Know Direction Preview of Tengu and Oracle


Pathfinder Second Edition General Discussion

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PREVIEW HERE

Basically have all the pages of the ancestry and class there.


Thanks for sharing!

Unfortunately - just like in the playtest - the oracle still looks like most of the curses are too debilitating to be worth the minor benefits of their mystery.

It's hard to tell without seeing what exactly the revelation spells do and how they might have changed, but judging by class abilities and feats, I'd still much sooner play a divine sorcerer.

Speaking form a purely mechanical point of view, of course.


Well, if I've properly read, you can cumulate focus spells and revelation spells and refocus to regain the ability to cast both of them. So, I think the Oracle is quite interesting for a sustained spellcaster.
I'm just annoyed to see they have so few feats. There's clearly a need for feats for a few classes in the game. I hope it will change in the future (it should).


SuperBidi wrote:
Well, if I've properly read, you can cumulate focus spells and revelation spells and refocus to regain the ability to cast both of them.

I don't understand what you mean.


Tempest is hilariously better than the rest. It's major curse doesn't even have a drawback. And it gets electric arc.

Cosmos will probably make a better battle Oracle than battle, if they never go into their curse.

I think most oracles will want to take an archetype that gives a focus spell they like, so they can cast that without ever entering minor curse.


citricking wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Well, if I've properly read, you can cumulate focus spells and revelation spells and refocus to regain the ability to cast both of them.
I don't understand what you mean.

In the playtest, Revelation spells were focus spells and Oracle were not getting focus pools.

Now, they seem separated. When you refocus, you regain both Focus Points and the ability to cast Revelation spells.
For example, at level 5 with the proper Dedication feats, you can cast one focus spell and 2 revelation spells per refocus. It makes the Oracle a sustained caster (well, it depends on the Revelation spells, as they don't appear in the excerpt).


SuperBidi wrote:
citricking wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
Well, if I've properly read, you can cumulate focus spells and revelation spells and refocus to regain the ability to cast both of them.
I don't understand what you mean.

In the playtest, Revelation spells were focus spells and Oracle were not getting focus pools.

Now, they seem separated. When you refocus, you regain both Focus Points and the ability to cast Revelation spells.
For example, at level 5 with the proper Dedication feats, you can cast one focus spell and 2 revelation spells per refocus. It makes the Oracle a sustained caster (well, it depends on the Revelation spells, as they don't appear in the excerpt).

Revelaton spells still cost focus points and you still can't have more than 3 in your pool.

I can't even find anything saying you can regain more than one focus point, not even with a feat.

Either I'm missing someghing somewhere or Oracles are among the WORST focus spell users.

EDIT: Ah, they can regain more than one focus point. It's hidden in their curse upgrades at levels 11 and 17. Well, that's someting at least, I guess.


SuperBidi wrote:

In the playtest, Revelation spells were focus spells and Oracle were not getting focus pools.

Now, they seem separated. When you refocus, you regain both Focus Points and the ability to cast Revelation spells.
For example, at level 5 with the proper Dedication feats, you can cast one focus spell and 2 revelation spells per refocus. It makes the Oracle a sustained caster (well, it depends on the Revelation spells, as they don't appear in the excerpt).

I would actually assume that all revelation spells are focus spells but Oracles who cast revelation spells specifically also incur their curse in addition to spending a Focus Point.

I'm actually rather glad the implication that Oracles still use Focus Points and don't completely replace them with curse mechanics because as interesting as that idea sounded, it felt a little awkward imagining how it might interact with all other class focus abilities


citricking wrote:

Tempest is hilariously better than the rest. It's major curse doesn't even have a drawback. And it gets electric arc.

Cosmos will probably make a better battle Oracle than battle, if they never go into their curse.

I think most oracles will want to take an archetype that gives a focus spell they like, so they can cast that without ever entering minor curse.

Tempest is to the other Mysteries what electric arc is to the other cantrips. The mysteries have lots of cool parts, but don't seem very well balanced against each other. Cosmos and Tempest being standout.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That tengu art in ancestry entry looks more like kenku art to me .-.


Blave wrote:
Revelaton spells still cost focus points and you still can't have more than 3 in your pool.

I have read quickly, but I'm not sure Revelations are Focus Spells. Where is it stated?

Considering that you can increase your curse more than you'll ever have focus points, it looks to me that Revelation spells are no more Focus spells.


SuperBidi wrote:
Blave wrote:
Revelaton spells still cost focus points and you still can't have more than 3 in your pool.

I have read quickly, but I'm not sure Revelations are Focus Spells. Where is it stated?

Considering that you can increase your curse more than you'll ever have focus points, it looks to me that Revelation spells are no more Focus spells.

pg 69 in the preview. They are focus spells and cost 1 focus to cast.

You can hit 3 focus as early as 2nd level, and that would let you burn out in the first encounter* only. Which isn't nearly as powerful as gaining focus for another class is.

Otherwise you are capped at 2 in the first encounter*, 1 any other encounter, 2 in the last encounter you use revelation spells for the day. (Until your curse threshold increases).

*that you use a revelation spell today.


I don't think we can really comment on the balance of the mysteries until we see the revelation spells.

The Exchange

The Life Oracle’s curse still feels extremely painful. Looks like you’ll be hemorrhaging all day. It’s flavorful but still feels harsh.


Thanks, I hadn't find it.
So, it all turns out to Revelation spells being good enough to justify the extreme cost...


Salamileg wrote:
I don't think we can really comment on the balance of the mysteries until we see the revelation spells.

From what I've seen from the discord spoilers, they seem to be about as good as those in the playtest, with the notable exception for the life mystery which got a (desperately needed) upgrade to Life Link (which is now the initial Revelation) and Delay Affliction.

Ironically, Tempest and Cosmos look like they have the most universally useful Revelations. Bones looks good, too.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, I'm less than pleased with the degree to which Curses are just a straight-up bad thing almost all the time. That makes thematic sense, sure, but I'm not seeing any exceptional advantages that make up for the crippling disadvantages many Curses provide. Maybe the Focus spells are just bonkers powerful and make it worth it (and those associated with less severe Curses are less so), but I'd need to see them to make that judgment.

On the bright side, Tengu look cool.


wow they lost thier level 12 blasting feat massive nerf. the tempest sort of has a heavily nerfed version of it built in though


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Obviously can't say for sure without looking at the revelation spells but I'm not sure I like the design choice to make them cost focus points.

Playtest Revelation mechanics weren't great, but at least Oracles got some extra casting baked into the system to kind of give them a niche. The only real upside to the new one is that you can pretend it doesn't exist by grabbing focus spells from out of class.

Revelation Spells are going to have to be really overbearing to make them feel worthwhile, especially for some of the classes with harsher curses. Speaking of...

Curse balance feels all over the place too. Tempest feels manageable and flavorful and there are a few more I think are okay, but on the flip side...

Ancestors' mechanic looks downright awful to play with. If I want to take advantage of the Caster Ancestor mechanics I want to focus on damage and healing spells to put in my Repertoire, but I have a 50/50 chance each combat to give all my spells a miss chance.

Tying randomized effects like that to a class that has to pick specific spells feels especially rough. I also particularly dislike that the Martial ancestor gives out status bonuses, because it means if your party has something like a Bard or Divine buffer (hmm...) in it your Curse benefit basically just evaporates.

Bones and Lore also stand out for me as underwhelming, Bones because its benefits just seem really boring (although the downsides are manageable) and Lore because while I like its upside, the downsides feel disproportionately intense compared to some RK checks that are assurance locked.


Squiggit wrote:
Revelation Spells are going to have to be really overbearing to make them feel worthwhile

Don't get your hopes up. They seem about as good and/or bad as every other focus powers. I'd say they are slightly better than domain powers on average, but that's mostly due to domain powers being very hit or miss.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Yeah, I'm less than pleased with the degree to which Curses are just a straight-up bad thing almost all the time. That makes thematic sense, sure, but I'm not seeing any exceptional advantages that make up for the crippling disadvantages many Curses provide. Maybe the Focus spells are just bonkers powerful and make it worth it (and those associated with less severe Curses are less so), but I'd need to see them to make that judgment.

Agreed. I kind of get the feeling that Oracles started back in the day with the request from players to have a spontaneous divine caster (like the D&D Favored Soul), but The Powers That Be seem really adamant that the only proper way to divine spellcasting is through a deity (which is also why PF1 requires clerics to have a patron deity, but 3e didn't). To me, the oracular curses always felt like the game designers saying "Oh, you want divine magic without going about it properly? Here, deal with this curse as well, then!"

I mean, spontaneous casters with the divine list are already at a pretty big disadvantage in that a large portion of the list consists of answers, not questions (and answers are only useful if someone else has asked the right question). Many others require that you worship a deity in order to cast them (starting with divine lance and spiritual weapon and progressing to weapon of judgment and avatar), which kind of negates the point of being an oracle. And I really don't see anything here that would justify dropping one spell per level and taking on a primarily-negative curse in order to play an oracle instead of a divine sorcerer. To some extent, that would depend on what the Revelation spells look like, but they'd have to be pretty dang awesome to make up for that.

Liberty's Edge

I think Curses are thematically fine, and were actually pretty fun in PF1 because there was a good balance between advantages and disadvantages, with the former gradually overcoming the latter as you leveled. That plus Revelations being awesome made Oracle and fun and interesting Class in PF1.

In PF2, from what I can tell, being an Oracle is worse than being a Cleric in just about every way before adding in the Curse (sure, you get Legendary in Will at 17th, but as a Cha rather than Wis caster, that's less of an advantage than it looks like in isolation).

There are a couple of options that make that less true (the Physical Resistance from Cosmos is sweet, for example), but that's almost worse as it means that the Mysteries are not at all balanced against each other, and the Curse still feels punitive rather than fun.

And...I said all of the stuff in the first two paragraphs in the playtest, as did others. So I'm disappointed these issues were apparently not fixed.


I would say that most focus spells of the Oracles are kinda similar to the Elemental Sorcerer ones, most of them causes damage and scales around the same.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Soooo...

Swash: S-/A+
Investy, Weech: A
Oracle: B-/C+

?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I am not at all pleased with any of the curses. I personally hated the curses in PF1, but they're even worse here.

At least you can ignore your Revelations and ignore the curses.

Particularly the "Curse of Outpouring Life" makes extremely little sense to me. You're so super full of positive energy that it pours out of you, so you can't be healed by positive energy. You'd expect there to be some sort of regeneration or fast healing going on, but no...

And there's random constraints like you can get a d12 heal, but only if you're not catching any undead in the blast, then it's mysteriously d8s again. You can heal someone a little after casting a spell, but not you because reasons.

And all this "you can't heal as well because reasons" happens after using "Life Link" so the party's healer just got extra squishy.

It just really doesn't jive with what I expect positive energy to do in-setting.


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Honestly? I really like how they went about all of the Mysteries. There's a lot of risk-for-reward builds I can go for in different ways.

Ancestor sounds off, but if I build my character to be a gish, then there's some interesting things I can go about it. Striking on 1, Recall Knowledge, Seek, Tumble Through or an Athletics manuever on 2, casting a needed spell on 3, and whatever I feel is best for 4. And if I don't have a good option of a roll, I can do something like Stride in the meantime or risk the miss chance.

Battle is another decent gish set. High status bonus to damage with a penalty I can mitigate by Striking (something I'd want to do 99% of the time). And getting stupified at Major is great. Just run buffs or heals and you're doing well.

Bones is interesting with an evil-aligned party. If you run with someone with Harm or an evil champion with Touch of Corruption, you'll get a fair bit of healing while damaging humanoids. And seems like if you're in a game with a lot of undead focus, this is pretty strong. Resistance to disease and death effects, and the focus spell "Armor of Bones" gives you even more resistance on top of that.

Cosmos is all about general survivability, travel and being a long-range caster. If you're in melee range of an enemy, that can suck. But getting lighter for Powerful Leap/Quick Jump, and then getting to walk on water and Cloud Jump means you can often get to areas most others, including enemies can't get to, and then safely cast down on them. And if they get in close, you got that 1/2 Level + 2 resistance to all physical damage to keep you alive.

Flames is all about being a mid-range caster. The aura in the Major curse is WAAAAAAAY better than the playtest. So having on a harsh aura, being concealed to your enemies and being able to still cast your fire spells with your best effective range (~30 feet) can make you a high damaging class. And if you run into someone with fire resistance, you can choose not to use your revelation spells on that enemy.

Life got a buff on the minor curse (people can Medicine check you normally). So only having your healing being lowered by half your level helps with your survivability. Not being able to be healed by Heal sucks, but that's the point. And if you have your party members support your health with potions or elixirs, you'll be just fine. In exchange, you're doing INSANE amounts of healing.

Lore took a bit to think about for Major. Minor is bad, but if you took Incredible Initiate it's not as bad (and taking general feat choices isn't "circumventing the curse" in the traditional sense). Free Recall Knowledge with Assurance won't help with Level +2 bosses or higher, but when dealing with a lot of enemies, a free one is pretty dang useful as long as you keep your Recall Knowledge proficiencies up. For Major, you basically become immune to Suggestion-based spells, which can be devastating. Depends on the campaign, but it's definitely a more thematic choice.

And finally, yes, Tempest can be strong. But you better hope the Tempest Oracle is nowhere near their allies, as the difficult terrain up to a 15 foot aura can be downright awful to deal with. Any electricity monster will cook a Tempest Oracle on a stick. And anyone touching them at Major curse includes allies, and that includes touch healing spells or Medicine checks. That can be real bad if you're knocked out and your party is all out of Heal spells.

Basically, I can see a use case for all of them. A couple, like Lore or Bones, depends more on the theme of the campaign or the composition of the party, but that's true with a lot of subclasses in PF2E. That doesn't mean the whole class is awful. It means that you need to think about and talk about your plans about your character with your group, so everyone is on the same page. Any of the really bad aspects can be mitigated easily with good teamwork and a GM giving you the basic knowledge you need to know to make your character appropriate for the game.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Frankly, I'm not seeing curses that much of a problem if you only get them while firing revelation spells off.

I can understand that coming from PF1 and expecting curses to be negligible while revelations being super saucy I would be disappointed, but again, it's not how you should be looking at PF2.

Scarab Sages

Deadmanwalking wrote:

I think Curses are thematically fine, and were actually pretty fun in PF1 because there was a good balance between advantages and disadvantages, with the former gradually overcoming the latter as you leveled. That plus Revelations being awesome made Oracle and fun and interesting Class in PF1.

In PF2, from what I can tell, being an Oracle is worse than being a Cleric in just about every way before adding in the Curse (sure, you get Legendary in Will at 17th, but as a Cha rather than Wis caster, that's less of an advantage than it looks like in isolation).

There are a couple of options that make that less true (the Physical Resistance from Cosmos is sweet, for example), but that's almost worse as it means that the Mysteries are not at all balanced against each other, and the Curse still feels punitive rather than fun.

And...I said all of the stuff in the first two paragraphs in the playtest, as did others. So I'm disappointed these issues were apparently not fixed.

You know, it just looks like they're moving too fast. With similar issues in Core, I don't think they can handle this pace. Stuff just comes out bad.


Gorbacz wrote:
Frankly, I'm not seeing curses that much of a problem if you only get them while firing revelation spells off.

But if you don't use your revelation spells, why play an oracle at all? Cleric, divine sorcerer and potentially divine witch all do at least the the same spellcasting AND can use their class abilities without suffering drawbacks.


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Mystery Benefits, class feats ... revelation spells ain't the only thing that makes oracle distinct.

I fully agree that with divine sorcs in core, the conceptual space for Oracle was never as big as it was in PF1 - after all, Oracle was the spont divine casty, Favoured Soul but better. But one secondary class ability doesn't define the whole class.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Damn, I mistakenly posted that under an alias :D

Liberty's Edge

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Blave wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Frankly, I'm not seeing curses that much of a problem if you only get them while firing revelation spells off.
But if you don't use your revelation spells, why play an oracle at all? Cleric, divine sorcerer and potentially divine witch all do at least the the same spellcasting AND can use their class abilities without suffering drawbacks.

This is pretty much the issue, yeah. They have some stuff other than Revelation spells, yeah, but it doesn't look nearly as good as the 'other stuff' other Divine casters tend to get.

Angel Hunter D wrote:
You know, it just looks like they're moving too fast. With similar issues in Core, I don't think they can handle this pace. Stuff just comes out bad.

I don't think I'd go quite this far. Swashbuckler was great right out the gate and both Investigator and Witch seem to have come out of the playtest as very good Classes with a lot of cool stuff.

Only Oracle seems to have real issues, and even there we don't know how bad they are yet. It's plausible that the Revelation spells are good enough to make up for the huge down sides on at least some builds.

It looks better than Alchemist, anyway, so it's an improvement at the very least.


WatersLethe wrote:

I am not at all pleased with any of the curses. I personally hated the curses in PF1, but they're even worse here.

At least you can ignore your Revelations and ignore the curses.

Particularly the "Curse of Outpouring Life" makes extremely little sense to me. You're so super full of positive energy that it pours out of you, so you can't be healed by positive energy. You'd expect there to be some sort of regeneration or fast healing going on, but no...

And there's random constraints like you can get a d12 heal, but only if you're not catching any undead in the blast, then it's mysteriously d8s again. You can heal someone a little after casting a spell, but not you because reasons.

And all this "you can't heal as well because reasons" happens after using "Life Link" so the party's healer just got extra squishy.

It just really doesn't jive with what I expect positive energy to do in-setting.

I concur, the curse of outpouring life never made any sense for a game like pathfinder 2E. Its like it was designed for a character in a novel rather than a character someone would want to play in an actual pathfinder game, I can't think of a single reason to just not be a cleric and take healing feat and do D10 heals. or a divine sorcerer with the cleric archetype and take healing hands .

Life oracle plays more like an NPC class than a PC one.


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Blave wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
Frankly, I'm not seeing curses that much of a problem if you only get them while firing revelation spells off.
But if you don't use your revelation spells, why play an oracle at all? Cleric, divine sorcerer and potentially divine witch all do at least the the same spellcasting AND can use their class abilities without suffering drawbacks.

It's not that you don't use those revelation spells, it's that you have control over when you use them. For example, Lore gets useful skill revelation spells that work well with it, and if you're interested in using one of the combat ones, you can easily avoid taking that initiative penalty on the first fight.

Incidentally, I really like Lore mystery + Loremaster archetype. Making free Assurance checks on a universal lore is nice. And it's not just in combat- the flavor of learning something about anything as a free action every round is really cool.

Grand Lodge

Oracle doesn't have any mystery specific feats out of the gate?

Darn, think those feats would have rounded out the mysteries a lot better to make each oracle feel different besides the level 1 mystery choice.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So they now get light armor out the box, which is a nice buff from the playtest and gives them an advantage over the other "full" casters. The mysteries seem to add more durability as well: Flames got the evasion clause added to their master reflexes.

Batte Oracle retains legendary casting and gets better armor than a war priest, but good lord that penalty is awful. I'd be scared to play anything other than an archer so I could strike more often.

I don't think I grokk the significance of them gaining a focus pool, other than allowing them to use multiclass focus spells easier. It seems like they effectively have the same effect as the playtest with advancing the curse, but now they have a secondary restriction and resource pool to track. Maybe they decided a high level oracle casting up to five revelation spells in one combat was too strong? But having slightly more frequent focus spell casting was one of its biggest advantages over divine sorcerers and such.

ikarinokami wrote:
wow they lost thier level 12 blasting feat massive nerf. the tempest sort of has a heavily nerfed version of it built in though

Yeah that stings. It was a really strong feat. Also, the replacement is... weird. I've never actually seen a creature with resistance to alignment damage, and positive/negative resistance is rare. Most things are just immune.

Also, does anyone expect Oracles to be pumping out alignment damage? They don't have a deity and their flavor lends it itself to Neutral. A good fix would let oracles get deal all kinds of alignment damage rather than just their diety's. That would make a lot of sense with them being conduits for multiple divine sources, and it would fix an inherent problem they have with many of the divine spells. I might house rule that into play.


Even with concerns about how strong revelation spells are compared to the curse, I'm still really excited to play an Oracle, moreso than the other divine casters.


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The Divine Access feat at 4 is also big contributor to Mystery strengths and weaknesses that no-one has really brought up yet. Each mystery gets two domains, and the list of deities attached to those domains varies greatly in the quality of spells available. As it turns out, the most demanding curses also come with the best options for non-divine-list spells.

Ancestors: Turns out, Death domain often comes alongside a lot of great spell choices for both casters and dedicated gishes.

Battle: Just pick Ragathiel and go nuts. Or any of the other nice gish-enabler deities.

Bones: Again, Death domain comes alongside some great spell choices. Bones is pretty narrow on the features, but the spells can compensate happily.

Cosmos: Cosmos has arguably the best curse for a caster (easy maneuverability and boosted durability with no significant downsides), but neither Darkness nor Moon comes on a deity with truly standout spells.

Flames: Fire domain shows up on a lot of different deities. Sure, you can just nab Sarenrae to fireball all day long, but there's a lot of choices beyond that.

Life Domain: The curse looks weak on the surface, but Death and Healing domains covers an absurd range of deities with some great spells. You can cover pretty much everything you could ever want with a few selections of Divine Access. In particular, you also get Korada for slow, and Isis as a 9-spell option.

Lore: Again, what looks like a crippling curse is offset by great spell access. Knowledge domain grants access to four 9-spell deities- perfect for filling out that expanded repertoire. Truth gets you Sarenrae. Great options.

Tempest: Electric arc is gas. Your list is deities is decent enough if a little shallow. Most importantly, you can easily get hydraulic push or hydraulic torrent to turn on your abilities. Also can get Matravash for slow.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
TheGentlemanDM wrote:

The Divine Access feat at 4 is also big contributor to Mystery strengths and weaknesses that no-one has really brought up yet. Each mystery gets two domains, and the list of deities attached to those domains varies greatly in the quality of spells available. As it turns out, the most demanding curses also come with the best options for non-divine-list spells.

Ancestors: Turns out, Death domain often comes alongside a lot of great spell choices for both casters and dedicated gishes.

Battle: Just pick Ragathiel and go nuts. Or any of the other nice gish-enabler deities.

Bones: Again, Death domain comes alongside some great spell choices. Bones is pretty narrow on the features, but the spells can compensate happily.

Cosmos: Cosmos has arguably the best curse for a caster (easy maneuverability and boosted durability with no significant downsides), but neither Darkness nor Moon comes on a deity with truly standout spells.

Flames: Fire domain shows up on a lot of different deities. Sure, you can just nab Sarenrae to fireball all day long, but there's a lot of choices beyond that.

Life Domain: The curse looks weak on the surface, but Death and Healing domains covers an absurd range of deities with some great spells. You can cover pretty much everything you could ever want with a few selections of Divine Access. In particular, you also get Korada for slow, and Isis as a 9-spell option.

Lore: Again, what looks like a crippling curse is offset by great spell access. Knowledge domain grants access to four 9-spell deities- perfect for filling out that expanded repertoire. Truth gets you Sarenrae. Great options.

Tempest: Electric arc is gas. Your list is deities is decent enough if a little shallow. Most importantly, you can easily get hydraulic push or hydraulic torrent to turn on your abilities. Also can get Matravash for slow.

I'm also realizing how nice being able to take the feat more than once. Yeah, fire can go Sarenrae and get some blasting, but they can also pick up Asmodeus for some mental spells.


So now revelations use Focus Points AND increase your curse? It seems like oracles are worse at Focus casting than any other Focus caster that takes the refocus feats. I would’ve preferred no Focus Pool if there’s already going to be a negative effect for casting them.


Don't Divine Sorcerer have their own Divine Access in Blessed Blood? And as a lvl 1 feat (don't have the special to use more than once though.).

They do need a deity for that, but with how divine list work that is actually an upside. Not for every character concept though.


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BooleanBear wrote:
So now revelations use Focus Points AND increase your curse? It seems like oracles are worse at Focus casting than any other Focus caster that takes the refocus feats.

Getting their refocus improved for free at 11th and 17th is a big deal. In any other class, you have to spend your 12th and 18th level feats on that if you're going for a focus build. That opens up a lot of space for Oracles.

Also, since multiclassed focus spells they take aren't cursebound, they can go nuts with them for free.

Kyrone wrote:

Don't Divine Sorcerer have their own Divine Access in Blessed Blood? And as a lvl 1 feat (don't have the special to use more than once though.).

They do need a deity for that, but with how divine list work that is actually an upside. Not for every character concept though.

The trick that Oracles have is that they don't need to worship the deity to tap their power. A Lore Oracle can gain spells from Nyarlathotep with no obligation, for example. They can also tap multiple deities for spells. A Tempest Oracle could grab hydraulic push and aqueous orb from Lysianassa, Hydraulic Torrent and Chain Lightning from Hei Feng, and slow from Matravash all on the same character. It's close to the Halcyon Speaker in terms of flexibility in selection.

And you could still worship Gozreh after all that if you wanted.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Captain Morgan wrote:
I don't think I grokk the significance of them gaining a focus pool, other than allowing them to use multiclass focus spells easier

Focus pool has two major effects for the new Oracle:

-An Oracle can grab focus spells that aren't revelations and cast them without interfering with their Curse at all. Playtest Oracle used Curse as its focus resource, which meant even if you MC'd Druid and nabbed an order spell it'd still advance your curse.

-Oracles now interact with focus points just like everyone else. Anything that modifies focus points now works for Oracles, but since they're tracking both curse and focus points, they're also limited by both. They can't overcast as hard as playtest oracles, and they benefit less from things that regenerate focus points (like familiars) than traditional spellcasters (because they risk overwhelming), although playtest oracles couldn't use those at all.

Ultimately, it's a bit of a buff to multiclassing/archetype oracles and mostly a wash for single classed oracles (maybe slightly worse at higher levels).


Kyrone wrote:

Don't Divine Sorcerer have their own Divine Access in Blessed Blood? And as a lvl 1 feat (don't have the special to use more than once though.).

They do need a deity for that, but with how divine list work that is actually an upside. Not for every character concept though.

Yes, it is a pretty good feat depending on your choice of deity.


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I have to say, that squawk feat for Tengu is right up my ally.


Divine Access is a very powerful feat and possible the best one of the oracle. But while more versatile then the options of the other classes, it's hardly that unique.

Clerics get 3 or - depending on their deity up to - 9 spells known. Sorcerers get 10 spells from their bloodline in addition to Blessed Blood and Crossblooded Evolution.

Greater Crossblooded Evolution is even more versatile then Divine Access but it comes so much later that I don't think it's actually better (when you compare cost and effect).


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Ancestors is a great one if you're willing to embrace a switch hitter style where you bounce between spells, strikes, and skill usage in combat. If you don't care what you're doing, your curse is all bonus and no negative. (Out of combat being locked out of skills can be a problem when cat gets your tongue while trying to tell a lie.)

For strikes, you can take ancestry weapons to get a decent martial or advanced option. For skills, you can do either debuffs (demoralize/Bon Mot/Scare to Death - all three late game!) or combat maneuvers if you build with enough strength. Get the strength req demoralize skill feat for an extra +2 circumstance and be the best demoralizer in the game.

Losing a strike or a one action spell (shield, guidance, or heal, for example) when you don't have the right ancestor in charge isn't the worst thing, either, if you can't fill all three actions with movement plus what your ancestor favors.


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Personally, I don't get the negativity around the oracle. Playing to the advantages of your curse seems to get a lot of great bonuses and the disadvantages of the curse can either be mitigated with planning or effect things that you wouldn't want to do anyways with your character build. I'm pretty excited to play an oracle when I can.


Xenocrat wrote:

For strikes, you can take ancestry weapons to get a decent martial or advanced option.

This feels intended, since the ancestry weapon feats are a very good choice for ancestry feats that don't rely on biology.


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If you want to see some leaked details on Oracle focus spells, see here.

Ancestry has a one action mental damage one that also can inflict frightened 1-2, which seems pretty decent; a reaction to reroll a will save and that provides some provision for switching your ancestor; and what is basically a ghost form with heavy resistance and flight, I assume you can scout with it effectively or phase through doors since you can't attack or manipulate anything.

Battle has a reaction to boost the party initiative and grant temp HP, also pushing you into your curse benefits at the beginning of combat. Level 3 mitigates your save penalties and helps against incapacitate effects. Level 6 lets you steal a fighter feat.

Bones gives another one action attack, but with negative damage, potentially drained(!), and temp HP. Focus 3 is resistance to most common physical/energy damage except bludgeoning and acid. Focus 6 is a Dominate Undead thing.

Cosmos is a (2 action) fire cone that can dazzle, focus 3 is a sustained cold damage that fatigues, focus 6 is a weird cosmic bridge that blocks attack and you and your allies can use to climb over the battlefied or across obstacles. (Cosmos sounds like it rocks.)

Flames is an aura that adds persistent fire damage to those who take fire damage, focus 3 is some micro fireballs, focus 6 is rapid fire boosted Produce Flame mode.

I don't care about Life.

Lore is 2 action more damaging mental attack that also can force the target to make a recall knowledge check for you using their own skill bonus ("what are you and what can you do?"). Focus 3 steals a Lore skill and gives you proficiency equal to your spellcasting, very nice for out of combat research problem solving. Focus 6 either removes a resistance or inflicts a point of weakness, and can also inflict frightened 1/3.

Tempest gets the most damaging one action attack, plus a movement debuff. Focus 3 is bludgenoning/sonic AOE, Focus 6 is an air/water/mist form that sounds like the Ancestor, you're a durable mobile scout.

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