tinkering. Fighter, Gunslinger, Unchained Rogue, and Barbarian, (or rather "noble savage"), require no mechanical or flavor reworking. Ranger using the skirmisher archetype functions perfectly as an explorer, gentleman or otherwise. Unchained Monks, with a few mechanical and flavor tweaks, become perfect strongman pugilists.
Where I stumble is in finding a class to occupy the slot of technologist, scientist, and physician. I have surveyed the entire range of d20 literature in search of workable steampunk classes. Seriously - I've bought or read it all. So I would like the boards to help me brainstorm simple, streamlined, and evocative classes to finish off my roster.
A few things to make clear: I do not want to reflavor vancian magic as steampunk gadgetry. I do not want to use a system outside d20, and even more specifically, Pathfinder. The reason for these two stipulations are twofold. Primarily, I've found all attempts to refluff vancian casting as gadgetry to just fall short and not really embody the idea of creating an enduring invention that, short of breaking, lasts forever. On the second system point, Pathfinder/d20 is the system I am most comfortable with and after 10+ years of role playing has provided the most balanced and satisfying combat.
As far as areas to begin, I AM happy to reskin item creation feats into "invention" feats - I think there is a lot of fertile ground there. However, the ability to craft steampunk (read: magic) items is not enough to build a class around. Does anyone have any suggestions?
I'm a veteran of 3.5, (which is virtually identical to Pathfinder, don't care what any of you say), and I'm about to run a steampunk campaign using d20 Modern classes and Pathfinder rules.
I actually prefer 5e because the combats are so much more balanced but it isn't a system that supports the crunchy, gritty kind of game I want to run. From my extensive time as a DM running 3.x games I remember that fights tend to be *extremely* one sided one-way-or-the-other, especially at higher levels, and I really want to avoid that. What have you other DMs done to ensure that combat is not a boring slog or so one sided as to be anti-climactic.
I've been playing around with the idea of using armor as DR, (light 3/-, medium 5/-, and heavy 7/-), so that low level enemies can still ping characters who are meaningfully higher than their CR.
What do you all think of this and what solutions have you implemented in your own games?
(Context: I remember playing in the Age of Worms with two other guys and literately wading through a small army of lizardfolk as a barbarian and was essentially untouchable... I want to avoid that kind of scenario. 20+ of any monster, no matter how lowly, really ought to be able to overcome 4 PCs).
Thanks in advance.