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Note: I found it in the File by Chapter download, but not in the all in one which is what I generally use.

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Morning all --

Usually when I download the adventure from the store, it has the AP module and an Interactive Maps file. Part 3 is missing the maps for me. Anyone else have this problem?


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Each time I download something from the store, I have to click on the product three times to get it. (Personalize, then update, then download) Is there a way to streamline this that I am missing, a setting to turn on, etc? I'd love to be able to click once, have the file get automatically watermarked and then begin downloading. I don't mind the delay, but when I get a new shipment and have to click multiple times on each product, the interface feels clunky.


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The bladed diabolo looks like a vicious yo-yo.

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graystone wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:
This means that as soon as the heroes defeat someone using these strange weapons, or the DM says they can be bought, then the characters are good to go based on their proficiency level, no additional training is needed.

I'm more thinking of it from the players perspective instead of the DM: what can the player to to qualify for the items? Instead of waiting for random happenstance to drop one in his lap, can he do anything to gain access past begging the Dm for it?

HammerJack wrote:
These weapons are also introduced in an AP where the PCs are in a circus. I would expect it to be fairly common to allow thesee weapons to be treated as available based on that alone, for groups playing Extinction Curse.

This makes it even ODDER to not mention how you gain access if it would be "fairly common" in that setting instead of betting on 'common sense' to allow it. :P

PossibleCabbage wrote:
I feel like much like "you can find a dwarf weapon if you are in a dwarf community, or you come from one" then you can find a circus weapon if you are in a circus, or you came from one.
What surprises me is that there isn't the same kind of thing for them, in the AP or the player's guide....

Fair enough. I'll admit, the first thing I did was look at the Backgrounds in the Player's Guide to see if one of them offered access or there was a blanket statement that the circus backgrounds opened up Circus Weapons, but didn't see it.

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My understanding is that an Uncommon weapon can't be purchased at start or without DM approval. The proficiency to use it doesn't change. This means that as soon as the heroes defeat someone using these strange weapons, or the DM says they can be bought, then the characters are good to go based on their proficiency level, no additional training is needed.

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As a GM, I'd allow it but give a free Grab an Edge check immediately at the top of the battlement. Success means they catch themselves before going over and no fall damage. I could also see ruling that depending on size, the battlement requires a Critical Success to shove someone over, Success simply shoves them back from you and they stop against the edge of the battlements. The difference between the options would depend on construction, size etc. Humans fighting on the battlements designed for giants are going to be harder to throw over the wall. Goblin construction, easier to throw over.

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An alternative to the Touch attack mechanic, would be to give a class ability feat that allows minimal damage on a miss. At X level, on a failed attack roll, the damage is treated as if all 1s on the dice roll. This does not apply on a critical failure.

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I don't believe they are mutually exclusive.

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The Eldritch blast needs some tuning. Currently, it's a 1-action cantrip with no MAP and doesn't align with the flow of spells in 2E. If you want it to remain a 1 action, I would suggest that you add [Attack] . This will also help it line up with some of the abilities like Dual Blast that you've included.

In your focus spells, the number of Actions to cast the spell is equal to the number of components. A spell with Verbal and Somatic components, should take 2 actions to cast. All but one of your spells are 1 action and 2 components.

For Celestial Patrons, is it your plan that the Eldritch blast can heal creatures/harm undead only? Vice versa for the Fiend? This may tread on the toes of healers quite a bit. Some abilities that grant Positive/Negative energy attacks specifically state that they do not heal.

For Force damage, I'd probably scale the dice down to d4s given the absence of resistance and ability to effect incorporeal etc.

Pact of the Tome allows a character to learn cantrips equal to their Charisma modifier. Pact Mastery then says up to 5 cantrips. Is this meant to be a hard cap or in addition to the ones that were already learned? Legendary Pact makes it clearer that the spells are in addition to ones already in the tome. Also if the Warlock's charisma modifier increases, do they gain additional cantrips? If it's >5, does the hard cap limit that?

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The majority of the improvements for Monks say "unarmed attacks" which the seedpod would qualify for. Powerful Fist however specifically calls out fists for the increase from 1d4 to 1d6.

Personally, I wish this was written as Powerful Blows, that increase Unarmed attack damage from 1d4 to 1d6.

Would people allow it for seedpods? Has there been a FAQ/errata that I missed?

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Temperans wrote:

If I understood what you meant right, Specialist getting 1 school while universalist get 1 school + 1 every 4 levels (total of 5) would completely break the system. What makes a specialist Wizard so important is getting to do things others cant, to have the Universalist get free reign on more than 1 would be the complete opposite of what the School System implies; The universalist would be better than the specialist.

Losing the focus and 2 action spells spells might be counter to the goal as the entire reason was for wizards to interact more with the 3 action system. That include choosing wether to cast the 2 action Verizon or wether the 1 action + focus spell might be better.

I'm throwing ideas out to see what works. My level of system mastery with PF2 is much lower than other systems so random ideas might be completely backwards.

So, to borrow from above:

The specialist can do it for any spell from their school. universalist can do it for any school (Int) times per day? Or the Specialist can apply it to all spell levels from their school, the Universalist can apply it to any of their cantrips but not higher level spells?

Maybe for sorcerers it's on any of their Bloodline spells or Signature Spells (Cha) times per day?

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As a Class Feat, I would have it only apply to one school. I don't know if if would be a must-have for all builds to say that you can use one school faster. Evokers and Eldritch Knights would probably want it, but your Illusionists and Conjurers would have other things they want.

It could be added so every Specialist can do this for their school and Universalists get 1 school at 1st level, then 1 additional school at 4th and every 4 levels after. That change would buff the class because it's a new ability for all rather than a choice to make.


A different way of looking at this would be to create it as an archetype. The Wizard doesn't get the benefits of an Arcane School or Universalist, and instead gets this in whatever form it takes at the end.

Or would you be willing to trade faster spells for your Focus pool? I don't know the long reaching impact of that choice, but could see it working conceptually to tell the story of the precocious apprentice who was always looking for the shortcut. Quick power grab at the cost of study and focus, maybe unable to use the normal 2-action version of spells.

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What if the ability to create 1-action versions was an Arcane Thesis?

Rapid Thaumaturgy
You've learned the fundamental words of magic which allow you to cast your spells without gestures, however they have a smaller effect.

  • -Cones are reduced to lines of the same range
  • -Target spell rangess are reduced by half if they are greater than 30ft, or reduced to touch if they are 30ft
  • -Burst spells halve their radius, if the radius is 5ft, it becomes a target square

Spells cast using this ability have the Flourish trait. At 1st level, this applies to your specialty school. Universalist wizards can choose one school of magic to apply this to. Every odd level, you add an additional school of magic which this can be applied to.

Midnightoker - would that address the concern of applying limits? The character could choose to do it faster with a flourish, or follow the normal rules.

I don't know if the staggered progression of schools is necessary or not, but it would allow for choices.

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Midnightoker wrote:
Low action cost spells effectively means more spells in a single round, and given the biggest limitation on the power of spells is their action cost, reductions of that directly correlate to power.

I had included a provision that spells other than those able to be used as Reactions could only be cast once per round. Maybe I hadn't been clear on that.

The list of reductions in Area of Effect is very similar to my thinking.

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As people are stating that the suggestions put forth are making casters more powerful, can someone explain how my suggestion is ending up with them being more powerful?

When producing the plan for lower action cost spells, I was decreasing certain values of spells to provide a choice--baseline power level at 2 actions, or allow a slightly weaker version for 1 action. I don't see where the power creep comes in, but others may have a different viewpoint based on their experiences playing the game.

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Gorbacz - I'm having trouble seeing what value you are bringing to this conversation. There has been a lot of apparent sarcasm and rhetorical questions, but nothing to directly address the post.

Cyrad - The investigator in its current form is very reliant on the GM and the type of campaign. In reviewing the class prior to playing, I thought about Rise of the Runelords which is a fairly straightforward story. The investigations in the 2nd book and mystery would be ideal for a campaign with the investigator, but most of the campaign isn't mystery driven unless the GM changes things around. Other APs have bit more mystery and intrigue to them, others have a lot less.

While I agree that the Recall Information rules can be vague, that is something that as a player I would ask about before making a character that uses them a lot. The Investigator can also get abilities like Known Weaknesses, which make the Recall Knowledge check a free add-on to another check which is more clearly defined. When I frame it that way, the abilities which effect Recall Knowledge feel nice because they're free, assuming the opportunity cost was negligible.

Keen Recollection lets me add my level to Recall Knowledge checks that I otherwise wouldn't have any bonus to, neat.

Thorough Research is vague, but when it's compared against Accurate Study and Ongoing Investigation, it doesn't feel as bad. If the rest of the team can't move at full Speed during their Exploration activities, then Ongoing Investigation doesn't help me. Accurate Study depends on the type of Investigator that I'm playing a +2 on my next attack might be better than a +1 on multiple attacks, presuming I tend to make single attacks but if my character tends to make multiple attacks or has reactions that trigger strikes, then the single boost isn't worth it.

Maybe that means that we should re-evaluate all of the 6th level feats because none of them really called to me. At least, they're all balanced against each other though.

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The change wouldn't work for every spell, but it could provide versatility if implemented on a reasonable number of them. This also makes the player have to choose, do I burn the slot on a single action slightly less powerful version to get some mobility, or do I move now and get to a spot where I can spend two actions on the beefier version next round.

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Midnightoker wrote:
BishopMcQ wrote:

To make it a bit more fun for me and provide choices:


I think this is the route that ultimately allows them to buff Casters and make them more fun at the same time.

I will say that it does devalue Metamagic Feats a tad by extension if they did it to every spell though.

I agree, every spell may be too much. But if 1/4 to 1/3 of the spells available did this, it would provide options. Some times I want to throw out a buff on the party, 2 actions. If I want to blast and dash or take the chance to debuff and run, I have a 1 action option that isn't quite as good as my 2 action choice but adds mobility.

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To make it a bit more fun for me and provide choices:

Burning Hands

1 action (Verbal) flames erupt from your hand in a 15 foot line
2 action (Verbal, Somatic) You bolster the flames, widening them into a 15 foot cone from your hands

I can choose between hitting 3 squares or 6/7 squares based on the layout of the board.

1 action Range is Touch
2 action Range is 30'

This also builds on the metamagic feats and shows a natural progression for taking Widen Spell to make evocations a little better or reversing the effect of Reach Spell by shortening down from 30'to Touch and taking an action off. Evaluating spells with 2 actions as their base, and making a 1 action version that has the same effect on a smaller range, less area, or in some cases a shortened duration provides flexibility to the Wizard without making them more powerful.

Sure, you could say that if I only have 1 enemy then it's more powerful to spend 1 action on a Burning Hands instead of 2, but that's putting the wizard within a single Stride for most creatures. Then the wizard can Stride up, Blast, Stride away, similar to other characters.

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Harm/Heal are great examples of what spells could be. They have variable abilities based on how many actions I put into casting them and provide options for me to interact with the action economy. If more spells had the options of 1-3 actions, it would improve the system.

Having a basic rule that a caster cannot cast more than one spell per round, would curb the concern that they're going to chain cast a bunch of cantrips. Maybe, add a carve out for spells that are Reactions. This could be done pretty easily with the Traits. Just like a martial can't use multiple Finishers in a round, the caster can't cast multiple spells.

I haven't played a caster at high levels to see how everything interacts, but having the full use of 3 actions and what am I going to do with each one would provide more player agency which is usually a good thing.

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I've been posting on these forums infrequently for several years. I lurk on the forums, reading threads, quite a bit more. Overall, yes, I think the tone has changed. Though in my perception, the tone of global society and communication has changed. There is more dividing people than bringing them together.

It's a growing pain of the changes in how telecommunications worked. War suddenly looked a whole lot different when we had videocameras to project on the nightly news what the soldiers were facing, rather than fluff/propaganda pieces in theaters or on radios. Similarly, with the rise of BBSs and internet forums, some point many people realized that they had a sacred duty to uphold.

There will always be trainwrecks of threads, on this forum or a dozen others that I have been to over the years. Just remember, sometimes instead of upholding your sacred duty, maybe you should take a walk instead and have a refreshing drink, breathe, and realize that someone else will make your same point for you. If they don't, it's okay for people to be wrong on the internet sometimes.

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PossibleCabbage wrote:

Isn't there a general "if you do something suitably flashy, impressive, or daring with any skill, at the GM's discretion you gain panache" rule?

Like I don't know what the uses of nature or crafting that can be done with suitable flamboyance to count, but this is the sort of things where I'm happy to let my players figure it out.

Could the use of Craft to devise an impromptu see-saw using benches in a feast hall, then cut the rope supporting the chandelier. Chandelier comes down, providing launch for the Swashbuckler's heroic leap onto the second floor.

Swordfighting for sleight of hand would also be great: Classic Musketeers

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I've been talking about the different uses of Take the Case within a story. There seems to be a need for some foreshadowing throughout to have it make sense. Some encounters won't be linked to the case at all.

Using Book 1 of Rise of the Runelords as an example of the Cases:

The attack on Sandpoint presumably happens too fast to take 1 minute to open a case.

The goblin under the bed - A case is made, with the lone commando as the subject

The case of the missing bartender - A case is made for the glassworks, with Tsuto as the subject.

The case of the ancient ruins - A case is made for the catacombs of wrath, with the Quasit being the likely subject. The fight against the 3 armed goblin while interesting and fills in holes from the story Shalelu told them, doesn't interact with this case.

Thistletop is where it gets complicated. Is it "the case of the rogue goblin king" or "the case of spiteful daughter"? Does the Investigator need to separate the cases and prioritize the order--expecting to face off against the goblin tribe before finding Nualia. Nualia's henchmen while some check off stray details, others are just window dressing.

In the aftermath, the case of the fifty foot goblin becomes the case of the beast below. The shadows and giant crab have nothing to do with the case.

Can the investigator drop a case, start a new case, and then go back to the first case by taking 1 minute which each new case?

How does the investigator know that a subject is valid for the use of the Free Action of Study Suspect? If the investigator gets confused or falls for the red herring, doesn't the knowledge that it took an action instead of a free action tell the investigator something. Effectively, the investigator tries to put the pieces together and instead of everything clicking, is there "something not quite right" which distracts their mind taking the additional seconds between 1 Action and a Free Action?

Is that working as intended, that the character can rule a person out as the primary suspect based on how long it takes to Study them?

Edit: On a really extreme example, if a murder occurred, the investigator could have everyone from town come into a single room in Town Hall and 10 minutes later have spent an action to Study Suspect on everyone. The person it took a Free Action on is guilty, even if they don't have the rest of the details.

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The sigil cantrip states:
The mark can be scrubbed or scraped off with 5 minutes of work. If it’s on a creature, it fades naturally over the course of a week.

Does the scrubbed and scraped change when heightening? If the spell is heightened to 7th level, it never fades away from a creature. If it still only takes 5 minutes to scrub it off, what is the point of heightening? As a cantrip, the 1 square inch henna tattoo makes perfect sense. Tag something, the mark can be scrubbed off with purpose or it fades away. Spending higher level slots, I'd expect it to take more effort to scrub away.

On an object, does it need to be heightened to last forever? If I put an invisible mark on a coin, will it stay there until the coin gets to the eccentric banker who polishes every coin for 5 minutes to get a pristine shine?

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Leaving bows to the side for a moment, firing a crossbow from prone has different scenarios. A person laying prone on a hill firing a cross bow and then scooting over to another loaded crossbow is a very different scenario then someone who got their feet swept out from under them and is trying to get a shot off at the guy with a sword striding towards them. That can be dealt with using situational modifiers since in combat, the second scenario is likely more common and the rules are designed to cover the big areas. The niche case is for GMs to adjudicate in my opinion.

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The rule also states that a minor part of the item can be recovered for other uses. The vial of a potion can be recovered. Vials cost 5 cp. An arrow costs 1 cp, suggesting that it is a minor part of the comparative cost. Therefore the argument could be made that the base arrow of the magical arrow could be recovered and used as a plain arrow without any of its magical properties.

This would explain why the description of consumables is in the Magic items section, but not in the original Equipment section.

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logsig wrote:
Quickened Casting requires your next action to be a cantrip or spell (with certain level restrictions). However, Bespell Weapon is neither of these - it is a feat. Further, Bespell Weapon requires your previous action to be a non-cantrip spell, and Quickened Casting is not a spell, but a feat.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. Quickened Casting, cast a spell, Bespell Weapon.

So my turn would look like:
Free Action - Effortless Concentration to Sustain a Spell
Free Action - Quickened Casting
Single Action - Cast Fireball (reduced from 2 actions)
Free Action - Bespell Weapon (add 1d6 Fire to Weapon until End of Turn)
Single Action - Stride
Single Action - Strike

That feels like a lot of actions for a single turn.

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My understanding is that Free Actions don't take any particular action to use and that they can be triggered by other actions without using your Reaction.

Could a Sorcerer/Wizard therefore use Effortless Concentration to Sustain a spell (trigger: Your turn begins), then use Quickened Casting (no trigger) to reduce a spell action cost, then use Bespell Weapon (trigger: your most recent action was to cast a non-cantrip) and enhance a weapon, then use the extra action saved to Strike with the newly enhanced weapon?

Is there a limit on the number of Free actions per turn that I missed?

Does using Free Action count as having acted? Can I use Effortless Concentration and Drain Bonded Item?

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Yes, but I was playing a cleric of Kelemvor. Every character who traveled with her for an extended time, she would talk with them about the cycles of life and death, ask them their wishes, talk about funeral arrangements and celebrations of life. She provided service to a local city near where our campaign was running. She ended up building a stronghold surrounded by a consecrated graveyard. There the bones of heroes were interred beside the remains of farmers and merchants. She held a convocation twice a year to tell the tales of the dead who rest in the lands she watched over.

When her time to pass beyond the veil came, one of the priests who served in the temple interred her as well, and took over guardianship of the Tower of Bones and the surrounding crypts.

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I've done it similar to Skill Challenges. Set a DC for different skills and areas. The PCs need a certain number of successes to clear an area (1-2 each) and they have X number of rounds to complete it before the bad guy escapes.

There can be different DCs based on the skill being used. Acrobatics to jump and dive around obstacles. Athletics to burst through. Intimidation to get a crowd to disperse.

If I want it to be more dynamic, on the bad guy's turn I roll his checks. Once the heroes have more successes than he does, they catch him. The dynamic option allows for the introduction of skill checks to apply situational modifiers like toppling a cart to slow down pursuers. The heroes can also use ranged effects to hinder the bad guy like casting Grease in the narrow alley in front of him.

A challenge with chases is that there has to be a reason why the heroes can't use ranged attacks. Why can't they shoot the runner with an arrow or magic missile?

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That quote seems to be from the Playtest document. In the actual core rulebook, that language is gone.

Here's how I would treat Level 0 and Level -1 creatures based on the core rule book

1st Level Party:
Level -1 is Party Level -2 for XP
Level 0 is Party Level -1 for XP

2nd Level Party:
Level -1 is Party Level -3 for XP
Level 0 is Party Level -2 for XP

3rd Level Party:
Level -1 is Party Level -4 for XP
Level 0 is Party Level -3 for XP

4th Level Party:
Level -1 has no XP value on the chart
Level 0 is Party Level -4 for XP

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How much sauce could a sorcerer source, if a sorcerer could source sauce?

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The size/complexity of the task depends on the scope. For me, I like the bookmarks and think that the TOC should be linked so that I when I scroll into it, I can touch a link and go directly to that chapter. It's a minor quality of life issue that doesn't take much time to implement with proper setup, and it means that on my tablet I don't have to shrink an already small page by having the bookmarks open. (I use the bookmarks more on a laptop or desktop.)

Adding hyperlinks for every "see page XX" is a much bigger project. Add to that, the writers sometimes say "see page XX" or "page XX has more information" and different variations of the same, which makes finding all of the different references harder. Since it gave me a page link, I can type that number and jump right there from my tablet or laptop.

Those looking at websites, the technology is different there and I've seen hyperlinks in the middle of sentences that were contextually inappropriate because of the way the backbone of the automatic hyperlinking works to find words that match page titles.

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No, just because it's not in the rules doesn't limit the possibility. But, when adding those pieces, I am interested in how it interacts with other systems. Will magical healing reverse the effect? What level of magical healing is required? Heal would definitely do it, but would Cure Light Wounds?

Natural healing (1 hp/lvl/day) means that a wizard would regain all of their HP usually within a week's time, faster with rest or a healer's care. The dichotomy of HP and wounds which take weeks or months to naturally heal breaks down. Asking "how do you adjudicate that" is different than "that's not codified in the rules so you can't do it".

For the armor - we have rules about how long it takes to put on Full Plate. If someone is unconscious, maybe it takes 2 people the same amount of time as 1 person assisting or twice as long if just a single person is doing it. If they're resisting against you, is it 2-3 times?

Dressing a toddler takes different amounts of time on if they want to do it themselves, you help them, or they fight against you while you dress them...

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Claxon wrote:
As players in first edition, my group would regularly go to the trouble of specifying that we gaged, bound, blindfolded, manacled, placed in full plate, and broke the hands of casters that we captured beyond stripping them of every possession they had. Sometimes we came up with inventive ways of doing just enough non-lethal damage to make sure that they we're constantly unconscious without a risk of dying.

While I don't think most prisons go to those lengths, it is quite common to strip people down and put them in a standard issue jumpsuit.

Also, I'd imagine there's some hyperbole there. Otherwise, I'd be curious what rules you used for breaking specific bones, how it related to the healing rules, and what it takes to put someone in armor either with them unconscious or resisting.

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If you build firearms as Advanced weapons, and then give Proficiency in just that group of advanced weapons to follow along the Fighter tiers. Maybe have other types of weapons advance on Rogue tiers?

It would make Gunslingers very good with guns and okay with other weapons. The feats could then be based off of Fighter/Ranger archery tricks but only apply to guns.

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I'm curious how groups handle treasure and incorporate the story aspects into the campaign. There are different perspectives as a GM and as a player. Every group likely has their own way of settling the distribution of loot, but when it comes to the actual story how do you interact with treasure either in generating the loot lists from a GM perspective and from prioritizing what to keep and sell from a player perspective?

As a GM, when I'm putting out permanent magic items, I tend to decide is the piece of loot linked to the story or just generic loot. In PF1, the ring of protection +1 that became ubiquitous at a certain level of play generally wasn't a story item. Though, the Signet Ring of Admiral Tyrannius, which was a ring of protection +1 and provided water breathing for 10 minutes per day, had a greater story impact than the GP value attached to it.

When adding in temporary items, I often weigh what the character that is carrying them would use and also implications for the future. One of the APs for example gives the party a wand of Quench. During the next chapter, low and behold, there's an army with bonfires that are just right to be put out. One time through the AP, the party kept the wand and used it. Another group ignored it's mundane fire uses and focused on the damage dealing capacity to fire elementals. That item had the ability to impact the story, other items like a potion of cure moderate wounds becomes something that just fills up bag space after awhile. As a GM, I am more forgiving with providing a bag of consumable items than a permanent item because I know the wealth will eventually balance back out, even if a few encounters are made easier for my party.

As a player, unless I have a specific purpose, I rarely make consumable magic items. I earned that gold and want to keep it around with me. I, however, love to find consumable magic items. Sometimes they are solutions looking for problems--I have a potion of fly and so now I'm looking for an opportunity where flying will make this easier. Other times, they live in bags and when the party is stumped in how to handle something, everyone checks their lists for a wheelbarrow and a holocaust cloak.

How does it work at your table?

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I would say that the options are:

1 - Stay with the current system. It's working for you, no one is going to be upset.

2 - Wait until more resources are available, then convert. I'd imagine that your PF1 game uses more resources than the Inner Sea World Guide and the Core Rulebook, which is where we effectively are at in PF2.

3 - House rule and bend so that you can maintain the flavor of your campaign, with the understanding that you might over/under adjust and need to finagle things around later.

A direct conversion of characters is going to be impossible, whether you do it now or later. Going from 3.5 to PF was simple, but converting from 2E D&D to 3.0 took a heavy lift. Kits and combinations for Dual-classing or multiclassing didn't fit into the 3.0 paradigm. We are at a similar point now.

Let us know how we can help.

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As the gem is embedded within the doll, I don't think it can be targeted separately for an attack roll.

After the heroes have defeated it and they realize that the gem is trapping the soul, they may want to free the soul through destroying the gem. This is where the hardness comes into play.

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I've also used Shroud as a Foil to the PCs, they're a group of BDH solving problems on a broad scale who come back to Sandpoint to rest. Shroud is a hero in his own mind solving problems on the city-scale. Sometimes it's window dressing, sometimes they work with Shroud to reveal a powerful individual or they have to delay Shroud's work until they can get what they need from an individual.

I think of Shroud as a vigilante Wound Collector--for the most part he falls on the good side but it wouldn't take much for the slippery slope to yield much more dangerous results. How that plays out depends on the campaign that's being run, the player's interactions in town, etc.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Where do they mention Archetypes for changing class features? Was that on one of the Twitch streams?

I've seen the Rackets, Research Fields etc that form the different Paths for a class. My hope is that the new archetypes/paths are not replacements for these but build on them. A Hospitaller Champion could be taken by any Champion. A Cat Burglar Rogue could be limited to the Thief Racket but either the Ruffian or Scoundrel should be able to become a Corsair.

For something like a Skulls and Shackles campaign where everyone should be a Pirate, it'd be nice if there were thematic Archetypes (published with APs in the Players Guide perhaps) where every character got access to the pool and the different feats could be bought by any of the characters as substitute Class Feats or Skill Feats. Maybe have the thematic feats work similar to the Dedications, without the restriction that you must pick 2 feats before starting a new Dedication?

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm curious how people think archetypes will go in the future, looking at the APG and beyond. Lost Omens World Guide gave a bunch of new Dedications, many following options that used to be Prestige Classes (Red Mantis) but others were archetypes (Sword lord). Arguably the Aldori Sword Lord was both an archetype and a PrC

In 1E, some archetypes changed the starting proficiencies, gave extra skills, etc. Should future archetypes change base features of classes or is that the realm of a Dedication?

If the APG offers alternative Fighters like the 1E APG did, should the new class feats be open to any Fighter or gated behind other feats? Example like allowing Fighters to reach Legendary with their maneuvers and Class DC but they lose Heavy Armor Proficiency.

What do people think about the design space available and where does the line belong for a class ability swap in archetypes like we know them from before and the new Dedication system?

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I've always liked classes where they invest an item and it grows with the character. I started adventuring with my grandfather's sword and through rituals and developing a bond with the weapon it becomes something greater. Blackblade Magus, Kensai, Leveling magic items back in 3.5, there is a lot of headspace to work with.

Regarding the list of existing ones -- some of the hybrid classes like mystic theurge can be done with the new Dedication feats. While I know those classes gave abilities that couldn't be matched with the given system, I'd be hesitant to get into a situation where players start to say "this archetype replaces that Devotion because it has this new AWESOME power."

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Draco18s wrote:

Ah, initiative was more like SR1:
This post:


- there is only one IP/turn (so IPs are effectively gone)

- You get Inititive dice + 1 Minor actions

Which unless I'm missing something means that a sam with three dice can act twice before a character with lower Initiative does anything. In other words, SR1. Firearms are a single skill, also like SR1. And the whole concept of soaking only with body while armor is compared to the weapon's Power Attack Rating IMO sounds a lot like the old damage scaling. So I'm waiting for them to reveal the Skill Web. biggrin.gif

Nice to see some of the veteran DSers are still kicking. Haven't been that way since early SR5.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The description says that it will have all the conditions with easy to read text. I don't see anything in the product description about goblins except the picture of the packaging.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

If I'm reading it correctly, you can't make Strikes in Mountain stance except with its special unarmed attack. Non-Strike attacks such as a Trip should still be possible, though the MAP would be brutal for a trip then flurry with falling stone attacks.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

My thinking was along the lines of Corvo, if I understand correctly.

At 1st level, they get a free Dedication feat for the chosen Gestalt class. (yes, this is earlier than normal) This class doesn't have the requirement that they take a certain number of archetype feats before selecting a new dedication.

Starting at level 4 and every 2 levels after that, players can select a free archetype feat from their gestalt dedication.

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Barnabas Eckleworth III wrote:

I'm thinking.... this discussion is going to get shut down real quick this morning. Posts will be deleted, and reminder posted to stay on topic.

Just a guess, tho.

I think we can do without the baiting and snide commentary. Yes, there were issues earlier in thread, but the conversation has moved past it and back on point.

Odraude wrote:
I would love to see something like Ultimate Campaign, which was my favorite hardcover. Instead of focusing on new classes or feats or general game bloat, I'd love to see rules that expand what can be down in the game. Kingdom Building, rules for research, material usage of magical beasts... I would love to see Ultimate Campaign with some new stuff.

I agree. With the new phases in Exploration and Downtime being a larger part of the game, it would be great to expand those areas.

Another aspect that I'd like to see come back in Ultimate Campaign would be Story Feats.

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