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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber. Organized Play Member. 197 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character.


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If you are looking for an RPG system that includes immortality without house rules, there are several that have it as a base expectation of the game. Eclipse Phase is a great transhumanist system, easy to get into, with enough choices and options to run decades of campaigns. (And the designers are a cool group of people.)

I'm told though I haven't verified, that many of the White Wolf line include immortality options.

There are options for everyone. It appears that the PF design team did not feel that immortality as you seek it, was an option that the main player base was looking for in Pathfinder and so they've steered away from it. The options are still there, they just have strings attached to them to keep it balanced within their Golarion setting. In a neutral setting or 3PP world, other options may get added in to meet the PF1 availability but only if the other publishers see an economic niche that needs to be filled.


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Filthy Lucre wrote:
But it doesn't entail the survival of the experience-ER. No one cares about object immortality, just subject immortality.

You continue to make bold statements "no one," "never", "always."

There are many people that faith in their legacy, their family, or some other purpose continuing on after their individual death is worth their own personal life, or that their life is complete and the struggle of survival is no longer necessary. The struggle for personal survival and continuity at great cost, especially damage to the community is the difference between a healthy psyche and a damaged one.

Would you personally make the choices that you are espousing as something that must be done to fight against the scourge of mortality?

Also, where in any of these books does it discuss what the common townsperson or even a parish cleric knows about the travel of the soul and their outcome after shaking off this mortal coil? I don't see anywhere in the River of Souls that says any of that is common knowledge or even known amongst mortals.


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Depending on the area that you are from, there can also be a variety of tribes creating differences within a small geographical footprint.

Near Sandpoint in Varisia, prior to the events of Rise of the Runelords, there were 6 tribes with some leadership and cultural differences based on where they lived (swamp vs forest vs island fort) all within a day's walk of each other.

If you don't find the perfect fit for your geographical area in one of the books, it seems reasonable based on precedent that there are other tribes nearby that might have the little change you want.


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Moppy wrote:
In which lore book is this explained?

Planar Adventures, the River of Souls section has a great explanation of cosmology and the soul in Golarion. It's PF1, but there are no mechanics purely the lore behind the cycle as it relates to Pharasma and the rest.


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My take on it is "That's odd" tells the players they need to spend time in the area and nudges them in a direction. Sometimes they will be in the middle of something else and have to remember to come back, other times they will be able to look into the matter immediately. If there are multiple things to find in an area, it gives them one of them.

There's also the fact that by choosing to be an investigator to be good at finding clues, they are making the choice to not be a different class or if they multiclassed into Investigator not having other dedications.

Some of the more advanced feats are also labeled as Uncommon, meaning that before "Who Dunnit" gets added to the game, the GM has to decide it's something they want.


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In the murder investigation scenario, there are the physical factors of where the murder happened, who did it, and how. There is also the motive behind it.

When the party comes into the study, they could find:
a- A painting is askew (there's a secret passage behind the portrait showing how the killer moves around the house unseen)
b- the ashes in the fireplace (Contains bits of burnt paperwork -part of the motive of killings)
c- a ribbon discarded under a chair (hinting that all of the guests were given presents)

Across the hall, the lounge is where the murder happened:
a - the door locks from the inside and the murder victim still has the key (suggests the murderer was already in the room)
b - body shows signs of blunt trauma to the head (rule out edged weapons)
c - a candle has fallen from the mantle (fireplace here is also a secret passage - candle fell when moving)

So now, the party has two secret passages to explore; a lead on motive something that was in those papers, but they don't know what yet; knowledge that the killer either was stealthy enough to open a secret passage without causing alarm or was able to hide/be invisible in the lounge; gifts were given to all the party guests - everyone had a weapon; killer used a blunt weapon - either was given it or able to get it away from the original owner unnoticed.

Plenty of clues in 2 rooms to lead toward the investigation without giving away that it was Colonel Mustard with the Lead Pipe and that he was being blackmailed for war profiteering.


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Are you familiar with the later books?

Spoiler:
During the Giant raid on Sandpoint, Scarnetti manor gets attacked and giant's loot a bunch of stuff, including a desk with enough evidence to lock away Scarnetti.


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It's possible that one of Titus' siblings had children before their death and the Armsman serves one of the missing cousins. Gives an outside viewpoint of the town and can open chances for intrigue within the family if you are interested in that as cousins disagree about the nature of business etc.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

[code]
Ancestors
|
______|______
Alamon Enid
| |
(Delarah) - Titus Adimar
|
__________________________
| | |
Elise Charn Lianel

[/code]
Enid is Alamon's sister. Alamon had multiple sons, now deceased. Titus is the sole survivor of his siblings.

Delarah married into the family and is the mother to Titus' children. As the order of the children is Elise, Charn, Lianel is the Sandpoint book, I assume that it the order of their birth.

Spoiler:
Titu's cousin Adimar is afflicted with lycanthropy were-rat


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I appreciate it. Thank you.


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GMing this campaign right now for different groups I'd say

Book 1

Spoiler:
Delete most of Part 2. Keep the Boar Hunt if you want the players to have a reason to remember Foxglove in Book2. Shalelu can provide depth now but it is mostly to introduce her so they know who she is later. Missing Bartender leads straight to the Glassworks. I'd do Korovus and Erylium in the catacombs, skip the rest.

Thistletop, play up the heavy casualties taken. Cut down to the throne room, and downstairs just be Nuallia and her people. Thin out the goblins substantially. Have Malfeshnekor plane shift when they open the door and release his prison.

Book 2

Spoiler:
Lumbermill to Sanatorium, if you used Shalelu for goblin intel, bring her back to report that farms are being attacked. If the PCs want to get involved, skip the ghoul scarecrows and go straight to the farm house.

Foxglove manor - some haunts are real, others are set dressing to tell the story. Skip the townhouse, bring all the papers to the manor.

Sawmill, reduce the number of cultists unless your party cleaves through them. Then the Clock Tower.

Book 3

Spoiler:
Thin out the Graul, play up the banjo music . I'd skip the traitor angle entirely. Take the Fort, skip Black Magga and go straight to the dam to prevent the flooding. Skip the fens and that who subplot. Thin out Hook Mountain, or possibly have the info come with Ft Rannick, suggesting the giants are on the march back to Jorgenfist.

Book 4

Spoiler:
Raid the town, keep the party moving, don't let them get tangled into killing a whole encounter. Just weaken enough that the overwhelming number of townsfolk can mop up. Maybe 2 giant encounters and the dragon. Encounters from Round 1, 8, & 12?

Jorgenfist - lead them to the back door so no one tries to fight an army. Skip all of A except the spiders blocking the door, thin out B level and go to C with the hounds and Mokmurian then the Library. This provides plenty of background info.

Book 5

Spoiler:
You could almost skip over the Scribbler if the library takes them to Runeforge. 3-4 wings is plenty. Dominant weapons will help, but they can face Karzoug without them.

Book 6

Spoiler:
Skip the Cabin in the woods, give some time to explore Xin Shalast, enter the Eye.


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From a story standpoint, separating the eidolon from the summoner feels a lot like the story from the His Dark Materials trilogy.


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Barding for dragons sounds like a cool idea, but I find most pictures of it don't quite work in my mind.


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Joan --

I updated it two orders ago and just updated it again. Please verify. Thank you.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I received an email this evening stating that the order needs a valid payment method. Please use the payment method on file which has been used for the last few months.

Can you please clarify why the default/only payment method is not being used?


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What about weapon attacks with area of effects? There were spells that let you throw a weapon and strike a line of targets. Various video games have "blade" attacks or the like. A 30' line or 15' cone where the magus makes a single attack against all targets in the area or maybe they get a basic save against the damage.


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I was thinking back to the Tome of Battle, some of the schools that the sword sages used would flow neatly into magus tricks. Running and leaving flames in your wake, coating your weapon in fire, summoning shadowy tentacles to entangle those beside you. Having things like that, even if they are archetypes that lean into the niche. This could also create the design space for an occult magus, an elemental/primal one, etc.

It doesn't look like we will get an arcana pool like the 1E magus had. If the lower level spell slots could instead be converted into tricks--when the magus out grows the 1st level slots, they instead get to trigger Fleet Step twice per day. A spell that targets the magus only, once it is chosen, it cannot be changed. The spells could also be linked to the magus' synthesis, to show whether they are the fast moving, stalwart and steady, or distant and aloof type.

This would provide magical tricks--incorporating sword and sorcery throughout, without increasing spellslots for balance against the rest of the class.


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In your top hat of course.


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I have it on good authority to "never trust an elf"


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I could also see variants that specialize in specific schools of magic or have access to different spell traditions.

WatersLethe wrote:
Low level utility spells that make you feel like a magical character outside of combat

What would that look like to you?

Lelomenia wrote:
One of the things i’ve always wanted was a ranged character that could teleport around the battlefield. With slide and shooting as separate syntheses, that’s seeming unlikely here tho.

That would be awesome. If the syntheses had different levels, like an entry level ability which improved over time--greater effects with further feat progression perhaps--and the ability to get the entry level ability of a second synthesis as a choice instead of a stronger version of the base synthesis, that would provide choice and greater diversity.


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A list of some other magus tricks that would be nice:

A "flurry" of weapon attacks with a spell cast on the magus. The spell should trigger at the end of the flurry and could be limited to buff spells or spells that don't directly effect other creatures.

Dimensional strikes - advanced Slide where the magus teleports strikes and teleports back to the original position or opens a small portal to allow a weapon strike at Close range

What other tricks can you see?


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I understand, the scenario you're describing would be unbalanced. I'm looking for a balanced approach where I only have to trust my luck once rather than twice for a single effect.


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I dislike the double roll as well. For spells that require an attack roll, I think it can be a single roll from the Magus. For spells with a saving throw, the target still gets a saving throw (I'm not rolling that die, so I don't mind as much the 2 dice in this scenario).

The increased effect on a critical from the strike balances against the choice that I may miss entirely and waste the confusion spell, from Paul's example. If I hit and do well, it makes it a little harder for the wizard to resist.


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Re: Spellstrike, I will say that I dislike the two rolls as currently laid out. I loved the change to critical effects in 2E that made it a single roll, I don't need to roll again to confirm. The fact that the spell is being channeled through the weapon makes the second roll seem unnecessary.

I like the improved effect on a crit, it makes Saving Throw spells feel like they are getting something out of the need to attack instead of the spell automatically hitting. Some of the restrictions with the Spellstrike mean that it may not always be the optimal choice--if I need to hit two targets it might be better to cast Electric Arc on its own rather than channel through the sword.

2E has a mechanic through Arcane Archer that Spellstrike can draw from. I do think that since Spellstrike is a core function of the base class, it should be a little better. Simply removing the second attack roll would fix that in my mind.

I like the synthesis. Yes, some may be more optimized than others, but they each provide a unique feeling and approach. Given the dramatic change in spell slots, some clarification should be added in a sidebar about how the loss of low level slots interacts with various magic items that are based on slots. This is because many players use the books and don't scour internet forums and Twitch feeds for clarification, so having it in the book will streamline the experience.


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I'm not sure if it's been offered up before. What if Spellstrike allows you to use your weapon strike in place of the spell attack roll for Cantrips, keep the crit effect for Saving Throw spells. You could also cast spells without the sword to hit 2 targets with Electric Arc for example, but you aren't as good at it since your sword isn't involved.

Then you can do the hit with a sword and spell all day long. You can cast big boom spells from your slots or use them for buff spells. Take the feat to get some extra buff spells/slots.

Maybe have the modified Spellstrike work with a single weapon by default, then allow feats to add a different class of weapon.


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How does the effect of increasing the level of success for the Spell Attack when a Strike crits change the dynamic? Same with lowering the success of a save against the spell for spells with no attack roll separate from the Strike?

Significant change? Minor?


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I will be interested to see how getting a critical on the Strike improves the effect of the Spell Attack roll and how that balances against having a lower Spell proficiency level. It sounds cool, but without playing it out across multiple encounters how does it compare.

What impact will Capture Spell play into a magus' rotation?


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The fact that Karzoug's agents captured him suggests that Malfeshnekor was not one of Alaznist's more powerful lieutenants.

You can have the binding spell weaken over the last millenia so that once the door is opened, Malfesnekor is free to exit the room. If he has a bit more mobility and the party can't just stand back and pepper him with ranged attacks, then he will pose more of a threat.

That in combination with the threat increase suggested by Askar should make him more of a threat, but if the party is fully rested against a single mob, it won't be a long fight


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If it's the feat that I think you're talking about, the access is listed in the pre-requisite Dedication feat. The bonus damage feat comes as the next choice. Given some of the other restrictions on types of attacks made with the feat, I don't believe it is one that every martial will immediately queue up for.

Spoiler:
The AP offers an NPC with the necessary background to teach the PCs if they ally with him. That can serve as plenty of plot hooks for side quests and RP potential.


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You can also give the Eye of Avarice an effect like Forbiddance, which Karzoug and a few of his most trusted are immune to.

A disjunction pulse trap which triggers as soon as they arrive on the platform will strip away buff spells and possibly render magic items inert.

Have derghodaemons bound into the floor of the platform that they arrive on, which would expose the heroes to the aura of the daemons.

All of these tactics are designed to weaken other arcane spellcasters who Karzoug and the Runelords would likely rate as the highest threat to their existence, seeing as how they waged war against one another.

If you want to target tactics that Karzoug has seen the heroes use against his own lackeys, he could prepare his defenses like Spell Immunity (Dimensional Anchor). Use Repulsion to prevent closing to melee. Give the dragon a greater gauntlet of rust or adamantine claws and Improved Sunder. Any heroes that can't fly get bull rushed off platforms and into the lava below.


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Double Shot - two attacks against different targets, both at -2

Triple Shot - You can now A.) attack same target with Double Shot and B.) make 2 shots at -2/-2 or 3 shots at -4/-4/-4.

At least that's how I read it.

-----

The exacting strike could be 0/-5/-5 or 0/-5/-10 depending on if you hit with your second attack.

Is it worth the investment, balancing opportunity costs etc, is difficult to say because I've never found a game that plays the same as the white room simulation. Some days I never roll higher than a 7, and I have to start adjusting my choices to stack positive multipliers because I know my dice will fail me. Other days the dice are hot and only roll 10+ and I can be a little more risk taking. And some days the dice are normal, highs/lows and everything in between.

Is your character the type who wants to put the single perfect attack down range or fill the air with so many arrows that you get to fight in the shade? Neither choice is right or wrong, they're just different approaches.


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With items not having specific slots, you can also talk with your GM about changing the appearance. An unobtrusive monastic order may have Clandestine Robes instead of a Clandestine Cloak. The magic functions identically, same cost etc.


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Kainite101 wrote:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yAwKGOJN7T5E0M1v852YKEnyY2J09Pk-/view

Thanks for the link!


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Something like that, yes. I'd prefer to have a text based PDF, without the background that is going to chew through ink for my players who want to print it out.

Does an official version not exist outside of the demo adventures?


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1E had a quick reference guide for new players available in the Downloads section of the Paizo store. I haven't been able to find anything official like it. Tormented Heroes in Roll 20 and the Demo adventure have them.

Is there a place I can point players too or is it best to just extract the reference from the Demo PDF and use that?


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Leng is inherently linked to the Great Old Ones and the Outer Gods. This could lead to other forces sensing the Leng device activating and reaching out across time and space.

Similarly, defeating inevitables and agents of Pharasma who are trying to maintain this reality against the outer forces.

It could be that as they do battle, they become locked away in time and you tie them back in when you do the Return campaign.


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An argument that I can see being made against the PCs is that when they committed the crime, they had no proof against Ironbriar. That evidence is all found in the encrypted journal, which can take 2d4 days to decipher. How do they justify their actions if the journal is blocked from evidence? Here is where you get the PCs to think and put the story together

Spoiler:
The Seven gave the money to Vorel Foxglove, and exacted further payment from Aldern, leading to him becoming the Skinsaw man. So really, the Seven were a party to the murders that the Skinsaw man and his ghouls committed. The Heroes of Sandpoint were trying to bring the Seven to justice, when they discovered that it was actually a cult of Norgorber. Never one to believe that Justice Ironbriar could be part of it, and having faced shapeshifters earlier in the Townhouse, they gave fight to end the evil cult... etc. I'd question if any of the PCs are wearing the Sihedron medallion, using the Ring of Force Shield, etc that has them bearing the same star that has been carved into people. See what connections are made...

The other question is were they deputized by the sheriff and can they leverage that here.

Re: Animate Dead, it is a technique that I've seen inexperienced players use, thinking that it will dispose of the body. No body, no murder. I'm surprised that they had it prepared with the Onyx stones, but that's what players do--surprise GMs.

Use of necromancy to dispose of the body proves guilty intent and a desire to destroy evidence. It may increase the DCs to prove their innocence. They may request truth-finding magic be employed to balance the odds back to even.

The mayor can certainly pardon the PCs when he gets word of the plot to murder him. As mentioned above, sending them on a mission to look into the events of the next book also serves as a penance to the city, gets them hundreds of miles away so their violent tendencies can be spent against non-Magnimarans, and allows the mayor to appear magnanimous.


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The other thing I've noticed is that AC is good, but tactics are better. Knowing when to skirmish versus standing in the center to slug it out. There is some risk reward--I think we can finish the baddie this round if we all hit hard, if we don't this will hurt.

Having the higher AC, lowers the risk if your party favors the "stand there and take it" approach. The action economy becomes harder to balance for certain characters if you favor a running battle of small skirmishes.


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Silent Spell allows you to cast a spell silently or when sound doesn't carry, as long as the spell has Verbal and at least one other component.

How does a Wizard cast Shield or other Verbal only spells in this situation?


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I'd recommend that you try clicking the "Refresh Downloads" button at the top of the Digital Content page. After that, click on the file again to personalize. Wait a moment, then click again to have it be ready for download.


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I do wish they had used a different word for feats, to help differentiate between Ancestry, Class, and Skill. 1E had a similar problem with traits and Traits. It was feedback during the Playtest.


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MaxAstro wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
If Magus has a ranged option and a melee option, then the Eldritch archer is going to be for people who don't want the magus playstyle or want to be the primary class they chose with some flavor into the melding. Or perhaps magus will be built around melee only, but their spell selection and martial capability will meld right into the Eldritch Archer making it the go to class for accessing EA quickly.
On the other hand - personally I will be disappointed if Magus and Eldritch Archer don't have good synergy. This seems like a very obvious combo.

Completely fair. There are a lot of game design choices that can be made. I was just trying to lay out a few options. If they synergize well, that would be good. My desire would be that there are plenty of options so that the choice to go down one path instead of another is equally advantageous, but in different ways. If there is a path that is clearly better in all circumstances, then the design has failed.


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Based on 1E, the hybrid prestige classes (different I know) had a later entry. BAB of +5 and the ability to cast arcane spells, Ability to cast 3rd level spells and proficiency in martial weapons, etc. These all started at 6th level entry. I look at proficiency gating to be the same type of design choice as a BAB requirement or number of Skill Ranks. It is a game design choice to delay the introduction of certain skills and abilities.

If Magus has a ranged option and a melee option, then the Eldritch archer is going to be for people who don't want the magus playstyle or want to be the primary class they chose with some flavor into the melding. Or perhaps magus will be built around melee only, but their spell selection and martial capability will meld right into the Eldritch Archer making it the go to class for accessing EA quickly.


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Some characters have a deep and abiding faith, others don't. Some clerics proselytize, others don't.

One thing I like about clerics is the breadth of options, so that even two clerics of the same faith may embrace different aspects of their deity and have distinctly different vibes from each other.


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Materially, the spell has little changed. It's expensive and it takes time to prepare in advance.

Making it a ritual instead of a spell opens the narrative space quite a bit, especially since Paizo has shown that you can have an 18th level baker who makes nearly divine cupcakes, but still can't fight even a 1st level character.

Yes, it takes multiple people to cast it. That would be your party members, henchmen, hirelings, etc. If you are worried about someone learning your secrets, there is the time-tested method of burying them in the tomb with you.

Personally, I find the rarity system to be a flag to a GM to consider the impact this will have on the story being told between the GM and players. Will it impact the story positively, throw it in. Will it detract, hold off for awhile. Just remember that it's a joint story being told from both sides, so if your character has overarching goals that will require something with a rarity tag talk with the GM to be sure that will fit.


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Yeah, based on the spell level of the prepared spell that you are swapping with the Summon, or did I misread something?


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It calls out "Choose one summon spell (such as summon animal, summon construct, and so forth) that appears on the spell list of your spellcasting tradition."

It does grant you all levels of that spell based on what you swap out, but only the one type.


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To look at this another way, run and jump over several knocked down motorcycles, to land standing on the roof of a sedan. From an elevated jump point that sounds a lot more reasonable than from the ground.


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That type of scenario in real life, I'd be looking for ropes and places to secure them. Reverse the scenario where they start on the high ground and have to jump across and down, it's a one-way jump but more feasible.

As a character, Powerful Leap lets you clear the 5 foot height with the distance, or a crtical success on the Athletics check would meet your criteria.


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Anticipated lifespan and developmental length both feed into sociocultural norms. This can be seen throughout fiction in a positive and negative light, from Tolkien to transhumanism. The famed craftsmanship of the elves and dwarves likely has less to do with the races being inherently better at it and more to do with a 50-100 year apprenticeship that would be impractical for humans in a classic fantasy setting.

For monks, I'd be curious to see how people feel -- should you stay agelessly young or continue to look older but maintain your youthful vigor? Both are seen in literature, comics, and movies.

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